31 replies to this topic

[RaySpace]

 The Science Behind Your Formula One Opinions!

 

Hi all!   

 

I recently read an article about how our minds deal with facts. As a true fan, I immediately considered the implications for F1 discussion

 

http://www.boston.co...facts_backfire/

 

Our minds are often actively hostile towards facts that contradict our existing opinions. It goes beyond ignoring inconvenient truths, when we are confronted by the fact that we were wrong we often become more confident that we were right!   

 

Consider this forum whilst reading these excerpts:

 

Researchers found that when misinformed people ... were exposed to corrected facts in news stories, they rarely changed their minds. In fact, they often became even more strongly set in their beliefs. Facts, they found, were not curing misinformation. Like an underpowered antibiotic, facts could actually make misinformation even stronger.

 

If we believe something about the world, we are more likely to passively accept as truth any information that confirms our beliefs, and actively dismiss information that doesn’t. This is known as “motivated reasoning".

 

They already have beliefs, a set of facts lodged in their minds (and) in the presence of the correct information, such people react very, very differently than the merely uninformed. Instead of changing their minds to reflect the correct information, they can entrench themselves even deeper. “The general idea is that it’s absolutely threatening to admit you’re wrong."

 

 

One of the things I love about F1 is that its ambiguity constantly challenges my judgement  . The competition exists on a thousand vectors, subject to a million variables. We are forever being presented with partial glimpses, which is endlessly fascinating  . However, that same trait makes F1 particularly prone to being miscomprehended. We are inundated with lap charts, team radio, commentary, forum threads... and the quantity of this inconclusive, contextual information makes it easier to A) get something wrong and B) find something else to later defend an error:

 

 

This effect is only heightened by the information glut, which offers — alongside an unprecedented amount of good information — endless rumors, misinformation, and questionable variations on the truth. In other words, it’s never been easier for people to be wrong, and at the same time feel more certain that they’re right.

 

 

So what lies in the heart of the entrenched poster, whose opinions stand still as contradicting information washes over them? Why do they struggle so much when a team-mate battle, a qualifying session, a WDC challenge does not go as expected? The suggestion is that it's driven by low self-esteem; that there's a comfort in the dogma:

 

People who were given a self-affirmation exercise were more likely to consider new information than people who had not. In other words, if you feel good about yourself, you’ll listen — and if you feel insecure or threatened, you won’t.

 

 

So there you have it folks, a cutaway diagram of this forum's psychological power unit   

 

I hope that was interesting to some of you, it certainly was for me   

 

[TheUltimateWorrier]

 

Why is Rosberg blow-drying a frying pan?

[apoka]

Only 1% of what we communicate here are facts. And even those are sometimes made up (like what I just said).

[Lights]

This thread is nonsense. I'm not misinformed, and won't change any of my opinions because of this.. And I'm not in a personal crisis at all.

[camberley]

great thread RaySpace -

[Spillage]

 

One of the things I love about F1 is that its ambiguity constantly challenges my judgement  . The competition exists on a thousand vectors, subject to a million variables. We are forever being presented with partial glimpses, which is endlessly fascinating  .

 

This gets right to the heart for my love of F1, and what makes it so damn interesting to debate about online. There are just about more variables than in any other sport - drivers perform differently from year to year, differently in different cars, differently under pressure... really, I'm never sure I'm right about a particular driver, let alone anyone else.

[scheivlak]

Merge with the 'Where will Alonso go for 2015' thread.

 

 

[Seanspeed]

Don't try and talk to me with your fancy schmancy educated speak.

Edited by Seanspeed, 06 November 2014 - 22:02.

[OO7]

 

 

Researchers found that when misinformed people ... were exposed to corrected facts in news stories,

That may be the crux right there.

[DrivenF1]

Andy Murray hates English people..

 

Hamilton was punished in 2011 by the stewards because he's black...or was it because he liked Ali G? Whatever it was it's true.

 

And Alonso is going to Mercedes. Some person on twitter said they'd delete their account if they were wrong...

 

No 'theory' can make these untrue.

[pingu666]

your only as good as your last race in f1, for the most part.

[jonpollak]

So very true Ray. I have found that many F1 fans are borderline OCD, have a variant of Aspergers syndrome or are on teetering on the Autism spectrum and need a certain order of results to validate their opinions to help them put everything in their place. Jp

[Retrofly]

If people tell em facts I change my opinion, I belive in the scientific method, that not everythign is set in stone and I make judgements based on as much information as I can gather.

 

There are things that will always be opinion based, people will try and use facts to change peoples opinion, like who the bets driver is ect. But thats subjective.

 

Facts are facts, opinions are opinions, they are both different yet influential on eachother.

[BillBald]

If people tell em facts I change my opinion, I belive in the scientific method, that not everythign is set in stone and I make judgements based on as much information as I can gather.

