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Red Bull demise


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#1 hitch1983

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Posted 21 November 2014 - 22:12

Anyone here think that Red Bull will pull out of F1 in the next 5 years?

 

think about it....

  • First season of decline,
  • second season of decline looks to be on the cards
  • Vettel (star pupil) leaving,
  • Newey losing interest - taking a back seat, probably ultimately leading to retirement,
  • key staff members being poached, 
  • mercedes dominance
  • ferrari (historical giants) looking to bite back hard
  • Honda giants coming back
  • engine fall outs
  • financial arguments
  • tedious politics

surely red bull will think enough is enough, and ditch the sport, they have a brand thats built on being cool and being the best, if the world of F1 hinders that brand, they will surely say goodbye. red bull dont need F1 as much as F1 needs red bull

 

what ya think?



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#2 frosty125

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Posted 21 November 2014 - 22:14

You could be right but to me they are just a drinks company and that team doesn't have much heritage.



#3 alframsey

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Posted 21 November 2014 - 22:15

Anyone here think that Red Bull will pull out of F1 in the next 5 years?

 

think about it....

  • First season of decline,
  • second season of decline looks to be on the cards
  • Vettel (star pupil) leaving,
  • Newey losing interest - taking a back seat, probably ultimately leading to retirement,
  • key staff members being poached, 
  • mercedes dominance
  • ferrari (historical giants) looking to bite back hard
  • Honda giants coming back
  • engine fall outs
  • financial arguments
  • tedious politics

surely red bull will think enough is enough, and ditch the sport, they have a brand thats built on being cool and being the best, if the world of F1 hinders that brand, they will surely say goodbye. red bull dont need F1 as much as F1 needs red bull

 

what ya think?

Nope. Also a couple of your points are repeated twice.



#4 Imateria

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Posted 21 November 2014 - 22:19

Strictly speaking F1 doesnt need any 1 team, though at the rate it's going one team is all it'll have, but frankly they're a comfortable second in the championship, suddenly this is considered a crisis and cause for them to pull out.

 

There's no point in speculating on this, they'll act like any other major company and pull out when they think they aren't getting enough value from it. That goes for everybody else on the grid as well (accept maybe Williams).



#5 BullHead

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Posted 21 November 2014 - 22:21

You could be right but to me they are just a drinks company and that team doesn't have much heritage.

 

Sir Jackie?



#6 Kimble

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Posted 21 November 2014 - 22:21

Their brand isn't built around being the best, it's about taking risks.



#7 Kimble

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Posted 21 November 2014 - 22:21

Sir Jackie?

 

The mind management is strong with this one



#8 pingu666

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Posted 21 November 2014 - 22:30

there 2 teams btw



#9 HeadFirst

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Posted 21 November 2014 - 22:41

  • First season of decline - After 4 outstanding seasons it was bound to happen
  • second season of decline looks to be on the cards - Possible, but they are still #2 and looking to improve. RB may even close the gap.
  • Vettel (star pupil) leaving - Replaced by Ricciardo, the new star pupil who trounced the original.
  • Newey losing interest - taking a back seat, probably ultimately leading to retirement - Car is not designed by an individual. Newey may take a lesser role, but others will step up.
  • key staff members being poached - Happens to all teams, but the key members Horner, Newey, Marko are still in place. 
  • mercedes dominance - Renault made remarkable gains this year and are now going to focus on Red Bull.
  • ferrari (historical giants) looking to bite back hard - This team is in disarray and have just replaced the (arguably) best driver in F1 with a 4x WDC coming off a mediocre season to partner a former WDC coming off a terrible season. History is just that ..... history.
  • Honda giants coming back - Remains to be seen how competitive they are.
  • engine fall outs - See above
  • financial arguments - Possibly more of a problem for Mercedes and Ferrari.
  • tedious politics - Possibly more of a problem for Mercedes and Ferrari.

