75 replies to this topic

[LORDBYRON]

Good to see the old guy man up its about time tbh. But it seems he may have had to say it to save face.

 

http://www1.skysport...ott-threat-ends

Edited by LORDBYRON, 02 November 2014 - 15:23.

[johnmhinds]

It's still the same guy who before qualifying yesterday was still characterising those teams as being beggars and the only problem in the sport being the noise.

 

And the same guy who helped set up the F1 Strategy Group last autumn which was only designed to screw over the lower teams by pushing them out of the rule making process and giving himself and the big teams even more power to get what they wanted (pathetic double points, standing restarts and sparking cars being the end result of all that bullshit).

 

He may really have had a change of heart in the last 24 hours but it's going to take some real action to gain the trust back after all the **** he has pulled, it's very hard to believe anything he says.

[S3baman]

He also claimed that he has proposed to cut the money deals with the big teams. If the teams are ok with giing a certain amount to the smaller teams, he'll add the same amount to the total money prize. I think while he has been forced to kinda save face, he's making too many sensible declarations in the last 12-24 hours for this not to be an avenue he's pursuing.

Edited by S3baman, 02 November 2014 - 15:33.

[Hyatt]

just give that huge junk of extra-money that Ferrari receives to the smaller teams .... win-win situation for the sport!

[johnmhinds]

He also claimed that he has proposed to cut the money deals with the big teams. If the teams are ok with giing a certain amount to the smaller teams, he'll add the same amount to the total money prize. I think while he has been forced to kinda save face, he's making too many sensible declarations in the last 12-24 hours for this not to be an avenue he's pursuing.

 

Read the whole quote on that though...

Source: http://www.bbc.co.uk...rmula1/29868355

 

"I would say to people getting a chunk of money that I would like to take a percentage of their performance-related payment," Ecclestone said.

 

"I would put that money together to divide among the three or four we know are in trouble, and then I would put in the same amount of money.

 

"But there would not be one team that would think it was a good idea."

 

He said it because he knows it wont happen, the big teams aren't going to give up on the bad deals he made with them without a huge fight.

 

And he isn't talking about asking the big teams to cancel the big deals they have for getting money for turning up anyway, he is asking them to give up some of the prize money they get for winning races, in effect asking the race winners to pay the losers wages, so how the heck is that a more fair system? 

 

He isn't talking about fixing the real issues...

Edited by johnmhinds, 02 November 2014 - 15:58.

[SanDiegoGo]

bernie is admitting he f'd up? quick, everyone check your wallets.

 

seriously, though bernie is no stranger to crocodile tears when it suit his agenda.

[LeMans86]

bernie is admitting he f'd up? quick, everyone check your wallets.
 
seriously, though bernie is no stranger to crocodile tears when it suit his agenda.

No, he says that because he works for someone, he made deals he wouldn't have made if it was his own business

[just me again]

Do Not Think he mean it
I Think somehow the small teams have twisted Bernies arm. Really really hard. It's the only Way it makes sense.
Curios to, how the small teams did it!

Bjørn

[Henri Greuter]

Bernie blaming himself?

 

Now he is really showing signs of a serious illness. That kind of comments would he never had made if healty....

 

 

Henri

[S3baman]

Read the whole quote on that though...

Source: http://www.bbc.co.uk...rmula1/29868355

 

He said it because he knows it wont happen, the big teams aren't going to give up on the bad deals he made with them without a huge fight.

 

And he isn't talking about asking the big teams to cancel the big deals they have for getting money for turning up anyway, he is asking them to give up some of the prize money they get for winning races, in effect asking the race winners to pay the losers wages, so how the heck is that a more fair system? 

 

He isn't talking about fixing the real issues...

