72 replies to this topic

[hittheapex]

A discussion on another thread about 1988 cast my mind back to that season, in particular the unforgettable Japanese Grand Prix.

 

Senna on pole, the championship within his grasp. The lights go to green and tens of millions of his fans hearts skip a beat as they see the familiar lurch that indicates a stall. Somehow, Senna fortuitously is not hit by any of his competitors and aided somewhat by the slope of the Suzuka main straight, manages to get the car going, but now 13 cars separate him and Prost. We are aware now of course that Senna went on to produce one of the great drives-and one of the great saves in catching the slide when he passed Prost, and the rest is history. If something like this happened today but the driver in place of Senna failed to recover and went on to lose the championship, a few choice words would be passed around on the forums I'm sure.

 

It had me thinking about other races in F1 where we see a driver go from hero to zero but back to hero again, recovering from a mistake and leaving memories of a great performance more than memories of a calamitous mistake.

 

The 2008 Monaco Grand Prix could be another. Hamilton putting it into the wall in the opening laps, fortuitously avoiding terminal damage to the suspension. Was helped by a safety car a few laps after his pit stop but still, recovered and opened up a comfortable gap to the field, before another safety car towards the end of the race closed them up again and he maintained the lead until the flag.

 

The 1995 Belgian Grand Prix-Schumacher starts 16th on account of flying off the road in qualifying and heavily damaging the car. Hakkinen and Alesi retire early to give him a little assistance but nevertheless he is up to 5th by lap 7 and goes on to win the race.

 

There must be some more out there that you remember or would like to nominate. Perhaps there are overlooked performances by the midfield and backmarkers who couldn't win the race even on a perfect day but secured valuable points for the team?

 

[George Costanza]

Michael Schumacher of 2001 in Sepang?

 

Barrichello and Schumacher at Monza 2004?

Edited by George Costanza, 15 October 2014 - 03:02.

[hittheapex]

Michael Schumacher of 2001 in Sepang?

 

Barrichello and Schumacher at Monza 2004?

Good calls! How could I forget both Ferraris sliding off in unison. And Verstappen vs Hakkinen in that race too...need to go back and watch it

[George Costanza]

Fernando Alonso...Valencia 2012?

Fernando Alonso Sepang 2012?

[George Costanza]

Senna 1991 Brazil?

[Afterburner]

Rosberg in the Russian GP this year is a good one. Megafied lock-up followed by 52 laps on a single set of tyres to finish second; full-course yellow before Hamilton's stop and he very well might've won.

Vettel at Brazil in 2012 also springs to mind. Smashed by Bruno Senna on the opening lap, drops waaay behind the field, then recovers to somehing like sixth within the next ten laps with a damaged car in the rain, all with the pressure of a WDC on the line.

Will Power at Fontana this year is another good one. Poor qualifying, horrid opening lap, and then chases his way all the way to the front at one point before falling back slightly in the end. Another clutch performance in a title decider, made easier when his rival dropped out a few laps after he took the lead.

And who can forget JB at Canada in 2011? Bashing into his teammate, penalties, and 6 pitstops all told and yet still victorious.

Pickett Racing did something like this at Lime Rock in... 2013? Had some kind of issue early on and then came back from 3 laps down to win. Talk about playing the long game.

And then there was that MotoGP race this year where Marquez duffed his start, dropped to the back, then came through the whole field and won--I try to remember which one, but he's won so many they kind of just blend together. I want to say it was Jerez, but for some reason that doesn't seem right.

Audi at Le Mans this year could also be a candidate, though everyone in that race hit some drama at some point.

I'm sure there are many more great examples which I've missed. There's a 24 Hours of Daytona example in there somewhere, but it eludes me at the moment.

[Wander]

Häkkinen at Spa in 2000. Handed lead to Schumacher after spinning on the wet track, but after the track dried, caught and passed Michael for the win with one of the most memorable overtakes in modern F1.


James Hunt at Fuji 1976 obviously.

[krapmeister]

Webber's first win?

[maverick69]

JV at Indy 1995. Came back from 2 laps down.

[DanardiF1]

JV at Indy 1995. Came back from 2 laps down.

