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Marussia F1 team fold


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#1 LORDBYRON

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Posted 24 October 2014 - 19:45

More teams it seems with unpaid bills 

 
 the minimum cars on the grid is meant to be 20 ? 
 
There car teams may be here sooner than any one thought
 

 

 

 

http://www.motorspor...g-us-gp-reports



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#2 charly0418

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Posted 24 October 2014 - 19:50

More teams it seems with unpaid bills 

 
 the minimum cars on the grid is meant to be 20 ? 
 
There car teams may be here sooner than any one thought
 

 

 

 

http://www.motorspor...g-us-gp-reports

 

the rest of the season can be done with 10 cars, it doesn't matter how many teams go bankrupt. The minimum is for the start of the season



#3 pdac

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Posted 24 October 2014 - 20:04

the rest of the season can be done with 10 cars, it doesn't matter how many teams go bankrupt. The minimum is for the start of the season

 

Does it not affect the contract that the commercial rights holder has with the promoters? I would have thought the tracks might be expecting to have a certain minimum number of cars at their events.



#4 Fastcake

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Posted 24 October 2014 - 20:24

The contract between FOM and the FIA requires a certain number of cars, apparently twenty, to be entered for each race. If Bernie can't guarantee a full grid, he'll have far bigger problems than the contracts with race promoters.

 

For all the talk of three car teams, it's impossible to implement it by the time of next weekend, and besides this season's sporting regulations which require unanimous consent to change, only allow two cars per team. With the amount of teams in trouble at the moment, if things take a turn for the even worse the entire sport could be in the ****.



#5 scheivlak

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Posted 24 October 2014 - 20:26

Does it not affect the contract that the commercial rights holder has with the promoters? I would have thought the tracks might be expecting to have a certain minimum number of cars at their events.

It's beyond ridiculous that we are all just guessing about these things. I don 't think there is any other sport that has such a lack of transparency about some rather basic conditions of the competition as F1. 



#6 Murl

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Posted 24 October 2014 - 20:29

It's beyond ridiculous that we are all just guessing about these things. I don 't think there is any other sport that has such a lack of transparency about some rather basic conditions of the competition as F1. 

 

 

F1 is not a sport.



#7 pacificquay

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Posted 24 October 2014 - 20:29

I believe the minimum is 18



#8 sabjit

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Posted 24 October 2014 - 20:35

F1 is not a sport.


I've read a lot of very ill thought out posts on the internet today, this is the most offensive if them.

#9 pdac

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Posted 24 October 2014 - 20:44

I've read a lot of very ill thought out posts on the internet today, this is the most offensive if them.

 

That's a bit unfair. Really, F1 is not a sport.



#10 Fastcake

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Posted 24 October 2014 - 20:46

It's beyond ridiculous that we are all just guessing about these things. I don 't think there is any other sport that has such a lack of transparency about some rather basic conditions of the competition as F1. 

 

Amen to that. FIFA may be bad, but at least they're fully open about the fact they're as bent as a suitcase full of nine bob notes, a rolex watch and an all-expenses paid trip to Barbados.



#11 Knot

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Posted 24 October 2014 - 20:47

That's a bit unfair. Really, F1 is not a sport.

 

It's quite clear, then, that it is a mobile bakery.



#12 pdac

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Posted 24 October 2014 - 20:56

It's quite clear, then, that it is a mobile bakery.

 

Well, I've heard they have doughnuts.



#13 travbrad

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Posted 24 October 2014 - 20:58

They need an advance on that WCC money for 9th place.  Any idea how much money that's worth?



#14 TimRTC

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Posted 24 October 2014 - 21:00

Well, I've heard they have doughnuts.

 

I thought they were banned for the sake of sportsmanship?



#15 LORDBYRON

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Posted 24 October 2014 - 21:12

With Caterham getting permitted to skip US, Brazil  only leaves 20 cars to start for the next two



#16 george1981

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Posted 24 October 2014 - 21:29

They need an advance on that WCC money for 9th place.  Any idea how much money that's worth?

