55 replies to this topic

[August]

Two things aimed to have the title decided in the final race of the season. But which one do you prefer, or at least dislike less?

F1's double points are obviously the more conservative of these two. But I must say I prefer the Chase system. NASCAR Sprint Cup with the Chase is like NHL/NBA with playoffs after the regular season. The regular season decides only who make the playoffs, the playoffs decide the champion. F1, on the other hand, is like football leagues, it's about who scores most points throughout the season. F1 double points are like doubling the points on the last round of a football league. That's why I don't like F1's double points.

I dislike the Sprint Cup being ultimately decided in one race between four drivers but still prefer it to F1's double points.

[Henri Greuter]

Voted the NASCAR joke.

 

I can't believe that system still being retained after last year's race manipulation to get a certain driver within the deal...

 

Henri

[Bo77as]

It's tough, but NASCAR is still worse for now. Completely changes the title picture every year, normally for worse.

[Watkins74]

The double points in F1 is a joke.

The Chase is a manipulation but that series is based on that so it fits perfectly. .....and I'm not knocking NASCAR because their formula seems to work.

[Atreiu]

NASCAR's chase makes more sense and has made the races A LOT more tense and exciting.

 

Double points reeks of "WTF are we doing? ".

[Atreiu]

Voted the NASCAR joke.

 

I can't believe that system still being retained after last year's race manipulation to get a certain driver within the deal...

 

Henri

 

It got him in but had no real effect on the title outcome, as far as I remember.

 

The Chase system for this year may seem insane, but it has made things more exciting, IMO. It wouldn't work anywhere else, though.

[Victor_RO]

Chase is less annoying because it offers more opportunities for hilarity (and deep down, Nascar is entertainment above all else, so it kinda fits). Double points for Abu Dhabi is as sad and cynical as possibly imaginable, double points should be offered only if the event in question has something that sets it apart from the rest of the season in terms of difficulty (see the 500-milers in Indycar and LM24 in the WEC).

[Longtimefan]

I vote Nascrap, mainly because I don't watch it.  hah

[Andrew Hope]

I ain't even hating, but double points is a far dumber idea than the Chase, even if the Chase ultimately makes the season more worthless. I appreciate both the loud reason (it's gonna make the end of the season exciting every year!) and the quiet reason (duhh, we should be like football and have playoffs), even if they are both irritating. F1 double points just reeks of people doing the absolute laziest, silliest, most out-of-touch moronic attempt to make things (artificially) exciting. It smacks of "Oh ****, that whole formula part of Formula 1 means our sport is Richest Team Wins and that probably isn't going to be totally exciting every year. Or even one year".

Edited by Andrew Hope, 17 October 2014 - 21:29.

[Ross Stonefeld]

Definitely the double points.

[maverick69]

Like others have said - it suits NASCAR. Like them having more yellow flags than a Watford match.

 

It has no place in F1...... unless it helps Hamilton. Then it will be the greatest idea since the contraceptive pill.

Edited by maverick69, 17 October 2014 - 21:56.

[Dmitriy_Guller]

On their own merits, obviously NASCAR's system is a much bigger abomination.  To determine the champion based on a single race, more or less, is an unprecedented level of retardation.  It gets a little closer when you bring in expectations into it.  NASCAR is upfront about being a reality show, while Formula 1 used to be concerned about the legitimacy of itself as a sport.

[Dmitriy_Guller]

NASCAR Sprint Cup with the Chase is like NHL/NBA with playoffs after the regular season. The regular season decides only who make the playoffs, the playoffs decide the champion. 

The playoff analogy never made much sense, it's just a fig leaf for NASCAR.  Races are far more volatile in their outcomes than other sports, so to get results acceptably free of luck, you need to average the results over many races.  In others sports you also don't have to contend with spoilers that make up 90% of the field.

[Disgrace]

Whereas the Chase retains racing as an element in the money-making equation, I don't believe for a second double points was implemented with any consideration given to racing. In essence, it's much more hideous.

[Wes350]

The playoff analogy never made much sense, it's just a fig leaf for NASCAR.  Races are far more volatile in their outcomes than other sports, so to get results acceptably free of luck, you need to average the results over many races.  In others sports you also don't have to contend with spoilers that make up 90% of the field.

 

I think that many of the continual changes are due to the unwillingness of many, (Fans and France's alike) to accept the fact that Jimmy Johnson is possibly the greatest driver Nascar has ever seen. 

 

I believe that if Dale Jr. was a six time champ, the Nascar championship format would be one of the most stable in all motorsport.

