Where did i say they should accept? I said why ONLY blaming him?
If one guy is holding out against the majority, it's him causing the hold up no?
Posted 05 December 2014 - 14:28
Where did i say they should accept? I said why ONLY blaming him?
If one guy is holding out against the majority, it's him causing the hold up no?
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Posted 05 December 2014 - 14:30
Funny that you're saying i'm making stuff for not posting a link. You're yet to post a link where he said he hasn't make his mind.
Here you go:
http://www1.skysport...ected-this-week
Your turn.
Posted 05 December 2014 - 14:31
I don't understand why people are only blaming Ron Dennis for the non decision? Ron Dennis isn't undecided, it's the others who don't accept his choice and request him to have the majority of the share if he's to make that choice. If the others agreed with Ron Dennis choice, all of this would have ended while ago.
Thing is, British Media don't like Ron Dennis' choice so he's the Devil. I bet if his choice was Jenson Button and the others Kevin Magnussen, people wouldn't blame him.
As the papers say, it does show that Ron doesn't have authority anymore at McLaren, after he kicked out Whitmarsh to re-assert himself. Ronzer has been shown to be weak, and this will reduce his hand in the future
Posted 05 December 2014 - 14:34
from your own link :
“But I understand that at this board meeting today, the significant board members genuinely could not decide on what their best line-up is. It was the big beasts in there today – Ron Dennis, Mansour Ojjeh and Sheikh Mohammed bin Essa Al Khalifa – and between the three of them they could not come to a definitive conclusion.
Where does it say Ron Dennis hasn't make up HIS mind?
Posted 05 December 2014 - 14:36
Also, on the British GP quote - isn't there going to be a British WDC with a No.1 on his car next year?
Or does that not count seeing as its not Jenson Button?
There is but not eveyone in the UK is a Hamilton fan and by the same turn not everyone is a Button fan. Appealing to two sets of fans is going to cover your bases much more.
Personally, I like them both but I can understand why others may not like one or the other.
I'm sure not everyone in Germany is a fan of Vettel and Rosberg and Hulkenburg either.
Posted 05 December 2014 - 14:39
from your own link :
Where does it say Ron Dennis hasn't make up HIS mind?
Where does it say what his preference is?
This is really not hard.
Posted 05 December 2014 - 14:40
If one guy is holding out against the majority, it's him causing the hold up no?
Normally, it's HIS call to chose the driver line up. It's now that they are questioning HIS choice. As far as I understand.
Posted 05 December 2014 - 14:45
Where does it say what his preference is?
This is really not hard.
Where does it say what his preference is?
This is really not hard.
Where did i say he confirmed or said his choice is Magnussen? It seems hard for you to understand what i'm saying.
The press seems to suggest that his preference is Magnussen that's why I said if it turn out to be Jenson Button, he'll suddenly become the good guy.
Posted 05 December 2014 - 14:45
Posted 05 December 2014 - 14:48
The more I hear and see of Kevin, the more I like him on a personal level; he just seems like a really nice guy:
Magnussen said on Twitter: "Really good to spend some time with JB. He is an awesome guy and no matter what happens next year, I'm cheering for him."
(source, source)
Posted 05 December 2014 - 14:49
Where did i say he confirmed or said his choice is Magnussen? It seems hard for you to understand what i'm saying.
The press seems to suggest that his preference is Magnussen that's why I said if it turn out to be Jenson Button, he'll suddenly become the good guy.
No, you stuck that in afterwards.
'Ron Dennis isn't undecided.'
Okay then. Since you're apparently in possession of facts of which I am unaware...
What's his position?
Posted 05 December 2014 - 14:52
LOL@the fake Alonso twitter acount quip:
"@KevinMagnussen that means you are my teammate then. Hope our car is faster than our decisions." (source)
Posted 05 December 2014 - 14:53
No, you stuck that in afterwards.
'Ron Dennis isn't undecided.'
Okay then. Since you're apparently in possession of facts of which I am unaware...
What's his position?
And I maintain what I said. Reports say they can't agree. Disagreement doesn't mean each party hasn't a choice. People talk like Ron Dennis can't make a choice, my point is THEY can't agree on a choice, it's not ONLY one man fault. You understand now?
Posted 05 December 2014 - 14:54
LOL@the fake Alonso twitter acount quip:
"@KevinMagnussen that means you are my teammate then. Hope our car is faster than our decisions." (source)
Rhinehart Somebody fell for that yesterday.
Posted 05 December 2014 - 14:56
No, you stuck that in afterwards.