 

I haven't seen that full quote before, so thanks for pointing it out. I think that he is forced to at least try things. I doubt that the small teams would back out of a boycott without some sort of agreement with E. It's their only way of applying pressure where it really hurts, on CVC and Bernie. Now, in Friday's PC Totto and Eric maid it clear that they will never refuse the extra money from FOM. Nor will they give money to the smaller teams just because they're in a back financial situation. However, my understanding before seeing the full quote was that Bernie would rectify the overall money distribution to be more equitable. Clearly, that doesn't seem to be the case

[johnmhinds]

He isn't trying anything at all though, he just spouted off another bullshit idea to the press knowing full well it doesn't address the real problem and knowing the big teams have already publicly said this weekend that they aren't going to give any away any of their money to the lower teams to help them.

 

The only true thing Bernie has said all weekend is that he doesn't know how to fix things.

Edited by johnmhinds, 04 November 2014 - 10:59.

[Afterburner]

The cinematic side of me envisions this as the moment Darth Vader makes the turn--but has it come too late to chuck the Emperor down the pit and save Luke from frying?

[Slartibartfast]

Read the whole quote on that though...

Source: http://www.bbc.co.uk...rmula1/29868355

 

He said it because he knows it wont happen, the big teams aren't going to give up on the bad deals he made with them without a huge fight.

 

And he isn't talking about asking the big teams to cancel the big deals they have for getting money for turning up anyway, he is asking them to give up some of the prize money they get for winning races, in effect asking the race winners to pay the losers wages, so how the heck is that a more fair system? 

 

He isn't talking about fixing the real issues...

 

So, in other words, he is proposing that the teams' share of F1 revenue should be distributed among the teams differently, thus getting the teams to argue with each other over their own shares. Meanwhile, CVC's share of the F1 revenue...

[jonpollak]

Bernie is ALWAYS a great source of entertainment.

 

Jp

[Slackbladder]

He also claimed that he has proposed to cut the money deals with the big teams. If the teams are ok with giing a certain amount to the smaller teams, he'll add the same amount to the total money prize. I think while he has been forced to kinda save face, he's making too many sensible declarations in the last 12-24 hours for this not to be an avenue he's pursuing.

Or, he'll just shrug his shoulders when he can't change anything with the big teams and say... Look I've tried.

The question is, what actually will change?

For sure, it won't be Bernie paying...

Edited by Slackbladder, 02 November 2014 - 18:53.

[Guizotia]

Bernie and CVC took $500 million out of the sport(/business/entertainment show) last year alone.  

 

http://www.telegraph...ofits-flag.html

 

Talking about splitting the proportion of money given to the teams is just a distraction from this.

 

What he doesn't say is "we could just make the pot paid out to the teams bigger".  By tying the idea to some teams losing money he ensures that he says something that is a non-starter, so no risk of it happening.

[ardbeg]

Thread title should be "Bernie: 'probably may fault'"

Is it so hard to get a short quote like that right? 

[LuckyStrike1]

They could just split the FOM money evenly among all the teams. 

 

Seriously, who cares if the winner gets more than the others compared to creating a more healthy market for all the teams to survive in. 

 

The big teams will still have more money. They will still get rewarded for winning but the lesser teams has a more healthy balance sheet and don't have to rely on shady sponsorship deals and pay drivers. 

[JHSingo]

I'd like to know what this imposter has done with the real Bernie.

[Henri Greuter]

To some extend, there is one reason why I would absolutely love to see F1 collaps and fold down.

 

Bernie has in the past contributed so much to have sports cars racing being killed off in the early 90s when, thanks to Gp C rules the interest for it was as large as never been before. And he assisted and masterminded in the demise.

That alone would for me be a good reason to see F1 collapse. At long last that leach has finally seen the one thing he did to all other series he saw as a rival happen to his own brainchild. I would be so happy to see that happen to Bernie.

 

Having said that, there are probably more reasons why I would like F1 to get its act together again and become worth following again as intensely as I once did....

 

 

Henri

[Nathan]

Why doesn't Ferrari deserve more?  Look how many fans they attract.

 

Why doesn't Bernie deserve $500mln? He built it.  The entertainers still get far more.  Is the split different to other sports?

