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The narrow working range of the brilliant minds


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#51 Kraken

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Posted 05 November 2014 - 12:31

Doesn't matter if someone wins a championship on double points or not. They're still WC and that's all that matters. The game is about winning within the framework of rules and regulations which are the same for all.

 

Also I think people are reading way too much into the phrasing of someone who is speaking in what isn't his native language.

 

The viewing figures for races after the WC is sewn up are dire so I don't blame them for trying something. The mistake they made was bringing it in in a year that had massive changes already. If the double point rules was in last year I bet we wouldn't have heard as many complaints.



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#52 Clatter

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Posted 05 November 2014 - 14:12

Doesn't matter if someone wins a championship on double points or not. They're still WC and that's all that matters. The game is about winning within the framework of rules and regulations which are the same for all.

 

Also I think people are reading way too much into the phrasing of someone who is speaking in what isn't his native language.

 

The viewing figures for races after the WC is sewn up are dire so I don't blame them for trying something. The mistake they made was bringing it in in a year that had massive changes already. If the double point rules was in last year I bet we wouldn't have heard as many complaints.

I bet we would. 



#53 Kraken

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Posted 05 November 2014 - 16:23

Really? I bet we wouldn't be hearing as many complaints this year if it was Lewis who was behind. I can't imagine that there would be as many people complaining last year if it meant the title went down to the last race with Seb still being able to lose it.

 

Bottom line is that the average punter doesn't bother watching if the title has already been decided and F1 can't support itself without the average punter being interested until the end. I bet the Abu Dhabi viewing figures will be far higher than last years finale.



#54 uffen

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Posted 05 November 2014 - 16:27

Well no, the purpose was to keep the championship alive as long as possible. Now, demonstrating their lack of foresight and recognising the unpopularity of the double points (90%+ against on here alone), we have a tight championship battle in which these points may directly alter the outcome as acknowledged as a potential negative of their introduction. Duh, I think we could all have told him that. Where that comes to Wolff preferring a Hamilton victory belongs in the assumption that Nico will need double points, which isn't a given yet.

Well yes. Giving 2x the points for one race certainly changes things. It has to. Just "keeping the championship alive as long as possible" is changing things. In any case, a terrible line from Wolff.



#55 uffen

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Posted 05 November 2014 - 16:32

Really? I bet we wouldn't be hearing as many complaints this year if it was Lewis who was behind. I can't imagine that there would be as many people complaining last year if it meant the title went down to the last race with Seb still being able to lose it.

 

Bottom line is that the average punter doesn't bother watching if the title has already been decided and F1 can't support itself without the average punter being interested until the end. I bet the Abu Dhabi viewing figures will be far higher than last years finale.

If this is indeed the case then F1 should not worry so much about "the average punter." Then we wouldn't have double points, DRS, dodgy tires (they're better this year), assigned numbers, and on and on. The average punter is too easily distracted by the next thing to come along and so we get an over-managed series full of things to "spice it up." Sad but true.



#56 Collombin

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Posted 05 November 2014 - 16:46

Really? I bet we wouldn't be hearing as many complaints this year if it was Lewis who was behind.


If Nico had dominated to the extent that Lewis has, then I disagree. It's the fact that by far the more deserving driver is still in danger of losing out that so many are up in arms about. Or am I being naïve to think that?

#57 7MGTEsup

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Posted 05 November 2014 - 16:47

If this is indeed the case then F1 should not worry so much about "the average punter." Then we wouldn't have double points, DRS, dodgy tires (they're better this year), assigned numbers, and on and on. The average punter is too easily distracted by the next thing to come along and so we get an over-managed series full of things to "spice it up." Sad but true.

 

But could formula 1 survive if it just catered to the real fans? What is the split of real fans (people who watch no matter who is winning) and the casual fans (people who only watch if there guy is winning)? If we are to believe what they are telling us the casual fans far out weigh the real fans or they wouldn't be messing with it all so much.



#58 mercedessurearepopularnow

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Posted 05 November 2014 - 17:27

If Nico had dominated to the extent that Lewis has, then I disagree. It's the fact that by far the more deserving driver is still in danger of losing out that so many are up in arms about. Or am I being naïve to think that?

The problem is the general consensus going into every season is that Hamilton is so good he supposedly "deserves" to win the Championship.



#59 Kraken

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Posted 05 November 2014 - 17:50

If this is indeed the case then F1 should not worry so much about "the average punter." Then we wouldn't have double points, DRS, dodgy tires (they're better this year), assigned numbers, and on and on. The average punter is too easily distracted by the next thing to come along and so we get an over-managed series full of things to "spice it up." Sad but true.

