193 replies to this topic

[nosecone]

Congrats #4

 

Newmans best race of the season!

Edited by nosecone, 16 November 2014 - 23:50.

[Risil]

One a sidenote, I will keep the original title sugested by Risil as a means of troll baiting the rest of the forum.

 

Dolph won't know what hit him.

[Mila]

The two guys who swapped seats for 2014 end-up finishing one-two in the Championship. How about that!

Edited by Mila, 16 November 2014 - 23:54.

[dweller23]

So anyway, why did Gordon pit?

[Kulturen]

Probably because Nascar ordered them to? I find it hard to see how anyone takes this seriously.

Edited by Kulturen, 16 November 2014 - 23:57.

[Mila]

who made hamlins call to stay out?

 

Jeff Gordon did. That is, if Grubb fell for the lure of follow-the-leader. Once Hamlin was put behind the eight ball by staying out, the Chevy man stepped aside to allow the two Chevy Chase contenders duke it out, or so it seemed.

Edited by Mila, 17 November 2014 - 00:05.

[Risil]

Kevin Harvick just said the Chase was the best thing to happen to NASCAR in the last 10 years.

 

It's the only thing that's happened to NASCAR in the last 10 years.

Edited by Risil, 17 November 2014 - 00:05.

[OvDrone]

Even if he earned it, Harvick is such a douche.

[Risil]

Who was that imposing moustachioed man who handed over the Sprint Cup trophy earlier?

 

[LuckyStrike1]

An elderly fan. F1 has one (well according to Bernie not nearly enough of them) and NASCAR has one as well. 

[August]

Not sure if Harvick would've won the title without the Chase but even then, he's as deserving a champ as there can be in the Chase. He was the best driver in the Chase, three wins, incl. last two races. Well done, Kevin!

[Dulok]

Not sure if Harvick would've won the title without the Chase but even then, he's as deserving a champ as there can be in the Chase. He was the best driver in the Chase, three wins, incl. last two races. Well done, Kevin!

I believe without the chase only Logano & Gordon would have had a shot at the championship.

[JHSingo]

Was watching the hockey, then found a stream to watch the last 10 laps. Congrats to Harvick, but man, those four are so uninspiring, I didn't really want any of them to win. I mean, it's as bad as asking who I'd prefer to win the F1 championship, Hamilton or Rosberg.

 

The NASCAR chase for the race for the cup for the quest for the thing is far too complicated for my liking, and only adds artificial excitement, in my opinion. But on the little I've seen of this season, it's equally hard to deny that it hasn't created exciting racing and plenty of intrigue. The way I think of NASCAR these days is that it's just a reality show on wheels, but saying that, I'll probably be watching the Daytona 500 next year and other races on the rare occasion that I actually remember that it's on.

Edited by JHSingo, 17 November 2014 - 01:03.

[Lazy Prodigy]

Congrats to Harvick. If anyone but him or Logano won I probably would have thought the year was a joke. Similar to the one Stewart won in 11'. I was actually rooting for Ryan just so I could hear nascar writers say that Newman was the worthy champion of 14'. Exciting race though. That track has really good grooves.

[Dulok]

Anyone else notice that despite the supposed extra excitement of this new chase format, there were an awful lot of empty seats at all the chase tracks?

[Dmitriy_Guller]

Was really pulling for Newman to win, just so that NASCAR would realize the stupidity of it all.  There is something unseemly about a restart with 3 to go deciding a championship, by design.

[Ross Stonefeld]

The amount of yellows was pretty crazy, but they(for the most part) seemed to have valid debris? The yellows were crazy in that, since when is there so much debris?

 

Someone should get on the horn to RACINGnomics. 

[nosaj100]

The amount of yellows was pretty crazy, but they(for the most part) seemed to have valid debris? The yellows were crazy in that, since when is there so much debris?

 

Someone should get on the horn to RACINGnomics. 

 

Didn't NASCAR bury that guy next to Jimmy Hoffa?

[Lazy Prodigy]

The amount of yellows was pretty crazy, but they(for the most part) seemed to have valid debris? The yellows were crazy in that, since when is there so much debris?

 

Someone should get on the horn to RACINGnomics. 

The thing that bother me the most is that yes there is debris but its is no where near the racing line. I mean okay yes it is there but if it is 30 feet away from the racing line then why throw it.

[crbassassin]

Fxxxxxx horse ****

[Peter Perfect]

who made hamlins call to stay out?

 

[TF110]

Cant have a 'yota win Nascar sprint cup. Everyone knows that. It was a chevy title win from Daytona.