'Ron Dennis isn't undecided.'
Okay then. Since you're apparently in possession of facts of which I am unaware...
What's his position?
Maybe he meant that both sides know who they want and Ron has his preference already. The media seems to be speculating that Ron's choice is Magnussen.
I think what F1newbie is suggesting is no one knows what Rons choice and it could very well be button.
The indecision is from McLaren as a whole (Ron, Manssour and the Bahrani guys) not agreeing with each others prefrences
Personally though I do think Ron might be rooting for Magnussen (if was was forced to place a bet thats where my money will be)
Edited by Newbrray, 05 December 2014 - 14:57.
Posted 05 December 2014 - 14:57
And I maintain what I said. Reports say they can't agree. Disagreement doesn't mean each party hasn't a choice. People talk like Ron Dennis can't make a choice, my point is THEY can't agree on a choice, it's not ONLY one man fault. You understand now?
Just to be clear then:
Ron Dennis isn't undecided, it's the others who don't accept his choice and request him to have the majority of the share if he's to make that choice. If the others agreed with Ron Dennis choice, all of this would have ended while ago.
Thing is, British Media don't like Ron Dennis' choice so he's the Devil. I bet if his choice was Jenson Button and the others Kevin Magnussen, people wouldn't blame him.
You've changed your mind on this?
Posted 05 December 2014 - 14:59
I think what F1newbie is suggesting is no one knows what Rons choice and it could very well be button.
That's what he's claiming now.
Unfortunately
Thing is, British Media don't like Ron Dennis' choice so he's the Devil. I bet if his choice was Jenson Button and the others Kevin Magnussen, people wouldn't blame him.
says that's bollocks.
Posted 05 December 2014 - 15:00
Mclaren behaving very incompetent! surely they would have decided by now. very unfair to Jenson he would spoken to other teams earlier
Posted 05 December 2014 - 15:03
That's what he's claiming now.
Unfortunately
says that's bollocks.
Again, it's the British press that suggested his choice is Magnussen, what I said is based on what the press said, not that I know or claimed he said his choice is Magunssen. Jesus!
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Posted 05 December 2014 - 15:04
That's what he's claiming now.
Unfortunately
says that's bollocks.
okay got it now.
Didn't notice the previous post
Posted 05 December 2014 - 15:05
okay got it now.
Didn't notice the previous post
I'm not surprised. Probably distracted by all the backpedalling.
Edited by trogggy, 05 December 2014 - 15:06.
Posted 05 December 2014 - 15:05
Mclaren behaving very incompetent! surely they would have decided by now. very unfair to Jenson he would spoken to other teams earlier
Tbf he should have done that anyway. I agree that the way McLaren have kept both drivers guessing hasn't been very nice, wouldn't say it's incompetent though.
Edited by bub, 05 December 2014 - 15:07.
Posted 05 December 2014 - 15:12
Again, it's the British press that suggested his choice is Magnussen, what I said is based on what the press said, not that I know or claimed he said his choice is Magunssen. Jesus!
Tbf your earlier post did give the impression that Dennis had chosen Magnussen ("Ron Dennis isn't undecided" "British Media don't like Dennis' choice. I bet if his choice was Jenson Button...")
It's good that you have clarified what you meant now
Edited by bub, 05 December 2014 - 15:13.
Posted 05 December 2014 - 15:22
I'm not surprised. Probably distracted by all the backpedalling.
I'm backpedalling? You're the one who quoted Ron Dennis saying he hasn't make up his mind, you're yet to show me a link where he has said he hasn't make up his mind.
Show me where I quoted Ron Dennis telling the name of his choice?
Posted 05 December 2014 - 15:25
Tbf your earlier post did give the impression that Dennis had chosen Magnussen ("Ron Dennis isn't undecided" "British Media don't like Dennis' choice. I bet if his choice was Jenson Button...")
It's good that you have clarified what you meant now
Again, the press said they understand his choice is Magnussen. My quote was based on that. I'm not friend with Ron Dennis nor I claimed he made his choice public. How else could I know if it's not from what the press said?
Posted 05 December 2014 - 15:26
I'm backpedalling? You're the one who quoted Ron Dennis saying he hasn't make up his mind, you're yet to show me a link where he has said he hasn't make up his mind.
Here you go:
On that very page:
I've not made up my mind yet...
<waits for the next gem>
Posted 05 December 2014 - 15:27
The longer this drags on, Button (and Magnussen for that matter) might have to take matters into their own hands if they want to be racing something next year.