 

Indy 505 Winner.

[Jackmancer]

For sure the 1957 German Grand Prix. 

 

Summary:
"At the Qualifying session, pole position went to Fangio, driving a Maseratti, he was joined on the front row by Ferrari drivers Hawthorn and Collins and teammate Behra. After the first few laps of the race, Collins and Hawthorn went into the lead, but Fangio bounced back and took the lead on the third lap.

But earlier, Fangio had settled on a strategy that in contrast to the Ferrari drivers, who were going to race on a full fuel tank and without a pit-stop, he decided to run on softer tyres and half fuel load to give him extra speed round the corners, but this also necessitated a pit stop during the race.

Having a lead of over 30 seconds over his nearest rival Collins, Fangio came to his pit-stop, which went horribly wrong, as the mechanic had lost the wheel nut of the rear left wheel, when Fangio finally joined the race, he was down in 3rd, 48 seconds behind Collins in 2nd place.

From this point, began his charge to catch the rivals, during which he broke the lap record a jaw dropping nine times to finally close in on Collins’ 2nd place albeit at the second last lap of the race. Finally, after a long chase, he passed his rivals Collins and Hawthorn to claim the victory and his fifth world title."

[DanardiF1]

Not quite within the course of one race, but Mike Hailwood made a winning comeback at the 1978 Isle of Man TT, 11 years after his last motorbike race and 4 years after suffering major injuries in the 1974 German Grand Prix.

 

Hero on a bike, not quite a zero in F1 but a frustrating part of his career, and then jumps back on his bike and is 'Mike the Bike' all over again...

[RedRabbit]

Two drives I'll never forget - Kimi Raikkonen, Suzuka 2005 and then again Singapore 2008. 2008 was more like Zero to Hero to Zero again. After THAT pitstop, Raikkonen joined the race only one position ahead of Massa and second last. Managed to get up to 4th near the end of the race before sticking it into the wall.

[hittheapex]

Two drives I'll never forget - Kimi Raikkonen, Suzuka 2005 and then again Singapore 2008. 2008 was more like Zero to Hero to Zero again. After THAT pitstop, Raikkonen joined the race only one position ahead of Massa and second last. Managed to get up to 4th near the end of the race before sticking it into the wall.

Singapore is a good shout, I had overlooked that as I was more engrossed in the title battle at the time. It's a shame he didn't get it to the end because that would have been one of his finest drives in my opinion. Suzuka 2005 had two of the best drives of all time in my opinion, in Raikkonen's and Alonso's races, though arguably it wasn't their fault they were so far down the grid to start with. Glad they were though

Edited by hittheapex, 15 October 2014 - 07:23.

[Collombin]

Big Al at the 1987 Indy 500 would be up there. A legend who didn't even have a ride initially, ending up winning the race for a record equalling 4th time.

2008 was more like Zero to Hero to Zero again

Whilst surely Graham Hill's remarkable 1960 British GP is an obvious candidate in this category.

[DainBramaged]

Maybe not a popular one, but Vettel Brazil 2012. Vettel hits someone (Senna I think), spins and ends up at the back. Alonso gets to the lead and will win the championship if Vettel doesn't make his way up the field to at least 5th (I think). He was lucky that damage didn't retire him, but still a good drive.

 

Button Canada 2011...well everyone knows what happened there. 

 

Barrichello Germany 2000. Not sure if it counts though as starting 18th on the grid doesn't really count as hero to begin with.

[DampMongoose]

Vic Elford in the 1968 Targa Florio.  A badly fitted wheel nut meant the wheel almost came off on lap 1 of the 10 lap race, having stopped and tightened the nut himself he proceeded only for the same to happen again, this time causing a brush with a kerb and resulting in a puncture.  With the spectators lifting the car Elford changed the wheel for the space saver and limped back to the pits.  He was now 18 minutes down,  driving a further 6 of the remaining laps after a brief stint by Magioli, Elford broke the lap record with a time 45 seconds faster than his pole position time, took 1st position by lap 9 and went on to win by 42 seconds.

 

This result meant Porsche changed their policy of only featuring cars in their winning posters...