Then F1 needs to learn to operate on a far lower budget as I've said many times before it can't exist on the money it can generate purely from motorsport fans.



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#60 Clatter

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Posted 05 November 2014 - 18:39

Really? I bet we wouldn't be hearing as many complaints this year if it was Lewis who was behind. I can't imagine that there would be as many people complaining last year if it meant the title went down to the last race with Seb still being able to lose it.

 

Bottom line is that the average punter doesn't bother watching if the title has already been decided and F1 can't support itself without the average punter being interested until the end. I bet the Abu Dhabi viewing figures will be far higher than last years finale.

The complaints started before a wheel was turned in anger. People have not waited until the last race to see who would be affected and then started complaining.



#61 Kraken

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Posted 05 November 2014 - 18:42

The complaints started before a wheel was turned in anger. People have not waited until the last race to see who would be affected and then started complaining.

I didn't say there wouldn't be complaints just that there wouldn't be as many. This isn't the only motorsport forum on the 'net either.



#62 BullHead

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Posted 05 November 2014 - 19:05

I think it is more the realisation of what could possibly happen, no matter who the drivers are, that is dawning on some more to join the argument. It is what a lot of us feared from the outset, but as I said somewhere in this thread >http://forums.autosp...-season-merged/ (started December last year BTW) it wouldn't be until a doomsday scenario is actually upon the standings that more would see the daftness of the idea, especially the general media, who in turn will point out to the 'general punter' what a load of rubbish it is.

 

To say the game is about winning within the framework is completely missing the point IMO.

This is the first time that F1 has decided that finishing in a certain position in different races does not score the same points. Ergo, the team / driver acheievements are not being measured in a consistent manner, and therefore the standings after a double point race does not reflect any true order.


Edited by BullHead, 05 November 2014 - 19:10.


#63 KnucklesAgain

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Posted 05 November 2014 - 19:49

"The average punter" is well aware that in football you don't suddenly get 6 points in the last round, in skiing they don't substract a second by lottery, in golf the drives at the last hole don't count double, in tennis the points don't count double in the last set (and tie break is different, exists for necessity, and avoiding it would be preferred (5th set in grand slam)). And "the average punter" is perfectly able to conclude what they are trying to do in F1 and that it is stupid.


Edited by KnucklesAgain, 05 November 2014 - 19:50.


#64 Clatter

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Posted 05 November 2014 - 20:20

I didn't say there wouldn't be complaints just that there wouldn't be as many. This isn't the only motorsport forum on the 'net either.

I know what you said and I disagree with you. You seem to think the complaining is based on the current score card, but it's not. The complaining started as soon as it was announced, long before anyone knew who might be the winners and losers.



#65 P123

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Posted 05 November 2014 - 21:03

I didn't say there wouldn't be complaints just that there wouldn't be as many. This isn't the only motorsport forum on the 'net either.


Well have a read here. There were far many more complaints way back 'then', so your assumption is incorrect. Unless you can show us there was an overall positive reaction to the double points elsewhere, what with this not being the only forum on the net and all....

http://forums.autosp...+double +points

#66 Collombin

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Posted 05 November 2014 - 21:18

in skiing they don't substract a second by lottery


No, however they have used far worse point systems than Abu Double, but seem to have learned from it. Hopefully F1 will do the same.

#67 ensign14

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Posted 05 November 2014 - 22:03

Really? I bet we wouldn't be hearing as many complaints this year if it was Lewis who was behind. I can't imagine that there would be as many people complaining last year if it meant the title went down to the last race with Seb still being able to lose it.

 

If you look at this thread, you'll see that the North Korean levels of unanimity were being poured down against the rule before 2014 had even dawned.


 



#68 uffen

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Posted 06 November 2014 - 15:42

Then F1 needs to learn to operate on a far lower budget as I've said many times before it can't exist on the money it can generate purely from motorsport fans.

Yes, precisely. F1 has survived from (for argument's sake) 1950 to 2014. In its current form it is on the edge of not surviving. I am all for F1 working with less money. Those huge hospitality buildings, race tracks with white elephant facilities, beaming the car's telemetry around the world and back to home base, and on and on. It's just car racing, for goodness sake, and as much as I love it, it has grown too big and too precious for its own good.



#69 ardbeg

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Posted 06 November 2014 - 21:20

I've heard that next season there will be a "double or nothing" on the podium. The winner choose heads or tails and Bernie tosses the coin.