 

The F1 double points is just a stupid idea rammed through by an old man who's grown out of touch with the fans of the sport.

 

The ever changing Nascar Championship format is due to the futile efforts of idiotic spoiled children locked in full ****** mode, trying to manipulate the series to get the champions they desperately want, while laboring under the horrible restriction of having to make it fair for all the other racers in the series.

 

So once again, Nascar capriciousness for the win.

[Myrvold]

I think that many of the continual changes are due to the unwillingness of many, (Fans and France's alike) to accept the fact that Jimmy Johnson is possibly the greatest driver Nascar has ever seen.

Though, with the classic point-scenario, wouldn't Gordon have 6 cups, and being pretty much on his way to a 7th now?

[Wes350]

Though, with the classic point-scenario, wouldn't Gordon have 6 cups, and being pretty much on his way to a 7th now?

 

 True, but people forget what a hated driver he was early 2000's, (That guy from California beating their Southern Hero's).

 

The chase was just as much about making things more random and stopping a similar run of dominance that Gordon, ( A hated driver at the time) had. So that the "favorite drivers" would be able to regularly win.

 

They just inadvertently ran into Jimmy Johnson. Funny how the format changed again the year after he won the chase for the sixth time...

[dave34m]

I dont know wht this chase thing is but am pretty sure I couldn't find something I dislike more than double points in F1.

[KingTiger]

NASCAR's way is definitely better. Double points just sucks. 

 

Neither have a place in the top level of motorsport, but NASCAR's interpretation is the lesser of two evils. 

[pingu666]

double points suck, this years chase system is pretty bad tho. but the chase system does give you some interesting story lines

[HuddersfieldTerrier1986]

Personally I dislike the Nascar system the least. Ok it's a bit of a daft system, but the F1 double points was the answer to a question that nobody had even asked, let alone a solution to a problem, therefore I dislike F1 double points more.

[John B]

Talk about the lesser of two evils - double points is a joke but looks enlightened compared to NASCAR.

 

Have hashed out a number of these already on the NASCAR threads but the biggest atrocity is 4 drivers starting the last race equal for the title. Also as it stands now a couple of drivers who were multiple entire races behind in the normal points may advance while several season-long frontrunners will likely be out because of breaks in the last two races. Tomorrow's round elimination race is Talladega, a lottery race where nearly any starter can win or run 40th and big crashe(s) routinely take out innocent drivers.

[RosannaG]

And what about adding "none of the above?   

 

But, between the two... Nascar... Double points in Abu Dhabi is a joke.

[Lazy]

No idea what the NASCAR thing is about, so I'll give it the benefit of the doubt.

[RosannaG]

I dont know wht this chase thing is but am pretty sure I couldn't find something I dislike more than double points in F1.

 

No idea what the NASCAR thing is about, so I'll give it the benefit of the doubt.

 

Hope this link will help... 

 

http://www.nascar.co...-explainer.html

[Bo77as]

Talk about the lesser of two evils - double points is a joke but looks enlightened compared to NASCAR.

 

Have hashed out a number of these already on the NASCAR threads but the biggest atrocity is 4 drivers starting the last race equal for the title. Also as it stands now a couple of drivers who were multiple entire races behind in the normal points may advance while several season-long frontrunners will likely be out because of breaks in the last two races. Tomorrow's round elimination race is Talladega, a lottery race where nearly any starter can win or run 40th and big crashe(s) routinely take out innocent drivers.

At the moment, winless Ryan Newman is one of the favourites due to the constant levelling out of the points.

[Wes350]

At the moment, winless Ryan Newman is one of the favourites due to the constant levelling out of the points.

 

After all the fuss they made about the new format forcing guys to race for the win, it would be awesome if he got his sole win in the final race and took the championship.

[MikeV1987]

I am not that familiar with NASCAR but I prefer the Chase over double points any day of the week.

[superden]

Double points is the most cynical horse-sh*t exercise I have ever seen. The Chase suits NASCAR's approach, audience and image. Double points is contrived balls and has no place in F1.

[Risil]

After all the fuss they made about the new format forcing guys to race for the win, it would be awesome if he got his sole win in the final race and took the championship.

 

I dunno, I'd also enjoy it if he finished 40th but his rivals finished 41st, 42nd and 43rd.

 

The thing about NASCAR is that its strengths prevent the championship as a single story arc from being an attractive proposition. It's great having 30 races where any one of 15 drivers can win, but that means your eventual title contenders are going to spend a fair amount of time racing for positions considerably lower than first. Like Indycar with the current Dallara chassis. 10 different winners or whatever, but you didn't know who was racing for the title until two-thirds of the way in.

