874 replies to this topic

[DrivenF1]

Welcome to the Abu Double, I mean Dhabi, title showdown thread! The final part to the Lewis Hamilton vs. Nico Rosberg 2014 series.

The only house rule (a special request by someone far too influential) is no one under 50 as F1 doesn’t need young fans. On second thoughts…I think we’ve all had enough of Bernie’s crazy ideas so please make yourself at home and enjoy, but please don’t forget to be respectful of others.

The Championship

The World Drivers’ Championship in 2014 has mainly between two men – Lewis Hamilton and Nico Rosberg. These two lucky guys have had the privilege of driving the magnificent Mercedes W05, surely one of the most dominant cars the sport has ever seen. This thread follows their trials and tribulations building up to and throughout the Abu Dhabi weekend.

It’s been an unpredictable season; fans have been treated to a contest with more twists and turns than a Game of Thrones series (but fewer dragons, unfortunately). We’ve seen it all, the two of them bumping into one another, debates about who's more hungry, fury over engine settings, sadness over the other drivers’ inability to keep the car on the track, questions about nationality and occasionally, even some great on track action.

It’s been a great season and we can only hope that the Abu Dhabi weekend is a classic, with some great racing and no reliability issues for either title contender.

Key Stats



Hamilton has generally had the upper hand on Sundays, especially where wins are concerned but it’s points which count and Rosberg has set himself up well after the win in Brazil.

If Rosberg managed to win he would deny Hamilton and it would be the first time in history that a driver did not win the world title with:

• 4 consecutive wins in that season
• 8 wins or more

Let’s have a quick look at the title permutations (green = Hamilton wins, blue = Rosberg wins). It shows that Rosberg needs to get cars in between himself and Hamilton whatever the outcome, surely the ideal outcome would be a Hamilton error-strewn race finishing down in 7th place so double points are not cited as a reason for the Rosberg WDC. This is extremely unlikely and the most likely result is probability-wise a Mercedes 1-2.

Permutations



The story so far



The season has definitely ebbed and flowed. Hamilton initially started the season strongest but the results of the Monaco weekend appeared to trigger a series of errors, bad luck, mechanical failures and general Rosberg superiority.

It was also the time of year where Mercedes, Hamilton and Rosberg were all at their worst. On multiple occasions wins were handed to Ricciardo like Red Bull Head Politician, Christian Horner, had blackmailed Mercedes with the possibility of bringing V8 engines back unless they stopped embarrassing Red Bull.

It’s undeniable despite Rosberg’s better execution in qualifying, the title race has only arrived at Abu Dhabi through a combination of double points and Hamilton’s five session ending issues (three in the race including Australia, Canada and Belgium; and two in qualifying in Germany and Hungary) compared to Rosberg’s 2 issues (Britain and Singapore).

Regardless of the luck, it doesn’t take away from the fantastic job Rosberg has done this year (his qualifying in particular). It must be said that although Hamilton has been supreme in the races (effectively a 9-3 H2H – Germany not counted given qualifying), both are super talented and have the attributes to be a worthy and deserving WDC.

Key questions in the lead up to Abu Dhabi…

• Will this be Jenson Button's last F1 race!? Hopefully not. He definitely deserves a better send off than an unknown future.
• Can Hamilton think of any more ways to give the initiative to Rosberg in qualifying? – So far we’ve had: a decision to abort his Q lap incorrectly (Silverstone); major lock-ups in Canada, Brazil and Bahrain; a spin and exceeding track limits in Austria; brake failure (Germany); and finally but not least his car catching fire in Hungary!
• If necessary, can Rosberg finally pull off a better overtake than his one at Russia or his decisive pass past a helpless Lewis Hamilton at Spa!?
• Finally who will be the 2014 World Champion? Is it Nico Rosberg, a one-time world champion, or Lewis Hamilton, a double world champion?

Your thoughts and hopes? Strap yourself in, this ride may get bumpy...

Edited by Cult, 16 November 2014 - 18:00.

[SophieB]

Previous threads:

 

http://forums.autosp...o-rosberg-2014/

http://forums.autosp...g-2014-part-ii/

http://forums.autosp...-2014-part-iii/

http://forums.autosp...g-2014-part-iv/

http://forums.autosp...81#entry6818087

http://forums.autosp...79#entry6863397

http://forums.autosp...-2014-part-vii/

http://forums.autosp...78#entry6966331

 

Carry on! And thanks to Cult for the Effort Post.