 

I don't know how much that's worth but the Enstone team received an advance a few years back so it's not unheard of.



#17 Knot

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Posted 24 October 2014 - 21:35

These two teams need to be put out of their misery.

 

This is starting to reflect poorly on F1.



#18 MikeV1987

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Posted 24 October 2014 - 21:39

F1 is not a sport.

“There are only three sports: bullfighting, motor racing, and mountaineering; all the rest are merely games.”

- Ernest Hemingway



#19 pdac

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Posted 24 October 2014 - 21:41

They need an advance on that WCC money for 9th place.  Any idea how much money that's worth?

 

 Maybe $18m


Edited by pdac, 24 October 2014 - 21:42.


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#20 RottenAli

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Posted 24 October 2014 - 22:33

Stupid rules and bad promotion routes are the core problems that needed better care years ago and these issues are finally coming home to roost.

Maybe the answer is to again allow F2 (now GP2) cars to compete to make up the numbers to a nice amount closer to a grid size of 26 cars.

#21 KnucklesAgain

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Posted 24 October 2014 - 22:42

“There are only three sports: bullfighting, motor racing, and mountaineering; all the rest are merely games.”

- Ernest Hemingway

 

 

I don't think Hemingway is alive :)



#22 johnmhinds

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Posted 24 October 2014 - 22:45

Stupid rules and bad promotion routes are the core problems that needed better care years ago and these issues are finally coming home to roost.

Maybe the answer is to again allow F2 (now GP2) cars to compete to make up the numbers to a nice amount closer to a grid size of 26 cars.

 

Fixing stupid rules with stupider ideas sounds like an awesome plan...(F1 doesn't need to replace poorly funded teams with quasi GP2 teams with no funds) but that kind of idiocy is exactly what i'd expect from F1 at this point.

 

Everyone in F1 needs a kick up the behind so that they finally have some serious talks about the money distribution in the sport.


Edited by johnmhinds, 24 October 2014 - 22:47.


#23 OvDrone

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Posted 24 October 2014 - 23:01

I don't think Hemingway is alive :)

 

S6E5qq9.jpg



#24 Massa_f1

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Posted 24 October 2014 - 23:11

It's not very surprising F1 needs to take a look at itself as to how it operates and treats teams lower down the gird.

 

I can easily see an 18 car grid next year,

 

Will the general fan care, I doubt it. Just means other teams will take up the back row of the grid, and finish last in GP. My betting would be STR and Force India become back of the field teams in 2015. If others can't make it.



#25 LeClerc

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Posted 24 October 2014 - 23:27

It's quite clear, then, that it is a mobile bakery.

It used to be a pure sport, say pre-1968. Now it is a clever show, with quite a respectable turnover.



#26 Xpat

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Posted 24 October 2014 - 23:31

Pull this again in the US, specially in Texas, and Bernie won't get out alive.

 

 



#27 pdac

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Posted 24 October 2014 - 23:45

Really, one of the stupidest policies of F1 is to only paying prize money to 10 teams when there are more competing. I can't imagine why anyone would enter F1 whilst there are 10 others already there - you'd have to fund two years out of your own pockets and, unless they're deep, the chances are slim that you'd make it to the top 10 by then. And it's not like there are many opportunities to make money elsewhere as Bernie has taken most for himself.

 

If they won't agree a budget cut, then the other teams should have the prize fund split equally between entrants, with a small percentage reserved for rewarding, say, the top 3 or 5 a bit more. And the money should be paid immediately at the end of the season.



#28 Disgrace

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Posted 25 October 2014 - 00:23

These two teams need to be put out of their misery.

 

This is starting to reflect poorly on F1.

 

Perhaps F1 should be put out of it's misery. It's starting to reflect poorly on passionate, professional teams that simply want to go racing.



#29 chipmcdonald

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Posted 25 October 2014 - 01:35

I paid good money in 2005 to see an F1 race and there were only 6 cars starting.  "They" didn't care then, now is no different.  The 1% live in a different world.  At some point things will no longer work.



