198 replies to this topic

[TimRTC]

 

With the 2014 BTCC season boasting the biggest grids, biggest fanbase and most interesting racing in a generation, the 2015 season is likely to prove even more thrilling.

 

Silly season talk has already started - a new Infiniti two car team announced, Honda considering moving to the new R-Type Civic, Andy Jordan wanting access to the latest factory models or he will move to another marque and mention on the final ITV4 show of 2014 that Sam Tordoff is moving elsewhere for 2015, things are already getting interesting.

 

Discuss...

[DampMongoose]

 

With the 2014 BTCC season boasting the biggest grids, biggest fanbase and most interesting racing in a generation, the 2015 season is likely to prove even more thrilling.

 

 

In a generation? Usually that would cover 25 years which would put you back in the Super Tourer category, which for me was far better, and more interesting than the iffy driving standards racing we currently have.  Top drivers, manufacturers, and a less gimmicky method of qualifying.

[billm99uk]

In a generation? Usually that would cover 25 years which would put you back in the Super Tourer category, which for me was far better, and more interesting than the iffy driving standards racing we currently have.  Top drivers, manufacturers, and a less gimmicky method of qualifying.

 

More money around then, so I'm happy we've a full grid now. And if you think they're wasn't as much moaning about driving standards in the Super Touring era, you've a very rose-tinted memory! Hell we even had a title settled with a famous punt.

[F1matt]

Sam Tordof is supposed to be joining Colin Turkington at WSR, maybe Dick Bennets is getting sick of providing such a great car that only one driver can used properly....

[BARHonda006]

Alonso to Honda? Sorry...wrong thread!

Edited by BARHonda006, 17 October 2014 - 15:33.

[DampMongoose]

More money around then, so I'm happy we've a full grid now. And if you think they're wasn't as much moaning about driving standards in the Super Touring era, you've a very rose-tinted memory! Hell we even had a title settled with a famous punt.

 

Quite true, and yes I probably do think past some of the indiscretions in the past despite being there at Silverstone, although I'd say it is worse now than it was then.  It's a shame that more hasn't been done about it, but I think some of it is actually encouraged by those in control as a marketing strategy.   But a full grid is good as you say, although I'd like to see more saloon cars than hatches if I'm honest.

[Kraken]

The MG contract is up isn't it? So Tordoff would have to look elsewhere as would Plato. 

 

I wish they would give the cars more power or make them lighter. The power to weight ratio is really poor for a premier series.

[ExFlagMan]

I wish they would give the cars more power or make them lighter. The power to weight ratio is really poor for a premier series.

Either of which would end up decreasing the no of cars, as they would push up costs, just as it did in SuperTouring - think acid etched body panels (be careful where you push lads as you'll bend the wings', 'single use' alloy rims ('coz it was impossible to remove the tyre without destroying the rims}, reverse gear ratios so thin they would break if you tried to use them with the engine running (only there in case the scrut's checked for a reverse.

Edited by ExFlagMan, 17 October 2014 - 17:06.

[Kraken]

It's nice having full grids but the cars just look so tame and well within the capabilities of the decent drivers to handle. Plato has said that the cars are pretty primitive. It's the weight I have an issue with mainly. 1400kg is a lot for a tin top.

 

To be honest some of the cars at the back wouldn't be missed that much as far as the action goes.

 

. 

[chunder27]

Any generation of BTCC that had Reid in it was iffy let's face it, dirtiest driver to ever sit in a touring car!

[Bo77as]

Interestingly, that new Infiniti team is non-profit, and is instead raising money for a Paratrooper charity, hence 'Support Our Paras Racing'. Not to mention they've signed 2 BTCC rookies, however both raced in Super Touring Cars recently.

[BRG]

Any generation of BTCC that had Reid in it was iffy let's face it, dirtiest driver to ever sit in a touring car!

Dirtier than Sytner?  Or Rouse?  Either of those make Reid look like a saint.