Personally I see Red Bull facing the same problems as all teams, but are better prepared than most. They are no more likely to fall out than Mercedes or Ferrari and less so the many others.



#10 frosty125

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Posted 21 November 2014 - 22:43

Maybe Monster would step in ;)



#11 hitch1983

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Posted 21 November 2014 - 22:58

My take on my original post.

 

i guess we will get a feel of red bulls true intentions for the sport in the next few years, which i can imagine will be a struggle or certainly not like what they are used too.

 

Well they struggled when they first joined but they had a hunger, a vision to get to the top, and then did so for 4 years.

 

now the dream team is being picked apart, will that hunger still be there or did they just do it for the fun and a thrill of it, (shake up a conservative snooty environment) after all they are a drinks based company based on that model, risk takers, thrill seekers.

 

this be the true test of red bulls character.  will they be considered serious players if the stick around, will they finally get your respect if they do?



#12 FNG

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Posted 21 November 2014 - 23:15

I don't think so. There was an interview with Bernie that Eddie Jordan did. They talked about the premium signing bonus that some of the teams got. Red Bull, Ferrari, Merc and Mac. Bernie worded it quite interestingly. He said ANY team could have received the bonus if they signed and could guarantee they were in the sport for the next X amount of years. ( can't remember the number, 10 maybe). We all know Bernie is no fool. He doesn't throw around money very often and when he does there is something in it for him. Basically I was under the impression that who ever signed and got the money signed a contract to be in the sport for the next X amount of years. So something tells me if any of those teams who signed split, it will cost them A LOT of money.



#13 pdac

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Posted 22 November 2014 - 00:03

They get hand-outs from Bernie. Why would they leave?



#14 BenettonB192

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Posted 22 November 2014 - 00:04

Why would they pull out? Wasn't there a report recently that only a small fraction of the budget is paid for by Mateschitz? For them it's lots of marketing value for peanuts.

That said i think it's unlikely that they will become as dominant as they were again. But they will be a top team for many years to come.



#15 Fastcake

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Posted 22 November 2014 - 00:09

Red Bull are no different from any other non-racing entity. They are here to sell overpriced fizzy drinks, and when the cost of F1 starts to outweigh the benefits they will pull out.



#16 hittheapex

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Posted 22 November 2014 - 00:30

You could be right but to me they are just a drinks company and that team doesn't have much heritage.

What are your thoughts on Benetton, then?



#17 Brother Fox

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Posted 22 November 2014 - 00:30

Can someone who thinks they are just a drinks company who are in it for the glory explain why they are pumping bajillions of dollars into all levels and disciplines of Motorsport and have been doing so before they decided to enter their own F1 team (s)?

Oh, and nurture heaps of young drivers into the scene

#18 LuckyStrike1

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Posted 22 November 2014 - 00:41

You could be right but to me they are just a drinks company and that team doesn't have much heritage.

 

 

Oh I'm sure everyone in F1 would be delighted to see four cars and one multiple championship winning team and a huge sponsor disappear from the sport... 



#19 Ricciardo2014

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Posted 22 November 2014 - 02:10

4 Constuctors Championship's on the trot, followed by a very comfortable second when the Merc' powered cars should be well ahead.

Yep, game over boys.
Time to get the hell out.

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#20 Collombin

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Posted 22 November 2014 - 02:17

When drinking vodka and coke, the average woman I pulled was a 7.4 out of 10.

When on vodka and Red Bull, the average was 6.1 out of 10. Including one tranny when I was too drunk to tell the difference.

Red Bull, I not only hate you, I hate everything you stand for.

#21 Ev0d3vil

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Posted 22 November 2014 - 02:19

Teams rise and fall. Look at Ferrari in 2000-2004 and now.



#22 Ricciardo2014

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Posted 22 November 2014 - 02:39

When drinking vodka and coke, the average woman I pulled was a 7.4 out of 10.

When on vodka and Red Bull, the average was 6.1 out of 10. Including one tranny when I was too drunk to tell the difference.