 

There are things that will always be opinion based, people will try and use facts to change peoples opinion, like who the bets driver is ect. But thats subjective.

 

Facts are facts, opinions are opinions, they are both different yet influential on eachother.

 

It's my understanding that scientists are no better than F1 fans, they cling to their old theories even when they've been disproved by facts.

[Astro]

Good reading, thanks 

 

So what lies in the heart of the entrenched poster, whose opinions stand still as contradicting information washes over them?

 

 

I don't know, but as they mentioned, the information that we get is already piss poor or is too technical to make anything of it. And then we still screen out the few pieces that don't fit our Britney story. It would be cool to have a thread-game where anyone who writes a non factual opinion gets thrown out for a week. At least, it would make people THINK hard to defend his favorite Britney. I would be surprise if it reaches page 2. 

Edited by Astro, 06 November 2014 - 23:23.

[MLC]

Only 1% of what we communicate here are facts. And even those are sometimes made up (like what I just said).

 

 

It turns out that 63% of all statistics are just made up.

[sennafan24]

 

So what lies in the heart of the entrenched poster, whose opinions stand still as contradicting information washes over them? Why do they struggle so much when a team-mate battle, a qualifying session, a WDC challenge does not go as expected? The suggestion is that it's driven by low self-esteem; that there's a comfort in the dogma:

Considering how often I get things wrong. I have enough experience to overcome disappointment 

 

I found the sentence of "so what lies in the heart of the entrenched poster whose opinions stand still as contradicting information washes over them?" very interesting. 

 

Overall, a very good post   

Edited by sennafan24, 06 November 2014 - 23:37.

[sennafan24]

So very true Ray. I have found that many F1 fans are borderline OCD, have a variant of Aspergers syndrome or are on teetering on the Autism spectrum and need a certain order of results to validate their opinions to help them put everything in their place. Jp

Depends on what you mean by "need a certain order of results".

 

You are going to pick up on trends whilst observing F1. Such as driver X generally being good on a certain tyre compound, whilst driver Y generally struggling on another tyre compound. Of course, these trends can be broken, and are not definitive characteristics. If a observer cannot fathom that such trends can be broken, then you probably have a point.

 

I actually find F1 fans to be function quite normally in comparison to fans of other interests. 

[Collombin]

It's my understanding that scientists are no better than F1 fans, they cling to their old theories even when they've been disproved by facts.

Then the people to which you refer are the exact antithesis of scientists.

[Tombstone]

It turns out that 63% of all statistics are just made up.

 

I think you'll find it's 42.7%.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And 97.3%. One of the best pages for statistical analysis is: http://www.onlinemat...ath-quotes.html

Edited by Tombstone, 07 November 2014 - 08:23.

[sopa]

I am always fascinated, how there can be so many different views and opinions. Even if people are long-term F1 fans, know already lots of things and in some basic things may even agree. But in details still see things differently. So this is the human mind - people like to seek for truth, but it is blurry and hard to reach. And around this we create different perspectives on what is viewed to be closest to "truth".

 

There may be facts, but they do not have the capability to describe everything, including driving skills, which in itself is very artistic and often hard to measure. Also there is the interpretation of facts, because facts in itself in isolation do not mean anything - we need to put them into context to gain some understanding. But which context? Well, herein lies the problem...

[ollebompa]

I think you'll find it's 42.7%.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And 97.3%. One of the best pages for statistical analysis is: http://www.onlinemat...ath-quotes.html

I think you'll find that statistics are made up 50% of the time all the time.

[Nonesuch]

So what lies in the heart of the entrenched poster, whose opinions stand still as contradicting information washes over them? Why do they struggle so much when a team-mate battle, a qualifying session, a WDC challenge does not go as expected? The suggestion is that it's driven by low self-esteem; that there's a comfort in the dogma:

 
I wonder how that relates to the comical tendency of some to speak of 'we' when it comes to discussing the latest news of team X or Y.

 

It would also be interesting to look at the apparent desire of some to discuss how they 'feel' the game or race will play out. Those feelings are obviously complete bogus, but it's very common in all kinds of sports for fans to not just make a guess for the sake of it, but to go over things in detail. Over the summer we had quite a few race-threads filled with fans who 'knew' or 'felt' that Hamilton would 'definitely' have a technical problem. It was as though they were preparing themselves for the possibility.
 

It's my understanding that scientists are no better than F1 fans, they cling to their old theories even when they've been disproved by facts.

 
'Scientists' come in many different forms, of course - not only depending on their field but also their form of employment, and as always Upton Sinclair's famous quip applies to one degree or another: 'It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it.'

[NoSanityClause]

That's a huge pile of BS you wrote there.

 

Ok, now I will read it.

[Okyo]

Brilliant post that i would hope people would read and understand. I'm not talking about this forum alone, but everyone around the world. We got too many people believing, arguing, fighting and in extreme cases dieing for these kind of beliefs based on no facts.