[desmoulins]

Riccardo Patrese  Monaco 82. Spun, stalled, bump started and won 

[midgrid]

Danny Sulllivan survived this 360-degree spin (and unscheduled stop) to win the 1985 Indianapolis 500.

 

[hittheapex]

Ah yes Danny "Spin and Win" Sullivan. I wonder how he would have performed had he stayed in F1 longer than one season, I haven't watched 1983 but the results indicate that he performed respectably against Alboreto in his first and only season.

[desmoulins]

Danny Sullivan - there's a driver who got completely stuffed by his teammate in F1.....

[hittheapex]

Vic Elford in the 1968 Targa Florio.  A badly fitted wheel nut meant the wheel almost came off on lap 1 of the 10 lap race, having stopped and tightened the nut himself he proceeded only for the same to happen again, this time causing a brush with a kerb and resulting in a puncture.  With the spectators lifting the car Elford changed the wheel for the space saver and limped back to the pits.  He was now 18 minutes down,  driving a further 6 of the remaining laps after a brief stint by Magioli, Elford broke the lap record with a time 45 seconds faster than his pole position time, took 1st position by lap 9 and went on to win by 42 seconds.

 

This result meant Porsche changed their policy of only featuring cars in their winning posters...

Wow, that's one heck of a drive, sounds worthy of comparison with the 1957 German Grand Prix. I need to buy a good book on that era of sportscars someday, I've heard some great stories from Redman and Bell on the Motorsport Magazine podcasts.

[Nemo1965]

Danny Sullivan - there's a driver who got completely stuffed by his teammate in F1.....

 

Eh?

[desmoulins]

Eh?

 

Its hardly debatable is it? Alboreto was only in his second full season, outqualified Sullivan in all but one race, outscored Sullivan and won in an underpowered car at Detroit. Alboreto went to Ferrari, Sullivan to CART with his tail between his legs.

[Amphicar]

Graham Hill at the 1965 Monaco Grand Prix. Hill started the race from pole position and was leading easily until lap 25, when he had to take to an escape road to avoid a backmarker who was at the hairpin stuck in first gear. After pushing his car back to the track, Hill rejoined in fifth place, having lost 35 seconds. Graham's dander was up. He first caught and passed team-mate Jackie Stewart and then, after Jack Brabham had retired from the lead, he set off after the Ferrari pairing of Surtees and Bandini. He passed Surtees on lap 53 and (after several attempts) slipped by Bandini on the run down to Mirabeau to re-take the lead, with about 35 laps to go. Graham broke the lap record several times during his comeback charge to complete a hat-trick of Monaco victories.

Edited by Amphicar, 15 October 2014 - 22:48.

[Dick Dastardly]

Mansell....'86 British GP at Brands.   Drive shaft(s [?} failed at the start, so he was out.   1st corner accident meant red flag. He took the restart in the spare car, which wasn't set up for him, and passed Piquet for the win.....

 

Suppose you could say the same for Hunt 10 years earlier....took the restart in a hastily repaired car after tangling with the Ferraris at Paddock then winning.....only to have the win taken away several months later......

Edited by Dick Dastardly, 15 October 2014 - 11:15.

[7MGTEsup]

Mansell 87 British grand prix?

[SonJR]

Button in Canada would've been way too Hollywood if there had been a title on the line.

[Spillage]

Dan Wheldon's final Indy 500 win in 2011 must be up there, given he was a wildcard entry who didn't actually have a seat that season. Total contrast to JR Hildebrand's spectacular hero-to-zero moment in the final turn.

There's also Nuvolari's legendary Nurburgring victory in 1935 - perhaps even greater than Fangio's 22 years later.

Edited by Spillage, 15 October 2014 - 11:40.

[byrkus]

Jim Clark in Monza 1967. Hero (leader), to zero (got a puncture and lost a lap), to hero (again made it to lead!), and again to (almost) zero (his fuel pump gave away in final lap)...

