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Bernie - Grid could go to 14 cars


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#1 SheIsDisaster

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Posted 31 October 2014 - 19:38

 

:eek:



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#2 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 31 October 2014 - 20:06

It would look terrible on the time sheets, the starts, etc. But otherwise, I'm not sure we'd notice. So many cars and drivers are invisible.



#3 Disgrace

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Posted 31 October 2014 - 20:12

Especially if nobody bothers to tune in.



#4 stewie

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Posted 31 October 2014 - 20:12

Well then, Mr Ecclestone, you best bloody do it something about it before your sport revenue stream dries up.



#5 August

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Posted 31 October 2014 - 20:14

Would probably affect on-track viewers more than TV viewers. Then again, as attendance figures are decreasing, not so many people would suffer if this happened.

#6 lustigson

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Posted 31 October 2014 - 20:15

Another day of free publicity for the ringmaster.

#7 Lights

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Posted 31 October 2014 - 20:17

Bernie says something shocking. Shocking.



#8 SheIsDisaster

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Posted 31 October 2014 - 20:19

It would look terrible on the time sheets, the starts, etc. But otherwise, I'm not sure we'd notice. So many cars and drivers are invisible.

 

Yep, less blue flag, safer race. But I hope that Enstone & Sauber will survive. 18 cars would be perfect.



#9 Gyno

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Posted 31 October 2014 - 20:20

He is spot on about the lack of SOUND.

 

They better do something about it or else F1 will not be around for much longer.



#10 SanDiegoGo

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Posted 31 October 2014 - 20:21

at some point someone is gonna make stink about red bull doing promotion with a screaming V8 and then going racing with a V6 turbo. false advertising etc.

 

again, i really don't think bernie understands just what can be dome with these engines. he seems to think the FIA will suddenly turn their back on these V6 turbos and just bring back V8. renault, honda and mercedes would never allow it. they insisted on these rules.

 

it looked like the promoter has been getting some grief about the noise levels and bernie is trying to placate him.

 

i did think way back that the people most put off by the new sound would be the american audience, simply because they dont follow the sport year round and some might genuinely have not even known about the new engines.



#11 wj_gibson

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Posted 31 October 2014 - 20:23

Bernie using this as an excuse to re-launch his "not loud enough" bullshit.

#12 Nemo1965

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Posted 31 October 2014 - 20:23

Everytime I start to be a little bit more optimistic, Bernie manages to say something to depress me.

 

Quite an achievement.



#13 P123

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Posted 31 October 2014 - 20:35

He's such a great promoter of the sport.

#14 rhukkas

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Posted 31 October 2014 - 20:39

NOISE ISN'T A PROBLEM

 

NOISE ISN'T A PROBLEM

 

NOISE ISN'T A PROBLEM



#15 Mat13

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Posted 31 October 2014 - 20:41

Obviously he's talking rubbish and is not to be believed, we know that. But does everyone? How many people watch him put down the sport-again- and talk about going back to v8s, and think 'that sounds like sh*t- maybe I won't bother next year.'? For someone who is supposed to be so clever, he does say some stupid things.

#16 Button4life

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Posted 31 October 2014 - 20:44

Who would've thought of that, from 24 cars in 2012.

 

Telfort-d.jpg

To 14 cars in 2014!


Edited by Button4life, 31 October 2014 - 20:44.


#17 Petroltorque

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Posted 31 October 2014 - 20:47

14 car F1? That's not viable. Track promoters and TV broadcasters will no longer pay the exorbitant fees. The business collapses. Dead enders may not want to believe it but I've too many companies go bust when they failed to adapt to market changes.

#18 maximilian

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Posted 31 October 2014 - 21:02

Great job deflecting the real problem (14 cars is no drama) into a pseudo-problem (we want noise!)!



#19 LeMans86

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Posted 31 October 2014 - 21:03

Who would've thought of that, from 24 cars in 2012.
 
Telfort-d.jpg
To 14 cars in 2014!

You have to be dutch to get this one

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#20 Button4life

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Posted 31 October 2014 - 21:06

You have to be dutch to get this one

You're pretty right



#21 F1matt

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Posted 31 October 2014 - 21:09

If we have 14 car grids does that mean the teams have collectively told Bernie they won't run three car teams?

#22 LostProphet

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Posted 31 October 2014 - 21:20

I take that as an acceptance that 3 car teams aren't realistic.

 

Bernie will never talk about the revenue split that goes to the teams - we have to rely on Dieter Rencken's columns in Autosport for that - but he will know that regardless of the cushy deals he's signed with the top teams, they still can't afford three car teams and will raise hell with him if he tries to make them do it.