[thegamer23]

Great OP, just can't wait for the final showdown.
It will be tense as hell!

[MortenF1]

The OP invites us to discuss so much more than just Hamilton and Rosberg, but I both hope and think that Hamilton does it. He deserves it and I don't see how anyone can think otherwise! 

Both drivers have had good races in Abu Dhabi, but only Hamilton (of the two obviously) has had memorable ones. I think he's the stronger one, and should be able to get pole, and then when it comes to race-pace…. 

I'm not particularly keen on him running second in the race behind Rosberg, as I think he'll be trying to back Hamilton into whoever is running third. 

[Exb]

Good effort on the OP!

 

I'm just glad I'm not a Lewis or Nico fan as Abu Dhabi will be torture - I can just sit back and enjoy it. (Although my preferred choice would be Hamilton due to the McLaren bonds)

I think only a reliability issue can take this away from Lewis now (he is better than throwing it away on some silly error when its not necessary (this aint 2007 anymore) and his car will easily see him to 2nd).

 

I think Lewis has generally been the better/quicker, less error prone driver out of the 2 this year so will totally deserve to win the title if it goes his way, however should Nico end up with it then I don't think it will be undeserved (unless he deliberately takes out Hamilton ).

 

I'm hoping for a fantastic final showdown between the two (and no reliability gremlins to get in the way) to wrap up a great season for Mercedes - Congratulations to both Nico and Lewis (and Mercedes) on such an amazing season, regardless of the Abu Dhabi result they have had a great year but I'm also really hoping the others close the gap over winter so we can maybe have a 6 way fight in 2015 

[Beamer]

Voted lewis & dont care. Just as the poster above im not a ham nor ros fan. So i wish both fan bases a great weekend and may the winner win!

[sabjit]

"Still I rise"

[baddog]

I dont care who wins but on a purely logical level Lewis deserves it for driving a sliver better. Both given us a decent year when it could have been dull though!

[Watkins74]

I would enjoy a new winner so I hope Rosberg pulls the miracle.

 

 

Plus I can't stand Hamilton,

[Imateria]

Voted Lewis on both counts. Over the balance of the year he's been the better driver and unless things go completely tits up in Abu Dhabi he'll nail the title.

[Farhannn15]

Nice job by the OP 

[sabjit]

Plus I can't stand Hamilton,

 

 

I suggest you run...

[bourbon]

Great Op. A lot of effort and it looks fantastic in addition to being informative. I voted for Nico. I hope he manages to pull it out. It would be a great underdog story. It would be best if he can finish ahead without the double points playing a role, but eve if he does it would be an exciting finish (from that stand point it is good the finale is in Abu Dhabi where they are likely to celebrate either driver with cheers). Of course like in the exciting 2010 finally, there will be no champagne on the podium. Hopefully like RBR, Mercedes will have lots at the ready in the garage to greet their eventual winner. Hopefully no reliability issues come into play and it is a fair battle to the end. Either way should be fun.

Edited by bourbon, 16 November 2014 - 01:27.

[sabjit]

Of course like in the exciting 2010 finally,

 

2010 wasn't really exciting...

[PassWind]

3 wins to Daniel each time Rosberg was on Pole, not much to read into it. 

[tmekt]

An ideal result for me would be Rosberg winning and one of the Williamses/RBs finishing second.

A Hamilton error à la China 2007 would be great.

(sorry)

[cheekybru]

I will be hiding behind the couch for the entire weekend!

 

Seriously tho if Hamilton isnt WDC in a weeks time it will be unjust, Reliability woes, and Rosberg mistakes*, have been pretty much the only things to have cost him points this year, his driving on raceday has been mostly flawless and clear to anyone with half a brain a clear notch above Nicos. 

 

 

In some circumstances "Mistakes" is me being extremely genourous

Edited by cheekybru, 15 November 2014 - 23:46.

[SCEPurple]

I would like Hamilton to take the WDC, and I have voted that he will.

 

While I think both are good drivers, Monaco and Spa make me think Lewis deserves the title. His 9-3 in race H2H's should make it pretty clear cut.