[F1matt]

Dirtier than Sytner?  Or Rouse?  Either of those make Reid look like a saint.

 

 

 

 

Never really considered Andy Rouse a dirty driver for some reason, Frank Sytner on the other hand.....

 

Sytner always looked the type of bloke who would willingly settle any argument in the paddock if anyone had an issue with his driving!

[billm99uk]

So who do we know is definitely continuing then?

[Fastcake]

It's nice having full grids but the cars just look so tame and well within the capabilities of the decent drivers to handle. Plato has said that the cars are pretty primitive. It's the weight I have an issue with mainly. 1400kg is a lot for a tin top.

 

To be honest some of the cars at the back wouldn't be missed that much as far as the action goes.

 

. 

 

You'll appreciate a full grid far more at the circuit. Having 30 cars on track means you're rarely sitting in the stands without something to watch!

 

Besides, at this level of racing, teams and drivers often find themselves sitting out race meetings or having to withdraw mid-season. Many of the teams are still small, family-run affairs, and financial constraints, car write-offs or just a personal issue can be enough to stop them taking part. Having those cars at the back, even if some may be occupied by less than stellar drivers, means there will always be enough entries to keep a healthy-looking grid.

[BullHead]

And they're all try to prove something.... that little bit more...

[Kraken]

We'll have to agree to disagree on the grids. I would prefer to see a grid of 20 top cars rather than 30+ of people and teams who should really be in the higher forms of clubman racing rather than in the BTCC. It's supposed to be the pinnacle of UK Tin Top racing after all.

[JHSingo]

 

To be honest some of the cars at the back wouldn't be missed that much as far as the action goes.

 

Particularly those Protons. Quite comical how utterly useless they are really.

 

Could be mistaken, but didn't Dan Welch end up on minus points this season for too many engine changes or something? You're right, the quality at the back of the grid is...poor to say the least.

[midgrid]

Yes, Welch finished on -40 points this season, which is a shame as the Proton has been a decent midfielder in previous seasons.

[billm99uk]

Aiden Moffat to run second Mercedes A-Class:

 

http://www.touringca...r-aiden-moffat/

[midgrid]

Lots of regulation changes announced for next season today!

 

• The amount of success ballast will increase significantly (but no figures decided upon yet).  RWD cars will have to carry their ballast as far forward in the cabin as possible.
• Cosworth and Xtrac will analysise the starting performances of RWD and FWD cars with the aim of equalising them through engine management systems.
• Boost levels will no longer be adjusted throughout the season based on lap-time performance.
• The mandatory use of the soft-compound tyres will not be per race, but instead each driver must use them in three Race 1s, three Race 2s and three Race 3s throughout the season (excluding Thruxton).
• The grid for Race 2 will no longer be set by the finishing order of Race 1, but rather the fastest lap classification of Race 1 (excluding times set after a change of the same type of tyres mid-race).

These are all very significant and should have a big effect on how the teams and drivers go racing next year.

[TimRTC]

Well, parts 1-3 are just to stop Messrs. Plato and Neale moaning so much. Not really sure if the tyres thing will make much difference, it never seems to make too much difference during the races (probably a good thing, considering how badly DTM did their option tyre in 2014).

 

I would like to see a change to Race 2 - on the tight circuits like Oulton, winning the first race almost guarantees a win in race #2. However, I worry this will lead to drivers competing to set fastest lap times and we could see cars at the back of the grid dropping back into clear air and running in quali spec. to get a good position in race 2.

[king_crud]

Exactly, I didn't think there was too much wrong with the rule as they are to be honest

[sabjit]

 

 

• The grid for Race 2 will no longer be set by the finishing order of Race 1, but rather the fastest lap classification of Race 1 (excluding times set after a change of the same type of tyres mid-race).

 

This has pro's and cons. Pro's include that a driver who suffers a mechanical failure or is crashed off by another driver at the end of the race will not end up having their entire day ruined.