[JHSingo]

Why doesn't Ferrari deserve more?  Look how many fans they attract.

 

Why doesn't Bernie deserve $500mln? He built it.  The entertainers still get far more.  Is the split different to other sports?

 

Bernie has more than enough money to see out his remaining years in extreme comfort.

 

He should now be giving a bigger chunk of the money, and possible some of his own, to help protect teams in danger, unless he wants to have a lasting legacy as the man partly responsible for the death of F1.

[pdac]

Why doesn't Ferrari deserve more?  Look how many fans they attract.

 

Why doesn't Bernie deserve $500mln? He built it.  The entertainers still get far more.  Is the split different to other sports?

 

But it's never been tested was to what would happen if they were not there. Clearly there are a lot of fans that follow Ferrari, but if there were no Ferrari in F1 would they not follow F1 or would they align themselves to some other team? No one knows. So you can't say either way and if the current set up is not working, it's possibly worth trying something else (like not paying Ferrari more).

[Rocket73]

Why doesn't Ferrari deserve more?  Look how many fans they attract.

 

Why doesn't Bernie deserve $500mln? He built it.  The entertainers still get far more.  Is the split different to other sports?

 

Personally I think it's sick that Ferrari are so up themselves in thinking they 'deserve' more money. 

 

American football, the richest sport in the world, splits the revenue equally between all teams.

[HoldenRT]

There is no one one team or person bigger or more important than the collective whole.  That's true universally with everything but even in F1.

[LoginError]

So the posturing has begun. The teams don't offer a solution, they want someone else to step in, and someone else (cvc) wants the teams or the FIA to solve the situation. Bernie is right in the sense that the current structure of contracts doesn't allow a solution to happen. No one is willing to give up one iota. Even if the TV money is redistributed nothing will change in the long run unless a different structure between the different parties is established.

[Donka]

No, he says that because he works for someone, he made deals he wouldn't have made if it was his own business

I think that's partially true, we found out Ferrari was already getting a legacy payment as well as having a veto over new rules for years back.

 

I see it as CVC considering the legacy payments to teams in the new Concorde as an insurance policy to retain the big teams with the intent to float F1.  RedBull managed their $70m since they we're the sports current dominant team, and run 2 teams, ultimately CVC needs those 4 cars on the grid and paying that cash off the top ensured they would sign until 2020.

[milestone 11]

Coming up with totally different answers tonight. When Slater asked him if the teams had mentioned a boycott, he said, " no, they're lucky they didn't".

Edited by milestone 11, 02 November 2014 - 19:56.

[johnmhinds]

So, in other words, he is proposing that the teams' share of F1 revenue should be distributed among the teams differently, thus getting the teams to argue with each other over their own shares. Meanwhile, CVC's share of the F1 revenue...

 

Yup, deflecting everything away from himself and the other owners of the Formula One Group like he has always done. That is his job these days after all. 

 

They will do anything to keep their own massive share of the pie, even if it means fostering infighting between all the teams.

[Nathan]

Bernie has more than enough money to see out his remaining years in extreme comfort.

 

He should now be giving a bigger chunk of the money, and possible some of his own, to help protect teams in danger, unless he wants to have a lasting legacy as the man partly responsible for the death of F1.

 

F1 isn't going to die if the slowest three or four teams close down.  F1 may die if the fastest four decide to call it a day.

 

Red Bull, Ferrari, McLaren - they are all comfortable, what are they doing to help?

 

Bernie hasn't made it expensive to race in F1, the teams and FIA have.

 

I don't at all disagree with splitting the revenues equally, if you cap the number of teams, but in the same token I don't think it is going to make much of a difference to the viability of those at the back (example, Sauber's budget is probably what a Caterhams budget would be with equal revenue sharing, and where is Sauber?).  At the end of the day sponsorship is where most teams get the majority of their income from.  The fix is to reduce the cost of being competitive.

Edited by Nathan, 02 November 2014 - 23:01.

