35 replies to this topic

[kenkip]

I dont know how many of you are on twitter and follow Daniel Ricciardo.If not,there is a great conversation between him,Felix Da Costa and Carlin racing concerning him running a one off race next year in Macau.Now,obviously I don't know how serious they are but Danny Ric sounds very enthusiastic about it,even saying he would gang up a few more F1 drivers to race there.

It got me thinking,can they do this?I am assuming F1 teams have tight contracts on what you can and cannot race competitively and would Bernie,being the selfish prick he is really allow this?Wouldn't it give awesome publicity for an non F1 event using F1 drivers which goes against everything Bernie stands for?Am I over thinking this?

Thoughts?

 

PS I would love for the drivers to have a go in spec racing cars around Macau!Separate the boys from the men!

[RedRabbit]

Yes. The schedules are so busy that they don't normally, and teams prefer that they don't as the cars aren't as safe (see Kubica's rally accident), but it's certainly possible.

 

Edit: see also Race of Champions every year - various drivers from various categories including F1

Edited by RedRabbit, 13 November 2014 - 07:03.

[HoldenRT]

Interesting question, have never thought about it.  Not sure I've ever seen it happen.  I guess as said above by RedRabbit Kubica's accident shows it can happen, but also the downsides.

 

The NBA is a really good example of teams having huge amounts of money invested in players, their franchise depends on it but every year in the off season there are world championships or Olympics, where you have to weigh up the risks vs the rewards because for some playing for their country is the ultimate honour and for others.. it's a chance to rest and recharge for the next season.  There are always the occasional injury but overall it seems a personal decision.  A few months ago Paul George snapped his leg bone in two while playing for Team USA and now his Indiana Pacers suffer because of it.  Some talk about including contracts that forbid it and others just let the player be happy making their own choice.  It can lead to resentment otherwise.  They are sportsmen and it's their job to play the sport they love.  There is a conflict of interest in terms of doing what they love vs risking injury.  In football, I don't follow it closely but it seems a given that they will always want to play for their country.  One of the rare times where they will always want to play for the country but I guess the World Cup is the center stage?

 

In F1 it seems very rare and the seasons are structured differently.  There is no higher stage than F1, and since that is what they do 9 months out of every year, the other 3 months seem best just to rest and prepare for the next one.  They do other sports like cycling or triathalons but it's rare to see them appear in other racing series.  In racing it's a bit different because different racing series are almost like different sports, with a different approach so it's not as easy to transition between the two.  It'd be great to see F1 drivers appear in NASCAR or Indycar during one off events (between F1 races) but it's not a simple thing.  The best you can hope for I guess is those days where they just do a test session to try it out.. for media promotion purposes.  It was pretty cool to see Lewis try out a NASCAR at Watkins Glen.

 

Pretty sure the ultimate F1 driver fans dream is to see them all race on a level playing field.. but then again, F1 heads more and more towards a spec series anyway.

[Ilmor]

Team and driver sponsors have an influence on this as well. Great question(s). 

[Stephane]

Bourdais did the 24h of Le Mans the year he was a Toro Rosso driver.

[DutchAutosportFan]

Well do you remember the 70's and 80's when guys as Lauda drove in the impressive BMW M1 cup ?
Or back in the 60's when it was not unusal for drivers to race multiple races in a weekend (F2 and F1).

[tomjol]

Little to do with Bernie, contracts are between drivers and teams, not drivers and FOM.

[taran]

In the past, drivers more or less had to race in multiple series to make a decent living from racing.

From the late 70s onwards, drivers made enough so didn't have to. Thus you'd mostly see drivers in uncompetitive F1 cars do other series.

From the late 80s onwards, drivers would have to do so much testing and sponsor appearances, it wasn't really that feasible to do other series. In addition, there was the danger of accidents destroying F1 careers.

 

And at some point, drivers realised they were damaging their reputation/market value by racing in other series. Because the series regulars would often have the better cars and certainly more experience. Being beaten by drivers who hadn't made it to F1 lowered the standing of current F1 drivers.

 

So unless driver salaries collapse and even rookies don't make serious $$$, F1 drivers will not do other series or even one-off races IMO. There are too many disadvantages to it for the drivers.

[F1ultimate]

On name:

 

Kubica

 

 

Imagine if you were a racing team and had €40m of sponsorship and investment money that depends on your top driver being alive. Would you let him race in Dakar or rally through the woods of serbia?