#30 Myrvold

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Posted 25 October 2014 - 01:36

I believe the minimum is 18

Nope. 20. Min 20, max 26.



#31 Murl

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Posted 25 October 2014 - 02:08

I've read a lot of very ill thought out posts on the internet today, this is the most offensive if them.

 

Not sure why you find it offensive.

It is clear to most of us fans that it is more of a circus than anything. It even had a ruling in India to that effect.

 

It isn't meant as an insult F1. It is just an observation of what it is.

 

You don't have to not like it because it is all showbiz.

Plenty of people like wrestling and all that drama too.



#32 Murl

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Posted 25 October 2014 - 02:09

I don't think Hemingway is alive :)

 

Mountaineering is another circus these days, times change.



#33 Nonesuch

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Posted 25 October 2014 - 06:53

F1 is not a sport.

 

David Coulthard once said that 'F1 is too much of a business to be a sport, but too much of a sport to be a business' (slight paraphrase).

 

Or, as Mercedes' Paddy Lowe said earlier this year: 'We were pleased to put on a good show in Bahrain and (...). The fans in China are always very enthusiastic, so hopefully we can give them some more entertainment this weekend.'

 

In some sense that applies to a lot of other high-profile sports: sport, business, and entertainment all mixed into one.

 

It's not all business though; most of them are also quite clever when it comes to offloading their costs onto the unsuspecting public, mostly in the case of stadiums, tracks and other venues.

 

Perhaps F1 should be put out of it's misery. It's starting to reflect poorly on passionate, professional teams that simply want to go racing.

 

Simply wanting to go racing is nice, but that doesn't excuse these teams from paying their bills.

 

There are definitely problems in the way F1 handles its FOM income. But it's not as if that came as a surprise to these teams. It might have in 2010, when the FIA in characteristic fashion bungled the budget-cap idea, but not in 2014.


Edited by Nonesuch, 25 October 2014 - 06:53.


#34 Brazzers

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Posted 25 October 2014 - 06:58

Let the weak ones die. 



#35 Mat13

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Posted 25 October 2014 - 07:52

Let the weak ones die.


Yep, and before long we'll end up with 14 cars on the grid, four of which are owned by the same company. Great idea.

#36 F1matt

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Posted 25 October 2014 - 08:08

F1 has adopted the WWE's stance of "sports entertainment".

f1 stopped being a sport years ago, when you can get a drive before you have left school because your dad was a driver and an energy drink company thinks you fit their profile, or your family has government connections to bank roll your drive while the people in the country suffer poverty, or your dad is big in the city of London add that to the fact if you want to overtake someone you ask your engineer, wait for the beep then press a button, or if you aren't as quick as the guy in front ask your team for suggestions....
I could go on but I depress myself, thank god for historic racing and a reasonable motorway system so I can get to watch them at tilke free tracks!








After saying that I do hope Marussia and Caterham get a reprieve, just for the employees, horrible time to lose employment for people with families with christmas around the corner.

Edited by F1matt, 25 October 2014 - 08:10.


#37 Mat13

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Posted 25 October 2014 - 08:15

Very true. I don't have much patience for Caterham as a team; they've essentially replaced HRT as the back of the grid space fillers, despite having been around for just as long as marussia, who at now scoring points. I felt sorry for the employees of HRT, and I feel sorry for the people at Caterham now. Especially as it doesn't look like they know any more than I do in regards to what will happen, which is naff all.

#38 Brazzers

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Posted 25 October 2014 - 08:23

Yep, and before long we'll end up with 14 cars on the grid, four of which are owned by the same company. Great idea.

 

If I don't have money to buy a Ferrari I don't endlessly complain about how expensive it is or not. The bottom line is the company doesn't adjust their prices, it's what it is and up to me to make ends meet. 

 

F1 has always been expensive anything to think likewise is naive. Don't buy it if you can't afford it. 



#39 F1matt

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Posted 25 October 2014 - 08:27

If I don't have money to buy a Ferrari I don't endlessly complain about how expensive it is or not. The bottom line is the company doesn't adjust their prices, it's what it is and up to me to make ends meet.