[TomNokoe]

What a thread. Ooooh it's actually happening. Come on LewLew!!!!

[Talisker]

Clearly Alonso, Ricciardo and Bottas dont deserve it because the combined performance of themselves, the engineers who designed the car, and the rest of the team hasn't been sufficient for them to accrue enough points. Introduce a new championship that is subjectively judged by a panel of experts voting on driver skill, and the ability to extract performance from the car, then they'd certainly be in with a shout. But that isn't the WDC.

[Brawn BGP 001]

Couldn't care less who wins, but Hamilton is the most deserving based on his race day performances.

[TF110]

Not sure why anyone could say Rosberg rightfully deserves the title. Yeah, everyone has an opinion. Well, imo, a guy who twice this year did something very questionable and underhanded does not deserve to win. I wont say cheater. I will say that hes been beaten on 2-1 ratio on wins. And where the points count he's been behind convincingly. The only reason he's close is reliability. Without crashing him in Spa, even if he finished 3rd, he would only need 19 points to win the wdc. No reason to delve into the mechanical dnf's. Rosberg himself is responsible for taking at least 15 points off Lewis. Thats why I cant say Nico deserves the wdc. If he wins it, I think its a sham. I also feel there will be huge backlash if Lewis doesnt take it.

Edited by TF110, 16 November 2014 - 01:37.

[bourbon]

2010 wasn't really exciting...

 

I guess that is true for some, probably moreso for Vettel, Webber and Alonso fans - but it was a nail biter going in with 4 still in it to win it.  I see the same thing here - with he addition of the double points rule of course.  Without it, there would be little excitement at all in so far as the competition goes.  Here both contenders are going to have to do their best in every session (moreso Nico) and if they do, then the race could be a cracker of suspense.  But if not, it could be dull as dishwater

Edited by bourbon, 16 November 2014 - 01:48.

[JHSingo]

Don't really care who wins out of those two. Although I'd love some last race drama to befall both.

 

As for the second question, voted Ricciardo. Not been that impressed with Hamilton's attitude (particularly if the first half of the season), and Rosberg's found ways to throw chances of victory away in Italy, Russia and America to name just three. It'll be kind of like 'meh' whoever wins for me.

[TomNokoe]

Hamilton has been under WDC pressure from day 1. Monaco and Spa only intensified this.

Ricciardo has not, and Vettel has matched him more than Rosberg has matched Lewis, but his surprise factor has boosted him up the opinion polls.

Similar story with Bottas. Lots of hype but hasn't done enough against Massa.

Leaves us with Alonso I guess, but we will never know how bad or good Kimi has been

Hamilton
Ricciardo
Alonso
Rosberg

for me

[Ev0d3vil]

Lewis for wdc!

[Leprechau]

 

Key questions in the lead up to Abu Dhabi…

 

• Can Hamilton think of any more ways to give the initiative to Rosberg in qualifying? – So far we’ve had: a decision to abort his Q lap incorrectly (Silverstone); major lock-ups in Canada, Brazil and Bahrain; a spin and exceeding track limits in Austria; brake failure (Germany); and finally but not least his car catching fire in Hungary!

In Canada Rosberg was faster in both attempts and the lock up on second lap was minimal and could not solely explain the gap. In Brazil, it was Nico, above all, who made a mistake in his first lap when he was coming for a 1.09.8 to once more put a confortable margin over Lewis.

 

In Bahrain, Rosberg trashed him with almost 3 tenths on first attempt(I saw Lewis lap and that was a errorless very fine lap) so Lewis got desperate to diminish that big gap and already spun on first corner, The lock ups, small or big, comes because it's hard for him to keep up with Rosberg's qualifying speed.

 

Given Webber/Vettel already got pole in Abu Dhabi by going over track limits, I wonder if Lewis will repeat Singapore where he beaten Rosberg by 0,007s by doing this: (gained almost a tenth in sector one)

 

 

"Rickyardo"(how silly that sounds ) was easily the best driver for me, so I voted for him deserving more.

 

Yeah, Lewis surely had the measure of Rosberg in the races, but he is the only guy Lewis needs to outrace.

 

Ricciardo, in my modest view, has been doing amazing things against a pedigree driver like Vettel and other people in cars not slower/much slower than his Red Bull(Alonso and Williams).