 

I don't think so, and neither would your insurers. 

[Jamiednm]

Like any job, you can have as many as you want. It'll be up to the contracts the drivers have, never mind time constraints.

[redreni]

Teams don't like drivers getting injured, I guess. But then again, it used to be commonplace for F1 drivers to race other categories in the days when injuries and deaths were considerably more common, so maybe it comes down to teams and drivers' own management wanting to protect their image. An F1 driver competing at Macau or at another international event like Surfers' Paradise or Daytona or even Le Mans, would have very little to gain by winning, but everything to lose, reputation-wise, by qualifying and running in the midfield or towards the back. Would be cool to see Ricciardo and one or two others disproving that theory, though!

 

Other than that, the F1 season is very long and quite intense, with contractual time commitments extending well beyond just the race weekends what with promo appearances etc. Most F1 drivers are quite well paid (if not by their team then by their sponsors) so it's not altogether surprising that a lot of them would choose to spend their time, when they're not clocking up airmiles on F1 duty, at home with their families. You would think that the virtual abolition of in-season testing would have given them a chance for an occasional forray, though...

[Lotus53B]

Jim Clark died in an F2 race.

 

What with sponsor commitments, training, briefing, simulations etc, being an F1 driver is a full time occupation - maybe not quite like the 9-5 as most of us know, but definitely full time - and okay there is some going to parties/dinners etc., but is not as much fun when the entire time you have to drink mineral water and smile at a bunch of jerks...

[Spillage]

I seem to remember Sebastien Bourdais running Le Mans for Peugeot when he was a Toro Rosso driver, but on the whole I think the teams aren't keen. I read once somewhere that Ferrari drivers were only allowed to drive Fiat-owned brands, even on the road. If I'm not mistaken this is why Michael Schumacher could only do the buggies in the RoC, and couldn't drive the reasonably priced car on Top Gear.

It stems back to the death of Stefan Bellof at Spa in the WEC, I think. What happened to Robert Kubica rather reaffirms that reluctance.

EDIT: I'd love to see it though. Love to see them do Le Mans, do the Indy 500 (although it always seems to be the same weekend as Monaco nowadays) or even try to emulate Jim Clark and win the British Touring Car Championship during their weekends off from F1.

Edited by Spillage, 13 November 2014 - 12:07.

[BRG]

Modern F1 drivers have a lot of time on their hands,  There is scarcely any testing anymore, so they have 20+ spare weekends a year.  If I was running a team, I would want my drivers to keep sharp by racing something every weekend.  They can do their simulator work and training on weekdays.  I want to see these guys in touring cars, sports cars, NASCAR, Indycar, GTs.  They are supposed to be the best, so they can have no fears about being beaten.  And maybe it will keep them away from making stupid tweets....

[Collombin]

Jim Clark died in an F2 race.

I don't think Clark's variety of race categories was in any way unique, but it is remarkable how he managed to do it all (F1, F2, Tasman, saloon cars, Indy, RAC Rally) just driving Lotuses.

[Prost1997T]

Too bad. I enjoy watching drivers like Mike Rockenfeller, Augusto Farfus, Robert Huff, Simon Pagenaud, Kyle Larson, Daniel Serra, and Richie Stanaway race at the Daytona 24 etc when they're not busy with their primary series.

[Risil]

Too bad. I enjoy watching drivers like Mike Rockenfeller, Augusto Farfus, Robert Huff, Simon Pagenaud, Kyle Larson, Daniel Serra, and Richie Stanaway race at the Daytona 24 etc when they're not busy with their primary series.

 

I agree, although I don't blame the teams for refusing to let their property risk injury while engaging in hobbies or vanity projects. It is interesting that NASCAR, which dwarfs other series in a way similar to F1, has far more drivers being allowed to take part in "extra" events. For better or worse.

 

In MotoGP Marc Marquez argues that his sideline as a dirt flat track racer helps keep him sharp during the winter and practice edge-of-adhesion control at much less dangerous speeds than road racing machinery. Fairly self-serving although it's hard to argue with the results.

Edited by Risil, 13 November 2014 - 12:31.