[dweller23]

The thing that bother me the most is that yes there is debris but its is no where near the racing line. I mean okay yes it is there but if it is 30 feet away from the racing line then why throw it.

But it's NASCAR, racing line is everywhere.

[TimRTC]

I bet Gordon expected it to go down to a multiple GWC finish, hence his pitstop.

 

I do think NASCAR dodged a bullet this season - Harvick is a plausible champion with his race wins and most laps lead this year, and the fact he won the race too was very handy ( ), but it could easily have ended up with Newman "fluking" in after the other drivers had pit stop issues during late cautions.

 

I think simply the fact that the 14th best driver during the season could become champion proves that the system needs amending.

 

I would be interested to see the statistics to see how much extra coverage the Chase received (excluding that for the fights) - they keep talking about the extra billions of tweets, but given that twitter user figures have risen exponentially in the last few years it is a rather meaningless figure.

[LuckyStrike1]

I was against this new system for this year but I must admit it turned out to be better than I feared, and I think the final race was absolutely fantastic. 

 

Still a shame that Gordon was not in the final four which I think there was a strong case for compared to Newman. However, Newman would have had to win the final race as it turned out and he came close to do so. 

 

On the other hand consistency is still something that pays off in NASCAR and should be, but having said that Logano was the best and most consistent points scorer over the season and isn't a champion. 

 

No system is perfect. They need to do something because although the traditional "most points over 36 races" is the most pure for us purists it would make for a very unthrilling end to the championship. At least now we had a final race that really was the equivalent of a finale in World Championship of soccer, Super Bowl, etc etc. 

 

Cautiosly positive now towards this system which is almost as scary as a lurking Newman in the championship shadows. 

[ebc]

The race was fantastic, just the way a championship decider should be.  It is not the most sporting way to crown the champ but it has been incredibly exciting and i found myself on the edge of my seat countless times over the ten weeks.  

 

I was worried towards the end when Logano fell back and Hamlin stayed out that Newman would get himself the win and he wasn't too far off.  Harvick has been the fasted driver this year so will make a good champion.

 

I think this year was the best shot for a lucky or undeserving winner, I think as drivers get used to the format we will see less opportunities for season performances like Newman's making it through. I think drivers like Gordon who thought they could win really went for it but didn't need to while Newman's only chance was playing it safe.  Had Gordon not gone all out for the win at Texas he probably would not have moved down on Keselowski and instead finished 3rd or 4th.   I think more of the top guys will be more cautious next year and therefore we will see more of the top guys making it through.

[Myrvold]

but having said that Logano was the best and most consistent points scorer over the season and isn't a champion. 

 

Yet he took 37 points less than Gordon through the season.

[LuckyStrike1]

Yet he took 37 points less than Gordon through the season.

 

 

I can't count...

 

Strengthens my case that Gordon should have won though 

[pingu666]

wonder what the post race stuff would of been if newman had won

[LuckyStrike1]

This is NASCAR @ Autosport Forums. So it would be funny, sarcastic, well thought , tongue in cheek, amusing and friendly. And with images.

 

With the exception for the occasional F1 fan dropping in saying "NASCAR is rigged. NASCAR is a joke. How everyone can watch this is beyond me" despite having seen a full NASCAR race all year 

 

 

This post was written in a very generalising manner but not from an iPhone 

Edited by LuckyStrike1, 17 November 2014 - 15:41.

[August]

wonder what the post race stuff would of been if newman had won

Commentators would've praised what an unpredictable Chase there was and what a mental giant Newman is to beat his title rivals despite not winning a race in the entire season and how his amazing pass on Larson put him into a position to win the title.

[Atreiu]

My driver of the season is Brad.

 

Has ayone done the math for total points scored by all drivers in the 36 races?

[Myrvold]

My driver of the season is Brad.

 

Has ayone done the math for total points scored by all drivers in the 36 races?