 

I voted for" I don't care" who will win the tittle as I don't support any F1 driver at all, but I won't mind seeing the boy from Stevenage loses it, despite he deserving more than Rosberg, just for the frustration of people hyping him

Edited by Leprechau, 16 November 2014 - 03:23.

[Markn93]

You do realise his back left wheel is still on the track. Track limits doesn't just apply to front-wheels (or maybe it does in Lewis' case, who knows?).

[Leprechau]

You do realise his back left wheel is still on the track. Track limits doesn't just apply to front-wheels (or maybe it does in Lewis' case, who knows?).

really ? Unfortunately, I can't see his rear wheel with this camera, but I'll take you word(guess)    Don't forget that the rear tire's outer edge is no wider than front tire's and the car's attitude doesn't seem to be pointing, the rear end, enough towards the white line in order to touch it. A helicopter shot would settle this...

 

Rosberg's pole in Hockenheim should have also been disallowed for track limits.

 

Anyway, I would abuse track limits as FIA rarely does anything. The penultimate corner of Abu Dhabi is usually "widen" by drivers

 

I still remember a Vettel pole in India where he also was over the white lines and still kept the lap. FIA should stop with tarmac off tracks, that way this discussions would never happen

 

Just saying this all before hand so that people won't come here complaining about driver X getting an ilegal pole, in a week time.

Edited by Leprechau, 16 November 2014 - 05:21.

[Markn93]

Either way the burden of proof is on you who claim he exceeded the limits and frankly (I just checked the Sky Quali that had an outside picture that was still inconclusive) there is no evidence to make the claim. My assumption is the FIA have better knowledge of the situation so they may well have seen a camera view of the back-wheels that we did not and hence no penalty. Also I have no idea where you got your 1 tenth gained number from, I believe Lewis said that lock-up cost him 2 tenths at the time, and that he and Ros both did 28.3s in S1, but this is frankly irrelevant. 

Moreover if we are going to make accusations that drivers exceeded limits without seeing them I may as well question everyone else's last Q3 laps in Singapore, except for the one they showed, Danny Ric, who clearly ran wide in the final corner.  

[SophieB]

I should have limited the second poll questiion. There's the WDC to be won next Sunday but this is still the regular Hamilton vs Rosberg thread. Not Hamitlon vs Ricciardo vs Rosberg vs Whoever. So I'm going to edit it. Apologies to those who already responded, I am sure the discussion of who has driven best all year can take place somewhere else.

[RubalSher]

Lewis

[RubalSher]

I dreamed last night that I was spending the day with Lewis and he had a race on later in the day and I was invited by him to the track!!!

[GoldenColt]

I dreamed last night that I was spending the day with Lewis and he had a race on later in the day and I was invited by him to the track!!!

 

Ha, that's nothing. My dream was about people still discussing whether or not Lewis' pole-lap in Singapore was within the rules or not.

 

Crazy, I know.

[Brazzers]

Ha, that's nothing. My dream was about people still discussing whether or not Lewis' pole-lap in Singapore was within the rules or not.

 

Crazy, I know.

 

Brilliant LOL. 

 

Definitely need that RKO video for this one 

[Newbrray]

Ha, that's nothing. My dream was about people still discussing whether or not Lewis' pole-lap in Singapore was within the rules or not.
 
Crazy, I know.

Quality, just pure quality

[Nemo1965]

I voted Hamilton-Hamilton on both counts, but then I was sorry I did. Because... the race is not run! Suppose that Hamilton has a brain-fade in Abu Dhabi. You know, one of those 2011 brainfades that this year he has not shown. He is in second place... pit-stop. He knows: 'If I pull in a really quick one, I can overtake Rosberg. He won't dare to pass me with too much risk.' He spins into the wall. Or into someone else. Rosberg wins the race. Wins the WC.

 

Then Rosberg is a deserved World Champion.

 

So...

 

I hope no mechanical problems. But a clean race. And that the title is decided by the drivers themselves, what they do on track.

 

Yeah!

[RaySpace]

I wonder what it says when you're 'not a fan of any driver' but would be quite happy to see one driver in particular not win?