[Kraken]

Modern F1 drivers have a lot of time on their hands,  There is scarcely any testing anymore, so they have 20+ spare weekends a year.  If I was running a team, I would want my drivers to keep sharp by racing something every weekend.  They can do their simulator work and training on weekdays.  I want to see these guys in touring cars, sports cars, NASCAR, Indycar, GTs.  They are supposed to be the best, so they can have no fears about being beaten.  And maybe it will keep them away from making stupid tweets....

You're underestimating the amount of sponsor work they do. 

 

Motorsport is primarily about the car and the team running it. The best driver in the World can't win if it's a poor car and/or team but as most people don't understand that they have a huge amount to lose by being beaten in another series.

 

Not to mention that "keeping sharp" has nothing to do with racing in other series.

[Henri Greuter]

Jim Clark died in an F2 race.

 

What with sponsor commitments, training, briefing, simulations etc, being an F1 driver is a full time occupation - maybe not quite like the 9-5 as most of us know, but definitely full time - and okay there is some going to parties/dinners etc., but is not as much fun when the entire time you have to drink mineral water and smile at a bunch of jerks...

 

Clark died while still driving for his team (Lotus), be it in a deffirent category. Technically he still worked for his employer.

 

I recall Ken Tyrrell being not very happy about Stefan Bellof still racing sportscars in 1985 but having no manner to stop him from doing so.

Something similar for the F1 teams of Manfred Winkelhock and Jonathan Palmer by the way

 

From then on I can't recall many F1 drivers doing other races than F1 anymore during the season.

Didn't Bercie Leechlestone deliberately plan the Canadian Grand Prix in the same weekend as the Le Mans 24 hours to make sure that none of `his` stars cluld shine at Le Mans, create headlines over there and create moer interest for Sportscars at the expense of his series?

Ansd steal away some of the attention that otherwise would have gone to Le Mans?

 

Henri

[BRG]

You're underestimating the amount of sponsor work they do. 

 

Not at all.  Most of them haven't got any sponsors!  And those that have aren't really doing more than one or two things a week, so they still have plenty of spare time.  And how often have you seen or heard of, say, Kimi doing any sponsor appearances?

 

The only thing stopping drivers racing more is the the restrictive contracts that teams insist upon.  Ideally, they would like to wrap their drivers up and put them in a box between races.  It's a bit sad really and indicative of how F1 is entirely up its own orifice.

Edited by BRG, 13 November 2014 - 12:54.

[Amphicar]

Clark died while still driving for his team (Lotus), be it in a deffirent category. Technically he still worked for his employer.
 
Henri

It is a bitter irony that Jim Clark and Graham Hill had agreed to drive the Alan Mann Ford 3 Litre P68 prototype in the BOAC 500 that Sunday - but Colin Chapman insisted that they do a totally meaningless F2 race at Hockenheim instead.

[JHSingo]

More than anything else, this is what I'd like to see happen today. I wasn't around to see it, but I have great admiration for someone like Jim Clark, who would race F1 one weekend, F2 the next, then maybe sports cars or touring cars, before heading over to Indianapolis for the 500. If F1 drivers really are 'the best drivers in the world' that they are often claimed to be, then it'd be great to see them tackle different disciplines while they're still competing in F1.

I suppose one of the reasons we don't see it happen today is the length of the F1 calendar. Back in Clark's day, obviously there were less F1 races, meaning more time to race in other classes. I definitely wouldn't be at all disappointed if the F1 calendar was shorter, especially if it meant we could see an Alonso, Hamilton or Vettel racing in V8 Supercars, the Sebring 12 hours, or as Ricciardo says, the F3 Macau Grand Prix.

Edited by JHSingo, 13 November 2014 - 13:00.

[scheivlak]

I suppose one of the reasons we don't see it happen today is the length of the F1 calendar. Back in Clark's day, obviously there were less F1 races, meaning more time to race in other classes. I definitely wouldn't be at all disappointed if the F1 calendar was shorter, especially if it meant we could see an Alonso, Hamilton or Vettel racing in V8 Supercars, the Sebring 12 hours, or as Ricciardo says, the F3 Macau Grand Prix.

 

As others have pointed out, that's not the main reason by far nowaydays.

Back then, you could hardly make a living driving a F1 car and it depended for quite a big part on start or prize money per race. Any other drive, and any other chance to get start or prize money, was always welcome.