[Supertourer]

Mercedes and Red Bull are global multi billion dollar highly profitable companies, they are there to spend marketing budget in order to sell even more products, why do they need paying to be in F1 at all?

 

Nobody pays them to advertise on TV, posters or press.......

Edited by Supertourer, 03 November 2014 - 09:33.

[johnmhinds]

F1 isn't going to die if the slowest three or four teams close down.  F1 may die if the fastest four decide to call it a day.

 

Red Bull, Ferrari, McLaren - they are all comfortable, what are they doing to help?

 

Bernie hasn't made it expensive to race in F1, the teams and FIA have.

 

I don't at all disagree with splitting the revenues equally, if you cap the number of teams, but in the same token I don't think it is going to make much of a difference to the viability of those at the back (example, Sauber's budget is probably what a Caterhams budget would be with equal revenue sharing, and where is Sauber?).  At the end of the day sponsorship is where most teams get the majority of their income from.  The fix is to reduce the cost of being competitive.

 

The fix isn't doing one or the other, it's doing both, reduce the basic costs and spread the profits the sports makes out more fairly, the end result would be far more stable teams that can attract more investors and sponsors without the risk of them going under completely if those investors and sponsors pull out.

 

I also think they need to look at the issue of engine suppliers also owning teams and the issues that causes.

Mercedes has created a huge budget advantage for itself by having 3 other teams paying them the extreme amounts that are being quoted for these new engines.

Edited by johnmhinds, 03 November 2014 - 11:39.

[superden]

Yes Bernie, yes it is.

[Ricardo F1]

Stopped a protest didn't it . . . . they have to be more equitable, the grid looked a wee bit lonely yesterday IMHO . . . but F1 costs money, that will never change.

[ATM]

We'll just going to wait in order to see how did it actually stop it. 

Did he stop it by giving in, partially, to the teams' demands and injecting some more capital for them to live another day? good...we want teams to race. 

Did he stop it by making allusive threats? not that good...they'll come back at it again sooner or later. 

My guess it's percentage of both, iron fist and velvet glove. 

 

Anyway, just admitting that mistakes were made does not to a world of good. It's a start, true, but let's focus on how to actually solve the mess. I mean, let them focus, because I can't see any simple solution myself...worst one is pushing established teams against smaller teams...

[Timstr11]

Mercedes and Red Bull are global multi billion dollar highly profitable companies, they are there to spend marketing budget in order to sell even more products, why do they need paying to be in F1 at all?

 

Nobody pays them to advertise on TV, posters or press.......

 

FYI - Mercedes are getting peanuts compared to Ferrari and RedBull because when the new Concorde agreement was being negotiated, Mercedes was in the FOTA camp.

Bernie rewarded Ferrari and Redbull for breaking ranks with FOTA with a very fat yearly check rumored to be around 160 million USD for Ferrari and a bit less for RedBull.

[sopa]

F1 isn't going to die if the slowest three or four teams close down.  F1 may die if the fastest four decide to call it a day.

 

Red Bull, Ferrari, McLaren - they are all comfortable, what are they doing to help?

 

 

Well, if Mercedes, Ferrari, Red Bull and McLaren are the only teams, who survive, then I'd say F1 is pretty much dead. For a healthy racing series you need BOTH - both top teams and also good competent smaller teams in the lower spheres of the field.

[Nathan]

Well, and Wiliams!

 

I see your point which makes me think each manufacture should have a customer or satellite team.  Make it cheap.  Let manufactures contract it out to other race teams (eg. Manor, Carlin) It makes sense to use cars for two seasons versus just one.  It doesn't really appear Force India or Sauber are ever going to construct GP cars fit to regularly compete with the top three or four teams (unless they become adopted by a car manufacture), so does it really matter if the reason they are in 13th place is because they don't have the resources to do it alone, or because they are running last years Mercedes?  Is it worth the $50 million annual expense, and $40 million wind tunnels?