Red Bull, I not only hate you, I hate everything you stand for.


I'm praying you realised before it was too late ?

#23 Collombin

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Posted 22 November 2014 - 02:41

I'm praying you realised before it was too late ?


Yeah, they knew way too much about the offside rule to be a genuine girl. Or a Premiership ref.

#24 hittheapex

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Posted 22 November 2014 - 02:43

When drinking vodka and coke, the average woman I pulled was a 7.4 out of 10.

When on vodka and Red Bull, the average was 6.1 out of 10. Including one tranny when I was too drunk to tell the difference.

Red Bull, I not only hate you, I hate everything you stand for.

:lol: Ah, but that might not be down to Red Bull though. You may have just been exercising poor judgment in both who you were trying to pull and what you were drinking, with no relationship between the drinks and the girls  ;)



#25 CrucialXtreme

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Posted 22 November 2014 - 02:59

I don't think RB is going anywhere any time soon. Yes Seb is gone, and no disrespect to him, but now they have Daniel who has shown to be quite formidable. Staff is always poached, that's F1.

#26 Jezick67

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Posted 22 November 2014 - 03:32

Christian Horner on the back row beside Caterham @ press conference, that's gotta hurt,  LOL.   



#27 f1RacingForever

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Posted 22 November 2014 - 03:41

If big names like Honda, Toyota, and bmw left when things got tough, what makes anyone think rbr are any different? Can't see the corporate executives keep pouring money into the team when they are struggling. For teams like Ferrari and Mclaren, f1 is a tradition. They view it differently. Everything learned on track is relevant to their road car division. Anything learned can be applied to increasing the quality of their product. The same doesn't apply to rbr. A losing season is just one massively expensive marketing campaign.

#28 chipmcdonald

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Posted 22 November 2014 - 03:41

I think the survivability of F1 in general, the way it's going, makes the whole thing questionable in 5 years.

#29 chipmcdonald

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Posted 22 November 2014 - 03:44

.. and Horner's engine "solution" is ridiculous:

Let's design yet ANOTHER engine with ANOTHER compromise - V6 twin turbo, spec ERS. Neither here nor there - not an impressive motor alone, and with ERS being spec ZERO GREEN DEVELOPMENT, thereby negating ANY FRAKKING POINT IN HAVING A "GREEN" ANGLE IN F1.

#30 hittheapex

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Posted 22 November 2014 - 03:52

.. and Horner's engine "solution" is ridiculous:

Let's design yet ANOTHER engine with ANOTHER compromise - V6 twin turbo, spec ERS. Neither here nor there - not an impressive motor alone, and with ERS being spec ZERO GREEN DEVELOPMENT, thereby negating ANY FRAKKING POINT IN HAVING A "GREEN" ANGLE IN F1.

 

Personally I think the night races negate any benefit ERS might bring and when the production and disposal cycle is taken into account, ERS may not even be that green. It's wonderful technology, as in effect you get something (horsepower) for nothing once ERS is installed, with great applications for public transport, still not sure how green it is though.



#31 Ricciardo2014

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Posted 22 November 2014 - 03:55

.. and Horner's engine "solution" is ridiculous:

Let's design yet ANOTHER engine with ANOTHER compromise - V6 twin turbo, spec ERS. Neither here nor there - not an impressive motor alone, and with ERS being spec ZERO GREEN DEVELOPMENT, thereby negating ANY FRAKKING POINT IN HAVING A "GREEN" ANGLE IN F1.


I fully understand what you are saying, biggest problem is F1 should never have gone down the "green" route IMHO.
It should be all about the fastest cars on the planet, driven to their limits.

But I digress.

I will be absolutely amazed if RBR decide to pull out of F1 any time soon.

#32 lbennie

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Posted 22 November 2014 - 03:56

My take on my original post.

 

i guess we will get a feel of red bulls true intentions for the sport in the next few years, which i can imagine will be a struggle or certainly not like what they are used too.