[ensign14]

So very true Ray. I have found that many F1 fans are borderline OCD, have a variant of Aspergers syndrome or are on teetering on the Autism spectrum and need a certain order of results to validate their opinions to help them put everything in their place. Jp

 

Or, in short, they are "male".

[SlickMick]

I think it's human nature, conditioning, education, affecting people's willingness to accept facts counter to their pre-existing beliefs (opinions?) or desires. That's fine, I can appreciate that, despite not liking it (try discussing Darwinism with people who believe in intelligent design).

What really irritates is people's insistence that their own opinions are indeed facts. When people bother to point this out, then a counter argument emerges, without ever accepting the original premise was purely an opinion. Very few posts bother to call this out anymore because it happens so frequently.

Personally, if I ever use "it's a fact" it is meant to be sarcastic, in full knowledge that people wont get it, and frankly to piss people off or cause a stir. If that makes me a troll then....

Bottom line is a culture emerges on boards like these. If it gets too much then people start ignoring certain posters, then certain threads, then leave the board forever. 

I love F1 but cannot understand how some people have become so "invested" that they treat their own opinions as "beliefs" which are then presented as "facts". As pointed out above, it really does appear unhealthy.

Blah blah blah, too deep, going to the pub now.  

SlickTrollMick

Edited by SlickMick, 08 November 2014 - 10:49.

[sopa]

I think it's human nature, conditioning, education, affecting people's willingness to accept facts counter to their pre-existing beliefs (opinions?) or desires. That's fine, I can appreciate that, despite not liking it (try discussing Darwinism with people who believe in intelligent design).

What really irritates is people's insistence that their own opinions are indeed facts. When people bother to point this out, then a counter argument emerges, without ever accepting the original premise was purely an opinion. Very few posts bother to call this out anymore because it happens so frequently.

Personally, if I ever use "it's a fact" it is meant to be sarcastic, in full knowledge that people wont get it, and frankly to piss people off or cause a stir. If that makes me a troll then....

Bottom line is a culture emerges on boards like these. If it gets too much then people start ignoring certain posters, then certain threads, then leave the board forever. 

I love F1 but cannot understand how some people have become so "invested" that they treat their own opinions as "beliefs" which are then presented as "facts". As pointed out above, it really does appear unhealthy.

Blah blah blah, too deep, going to the pub now.  

SlickTrollMick

 

Sadly this is so in any field of life. Sometimes I have thought F1 Bulletin Board is like politics.  Each fan group is like a political party with an agenda and that's how we debate year-after-year with arguments going in circles. 

[Pothead4Philosopher]

So very true Ray. I have found that many F1 fans are borderline OCD, have a variant of Aspergers syndrome or are on teetering on the Autism spectrum and need a certain order of results to validate their opinions to help them put everything in their place. Jp

 

Oh my,

 

Now why would you equate any real mental disorder with the simple stupidity emanating out of deep pool of ignorance that is the dwelling-place of all and any (F1) fanatic(s)?

 

The members of the first group have observable issues to deal with -- and sometimes even a chance to get better, while the folks in the latter one decided to become some weird moronic followers of voluntary blindness of mind religion. Some call it the FUBAR-disorder, but the members self simply know it as THE ORDER.

[jonpollak]

Or, in short, they are "male".

 

 

Interestingly... Not in my experience !

Back in the mid 90's through the mid 2000's I hosted a discussion site that contained an interesting melange of fans from around the world.A large majority of the female participants, most of whom were British, American and German, announced themselves as 'Schumacher fans'.These  contributors would constantly defend actions that were globally derided as ethically abhorrent because it suited their continuing need for order. During these time I would invite said members to join me at various races around the world and we would meet up at points during the weekend.I noted that these ladies were either single,or accompanied by their fathers. It was patently obvious that these females had an ingrained NEED for a fastidious and anticipated result that kept their 'ducks in a row'. If the results of a race were contrary to their desire it precipitated a glazed and discomforting effect that made them sullen and distracted to the point of alienation and depression that was impossible to dissuade.

 

Oh my,

 

Now why would you equate any real mental disorder with the simple stupidity emanating out of deep pool of ignorance that is the dwelling-place of all and any (F1) fanatic(s)?

 

 

Because it is all part of my experience conversing and relating to racing fans...that's why.

 

Jp

(edited to kindly answer the Pothead)

Edited by jonpollak, 08 November 2014 - 12:37.

[EvilWarMachine]

Nobody likes to be proved wrong, especially when it's a long held belief in something. I guess it's a pride thing.

But most reasonable people will admit they're wrong after some time of reflection.

[ensign14]

Nobody likes to be proved wrong, especially when it's a long held belief in something. I guess it's a pride thing.

But most reasonable people will admit they're wrong after some time of reflection.

 

But only if they are actually wrong.  I wouldn't know what that's like.