Unofficial Top 25 in 2014 Sprint Cup Driver Points Standings (not the Chase):
[after Homestead, race 36 of 36]
(using current points system, but not the Chase rules, unofficial)
1) #24-Jeff Gordon(EC), 1253
2) #22-Joey Logano(C4), 1216, -37
3) #2-Brad Keselowski(EC), 1179, -74
4) #88-Dale Earnhardt Jr.(EC), 1175, -78
5) #4-Kevin Harvick(CH), 1171, -82
6) #31-Ryan Newman(C2), 1136, -117
7) #20-Matt Kenseth(EC), 1131, -122
8) #42-Kyle Larson #, 1080, -173
9) #48-Jimmie Johnson(EC), 1067, -186
10) #99-Carl Edwards(EC), 1059, -194
11) #1-Jamie McMurray, 1014, -239
12) #16-Greg Biffle(EC), 1000, -253
13) #11-Denny Hamlin(C3), 987, -266 (missed a races)
14) #15-Clint Bowyer, 979, -274
15) #18-Kyle Busch(EC), 969, -284
16) #5-Kasey Kahne(EC), 966, -287
17) #3-Austin Dillon #, 958, -295
18) #27-Paul Menard, 944, -309
19) #55-Brian Vickers, 921, -332
20) #41-Kurt Busch(EC), 911, -342
21) #9-Marcos Ambrose, 872, -381
22) #47-AJ Allmendinger(EC), 868, -385
23) #78-Martin Truex Jr., 857, -396
24) #43-Aric Almirola(EC), 820, -433
25) #14-Tony Stewart, 799, -454 (missed 3 races)

[Atreiu]

Nice, thanks.

I had no idea Jeff had scored that much more than the rest. It's the second time the Chase format hasn't worked in his favour, IIRC.

Newman totally flew under my radar as well.

 

JJ had a poor points count.

 

2015 cannot be worse for TS unless majot **** happens again.

[jonpollak]

My driver of the season is Jr.

I thought he was a spent force.

I was wrong.

 

Jp

[Jim Thurman]

wonder what the post race stuff would of been if newman had won

 

I'm not sure, but I'm going to go out on a limb and say that Michael Waltrip would've liked it.

[Ross Stonefeld]

Non-Chase points are a mirage, they'd race completely differently. Even if it was Chase Classic people would have had different attitudes to the races and the season.

[TimRTC]

Non-Chase points are a mirage, they'd race completely differently. Even if it was Chase Classic people would have had different attitudes to the races and the season.

 

Agreed. Certainly until Busch's accident at 'dega there were plenty of drivers hanging back to play it safe during the early Chase races, not to mention the later normal series races after it became likely that all winners would get the automatic pass.

 

TBH if Newman had won I wouldn't have been overly happy, but he would have won thanks to playing the game best - while he might have fluked into the tail end of the chase grid, he survived all the elimination rounds and had no inherent advantage over any of the other drivers.

[John B]

Entertaining race even with the yellow flag processions, but rounds of pit stop/restart roulette isn't the way to decide a season championship.

 

FWIW I believe it's the third time Gordon has ended with the most overall points and no Chase (2004, 2007). I think he made that last pitstop to avoid suffering a winter of what-if trauma had he won the finale after being eliminated under those circumstances.

 

Harvick winning and the way the race played out with the contenders likely increases the chances of the format continuing.....we'll see if any discussions lead otherwise.

[nosaj100]

I bet Gordon expected it to go down to a multiple GWC finish, hence his pitstop.

 

I do think NASCAR dodged a bullet this season - Harvick is a plausible champion with his race wins and most laps lead this year, and the fact he won the race too was very handy ( ), but it could easily have ended up with Newman "fluking" in after the other drivers had pit stop issues during late cautions.

 

I think simply the fact that the 14th best driver during the season could become champion proves that the system needs amending.

 

I would be interested to see the statistics to see how much extra coverage the Chase received (excluding that for the fights) - they keep talking about the extra billions of tweets, but given that twitter user figures have risen exponentially in the last few years it is a rather meaningless figure.

 

I'm a pretty big sports fan overall so I consume a lot of sports media. From what I've seen on TV/heard on the radio/read, if you take the fights out, the mainstream coverage the Chase got was very little. No more than what it generates during the "regular season". If you include the fights, its still not much more. It generated like maybe 5 extra minutes of coverage and 4 of those minutes was "LOL, NASCAR must be WWE now". But this is just my opinion from what I experience a media consumer. I have no idea what actual hard numbers would say or if they would even reflect my experiences. The only thing I do know for certain is that ratings have been down across the board but did spike the week after Jeff Gordon got in a fight so obviously NASCAR should have Gordon fight someone every week.

 

Non-Chase points are a mirage, they'd race completely differently. Even if it was Chase Classic people would have had different attitudes to the races and the season.

 

I disagree here. While its true that there would be a slight variation of strategy, especially in the closing race as points are more the central focus, I don't think broadly speaking that it would be all that different. Because the goal of each week is to win the race. And if you can't win, the goal is to finish 2nd...if not 2nd, 3rd, and so on. You're still fighting to get the best finish in that specific race. That's the mentality each team has going into each individual race. I don't see too many teams taking races off in May because they're comfortable with their chances in the Chase come October. They're still going for the best the can do just as if the points were scored over an entire season so therefore I think its still reasonable to look at that scenario and get a reasonable idea how it would have played out

Edited by nosaj100, 18 November 2014 - 00:44.

