66 replies to this topic

[SenorSjon]

In 2003 there were 16 grands prix in a season spanning 32 weeks.
In 2015 there will be 20 grands prix in a season spanning 38 weeks.

I wonder what effects a longer season with an increased number of events would have on the revenue, the costs, and the budgets of the teams at the top and the bottom of the prize money table.

 

Travel, freight, etc costs 20m. The revenue of those races goes to Bernie/FOM, but not towards the teams. 1/6th of the budget is spend on travelling around the world. As much as producing the car itself. While travelling is cheaper these days, they spend a ludicrous amount of money over it.

 

I wonder what all those 'expensive' testing days cost compared to the windtunneling they do now. 

 

In the past they made the T-car (sometimes two for Monaco) as well. And have more engines available with less rigid rules. 

[Fatgadget]

It's really bizarre. Teams have no free choice of tyres and still they have to pay for it.
Meanwhile the Pirelli ads are shoved in our faces at every track anytime we watch a GP.

So where do Pirelli get the funding to supply tyres?

[Fatgadget]

I had no idea the teams paid for the tires. I thought they were supplied by Pirelli as the official tire.

Given there is no such thing as a free lunch.Who then do you think footed the bill for supplying and shipping them tyres to the various GPs world-wide?

[SenorSjon]

So where do Pirelli get the funding to supply tyres?

 

Free advertising all over the place? 

[Fastcake]

Didn't Bridgestone use to pay to supply tyres? I don't think the teams had to pay in the past.

Travel, freight, etc costs 20m. The revenue of those races goes to Bernie/FOM, but not towards the teams. 1/6th of the budget is spend on travelling around the world. As much as producing the car itself. While travelling is cheaper these days, they spend a ludicrous amount of money over it.

I wonder what all those 'expensive' testing days cost compared to the windtunneling they do now.

In the past they made the T-car (sometimes two for Monaco) as well. And have more engines available with less rigid rules.

Half of the revenue from the races ends up in the teams hands. The problem is the structure of this years calendar, which is not very cost efficient for those who have to do the travelling. A number of figures have complained about things like ending the Australia/Malaysia double header recently - the calendar used to be more sensible just a few years ago.

Testing adds considerable costs over simulation (I presume you mean simulation as you don't "test" a car in the wind tunnel). The travel and freight costs would be even higher.

[F1ultimate]

$1.8m for fuel and lubricants? Lol and I thought my £220 monthly fuel costs were high. 

 

 

No wonder Richard Branson ran away at the chance he got. F1 is insanely expensive and not the sort of sport you enter with a calculator in one hand and a budget in the other - both will get blow out of your hands very quickly. 

 

Unless Bernie wants more teas to fail so that his three car dream can come true - the Concorde agreement must be revised to distribute more money around.

[SenorSjon]

Didn't Bridgestone use to pay to supply tyres? I don't think the teams had to pay in the past.


Half of the revenue from the races ends up in the teams hands. The problem is the structure of this years calendar, which is not very cost efficient for those who have to do the travelling. A number of figures have complained about things like ending the Australia/Malaysia double header recently - the calendar used to be more sensible just a few years ago.

Testing adds considerable costs over simulation (I presume you mean simulation as you don't "test" a car in the wind tunnel). The travel and freight costs would be even higher.

 

Nowadays everything is simulated. In the past, there was more testing and less simulating and windtunnel testing. Some teams favor imperical real world testing and others simulations.

 

But the preperation Vettel and Hamilton got before they started their F1 careers is impossible now. They racked up 1.000's of laps in real conditions instead of the simulator. The then test budget went straight to the windtunnel.

 

Half the profits yes, but the division is skewed. So teams like Sauber bring heaps of money to flyaways.

[Donka]

I call borderline bullshit on engine costs. That's hundreds of millions to develop the engines. I don't think so. 

The Merc annual budget report that came out a week or 2 ago showed Merc spent half a billion dollars on F1, $200mil of which was on engine dev.   I believe Renault had budgeted $160mil for initial development and were said to be way over budget at the beginning of the season, and who knows by how much now that they have some heavy design changes to make.  

[Donka]

It's really bizarre. Teams have no free choice of tyres and still they have to pay for it.

Meanwhile the Pirelli ads are shoved in our faces at every track anytime we watch a GP.

Funny how that works right, Pirelli was not announced by FIA as official tyre supplier after their last contract expired until they had completed a sponsorship agreement with Bernie.  So Bernie collects, I forget something like $50million per season, for the Pirelli branding around the track, all the while the teams have to pony up millions to buy tyres from Pirelli.

 

It should work where the tyre supplier pays for the advertising through supplying the teams free tyres.  Not paying Bernie for ads, and consequently charging the teams for tyres.

 

Just another thing wrong with the structure of the sport.

[Kalmake]

There was much more windtunnel testing in the past. It is restricted these days.

[Reinmuster]

It's really bizarre. Teams have no free choice of tyres and still they have to pay for it.

Meanwhile the Pirelli ads are shoved in our faces at every track anytime we watch a GP.

 

maybe teams paid for wheel rims? 

[Fastcake]

Nowadays everything is simulated. In the past, there was more testing and less simulating and windtunnel testing. Some teams favor imperical real world testing and others simulations.

 

But the preperation Vettel and Hamilton got before they started their F1 careers is impossible now. They racked up 1.000's of laps in real conditions instead of the simulator. The then test budget went straight to the windtunnel.

 

Half the profits yes, but the division is skewed. So teams like Sauber bring heaps of money to flyaways.

 

Stop conflating wind tunnels and simulation, they are not used for the same purpose. Before the restrictions came in, certain teams used to run two wind tunnels and a testing team round the clock, and were already spending money on developing simulators. With there being a practical limit as to how much you can spend on one thing, and simulation being much more cost efficient, the money was not simply transferred over.

 

Sure, the division is skewed up. But with some of the flyaways now paying enormous amounts of money, a more sensible calendar might see the teams making money off these races even under current arrangements.

[Petroltorque]

You'd have to get to the flyaway races first. Something both Caterham and Marussia failed to achieve. I think Bernie has provisioned that both teams have to Make Abu Dhabi to keep their licences.

[pingu666]

I see that Haas is riding for a fall "The teams that failed made mistakes..." And he won't?

 

i think he knows he will have to chuck huge money at the project each year, so as long as hes prepaired todo that, its ok.

[george1981]

You'd have to get to the flyaway races first. Something both Caterham and Marussia failed to achieve. I think Bernie has provisioned that both teams have to Make Abu Dhabi to keep their licences.

I think both teams need to start a lap in qualifying in order to show that they've attempted to enter the race.

If their engine suppliers or other creditors who supply vital components aren't happy then I think the team do the minimum to fulfil their contract with Bernie.

[Bloggsworth]

He has the advantage now that, assuming nothing changes and two teams are out and Kolles other project doesn't make the grid, he'll be team 10 in a series that only pays the top 10. So he'll be assured of getting some prize money at some point.

 

Hubris.

[black magic]

There is only one logical solution. The teams rebel and take over the commercial rights. these were the commercial rights sold by max for 100 Million as a great deal he said for the next 100 yrs. so at say 2 billion a year in income generated, only undervalued the sport by 2000 x.

 

CVC do nothing for their money other than paying off the price they paid for bernie had to pay someone else.

 

oh there you are max