 

Cons include some rather distasteful tactics which include people electing not to race for position at the end of race 1 and instead dropping back for some clear air lap times (as was pointed out by 2 posts above me)

[F1matt]

This has pro's and cons. Pro's include that a driver who suffers a mechanical failure or is crashed off by another driver at the end of the race will not end up having their entire day ruined.

 

Cons include some rather distasteful tactics which include people electing not to race for position at the end of race 1 and instead dropping back for some clear air lap times (as was pointed out by 2 posts above me)

 

 

Plato used to be a master of this back in the Seat days when 10th in race two was pole for race three. I suppose it depends where you are in the points.

[Kraken]

People aren't likely to give up solid points for the chance of pole. I can see someone who get spun out so is way out of position doing it but I don't have an issue with that.

 

Good news on the ballast front. The BTCC cars are such fat things anyway that 45kg didn't really make as much difference as it should.

[JHSingo]

• The grid for Race 2 will no longer be set by the finishing order of Race 1, but rather the fastest lap classification of Race 1 (excluding times set after a change of the same type of tyres mid-race).

 

 

Err, why?

 

Talk about coming up with a solution to a problem that didn't exist. That's just convoluted and unnecessary, in my opinion.

[Kraken]

It was definitely a problem. If you qualified well for race 1 and then got taken out partway through the race you were then right at the back for race 2. Same if you had a technical issue. Basically you ended up losing a hatful of points in two races for one incident and with the cars being so much closer now it could basically destroy your season.

 

I think the new way is a great deal fairer. Not going to help those who get taken out early on though.

[Callisto]

Any news on Plato's next team?

[JoseArrogantio]

It sounds like this new qualifying format will turn into a bit of a joke.

Will there be extra on screen graphics during the race showing the qualifying positions?

Why would anyone outside the points bother racing, would you not put a quli setup on and spend the race trying to do hot laps in clean air?

If you spend the first half of the race actually racing people and battling you’re not gonna have tires left during the rest of the race to set a good lap time. How is that fair.

Another example of a governing body introducing complicated and un-sporting rules that will be hard to explain to the casual viewer.

[JHSingo]

It was definitely a problem. If you qualified well for race 1 and then got taken out partway through the race you were then right at the back for race 2. Same if you had a technical issue. Basically you ended up losing a hatful of points in two races for one incident and with the cars being so much closer now it could basically destroy your season.

 

Tough luck, that's racing...

[TimRTC]

People aren't likely to give up solid points for the chance of pole. I can see someone who get spun out so is way out of position doing it but I don't have an issue with that.

Top 15 won't worry about it really but with 17 cars below that, there is a risk things might get messy back there as a pole for them might be massive.

It is certainly going to be fun at short tracks like Brands Indy if people start trying to bang in quali style laps during the race - will they be able to claim blocking against other drivers?

I wouldn't be surprised if they bring in some caveats to the format a few races in. Perhaps banding so the top 10 qualifiers will get the top 10 spots in race 2, but in fastest lap order, then the rest of the park sorted in fastest lap order, to stop someone qualifying 30th but getting up to pole with a sneaky fast lap.

Edited by TimRTC, 29 October 2014 - 13:20.

[Kraken]

 

Tough luck, that's racing...

BTCC is entertainment primarily and people don't like to see their favourite driver ruled out of two races for something that might be completely out of their control.

 

 

I wouldn't be surprised if they bring in some caveats to the format a few races in. Perhaps banding so the top 10 qualifiers will get the top 10 spots in race 2, but in fastest lap order, then the rest of the park sorted in fastest lap order, to stop someone qualifying 30th but getting up to pole with a sneaky fast lap.

 

I can't imagine that someone who could only qualify 30th would have the machinery or skill to be able to put in a race lap fast enough for pole no matter what setup they put on the car.

[BRG]

I can't imagine that someone who could only qualify 30th would have the machinery or skill to be able to put in a race lap fast enough for pole no matter what setup they put on the car.