[Lemnpiper]

    Well after hearing how this Chase format  was proposed to put an emphasis on winning, I do find it somewhat ironic   Newman has a James Hylton type year and almost snags the trophy  at the end.

 

   I cant  see Nascar dumping this format after one year , since doin that would be an admission it failed to produce what was promised.

  But I can also see Nascar perhaps  changing the point structure in the 1st 26 races to make winning all that more valuable .

  An example would to make winning worth  100 points , 2nd worth 80  ,3rd 60 , 4th 50, 5th 45  , 6th - 43th remains the same .

 

  Once the Chase does begin I would award points to the contenders in increments of 10  (ie 1st 160  2nd 150 3rd 140 etc) separate of the points earned by non chase entrants.

 

  And repeat the process in subsequent rounds.

  Though I doubt  one bad race wont still ruin  a chase contender's season like Gordon's was this year.

 

  But the one thing Nascar MUST  do  is tell race announcers   to focus on each race they are covering and limit their references towards the chase til at least week 22 . A lot of the races I attempted to listen to this year has announcers goin over the potential chase standings  as much are each race's standings   , which to me distracted from the 1st 26 races and made them very indistinguishable from each other.

 

     All in all the Chase is the biggest chance to nascar since they dropped all the dirt tracks and short tracks in the early 1970's , and 10 years down the road the jury is still  out whether  the Chase works as well as it was intended.

 

 

   Paul

[Risil]

It's still hard to argue that the Chase is very practical, given that nowadays the same people race against each other in every event anyway.

[nosaj100]

    Well after hearing how this Chase format  was proposed to put an emphasis on winning, I do find it somewhat ironic   Newman has a James Hylton type year and almost snags the trophy  at the end.

 

   I cant  see Nascar dumping this format after one year , since doin that would be an admission it failed to produce what was promised.

  But I can also see Nascar perhaps  changing the point structure in the 1st 26 races to make winning all that more valuable .

  An example would to make winning worth  100 points , 2nd worth 80  ,3rd 60 , 4th 50, 5th 45  , 6th - 43th remains the same .

 

  Once the Chase does begin I would award points to the contenders in increments of 10  (ie 1st 160  2nd 150 3rd 140 etc) separate of the points earned by non chase entrants.

 

  And repeat the process in subsequent rounds.

  Though I doubt  one bad race wont still ruin  a chase contender's season like Gordon's was this year.

 

  But the one thing Nascar MUST  do  is tell race announcers   to focus on each race they are covering and limit their references towards the chase til at least week 22 . A lot of the races I attempted to listen to this year has announcers goin over the potential chase standings  as much are each race's standings   , which to me distracted from the 1st 26 races and made them very indistinguishable from each other.

 

     All in all the Chase is the biggest chance to nascar since they dropped all the dirt tracks and short tracks in the early 1970's , and 10 years down the road the jury is still  out whether  the Chase works as well as it was intended.

 

 

   Paul

 

I agree with you that I doubt they change it regardless of the backlash they get because it would be admitting that it wasn't a good idea. France and NASCAR never want to look like they made a mistake. I do expect them to tweak it a bit to ensure a scenario where it makes it really hard for someone like Newman or Hamlin (who missed a race) to make it to the final.

 

But if they are so hellbent on having a winner takes all race, then they might as well do what I heard DW suggest recently; No Chase, but the 4 drivers with the most wins over the entire season race for the championship at the final race. I suppose any ties would be broken with most 2nd places, or Top 5s, whatever. I'd personally still prefer a traditional motorsports system but DW's suggestion makes a lot more sense than what NASCAR has been doing when you think about it. It literally guarantees that all wins matter and you have 35 races to get the most wins. And then you're guaranteed a thrilling race to the championship amongst the 4 drivers who won the most out of everyone. So you get no Newmans or Hamlins and a guy like Gordon doesn't get his stellar season ruined because another driver cuts a corner to pancake a guy for 11th.

Edited by nosaj100, 19 November 2014 - 00:34.

[John B]

Another possibility is, in the event that a non-eligible drive wins a Chase round race, the highest finishing Chase driver could be promoted to the next round. For example after Martinsville in the last round Gordon would move on via his 2nd place after Jr. I realize this goes against the win to advance mantra, but that's not happening anyway with the current system.

 

Still wholly against a 1-race title shootout, but one other alternative might be to have seedings. I.e. driver x with a bunch of wins or points starts with a few more points than driver y with no wins, etc. That way there's at least some reward for season-long excellence.

Edited by John B, 19 November 2014 - 22:58.