17 replies to this topic

[NeilR]

What is the role of the MSA in Britain? Reading some of the online information about different series around the UK I get the impression that the MSA is not in control of all motorsport in the UK ... yet their website seems to indicate that they are. Could someone enlighten me as to the how UK motorsport is governed?

[rhukkas]

The last several years has seen plenty of kart racing series/clubs/tracks detach themselves from MSA control because they are bloody useless.

[markeimas27]

In a word? Badly. 

 

It is still to this day ultimately governed as though it were some sort of 'old boys' club and the BRDC for instance has too much say over some decisions which are made. Operationally, it seems a yearly affair where licensing is a problem. Instructors and the quality of them are currently a joke. You don't even have to have raced anything to be an instructor! etc etc etc....

[TimRTC]

Well they don't have anything to do with BRISCA stock car racing for instance. But the vast majority of clubs are run by MSA approved

 

There are a tough decisions they need to make. Some accuse them of controlling too much but if anything, the MSA doesn't do enough to control the setting up of new motorsports series - hence the confusion over all the junior series, including two Formula Fours, that leads to small grids and confusion over where young drivers should be focusing their efforts.

 

There is a reason that British GT and Touring cars are the most successful national series in Europe, while British F3 has come to a crashing halt yet the German and Spanish (not billing itself as F3 any more...) are still packing large grids.

[markeimas27]

There is a reason that British GT and Touring cars are the most successful national series in Europe, while British F3 has come to a crashing halt yet the German and Spanish (not billing itself as F3 any more...) are still packing large grids.

 

Yet ironically, I wonder if you realise who is the one man who heads up both TOCA and the MSA? Do you know?

[chunder27]

They are a shambles in my opinion.

 

Look at what they have contributed to in British rallying, taking catastrophic decisions (although not alone) on the rallies, the types of cars to be used. From going all kit car, to going full S1600, no WRC cars, tthen now oging to R3 only.  A total disgrace. OUr serie wnet from being a place where drivers came to learn, to now being usurped by lots of other countries series. Hirvonen, Mikkelsen, Latvala all came here first, where are they going now?

 

They seem utterly incapable of helping circuits that are in trouble, did they get invovled much with the Mallory, Croft situations? I know they are not strictly responsible for individual circuits, but surely as the governing body they could be a little more helpful in those circumstances?

 

They seme more than happy to sit, take in millions from licences, entry fees, and the like and do very little else.

 

They do some good things too, such as getting women involved nad trying to get people into racing, but compared to people likie ADAC and what theya re doing in Germany, the situation here is shambolic and a toal disgrace considering the depth of interest, the industry and history we have.

 

Theya re stand off ish, very quiet on just abotu everything and really pretty ineffectual.

[ArnageWRC]

I maybe wrong - but I  always feel that the MSA would rather Rallying went away; and everybody went circuit racing.  They've done very little to help in recent years, and the UK round of the WRC is a shadow of what it was; keeping it entirely in Wales is not doing it any good. Are they looking for new commercial sponsors? Or is taking the Welsh money too easy, and they don't have to do anything? Sooner or later that money will dry up, probably going towards a International 1 day cycle race which can develop far better returns on investment.

 

As for the rules/regs regarding car eligibility; K.37, etc not a great move - taking the biggest draw in UK Rallying out of action. Smart move, eh?

[Dick Dastardly]

Well they don't have anything to do with BRISCA stock car racing for instance. But the vast majority of clubs are run by MSA approved

 

 

Also...NASA controls Autograss.  The MSA equivalent, Autocross, has long since died

 

Mind you, both these sports [Autograss & Stock Car Racing] are solely based on ovals, so probably a lot easier to control than say rallying, which uses public roads even just as link sections

between stages. A breakaway group might encounter also sorts of legal difficulties and getting insurance cover etc for rallying. 

Edited by Dick Dastardly, 21 October 2014 - 22:28.