 

On the other hand, Formula One. Great title battle this year, between two drivers whose cars are around 3 seconds a lap quicker than anyone else's. Restrict the number of drivers capable of running at the front, improve your chances of an EPIC TITLE BATTLE.

 

Any series promoter is better off, you know, making sure the spectators and viewers of any one event go away feeling they've seen a good motor race. It's a strange situation when NASCAR keeps making changes to the Chase because the Sprint Cup is such an important thing to win, but by having it in the first place makes the first two-thirds of the races practically meaningless in the context of the Sprint Cup.

 

Maybe we care less about the points standings than we're told we do? Any half-committed racing fan can tell you that neither of the best two drivers in F1 haven't won a championship in more than half a decade, or that Kyle Larson is a better driver than half the Chase contenders.

Edited by Risil, 18 October 2014 - 23:23.

[jonpollak]

Chase is less annoying because it offers more opportunities for hilarity (and deep down, Nascar is entertainment above all else, so it kinda fits). Double points for Abu Dhabi is as sad and cynical as possibly imaginable, double points should be offered only if the event in question has something that sets it apart from the rest of the season in terms of difficulty (see the 500-milers in Indycar and LM24 in the WEC).

 

And we ALL love hilarity .. Well, I do

[jonpollak]

I vote Nascrap, mainly because I don't watch it.  hah

 

Oh look.. It's the Euro version of Ann Coulter

[Risil]

Chase is less annoying because it offers more opportunities for hilarity (and deep down, Nascar is entertainment above all else, so it kinda fits). Double points for Abu Dhabi is as sad and cynical as possibly imaginable, double points should be offered only if the event in question has something that sets it apart from the rest of the season in terms of difficulty (see the 500-milers in Indycar and LM24 in the WEC).

 

While I understand that Indycar and the WEC have fundamentally different reasons behind offering double points for certain events, I do feel that it's bullshit when they do it too.

[Mauseri]

Both systems are awfull enough to not bother voting between them.

[John B]

After all the fuss they made about the new format forcing guys to race for the win, it would be awesome if he got his sole win in the final race and took the championship.

 

Even better, he could finish 20th and win it if the others were behind him (if he could do it with a couple free passes thrown in that would really cap it nicely ). Under this system last year Dale Jr. would have been a winless champ.

[August]

What I dislike in the Chase is it eventually being a one-race shootout for the remaining four guys. I'd prefer if the system took previous races at least a bit more into account. Something like a Chase driver winning the race automatically wins the Sprint Cup but if you don't win and the guy in front of you in points finishes right behind you, the guy who was ahead in points wins the Cup.

[nosaj100]

Given the choice, I'd go double points. I'm more us to it because its not totally uncommon to see it here in the States on lower level circuits and local tracks (I'm sure that thought infuriates F1 fans even more). But I absolutely loath the Chase. IMO, a motorsports championship should be determined over the course of an entire season, period. It's very difficult to run consistently well each week, that should be rewarded. You take that away when you stop at a cutoff and announce that now the next 10 races(or insert any number) will determine the champion. NASCAR made it even dumber and more contrived this year with the eliminations and dwindling it down to a one race shootout between 4 drivers. That's absurd. So now there's a significantly higher chance your champion can be crowned due to sheer dumb luck. Wonderful. Why not just put the names of all your race winners in a hat and the name you draw is the champ?

Edited by nosaj100, 20 October 2014 - 23:29.

[Option1]

Hate both, and was going to say equally, but in hindsight as someone above said the silly chase thing does at least suit Nascar.  Besides, the chase has just led me to stop watching this season out of boredom, whereas the double points means I will not be watching the last F1 race on principle.  So the hater vote goes to F1 for making me actually use a principle, the b@rst@rds!!

 

Neil

[dweller23]

I enjoy NASCAR, I'm watching it for pure entertainment value such as brawls, people being mad and some "amazing" finishes because of GWC. I don't have a problem with The Chase, it creates additional drama plus I also hope that Kenseth wins the championship without a single victory just for the heck of it.

[loki0420]

Double points. It's really out of proportion in F1 while Nascar stuff kinda fits the series and whole US entertainment spirit.

[427MkIV]

I voted for the Chase because it gives so many ways for NASCAR's dream scenario to get shot to pieces. Already, Johnson and Earnhardt are out of it, and two drivers with no wins are still in it. But based on performance this season, Harvick, Keselowski and Logano are the ones who should be battling for the championship, and they will probably be three of the four at Homestead. I would bet that they would be battling for the title in the last race under the old, pre-Chase format, too. The Chase was an answer to a question that didn't really need to be asked.