 

If a customer team wants to design and build their own car, that's fine, but it isn't feasible to keep the fans that expect to see ten teams blowing huge sums of money on designing and scratch building their own cars.

[OvDrone]

Bernie trying to save face is useless, hilarious, sad, ironic and adorable at the same time.

[Paul McLucas]

Is Bernie not well?  Maybe it's a deathbed confession

[Schumster]

Double points? F1 viewings going down the pan? F1 teams going down under? Engine noise not screaming? Some utterly atrocious tracks? Taking away, for UK viewers at least, F1 from FTA TV. And all he serves up is "it's all my fault"?

 

Utter bellend.

[jcpower13]

The right way to do the money is to have a total pot and give 66% of that to all teams equally, as a form of TV Rights and whatnot payment. Then take that remaining 33% and use that as prize money, so all teams get a piece of the pie but the top teams aren't overtly punished for winning all the time. Oh and maybe make the pot bigger too, half of the gargantuan profits Bernie and CVC make should suffice.

[SB]

F1 isn't going to die if the slowest three or four teams close down.  F1 may die if the fastest four decide to call it a day.

 

 

Like Martin Brundle has said in the US GP, if we dont have the small(er) teams then where can the new drivers got the first ride ?

 

Senna started his career in Toleman; Schmacher started his career in Jordan; Alonso started his career in Minardi. So what would happen if all those teams were not existed at that time ?

[Nemo1965]

Mercedes and Red Bull are global multi billion dollar highly profitable companies, they are there to spend marketing budget in order to sell even more products, why do they need paying to be in F1 at all?

 

Nobody pays them to advertise on TV, posters or press.......

 

But Red Bull and Ferrari and Mercedes ARE paid to advertise: by the public (who pays for pay-per-view or via cable-companies asking a membership), these companies ARE paid by FOM (even seperate from their actual results, Ferrari got more money in 2013 from FOM than two other teams that were kicking Ferrari's ass...). Especially Ferrari and Red Bull are multi billion dollar companies who are PAID to protect their monopoly.

[Kraken]

just give that huge junk of extra-money that Ferrari receives to the smaller teams .... win-win situation for the sport!

They're not alone though are they? McLaren and Red Bull get extra money to as far as I'm aware.

[Mauseri]

Bernie trying to save face is useless, hilarious, sad, ironic and adorable at the same time.

Bernie could easily tip the small teams a little to survive if he wanted. There is all kind of charity in the world but it is clearly not Bernie's thing. He is only willing to steal money from business.

Edited by Mauseri, 04 November 2014 - 08:45.

[Rob]

The teams should be getting equal amounts from a larger pot. The distribution is just distracting from the fact that CVC's share of the revenue is ridiculously large.

[Clatter]

 

Like Martin Brundle has said in the US GP, if we dont have the small(er) teams then where can the new drivers got the first ride ?

 

Senna started his career in Toleman; Schmacher started his career in Jordan; Alonso started his career in Minardi. So what would happen if all those teams were not existed at that time ?

They would have to start in the bigger teams. The existing driver pool won't last forever so replacement drivers would come from the lower divisions straight into a reasonably performing car rather than a back of the grid one. 

[billm99uk]

They would have to start in the bigger teams. The existing driver pool won't last forever so replacement drivers would come from the lower divisions straight into a reasonably performing car rather than a back of the grid one. 

 

Won't be the same drivers though. It'll either be absolute stand-outs in the lower formulas (Raikkonen, Verstappen) or those who came in through the big teams driver academies.

Edited by billm99uk, 04 November 2014 - 12:50.

[Clatter]

Won't be the same drivers though. It'll either be absolute stand-outs in the lower formulas (Raikkonen, Verstappen) or those who came in through the big teams driver academies.

Maybe not, but at the end of the day they only need as many drivers as there are seats available, and right now pay drivers often prevent more talented drivers from taking those lower placed seats anyway. There are a lot of good reasons why losing these teams would be bad for the sport, but I don't think this is one of them.