[Amphicar]

If you look at the official results of the 1970 Daytona 24 Hour race you will see that Brian Redman finished first and second in two different John Wyer Porsche 917s. Here is the explanation in his own words:

"Well, our trouble started about 4 or 5 in the afternoon when, on the back straight, and there was no chicane in those days, we were getting about 210 miles an hour coming on to the banking. Just before the banking there was a group of Trans-Am-type cars, Mustangs and Camaros, there were 4 or 5 of them, they were slip-streaming each other (but) there was room down the middle. I flew down the middle and just as I got past the front car my left rear tire burst. So, the tire went flailing around, hitting everything inside (the car).

We lost about 20 minutes in the pits repairing the damage. And then, at about one in the morning we had a fuel leak, we lost another 20 minutes. About 2:30 in the morning, I’m coming off the banking at well over 200 miles an hour, there’s a bump and boom! I spin all the way down the pit straight but didn’t hit anything. The right rear suspension had fallen off. A bolt had broken and that took another 20 minutes. Now, we’re back somewhere in 5th or 6th, driving like maniacs, of course, which is fun! About 6 or 7 in the morning the clutch failed. So now, it’s pushed behind the wall and that’s it, we’re finished.

Maybe 30 minutes later, David Yorke, the team manager said ‘Brian, I want you to drive’ (the Rodriguez/Kinnunen car) which was leading. So I did a session in that car and just towards the end of the session, on the pit straight, Siffert comes flying past me waving! They’d changed the clutch in like 45 minutes or something, unbelievable. We took 2nd place from the Andretti/Ickx Ferrari 512 with not very long to go."

[sennafan24]

Michael Schumacher of 2001 in Sepang?

That was more of a Ferrari "Zero to Hero"

 

Rubens performed the same overtakes as Schumi to climb the field, and they finished 1-2. The intermediate tyre ensured the Ferrari could climb through the field.  It was a tactical effort by the team, and a good performance by both drivers.

 

The difference between the two Ferrari drivers that day was Rubens making a extra pit stop, as they were given different strategies.

[TomNokoe]

Jenson's whole floomin career!

[sennafan24]

Jenson's whole floomin career!

The vast difference between Jenson's 2008 campaign and 2009 campaign is astonishing.

[TimRTC]

Could put in Andy Jordan here. Last round of the 2013 BTCC season, close but not sealed champion. Second race of the three he takes a hard hit and hobbles back to the pits to retire. Final race, dark and wet, needs to claw his way from the back of the 30 car pack on the tight Brands Hatch GP circuit, with his closest rival leading the race.

Superb drama as always.

Edited by TimRTC, 15 October 2014 - 17:02.

[DainBramaged]

The vast difference between Jenson's 2008 campaign and 2009 campaign is astonishing.

The difference between a slow car and a fast car? I'm not saying JB is the best on the grid, but I think some people under-rate him. He did a good job in his first season at Williams scoring points (when they only went down to 6th) on a few occasions. He also came 3rd in the WDC behind the Ferrari's in 2004 and that was in a BAR. He put in some good drives for BAR/Honda between 2004-2006 and I'm sure he had some more decent drives after that, but the Honda was so crap no one noticed. I think he did have a bit of a playboy image and maybe didn't take his driving as seriously as he should have for a few years (maybe in his Benetton days), but he didn't suddenly find himself in a Brawn or a McLaren and suddenly figure out how to drive well. He aint the fastest, but he's a very decent peddler.

Edited by DainBramaged, 15 October 2014 - 17:13.

[sennafan24]

The difference between a slow car and a fast car? 

Yep

 

The difference in fortunes allowed him to go from an also-ran, to a credible and deserved Champion.

 

I was not questioning his talent, more highlighting his change in fortune.

[DainBramaged]

Yep

 

The difference in fortunes allowed him to go from an also-ran, to a credible and deserved Champion.

 

I was not questioning his talent, more highlighting his change in fortune.

No, I know. I was being a bit flippant with that answer

[SpartanChas]

Hamilton, Silverstone 2014?

 

Hero halfway through Q3, on provisional pole, then opts to abort his final run, leaving him back in 6th. Carves through the field in the race to second, slowly catching Rosberg, who then breaks down, giving Lewis the victory.