ETA, after last season's Richmond fiasco, Brian France said drivers would be expected to give 100% at all times or be punished. Well, with the new Chase format, it's obvious drivers haven't given 100% at all times this season, but no one's been punished. Unless you count Kyle Busch, who tried to drive near the back of the pack at Talladega to avoid a big wreck and still got wrecked. But Brian France probably didn't have anything to do with that.

Edited by 427MkIV, 21 October 2014 - 15:38.

[TimRTC]

NASCAR by a long shot. Even if the last race might be a little random, the elimators have been tremendously entertaining and nail biting.

The F1 just seems random and there is no reason to think it will make the race any more exciting.

[racinggeek]

Dislike the NASCAR version less because, hey, it's NASCAR -- whaddya expect? And honestly, the current format has created interest in the last few races.

[BullHead]

I don't follow NASCAR so I'm not going to vote. I'm aware of the chase system and think it's bollocks, and it must hurt traditional followers, but it can't be as bad as making one race suddenly worth more than the rest of the season's races. Both are anti motorsport and pro motorised entertainment. As some have already said, it might be more expected from NASCAR, but the so called pinnacle dropping the sporting merit? F1 has a responsibility to remain sporting. I've said in other threads the double points idea actually demeans all motorsport, as it is the one globally that gets the most media interest - and joe public doesn't need an excuse to say 'i told you car racing isn't a sport'.

[pingu666]

the interesting thing about the old chase vs new chase, is not much has changed, i mean after a round or two you could mentaly check off the guys in the bottom positions and gradually narrow it down each round anyways

[MightyMoose]

I hate the chase format in Nascar, the reset through the Chase doesn't sit well with me, I believe if you "win" a segment you deserve a small advantage going forward.  I also fundamentally believe that in a 36 race season if the Champion doesn't win a single race the system is utterly flawed, especially as NASCAR had something like 12 different winners already.  However, the tension and pressure is ramping up, and people still talk about the 92 finale when 6 drivers technically had a chance of the title so to have 4 possible winners going into that final race will be a huge moment.  Ideally based on season performance so far you'd say ShitHead Harvick, Kesolowski, Logano & Gordon would be the 4 but the system virtually guarantees probably at least 2 of them won't be in contention.

 

Will the decider suffer if we put Newman, Kenseth in place of Harvick & Logano? No, I don't think it will to any great extent, the drama of the moment will overwhelm any dissension, the time for that will be when the dust settles.

 

As for F1 double points, it's an utter sham.  I have no tools in the title fire so I hope whoever leads going in wins the title, unless the lead is 6 or less, then winner takes all.  But if the title is won because either driver got double benefit, then it's an joke and devalues the whole season.  The fans don't want it, I doubt the drivers want it, if the teams are honest they understand why it's bad for the sport and it risks pulling F1 into the media glare for reasons not related to the quality of the sport and as we have recently seen, the mainstream media ain't all that interested in being fair & reasonable when it comes to dissecting something they don't usually care about or understand.

[Tsarwash]

At the moment, winless Ryan Newman is one of the favourites due to the constant levelling out of the points.

I just looked at the current points table, and I have to say that it seems ludicrous. Somebody who hasn't won a single race, and only been on the podium once is way ahead of people who have say won three races and amassed ten or so podium positions. I don't watch the series, but from an outsiders point of view, there is something seriously wrong with their current points system.

[TimRTC]

Although of course to get in the Chase without a race win, Newman had to accumulate a great points tally, probably more than many of those who got in through a race win.

The big plus is that at least whoever wins will be recognised as winner. I greatly worry that with the F1 finalé, a driver will win because of double points but if they were not in use, he would not have won. Of course this will be very easy to calculate and will be used to diminish the title.

Given that many NASCAR drivers have altered their race plans to suit the chase format, it is impossible to work out really who would have won on a pure points based system.

[flyboy]

The NASCAR chase,  in all it's various formats, has to be one of the stupidist ideas in the history of motorsport.    NASCAR trying to become wrestling as they fear losing fans to football.      And now F-1 and Bernie trying to out-stupid NASCAR with their double points scheme at the last race.     They are both idiots.

[Wes350]

I just looked at the current points table, and I have to say that it seems ludicrous. Somebody who hasn't won a single race, and only been on the podium once is way ahead of people who have say won three races and amassed ten or so podium positions. I don't watch the series, but from an outsiders point of view, there is something seriously wrong with their current points system.

No podiums in NASCAR, just the winners circle.

I agree that the points system they use is part of the problem that led to the chase.