F1 has always been expensive anything to think likewise is naive. Don't buy it if you can't afford it.





You might not be able to buy a Ferrari but you can aspire to own one, work harder or smarter, save and you can own one. F1 is different as teams can't make money in the business model that F1 operates while the promoters daughter can spend a million quid on a bath made of marble by fairies in wonderland. Go figure.

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#40 ExFlagMan

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Posted 25 October 2014 - 08:30

Let the weak ones die.

Didn't someone once say that about Jaguar F1 and Minardi - I wonder what happened to them...

Edited by ExFlagMan, 25 October 2014 - 08:30.


#41 Mat13

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Posted 25 October 2014 - 08:42

If I don't have money to buy a Ferrari I don't endlessly complain about how expensive it is or not. The bottom line is the company doesn't adjust their prices, it's what it is and up to me to make ends meet.

F1 has always been expensive anything to think likewise is naive. Don't buy it if you can't afford it.


All that does is illustrate a problem with F1, not the teams that want to compete. What would you say if in ten years, Mclaren, Ferrari, Mercedes and Red Bull start struggling? Let them die? And replace them with what? Just because F1 is 'the pinnacle' of Motorsport, doesn't mean that there will always be an endless queue of people wanting in. There's a reason Toyota, Audi, Porsche etc are in different formulas, and it's arrogant to expect them or anyone else to be begging to be let in just because the space may become available. My point was a selfish one, to be fair, but I was concerned where it leaves us as spectators, not the teams who fail. Plenty of failed F1 teams are doing fine right now, Jaguar, BMW and the like, but small grids are not something that appeals to me.

#42 Kristian

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Posted 25 October 2014 - 08:58

Its just been confirmed that Marussia will miss the US GP, with special dispensation from Bernie (SSN)


Edited by Kristian, 25 October 2014 - 08:58.


#43 wj_gibson

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Posted 25 October 2014 - 09:30

18 cars, then. The lowest number of entrants since 1996.

#44 SteF1an

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Posted 25 October 2014 - 09:38

18 cars, then. The lowest number of entrants since 1996.

Since Monaco 2005



#45 DutchQuicksilver

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Posted 25 October 2014 - 09:38

Well, time for three car teams then for next season.



#46 BullHead

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Posted 25 October 2014 - 09:42

It's a depressing state of affairs.

3 car teams and double points races.

I'll not be watching next year, I'll go and follow some motorsport instead.


Edited by BullHead, 25 October 2014 - 09:43.


#47 ensign14

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Posted 25 October 2014 - 09:45

If I don't have money to buy a Ferrari I don't endlessly complain about how expensive it is or not.

 

Imagine though that the Ferrari costs £1m.  You save up £250k to buy it.  Then a bloke with a Veyron gets given £5m so he buys it instead.  And for the temerity in trying to get involved, you are charged £500k for a 2CV.



#48 noikeee

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Posted 25 October 2014 - 10:01

In a way it's amazing both teams lasted this long, given they entered with the promise of a budget cap that never happened.

 

I don't want 3rd cars because they're a slippery slope into DTM territory, but frankly I'd rather have them than a grid of 18. That's really poor numbers. Let Ferrari, Mercedes, McLaren, Red Bull field a 3rd one next year and we'd be with a far more respectable grid of 22.

 

I'm wondering how will qualifying work in Austin, too. Does only the bottom two cars get knocked out in Q1?



#49 wj_gibson

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Posted 25 October 2014 - 10:04

Since Monaco 2005


BAR *entered* the Monaco GP in 2005, they just weren't allowed to take part.

Whereas once Forti vanished there really were only 18 entrants.

#50 dweller23

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Posted 25 October 2014 - 10:09

BAR *entered* the Monaco GP in 2005, they just weren't allowed to take part.

Whereas once Forti vanished there really were only 18 entrants.

Fairly sure that after Forti left, the field was down to 20 from 22. 18 or less entrants didn't happen since San Marino 1982.