#23 HeadFirst

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Posted 31 October 2014 - 21:38

Well I guess all those posters who b+m about useless teams with talent-less pay drivers not belonging in F1 will be happy.



#24 David Lightman

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Posted 31 October 2014 - 21:40

Good to see Bob from Force India saying what he thinks again about CVC, about time somebody did.

#25 Maustinsj

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Posted 31 October 2014 - 21:50

You have to be dutch to get this one

 

I guess that Kvyat will get this then.



#26 ClubmanGT

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Posted 31 October 2014 - 21:56

He has a point. F1 fans will watch no matter what the sound is like. New fans won't be attracted by...well....whatever this sound compared to what we had before. 

 

The only difference is that some F1 fans take any criticism of the sport so personally that they can't see the wood from the shitty sounding trees. 



#27 blackgerby

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Posted 31 October 2014 - 22:22

I guess that Kvyat will get this then.


ROFL

#28 Dolph

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Posted 31 October 2014 - 22:25

You have to be dutch to get this one

 

You mean to get why the chandellier goes down to your knees?
 



#29 Dolph

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Posted 31 October 2014 - 22:28

People, f***ing stop complaining about the noise there are perfectly simple solutions:

- when watching at home: TURN THE FRICKING VOLUME UP

- when watching at the race track: TAKE THE EFFIN EARPLUGS OUT

 

 

ITS THAT SIMPLE!!!!



#30 johnmhinds

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Posted 31 October 2014 - 22:34

Bernie always deflects the real issues away to something else.

 

Changing the engines back to louder V8s won't fix anything with the broken financial model.

It isn't the technical regulations that makes CVC take such a huge share of the money the sport attracts.

 

There is more than enough money created by F1 to support a full grid of £50million+ teams, CVC and the big teams are just short sighted and don't want to spread the wealth evenly to make the whole sport stronger.


Edited by johnmhinds, 31 October 2014 - 22:35.


#31 Dolph

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Posted 31 October 2014 - 22:54

The big teams could easily run a third car if they got a bit more TV money as compensation. Its economies of scale. They could even make a profit by running pay drivers in cars that use couple of months outdated parts that still have life in them.



#32 johnmhinds

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Posted 31 October 2014 - 22:57

The big teams could easily run a third car if they got a bit more TV money as compensation. Its economies of scale. They could even make a profit by running pay drivers in cars that use couple of months outdated parts that still have life in them.

 

Caterham and Marussia could have survived if they got some more TV money.

 

Why is it ok for Bernie to give the big teams even more TV money while he characterises the back markers as people with begging bowls?



#33 Jamiednm

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Posted 31 October 2014 - 23:04

Caterham and Marussia could have survived if they got some more TV money.

Why is it ok for Bernie to give the big teams even more TV money while he characterises the back markers as people with begging bowls?


I've also made this point. Obvious agenda.

#34 Murl

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Posted 31 October 2014 - 23:14

Caterham and Marussia could have survived if they got some more TV money.

 

Why is it ok for Bernie to give the big teams even more TV money while he characterises the back markers as people with begging bowls?

 

Would be great if an F1 journalist asked this question.



#35 Eff One 2002

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Posted 31 October 2014 - 23:18

Yup, so the situation is ****ed, and Bernie is essentially admitting it's ****ed. He'd better get off his poison dwarf arse and do someting about it, as as been said, and quick because he can live in the land of delusion all he wants, but if that were to happen and nothing was done about it, people would lose interest and switch off with only 14 cars on the track on a permanent basis.



#36 Nonesuch

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Posted 31 October 2014 - 23:27

Well, Ecclestone said that if two more teams quit the grid is down to 14. That's just basic math.

 

What he said is that he doesn't think racing with 18 cars in 2015 would be impossible. That is: there is no need for third cars.

 

He (and the race promoter) then proceeded to complain about the sound of the new engines.


Edited by Nonesuch, 31 October 2014 - 23:28.


#37 stewie

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Posted 31 October 2014 - 23:48

F1 should race with a reasonable (20+) size field. It is not some competitor to Auto GP or Indy Lights 2014 in terms of field size...



#38 RCRC

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Posted 01 November 2014 - 00:28

Would be great if an F1 journalist asked this question.

 

Professional suicide.



#39 rhukkas

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Posted 01 November 2014 - 00:44

People, f***ing stop complaining about the noise there are perfectly simple solutions:

- when watching at home: TURN THE FRICKING VOLUME UP

- when watching at the race track: TAKE THE EFFIN EARPLUGS OUT

 

 

ITS THAT SIMPLE!!!!

 

No it isn't 'that simple'. The engines sound terrible quiet or loud. They are just awful.