Button to WEC LMP1 has been suggested as a done deal if he's dropped by McLaren for some time now, but how long before there's no more room at the inn?
Porsche's full time seats are locked up, Audi have one definite vacancy but a pool of 3/4 contracted drivers with prototype experience to draw on, Toyota are probably in more of a state of flux with their drivers but you'd assume Conway is the head of the queue for any full time seat that does open up there. Nissan, well who knows but even if they've announced nobody as of right now, they'll surely be working on getting drivers signed up ahead of any announcement.
Obviously these things happen behind closed doors and for all I know deals could be being worked on as I'm typing this, but at what point would Button especially take a WEC factory drive today over a chance to maybe stay at McLaren to be confirmed at some undetermined point in the future?
Posted 05 December 2014 - 15:31
The longer this drags on, Button (and Magnussen for that matter) might have to take matters into their own hands if they want to be racing something next year.
Button to WEC LMP1 has been suggested as a done deal if he's dropped by McLaren for some time now, but how long before there's no more room at the inn?
Porsche's full time seats are locked up, Audi have one definite vacancy but a pool of 3/4 contracted drivers with prototype experience to draw on, Toyota are probably in more of a state of flux with their drivers but you'd assume Conway is the head of the queue for any full time seat that does open up there. Nissan, well who knows but even if they've announced nobody as of right now, they'll surely be working on getting drivers signed up ahead of any announcement.
Obviously these things happen behind closed doors and for all I know deals could be being worked on as I'm typing this, but at what point would Button especially take a WEC factory drive today over a chance to maybe stay at McLaren to be confirmed at some undetermined point in the future?
I'm guessing Magnussen will be contracted by McLaren for next year in some form regardless of the driver decision. But yes, it's hard to imagine a WEC team saying 'Take as long as you like, Jenson.'
Posted 05 December 2014 - 15:38
According to SkyF1 - McLaren made it clear to Buttons management at the British GP that a new deal wasn't a done deal - so really his management should have been talking to teams since then. From what I understand, Button elected to stay at McLaren or be out of F1 as Ferrari, Mercedes and Red Bull don't have seats available and he won't step down to a lower rated team.
So - really, the position he is in is entirely of his own making.
Posted 05 December 2014 - 15:41
On that very page:
<waits for the next gem>
I read it and he said it last week before the meeting. How does what he said last week before the meeting contradict what I said?
The press and fans single out Ron Dennis has the only responsible of yesterday non announcement.
And I'll repeat myself : Why the blame is only on Ron Dennis? the last report after the meeting suggest THEY haven't reached an agreement ( that doesn't apply he wasn't defending a choice during the meeting). Everyone seem to suggest (not that I said he said) his preference is Kevin that's why, in my opinion, they make him the only responsible for what happened.
Posted 05 December 2014 - 15:44
I read it and he said it last week before the meeting. How does what he said last week before the meeting contradict what I said?
The press and fans single out Ron Dennis has the only responsible of yesterday non announcement.
And I'll repeat myself : Why the blame is only on Ron Dennis? the last report after the meeting suggest THEY haven't reached an agreement ( that doesn't apply he wasn't defending a choice during the meeting). Everyone seem to suggest (not that I said he said) his preference is Kevin that's why, in my opinion, they make him the only responsible for what happened.
Yes, that's the quote I said was from Abu Dhabi, the one you seemingly couldn't find and now magically knew about all the time.
If in doubt, get a bigger spade.
Posted 05 December 2014 - 15:45
According to SkyF1 - McLaren made it clear to Buttons management at the British GP that a new deal wasn't a done deal - so really his management should have been talking to teams since then. From what I understand, Button elected to stay at McLaren or be out of F1 as Ferrari, Mercedes and Red Bull don't have seats available and he won't step down to a lower rated team.
So - really, the position he is in is entirely of his own making.
Oh another Gem. Its Button's fault. I wonder what's next.....
Posted 05 December 2014 - 15:45
According to SkyF1 - McLaren made it clear to Buttons management at the British GP that a new deal wasn't a done deal - so really his management should have been talking to teams since then. From what I understand, Button elected to stay at McLaren or be out of F1 as Ferrari, Mercedes and Red Bull don't have seats available and he won't step down to a lower rated team.
So - really, the position he is in is entirely of his own making.
Judging by the reports he seems less stressed about it than some on here.
Posted 05 December 2014 - 15:46
According to SkyF1 - McLaren made it clear to Buttons management at the British GP that a new deal wasn't a done deal - so really his management should have been talking to teams since then. From what I understand, Button elected to stay at McLaren or be out of F1 as Ferrari, Mercedes and Red Bull don't have seats available and he won't step down to a lower rated team.
