18 replies to this topic

[HistoryFan]

With Caterham and Marussia are set to miss the next two rounds in Formula, I asked me whether there have ever been a team in the last 30 years which sat out a weekend due to financial problems and came back later? I think there is no example, so history tells us: Marussia and Caterham will not come back again.

 

I am wrong?

[kamikaze1]

Wasn't there a rule in the Concorde Agreement that a team can't miss more than two races per season, and if so they lose their place on the grid? 

[Risil]

Andrea Moda missed the 1992 French Grand Prix, according to Wikipedia because they were stuck in traffic(!), but then returned to F1 in order to fail to qualify for another four races. Perhaps not technically financial reasons, but you suspect it wouldn't have happened if the team had been properly funded. The year before, their predecessor team Coloni had missed the Spanish Grand Prix from what I assume was not having any money.

 

Toleman missed the first three races of 1985 because they didn't have a tyre contract, although the roots of that weren't financial so much as commercial.

[ensign14]

Ligier missed the South African GP because of French sanctions, although those were apparently unimportant when Renault was going for the title there.

 

Williams definitely missed races for financial reasons in the 1970s.  Monaco 1977, with a limited grid, was the last time.

[SpaceHorseParty]

Arrows sort of missed 2002 French Grand Prix when all they did was drive one slow lap in the qualifying to minimise costs and yet, technically, participate in the race weekend. They then properly participated in the German Grand Prix, which was their last race ever.

Edited by SpaceHorseParty, 26 October 2014 - 18:33.

[george1981]

I can think of a few similar-ish occasions.

Minardi pulled out of the 2002 Spanish GP when they had a rear wing failure in the sunday morning warm up. They lacked the facilities to check and/or repair their spare wings at the track so chose not to race on safety grounds.

Even though not directly financial a better funded team wouldn't have missed the race due to that problem. Minardi limped on for a few more years until they became Toro Rosso.

Arrows played silly buggers deliberately not qualifying for a race. This was when they were trying to sell the team and there was a question  of liability if the cars were damaged in a race.They ended up folding just after that.

 

Personally I can't see there being many if any buyers for these two teams.

[Risil]

Didn't Sauber pull out of the 2000 Brazilian GP after a couple of unexplained rear wing failures? Sometimes there are things you can't fix in a day with all the money in the world. Like Penske at Indy in 1995 or Mercedes at Le Mans in 1999.

[HistoryFan]

Yes, but Sauber and Minardi with their rear wing problems were not really financial reasons...

[DinocoBlue]

Mastercard Lola...oh wait.. never mind...

[Rob G]

Ligier missed the first race of 1987 when Alfa Romeo pulled the plug on their engine deal with the team during pre-season testing after Rene Arnoux criticized their new engines. Strictly speaking, it wasn't financial problems forcing Ligier to miss the race, but the situation undoubtedly cost them a great deal of money since they had to purchase Megatron engines and redesign the back half of the car.

 

Zakspeed missed all the flyaway races in their first season, 1985, to save money. However, those absences were planned in advance.

Edited by Rob G, 27 October 2014 - 03:18.

[Zippel]

Brabham missed the whole of 1988 due to lacking an engine.

[FPV GTHO]

The problem for Marussia and Caterham right now is they're making no attempt to go to America, not pulling out halfway through the event or failing to qualify.

If Marussia can regroup for Abu Dhabi they should make it to next year OK. Caterham IMO won't come back.

[Lights]

Nah they're not delaying the inevitable at all.

[Jackmancer]

1982 San Marino Grand Prix

[Dick Dastardly]

I thought Caterham are missing the next 2 races...(somehow I can't see them returning for Abu Double)....and Marussia are missing Austin only and would be back for Brazil

[TennisUK]

There is a crucial difference between Caterham and Marussia's situation. The F1 entry (and Concorde agreement signatory) is 1MRT, a company based in Malaysia. This company is not insolvent whereas their supplier company is.  This means that Caterham's F1 entry - if they miss only two races - is still valid. Marussia's however is in a trickier position as the company with the F1 entry has gone into administration which in theory means it loses it's F1 entry as it is insolvent. So in theory Marussia cannot come back, wether they miss one race, two races or more - because they are in administration they forfeit their F1 entry. Maybe someone will buy Caterham's entrant (1MRT) from who ever owns that at the moment, and then purchase the remnants of the Marussia facilities but as individual entities... I think that is no longer an option...

[Amphicar]

There is a crucial difference between Caterham and Marussia's situation. The F1 entry (and Concorde agreement signatory) is 1MRT, a company based in Malaysia. This company is not insolvent whereas their supplier company is.  This means that Caterham's F1 entry - if they miss only two races - is still valid. Marussia's however is in a trickier position as the company with the F1 entry has gone into administration which in theory means it loses it's F1 entry as it is insolvent. So in theory Marussia cannot come back, wether they miss one race, two races or more - because they are in administration they forfeit their F1 entry. Maybe someone will buy Caterham's entrant (1MRT) from who ever owns that at the moment, and then purchase the remnants of the Marussia facilities but as individual entities... I think that is no longer an option...

I don't think that is quite right. Marussia has entered into voluntary administration but the company has not been wound up. If (and it is a big if, I know) the Administrator is able to find a buyer for Marussia as a going concern and they only miss one or two races, the company's F1 entry remains valid. The situation with Caterham is more complicated precisely because of the split between the F1 entry holding company and the company running (and owning?) the cars.Even if the Administrator is able to find a buyer for Caterham, the buyer will have to do a deal with the entry holder to continue racing. Equally, the entry holder would have to conjure up some F1 cars if it wanted to continue separately from Caterham. The fact that there is still uncertainty over who currently owns Caterham just adds to the problems.

Realistcally, I doubt very much that we will see either Caterham or Marussia again - they seem fated to join the long and depressing list of plucky but extinct F1 minnows and dead ducks.

[Dick Dastardly]

Assuming Sauber don't score 2 or more points in the 3 races remaining, then Marussia, as 9th placed constructor, will get a wedge from FOM / Bernie.....they're probably relying on this to help settle their debts.  Or do they only get this as long as they're in F1 the following season?

[Bleu]

In 2002 there was fight as Minardi tried to get money belonging to Prost. (9th in 2001, folded after season) In the end they got it, the situation was settled around Nürburgring race.