 

Well they struggled when they first joined but they had a hunger, a vision to get to the top, and then did so for 4 years.

 

now the dream team is being picked apart, will that hunger still be there or did they just do it for the fun and a thrill of it, (shake up a conservative snooty environment) after all they are a drinks based company based on that model, risk takers, thrill seekers.

 

this be the true test of red bulls character.  will they be considered serious players if the stick around, will they finally get your respect if they do?

 

This is an odd thing to say, who are you talking to here? yourself?

 

They have been a massive name in F1 since the late 90's - almost 20 years now, Infact I'm struggling to think of another company that has been a bigger presence in F1 that is not a manufacturer (who seem to come and go when it suits them), other than Marlboro.

 

They are the only team who are consistently bringing non-paying driving talent to the sport, & they have 4 cars on the grid.

 

They have the next big thing driving their cars, with a production line of world class talent following him through.

 

The recovery they have made from Feb this year has been nothing short of phenomenal.

 

How have they not got peoples respect already? 



#33 Nobody

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Posted 22 November 2014 - 04:15

I think the F1 racing team at Milton Keynes has a long and bright future - whether they're called RedBull, Monster or Dodoni Feta Cheese Racing



#34 lbennie

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Posted 22 November 2014 - 04:28

Red Bull is not merely a sponsor though like monster etc.



#35 mclarensmps

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Posted 22 November 2014 - 04:51

We as individuals have become as short-termist as the corporations we claim to hate. Ironic, isn't it?



#36 SmallHorsey

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Posted 22 November 2014 - 05:06

I would have replied but I got bored halfway through your post...



#37 WOT

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Posted 22 November 2014 - 06:27

Anyone here think that Red Bull will pull out of F1 in the next 5 years?

 

No. They're here till at least 2020.

 

Possibly a better question is; Will F1 be here in the next 5 years?  :yawnface:



#38 Petroltorque

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Posted 22 November 2014 - 06:27

Well Horner whinging on about the engine regs is not going to help their cause. Ironically Renault have remained relatively tight lipped about the whole affair. It's now time for Herr Marko to gag his monkey.
On the engine front; these engines could hardly be called 'green' a more apt description would be 'more efficient'. For them to be called green the carbon tariffs on their build would have to be minimal.

#39 Brazzers

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Posted 22 November 2014 - 06:31

I can see Red Bull being the 2nd best or 3rd in this era. 

 

They should comfortably be ahead of Ferrari at least. 



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#40 SanDiegoGo

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Posted 22 November 2014 - 06:45

Well Horner whinging on about the engine regs is not going to help their cause. Ironically Renault have remained relatively tight lipped about the whole affair. It's now time for Herr Marko to gag his monkey.
On the engine front; these engines could hardly be called 'green' a more apt description would be 'more efficient'. For them to be called green the carbon tariffs on their build would have to be minimal.

 

they must wince every time he opens his trap. constantly being reminded that you f-ed up the very engines you were demanding the sport to introduce is a massive own goal.

 

regarding the teams being contracted to F1 till 2020; how did honda, toyota and bmw manage to just walk away in a matter of months, back in 2009?


Edited by SanDiegoGo, 22 November 2014 - 06:46.


#41 DarthWillie

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Posted 22 November 2014 - 06:53

You could be right but to me they are just a drinks company and that team doesn't have much heritage.

This is Red Bulls 10th year in F1. Only McLaren, Ferrari and Williams have been continuously around in those years.

The so called 'real' teams like BMW, Honda, Toyota have all started and/or quit in that time.
Real 'racers' like Peter Sauber even had an hiatus.

Historically looking, Mercedes is a greater risk. Manufacturers team are controlled by boards, not racing fans.

Look at the Red Bull presence in practically every Motorsport event and for how long they have been doing that. There is more passion there than a board member of most company has.