So - really, the position he is in is entirely of his own making.
Since it was made public Honda will join force with Mclaren, there were rumors the Team was after either Alonso, Hamilton or Vettel to lead the new project. It's not like Jenson Button was out of the blue.
Posted 05 December 2014 - 15:48
He said, She said, nighty-night.
Posted 05 December 2014 - 15:49
Oh another Gem. Its Button's fault. I wonder what's next.....
I actually agree with that. He had the opportunity to negotiate with other teams, but chose to put all his eggs in the McLaren basket. So now as a result he's waiting on them. That doesn't mean it was the wrong decision on his part - even if he doesn't get the drive. Neither does it mean McLaren have an obligation to employ him. All the shilly-shallying does come across fairly badly, but remember we don't know what's going on behind the scenes.
Posted 05 December 2014 - 15:53
I think it's really just boiling down to deciding who really has the authority to make the decision. If Ron's position was solid I think he would have already made and announced his choice. I'd really like to know what Ron was required to accomplish in order to keep running the racing team, and the associated deadlines. From the outside it looks like Ron hasn't been able to accomplish much (no races wins, no title sponsor, no share buyout partners) that could have been clauses to solidify his position. He probably still has some time to get it done, but probably not much.
As for Jenson, he likely has a pre-contract signed (with Toyota, most likely) that says that if he is not racing in F1 then he will race in the WEC. He seems very comfortable to let it go whichever way, since I think he will be happy and motivated with either challenge, as he's said. The only question I have is whether there is a deadline on that pre-contract.
Posted 05 December 2014 - 15:54
Normally, it's HIS call to chose the driver line up. It's now that they are questioning HIS choice. As far as I understand.
So either he can't make up his mind or he has no real power anymore as far as I can see.
Posted 05 December 2014 - 16:02
Really, he has little real reason to be stressed. He has a WDC, multiple wins, has driven in one of the top teams and has a shed load of cash in the bank and a rock-star lifestyle.
As some have commented, he has likely already got a deal waiting outside of F1 - so really, there isn't a problem in many way for him. Not trying to have a drive lined up with another F1 team is entirely Buttons choice, so there is no one there to blame but himself. He wants to either be at McLaren - or not in F1 - this is why he is waiting on them and why he may likely leave F1.
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Posted 05 December 2014 - 16:09
Posted 05 December 2014 - 16:11
I'm guessing Magnussen will be contracted by McLaren for next year in some form regardless of the driver decision. But yes, it's hard to imagine a WEC team saying 'Take as long as you like, Jenson.'
Actually, I'd imagine they're chomping at the bit to get Jenson and will wait as long as necessary. He's a high profile F1 WDC who will almost certainly be a top WEC driver since his skill set suits the series so well. He'd also be a fantastic ambassador for sport cars, raising the profile of the series considerably. And he's young enough and performing at such a high level that it's not really a "retiring to a lesser series" kind of move. Yes, F1 is considered the pinnacle of racing, but without doubt it's a series on the decline while WEC is on the way up. Button can help to bridge that divide, and I suspect more top F1 drivers will be crossing over in the future. Button winning LeMans, for instance, would be a major news story.
Posted 05 December 2014 - 16:12
So either he can't make up his mind or he has no real power anymore as far as I can see.
According to reports, if he can find enough money to get more than 60% of the shares, he could be out in January.
Posted 05 December 2014 - 16:15
According to reports, if he can find enough money to get more than 60% of the shares, he could be out in January.
Does that mean the Driver announcement can be delayed till January ?
Posted 05 December 2014 - 16:18
According to reports, if he can find enough money to get more than 60% of the shares, he could be out in January.
Do you mean "if he can't"?
Posted 05 December 2014 - 16:19
Does that mean the Driver announcement can be delayed till January ?
It wouldn't surprise me. I think in Marca i read that Ron Dennis find himself in a position where he either buy more share or sell his and he has till mid January to do so, then he'll have full power to make his own decision.
Posted 05 December 2014 - 16:20
Do you mean "if he can't"?
Sorry, yes. I mean can't.
Posted 05 December 2014 - 16:26
Does that mean the Driver announcement can be delayed till January ?
Yes. It could.
Posted 05 December 2014 - 16:29
I was really hoping this could wrapped up in one thread, but here we are - over 4000 posts so a new thread is needed. McLaren, don't you have any consideration for internet janitors at all?
Anyway, new thread in a minute.