 

Thank you.  A voice of reason amidst panic.

[TimRTC]

I can't imagine that someone who could only qualify 30th would have the machinery or skill to be able to put in a race lap fast enough for pole no matter what setup they put on the car.

 

 

True, but if someone who had a poor day on the Saturday, maybe a technical issue or a poorly timed red flag has the choice of either struggling past legion of back markers or putting in some quick times in the hope of getting into the top 10, I know what many will do.

 

Either way, it is not a major concern - as mentioned above, if it gets silly I'm sure they will quickly bring in new regs to change things.

[Kraken]

They should be capable of putting in a lap time that will get them at the sharp end of the grid and making some good progress through the back markers at the same time if they're capable of qualifying in the top ten without issues. Most of the time there are at least a few laps where you get some clean air when battling through the field.

 

I think it's for just that situation (and the race 1 crash/failure scenario) that the rule was brought in for. The teams have a lot of guests from their sponsors at each round and it's not good for sponsorship to have the cars running around at the back not getting the TV exposure they would get at the front. At least this way they get the potential exposure for 2 out of 3 rather than 1.

[midgrid]

It's Renault Clio champion Mike Bushell in, Dave Newsham out at AmD Tuning next year.

[Risil]

Err, why?

 

Talk about coming up with a solution to a problem that didn't exist. That's just convoluted and unnecessary, in my opinion.

 

BSB have been doing this since 2010 iirc. Works really well. It's nothing like random but you do get the chance of a different race the second time around. Also, they have a very commonsensical system where whatever laptime you set, the maximum number of starting places you can drop from Race 1 to 2 is something like 10. So if you retire in the opening laps you're not pushed right to the back of the grid.

 

But in the wet some very strange grids can take shape.

[BRG]

It's Renault Clio champion Mike Bushell in, Dave Newsham out at AmD Tuning next year.

When is someone going to get Paul Rivett from Clios?  If anyone ought to have graduated to BTCC, it's him.  Unless he doesn't want to?

Edited by BRG, 13 November 2014 - 12:00.

[midgrid]

Motorbase has signed GT racer Alex Martin for 2015.  The entry will be run under the name of his personal sponsor, so it looks to me like this is the equivalent of Jack Clarke's seat in 2014.

[retrogeezer]

sorry if this is the wrong thread but 2014 season review on ITV4 at 6pm on Sunday.

[BullHead]

Good call.Noted.

[midgrid]

So, after the earlier announcement of the Support our Paras Racing Infinitis, we now have a very similar effort  rumoured to be buying a TBL from an existing team.  The newly-formed Racing for Heroes team (affiliated with the charity Help for Heroes) is in talks for an entry next year with Renault Clio Cup runner-up Josh Cook as its driver.  The organisation will also enter teams in all of the TOCA support categories, excluding Ginetta Juniors.  (Source)

[BullHead]

What is it with these forces charities and racing teams? Again, I wonder just how is spending a fortune racing raising money?

[midgrid]

Andy Wilmot has signed to replace Ollie Jackson at Welsh Motorsport.

[midgrid]

After a year away, Jeff Smith is rejoining Eurotech.

[midgrid]

Bad news for West Surrey Racing, as eBay has ended its sponsorship of the team.

[F1matt]

Strange news to end a sponsorship deal when they have just won the title and the series is on the up again, few rumours linking jason Plato to BMW.

[BullHead]

I seem to remember talk of the e-bay deal coming to an end earlier this year. If it was contract term time thing, i would have thought they'd hammer a new one up on the back of this year's success, but... maybe e-bay have had their worth and want to go advertise somewhere else now.

[JHSingo]

Strange news to end a sponsorship deal when they have just won the title

 

Happened to Turkington before after he won his first title in 2009. RAC pulled their sponsorship and basically scuppered Colin's chances of defending his title. I sincerely hope history doesn't repeat itself, as he's probably the only world class driver in the championship!