 

It comes off as bitter to me, especially when it's flanked by acrimonious .jpg and .gif shots from Singapore- that wailing subtext doesn't sound so 'neutral'.

 

Also, focusing on Singapore rather than Monaco for apparent qualifying misdeeds is as amusing as it is telling.

 

I suppose the anti-fan struggle is real, especially with Hamilton's elite performances this year.

 

Hamilton deserves it more, but fate doesn't work that way. Let's see how it plays out.

[GoldenColt]

You know, one of those 2011 brainfades that this year he has not shown.

 

Just as he hasn't shown them in 2012 and 2013 aswell...

 

But anything can happen, that's for sure.

[Huffer]

Hamilton on both counts. The amount of wins Hamilton has, especially given how many were achieved with Nico starting on pole as well as his two from-the-back drives highlight that this season, Lewis has had a considerable edge over Nico on race day. 

 

Barring any mechanical issues for Lewis, he'll take the title next Sunday. 

[Nigol]

To be still 'on track', there have to be at least two (2) tires in between the white lines. But I've stopped complaining about going off the track since the FIA haven't cared for the last 5 years, so I'm not going to start again now.

Edited by Nigol, 16 November 2014 - 11:44.

[RaySpace]

To be still 'on track', there have to be at least two (2) tires in between the white lines. But I've stopped complaining about going off the track since the FIA haven't cared for the last 5 years, so I'm not going to start again now.

 

One tyre will do actually. From the sporting regs:

 

20.2 Drivers must use the track at all times. For the avoidance of doubt the white lines defining the track edges are considered to be part of the track but the kerbs are not.
A driver will be judged to have left the track if no part of the car remains in contact with the track.

 

I agree that it's applied arbitrarily though  .

Edited by RaySpace, 16 November 2014 - 11:55.

[Nigol]

One tyre will do actually. From the sporting regs:

 

 

I agree that it's applied arbitrarily though  .

 

Shocked. I could have sworn it was two tires. Have they changed it in the past years or am I stupid?

 

Edit: I am actually stupid. 

Edited by Nigol, 16 November 2014 - 12:13.

[OO7]

I've just finished watching the highlights of the Brazilian GP on the BBC.  I'm wondering how effective it would have be to run Hamilton 3-5 laps longer in the stint prior to his final stop?  He had managed his tyres well despite having to close the gap to Nico from 7.5 seconds to 2 seconds, so he would have been able to do the same again and perhaps still have tyres in better shape towards the end.

[Nemo1965]

Just as he hasn't shown them in 2012 and 2013 aswell...

 

But anything can happen, that's for sure.

 

True. But I was trying to be concise, not precise. I have been accused of posting long posts...

[Exb]

I've just finished watching the highlights of the Brazilian GP on the BBC.  I'm wondering how effective it would have be to run Hamilton 3-5 laps longer in the stint prior to his final stop?  He had managed his tyres well despite having to close the gap to Nico from 7.5 seconds to 2 seconds, so he would have been able to do the same again and perhaps still have tyres in better shape towards the end.

Its a strategy that Red Bull and Ricciardo have perfected this season. I'm guessing Merc didn't want to hand that advantage over to their 2nd driver on the road (especially if Nico wasn't in trouble with tyres and could have gone further as well, and then it gets into the territory of trying to out-stratagise your team-mate to the possible detriment of the overall team result so they keep them both on the ideal strategy).

[DaddyCool]

Being a Kimi fan in 2003 and 2005 was torture, so I'm pretty prepared for the massive disappointment if Lewis doesn't win it due to circumstances that are out of his control.

 

That being said, it's silly to use the term 'deserve' in this context. An F1 season is not just about individual performance, as it is a mechanical sport.

Edited by DaddyCool, 16 November 2014 - 13:38.

[P0inters]

Voted Hamilton for both , but I don't think he was as far ahead of Nico as people make him to be. The only races I can remember where he completely trounced Nico were Malaysia and China. Most of the other races were either closely fought battles or one driver retired.

[PAGATRON]

I suggest you run...

 

Why? At least he's honest, but why has he lightened that bit of the text? 

[Newbrray]

Why? At least he's honest, but why has he lightened that bit of the text? 

 

Best ask him…each to their own I guess !

Edited by Newbrray, 16 November 2014 - 14:52.