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#40 Fastcake

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Posted 01 November 2014 - 00:47

F1 should race with a reasonable (20+) size field. It is not some competitor to Auto GP or Indy Lights 2014 in terms of field size...

 

A series with less than 20 cars starts to look like its circling the drain. When the regular entries are down to the low teens, it generally means the series won't be coming back next year.



#41 noikeee

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Posted 01 November 2014 - 00:52

Also known as "doing a British F3" :(

#42 EthanM

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Posted 01 November 2014 - 01:02

 

Changing the engines back to louder V8s won't fix anything with the broken financial model.

 

 

Technically these engines cost more than 2x what V8s cost. You sure 8-10mil per season wouldn't "save" Marussia?


Edited by EthanM, 01 November 2014 - 01:04.


#43 Doughnut King

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Posted 01 November 2014 - 01:30

Also known as "doing a British F3" :(

 

Isn't the usual step for series dying like this: teams disappear > races get cancelled during the season > next year sees a reduced calender > that season or the one after never happens.

 

I think the difference with most other series with difficulties is that the promoter isn't in financial difficulty, like I believe Champcar and A1GP were.



#44 George Costanza

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Posted 01 November 2014 - 01:36

Bernie again?

 

Just retire Bernie....



#45 George Costanza

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Posted 01 November 2014 - 01:37

14 cars with a variety of engines wouldn't be too bad.......... But in this version of F1, its a nightmare.



#46 johnmhinds

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Posted 01 November 2014 - 01:46

Technically these engines cost more than 2x what V8s cost. You sure 8-10mil per season wouldn't "save" Marussia?


They aren't going to go back to V8 engines after they've spent so much on engine development this season, it isn't going to happen so the discussion is a non starter.

Btw you're vasting underestimating the engine costs anyway. In the team press conference today the boss of Lotus said his team had spent in the region of £60million just on the Renault engine and its development for this season, all of which will be thrown away when they start over with a Mercedes engine next season.

No wonder Caterham and Marussia folded if they had to spend similar amounts on the engines and then can't hope to get enough money from CVC to cover that new higher basic running cost.

#47 pdac

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Posted 01 November 2014 - 01:48

Could be much less sooner than he imagined - maybe this weekend



#48 Doughnut King

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Posted 01 November 2014 - 01:50

14 cars with a variety of engines wouldn't be too bad.......... But in this version of F1, its a nightmare.

 

Let's see, if Lotus and Sauber go, we'd have one Ferrari team, one Honda team, two Renault teams and three Mercedes teams for 2015

If Sauber and FI go, we'd have one Ferrari team, one Honda team, two Renault teams and three Mercedes teams for 2015.

If Lotus and FI go, we'd have two Ferrari teams, one Honda, two Renault teams, and two Mercedes teams for 2015.

If the remaining teams all survive we'll have two Ferrari, one Honda, two Renault teams, and four Mercedes teams.

 

The actual balance of engines doesn't actually change that much from what is already would be if we lost a further two teams.

 

At the start of 2014 we had three Ferrari teams, four Renault teams, and four Mercedes teams.


Edited by Doughnut King, 01 November 2014 - 01:53.


#49 Igorr

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Posted 01 November 2014 - 01:50

Going back to V8 is not the only solution. They can always increase the RPM limit, the horsepower and get the teams to have 7-8 engines per season instead of 5. The sound will come by itself when the engines will deliver 800+ horsepower



#50 EthanM

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Posted 01 November 2014 - 01:53

They aren't going to go back to V8 engines after they've spent so much on engine development this season, it isn't going to happen so the discussion is a non starter.

Btw you're vasting underestimating the engine costs anyway. In the team press conference today the boss of Lotus said his team had spent in the region of £60million just on the Renault engine and its development for this season, all of which will be thrown away when they start over with a Mercedes engine next season.

No wonder Caterham and Marussia folded if they had to spend similar amounts on the engines and then can't hope to get enough money from CVC to cover that new higher basic running cost.

 

I m talking about straight up engine cost, the money paid to Merc/Renault/Ferrari for a supply of PUs for the season. Not R&D. Marussia/Caterham don't even have 60m to spend. But the point is you can't solve a problem by just saying oh just give them an overdraft, F1 revenues didn't double just cause they run new engines.

 

Bottom line is simple, these teams signed up to race under Mosley's cost capped formula. Remember that? Cool. Now they are faced with engine bills that go over half the budget they signed up to race with, it stands to reason they would fail, whether Bernie pulled the plug or not. The whole massive engine spend was grossly mistimed, smack in the middle of a downturn in the economy, there's no amount of Bernie evil this and Bernie should that that can change that.