[Myrvold]

The 2008 Monaco Grand Prix could be another. Hamilton putting it into the wall in the opening laps, fortuitously avoiding terminal damage to the suspension. Was helped by a safety car a few laps after his pit stop but still, recovered and opened up a comfortable gap to the field, before another safety car towards the end of the race closed them up again and he maintained the lead until the flag.

Wasn't he also very "lucky" at the time that he crashed, so he could change tyres as well, and therefor was the first driver to get on to inters?

[P0inters]

Hamilton, Silverstone 2014?

 

Hero halfway through Q3, on provisional pole, then opts to abort his final run, leaving him back in 6th. Carves through the field in the race to second, slowly catching Rosberg, who then breaks down, giving Lewis the victory.

Passing 5 cars in car which was at least a second faster than the rest and then cruising to a win after your teammate breaks down isn't exactly zero-hero-zero. You could pick much better ones for Lewis than that.

[CSquared]

Apologies if I'm not remembering all the details right. WRC New Zealand, 2010. 

 

Friday: Sebastien Loeb is leading. Hero. Hits a bridge, ends up 1:40 off the lead. Zero.

 

Saturday: Loeb charges and puts in what even some of his competitors, including rival team managers, call one of the greatest performances in rallying history. He makes up 1:35 on the leader and is in position to challenge for the win on Sunday. Hero.

 

Sunday: Loeb crashes again (might have even been twice). Finishes 3rd. 3rd's better than zero, but . . . 

[OvDrone]

Could put in Andy Jordan here. Last round of the 2013 BTCC season, close but not sealed champion. Second race of the three he takes a hard hit and hobbles back to the pits to retire. Final race, dark and wet, needs to claw his way from the back of the 30 car pack on the tight Brands Hatch GP circuit, with his closest rival leading the race.

Superb drama as always.

 

I'll echo this wholeheartedly. Sad to see how this season went for him, but that weekend, man ... he really grabbed it by the balls.

 

 

And that Fangio '57 Nurburgring God-level drive. Clearly top five ever Motorsport drives.

[George Costanza]

Hamilton, Silverstone 2014?

 

Hero halfway through Q3, on provisional pole, then opts to abort his final run, leaving him back in 6th. Carves through the field in the race to second, slowly catching Rosberg, who then breaks down, giving Lewis the victory.

 

Silverstone 2008 in the rain was like Senna in 1993 or Schumacher in 1996.

[hittheapex]

Wasn't he also very "lucky" at the time that he crashed, so he could change tyres as well, and therefor was the first driver to get on to inters?

True, but that didn't stop other drivers coming in before or just after should they have wished, and in any case I would have thought the short term gain once others realised inters were the way to go would have been mostly cancelled out by limping round, even if it was in the final sector. Edit: Plus the safety car coming out a few laps later. Could be wrong in my recollection slightly as it was 6 years ago, but I think the luckiest part was the suspension staying together!

Edited by hittheapex, 16 October 2014 - 01:42.

[Collombin]

And that Fangio '57 Nurburgring God-level drive. Clearly top five ever Motorsport drives.

But let's ignore Brooks' equally brilliant drive the following year. Cos he never won the WDC. So he's ****. Or something.

[Spoch]

How come no one remembers Hamitons drive in the 2006 Turkish gp2 stellar drive and recovery after spinning off, he recovered to finish second and had the race gone on for another lap he would have been p1

[George Costanza]

How come no one remembers Hamitons drive in the 2006 Turkish gp2 stellar drive and recovery after spinning off, he recovered to finish second and had the race gone on for another lap he would have been p1

 

Because its GP2. Not F1.

[hittheapex]

But let's ignore Brooks' equally brilliant drive the following year. Cos he never won the WDC. So he's ****. Or something.

I don't see the need for that tone. There is also a difference between choosing to ignore something and not being aware of it beforehand. I've enjoyed reading many books and magazines that look back at past eras, but don't recall seeing anything about that. I venture that others are in the same situation. You could have just nominated the Brooks drive and told us about it and why you think it deserves comparison with Fangio's. That would have been much more polite, not to mention fun and interesting. Do share, please.

[Spoch]

Well is Indy 500 F1? because I see some posters mentioning drives from Indy 500