 

Nowadays a lot of drivers are even prohibited to drive anything else than F1 - if only for reasons of insurance.

Edited by scheivlak, 13 November 2014 - 13:14.

[Collombin]

Back in Clark's day, obviously there were less F1 races

Admittedly the Tasman series had slightly different engine rules, but if you include those and the non-WDC events I would say it's about the same.

Even in his tax exile period, Clark still managed about 35 races per year.

[DampMongoose]

I don't think Clark's variety of race categories was in any way unique, but it is remarkable how he managed to do it all (F1, F2, Tasman, saloon cars, Indy, RAC Rally) just driving Lotuses.

 

 

Add Le Mans to that list, didn't he finish runner-up in class in a Lotus Elite? Although it was a Border Reivers entry.

[Collombin]

Add Le Mans to that list, didn't he finish runner-up in class in a Lotus Elite? Although it was a Border Reivers entry.

Yes, that would have been 1959 I think - I also believe that could be the first race where Clark competed against Moss.

Clark was 3rd overall in 1960, but that was in an Aston Martin.

[Dolph]

It is a bitter irony that Jim Clark and Graham Hill had agreed to drive the Alan Mann Ford 3 Litre P68 prototype in the BOAC 500 that Sunday - but Colin Chapman insisted that they do a totally meaningless F2 race at Hockenheim instead.

 

Well, the P68 was a lemon, so I don't think they would have lost out on anything.

[Collombin]

Swings and roundabouts then.

[Amphicar]

Well, the P68 was a lemon, so I don't think they would have lost out on anything.

You are aware of what happened during that meaningless F2 race at Hockenheim on 7 April 1968?

[BlinkyMcSquinty]

 

 

From the 2013 Desafio Internacional das Estrelas, an annual charity kart race organized by Massa.

Edited by BlinkyMcSquinty, 13 November 2014 - 17:12.

[DampMongoose]

You are aware of what happened during that meaningless F2 race at Hockenheim on 7 April 1968?

 

I really, really hope he isn't.  

Edited by DampMongoose, 13 November 2014 - 17:36.

[chrisj]

I could almost see Red Bull allowing Ricciardo to do Macau.

 

Massa's charity kart race is cool. It would be awesome to have a winter series of these, much better than the ROC, and for a good cause, too.

[pathogen]

Very god topic... P. Rodriguez (BRM + Porsche), Ickx (Ferrari + Ferrari), Peterson (Lotus JPS + BMW) are examples of this kind of 'exchange'. Racing will be more healthy if F1 bosses and sponsors allow to driver race in diferent series. I know 70's were years with relative solid teams in both F1 and Sport cars, but I wonder if current Endurance Championship need the boost of F1/ GP2/ F3 drivers to raise the level of interest. Imagine a crew with Vettel+Kristensen+Magnusen in Audi vs. Button+Buemi+Perez in Toyota.

[pathogen]

In the past, drivers more or less had to race in multiple series to make a decent living from racing.

From the late 70s onwards, drivers made enough so didn't have to. Thus you'd mostly see drivers in uncompetitive F1 cars do other series.

From the late 80s onwards, drivers would have to do so much testing and sponsor appearances, it wasn't really that feasible to do other series. In addition, there was the danger of accidents destroying F1 careers.

 

And at some point, drivers realised they were damaging their reputation/market value by racing in other series. Because the series regulars would often have the better cars and certainly more experience. Being beaten by drivers who hadn't made it to F1 lowered the standing of current F1 drivers.

 

So unless driver salaries collapse and even rookies don't make serious $$$, F1 drivers will not do other series or even one-off races IMO. There are too many disadvantages to it for the drivers.

sorry... Peterson was a GP winner in JPS Lotus and ran the BMW in WSC... the same Reuteman, Ickx or Cevert. Yes, money was th driver more than "uncompetitive F1 cars" The 80s change a lot of things and I don't know way. Both were dangerous, we loose Villeneuve, Pironi and Palleti, Bellof, Stommelen and Winkelhock.

[LeMans86]

Kimi did rallies when driving for Ferrari

[highdownforce]

I could almost see Red Bull allowing Ricciardo to do Macau.

Massa's charity kart race is cool. It would be awesome to have a winter series of these, much better than the ROC, and for a good cause, too.

It won't happen this year.
The event was cancelled today.

I can't see it happening on near future also.