8 replies to this topic

[HistoryBuff]

Somewhere is reading about Porsche 904GTS cars on the net I came across what I consider to be a slightly inflammatory statement:

 

The 904-108 was the last factory chassis for 4-cylinder cars. Later some cars were built by privateers from spare parts and from self-made parts. The following made-up chassis numbers are known to exist: 904-109, -113, -115, -119, -126. Another fact worth to mention is that some of the cars around the globe have same chassis numbers. For example if after a crash a new chassis was ordered from the factory and the chassls number plate was transferred, the old chassis was shed aside with no further plans. But then came the times when 904 prices skyrocketed and the old crashed chassis were also woken alive and new number plates were fabricated with the same numbers. Because of the risen value of 904s even the totally crashed and burned-down cars have been restored.

Yet recently Lord Laidlaw's 904GTS (906-012) (never mind the 906 number, it would take too long to explain their numbering system but that SN is correct) sold for either a million pounds or close to it. So I think the paragraph quoted above is over-exaggerating the problem caused by old crashed chassis fished out of the dumpster and rebuilt into 904GTS cars. In my humble opinion, cars with a continuous chain of owners, good provenance, will continue to appreciate.  Ironically one of the cars was even crashed by Porsche who wanted to see how it took to a crash under controlled circumstances because this was before automakers around the world had to crash test cars before they were allowed to be sold in the U.S.

 

Any opinions appreciated...

[JoBo]

Somewhere is reading about Porsche 904GTS cars on the net I came across what I consider to be a slightly inflammatory statement:

 

The 904-108 was the last factory chassis for 4-cylinder cars. Later some cars were built by privateers from spare parts and from self-made parts. The following made-up chassis numbers are known to exist: 904-109, -113, -115, -119, -126. Another fact worth to mention is that some of the cars around the globe have same chassis numbers. For example if after a crash a new chassis was ordered from the factory and the chassls number plate was transferred, the old chassis was shed aside with no further plans. But then came the times when 904 prices skyrocketed and the old crashed chassis were also woken alive and new number plates were fabricated with the same numbers. Because of the risen value of 904s even the totally crashed and burned-down cars have been restored.

Yet recently Lord Laidlaw's 904GTS (906-012) (never mind the 906 number, it would take too long to explain their numbering system but that SN is correct) sold for either a million pounds or close to it. So I think the paragraph quoted above is over-exaggerating the problem caused by old crashed chassis fished out of the dumpster and rebuilt into 904GTS cars. In my humble opinion, cars with a continuous chain of owners, good provenance, will continue to appreciate.  Ironically one of the cars was even crashed by Porsche who wanted to see how it took to a crash under controlled circumstances because this was before automakers around the world had to crash test cars before they were allowed to be sold in the U.S.

 

Any opinions appreciated...

 

in my hometown in Northern Germany I had a friend in the mid-70s who used his 904 on the road as a "daily" driver. He had a bar and when he had closed it at 01am each time we "raced" against each other. I had a BMW 3.0CSL and a 911RS 2.7 at that time, both in lightweight specs. Great fun with almost no other traffic.

 

One night I saw a shadow flying over my car disappearing in the woods near the road. It was my friend in his 904 who went on an armco and and became airborne. The driver was unhurt but the car was a wreck and was scrapped without the engine. But he later sold the motor for DM 1,500 to the dealer ABT in Hannover, Germany. 15 (or so) years later he sold the original Title of the car to someone in Southern Germany. 

According to my knowledge this car "reappeared"  in Southern Germany with this Title.....

 

 

JoBo

Edited by JoBo, 02 November 2014 - 00:32.

[Stephen W]

It isn't just 904s that suffer, as the price of old cars increases and demand starts to exceed supply old wrecks will inevitably be resurrected. The people doing this are only interested in making money and are not doing it for the love of cars.

 

Maybe the critical point was back when cars were damaged in period and rather than cut up the wreck it was sold on for profit.

[Michael Ferner]

Maybe the critical point was back when cars were damaged in period and rather than cut up the wreck it was sold on for profit.

Of course it was! Why would anyone cut up a wreck if he can sell it?

It's the same old problem, isn't it? People who believe in chassis numbers are easy to deceive. Chassis are not cars, and chassis numbers even less so. Naivity amongst collectors is the cause for the all the grief they are now bemoaning.

[r.atlos]

@JoBo - I have sent you a PM but it said it was "blocked". Can you please check ?

[ray b]

how many 904's got the other motors then the 4's

like the 6 or gp based 8's ?

[bill p]

HistoryBuff, wonder what happened to this one that was being "crash tested"??

 

 

 

Performed at Zuffenhausen in factory backyard in 1966 - unsure of copyright and will remove if required

Edited by bill p, 04 November 2014 - 19:24.

[arttidesco]

Who broke wind in what ?

 

Caveat Emptor

[Lee Nicolle]

Fact.  In period many of these cars were crashed and it was either quicker or cheaper to buy new parts. 

Now these cars have escalated into big dollar cars and they are [provided stored properly] very viable to repair. Remember most were always repairable but for expediency and or the then cost of repairs these chassis or cars were put away for future reference.

This covers all racing cars from F1 down and many collectable cars of all types too.

And yes, chassis numbers were reissued to the replacement car. Even road cars had that happen in the past. eg, here in Oz I know of two Falcon GTs with one chassis number. The economically unrepairable wreck has been rebuilt 30 years on and the replacement shell that was stamped [with the approval of the relevant authority] was stamped with the original numbers. Both are kosher and neither totally legit.

And ofcourse  many cars have taken the identity of wrecks. Not legally usually.

 

With racecars the same has happened. read Alan Browns site. So many wrecked cars have resurfaced. This just in 5000s. In period many were ratted for Sports Sedans or Sports Cars here and I am sure in most markets. Remember these cars were not destroyed, just damaged or pulled to bits for other projects. And that includes many so called 'pukka' cars with a fully documented history.

Yet alone F1s for instance that had chassis numbers matching the travel documents. Others too I am sure.