[BRG]

AS i understand it, the MSA has no real legal powers over motor sport.  It is just that, as with Britain's unwritten constitution, it is sort of understood that they are in charge.  Except when they aren't.

[Dick Dastardly]

The guy who quit a while ago as chief exec...Nick Bunting [?]....he'd had plans to shake up grass roots motorsport which didn't go down too well with the rest of MSA, hence his departure. I believe he was told to leave well alone, everything is OK as it is....

Edited by Dick Dastardly, 20 October 2014 - 18:27.

[chunder27]

NASA control autograss, and that formula has been allowed to get completely out of control money wise with people spending tens of thousands on proper little race cars to race round a field! Hard to police but what used to be a great little way into motorsport has spiralled out of control. But people are happy to pay, numbers are helathy as are tracks nationwide.

 

Autocross was never on oval circuits, it was run on fairly basic tracks but all off road. Totally on its arse and has been for decades, but actually doing OK in some European countries.

 

ORCI run short oval racing or most of it and are completely independent of MSA.  The n you have countless pirate trakcs and governing bodies running smaller oval tracks and banger trakcs on tar, dirt etc. Healthy again despite increasing pressures as a lot of rtacks are built in towns or near housing and cant afford to run.

 

MSA represent the minority I would say and with their track record on some sports isnt about time something was done to shake it up?

[rhukkas]

I maybe wrong - but I  always feel that the MSA would rather Rallying went away; and everybody went circuit racing.  

 

Funny you should say that because people say exactly the same about the way MSA treat karting.

Edited by rhukkas, 20 October 2014 - 22:21.

[Kraken]

The majority of non-MSA kart races I've done have tended to be as bent as a nine-bob note with even more of the "boy's club" mentality. If you're a mate of the organisers you can do what you like.

 

Safety wise I think the MSA do a lot of good. When I see some of the death traps that turn up for trackdays and are allowed to go out I wonder what would happen if there was more circuit racing without their guidelines.

 

I don't know enough about rallying to comment on that but I must agree that the whole open wheeler setup from karting upwards is a bit of a mess and needs sorting. That's not just the MSA though, the FIA can't seem to get it right either.

[BRG]

I maybe wrong - but I  always feel that the MSA would rather Rallying went away.

You're right.  Most of the MSA's recent rally policy has been around their pathological fear that there will be an apocalyptic accident and that they will get sued as the authorising body.  It's never happened of course, but it still seems to be their first policy criteria.

[BullHead]

To be fair there have been a couple of incidents recently, was it last year?

[Dick Dastardly]

To be fair there have been a couple of incidents recently, was it last year?

 

This year...May, Jim Clark Rally, 3 speccies killed

Plus a few competitors on other rallies within the UK  

[BRG]

Yes, but no-one has tried to sue the MSA over these sad incidents.  And why not having a motor bike engine in your rally car makes it dramatically less likely to kill people remains a mystery.

[rhukkas]

The majority of non-MSA kart races I've done have tended to be as bent as a nine-bob note with even more of the "boy's club" mentality. If you're a mate of the organisers you can do what you like.

 

Safety wise I think the MSA do a lot of good. When I see some of the death traps that turn up for trackdays and are allowed to go out I wonder what would happen if there was more circuit racing without their guidelines.

 

I don't know enough about rallying to comment on that but I must agree that the whole open wheeler setup from karting upwards is a bit of a mess and needs sorting. That's not just the MSA though, the FIA can't seem to get it right either.

 

I've done both and the BIG accidents tend to be at MSA meets. non-MSA tends to be more 'gentlemanly' and most aren't there to get to 'f1'.

 

Also, I've never seen any death traps at a non-MSA meet. Standards are just the same. And I've never heard the term 'track day' refereed to in karting. You mean test day?

 

The MSA allow historic racing which is bloooodddyyy dangerous.

Edited by rhukkas, 22 October 2014 - 22:01.