#42 DutchQuicksilver

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Posted 22 November 2014 - 10:09

Why is Vettel leaving an argument? Ricciardo has beaten him and has the same potential to be their star for the coming years. And if he eventually leaves for Ferrari (which I expect will happen at some point) there's Kvyat, Verstappen and who knows which bright talent will come forward in the nex few years.



#43 garoidb

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Posted 22 November 2014 - 10:15

Why is Vettel leaving an argument? Ricciardo has beaten him and has the same potential to be their star for the coming years. And if he eventually leaves for Ferrari (which I expect will happen at some point) there's Kvyat, Verstappen and who knows which bright talent will come forward in the nex few years.

 

Ricciardo looks very good, and delivers the race wins too. How I look at this will depend on how Vettel gets on at Ferrari. If he were to be decisively beaten by Raikkonen then I would definitely wonder about Red Bull's driver promotion policy. If he is stellar, then it reflects well on Ricciardo too. In the next few years they may not have such a competitive edge that they can afford to pass on top drivers who came up through different routes and still win championships. Time will tell.



#44 PassWind

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Posted 22 November 2014 - 10:37

If big names like Honda, Toyota, and bmw left when things got tough, what makes anyone think rbr are any different? Can't see the corporate executives keep pouring money into the team when they are struggling. For teams like Ferrari and Mclaren, f1 is a tradition. They view it differently. Everything learned on track is relevant to their road car division. Anything learned can be applied to increasing the quality of their product. The same doesn't apply to rbr. A losing season is just one massively expensive marketing campaign.

 

 

Red Bull are no different from any other non-racing entity. They are here to sell overpriced fizzy drinks, and when the cost of F1 starts to outweigh the benefits they will pull out.

 

 

You could be right but to me they are just a drinks company and that team doesn't have much heritage.

 

Does anyone think about it before they twitout? Redbull as a brand is much bigger than just a drinks company, heritage wise they are one of the very few global companies that is in every fringe sporting arena, they embrace new ideas and concepts for human recreation and competition, its the cornerstone of their heritage. 

 

Have to be blind Freddy no to see or acknowledge their contribution to sports, have to be a blind Freddy not to see how good they were at coming in F1 and whooping the heritage out of the classic manufacturers and showing how its really done post Ferrari domination. 

 

Redbull does gives you wings, just ask Kevin Magnussen!


Edited by PassWind, 22 November 2014 - 10:38.


#45 LuckyStrike1

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Posted 22 November 2014 - 10:38

When drinking vodka and coke, the average woman I pulled was a 7.4 out of 10.

When on vodka and Red Bull, the average was 6.1 out of 10. Including one tranny when I was too drunk to tell the difference.

Red Bull, I not only hate you, I hate everything you stand for.

 

 

I think the Red Bull opened your eyes to the reality the Coke didn't. You should be very thankful to Red Bull actually.... Although the knowledge what you have been hitting on and pulling in the past now must hurt quite a bit, but at least thanks to Red Bull you're not doing that anymore. 



#46 Tombstone

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Posted 22 November 2014 - 10:48

 

 

regarding the teams being contracted to F1 till 2020; how did honda, toyota and bmw manage to just walk away in a matter of months, back in 2009?

 

A full Concorde Agreement was not in force during 2008. 

 

Anyhoo, the 2020 agreement was signed in July '13 - and you can't force teams to race if they can't, or don't want to, afford to race. One supposes that Caterham/Marussia might be subject to certain sanctions if they don't race in '15, but if the teams don't exist that won't make a ha'penny worth of difference unless they miraculously return in '16.



#47 mtknot

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Posted 22 November 2014 - 11:17

Red Bull has more passion than most of the other teams... they're running two teams, and have influence in basically every motorsport. 

I'd like to see any other F1 team do the same. 



#48 hitch1983

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Posted 22 November 2014 - 11:26

no one can argue the investment red bull etc have put into f1 or motorsport in general, be it with the main team or the young drivers program etc.

 

but my point is, will that hunger continue during the lean times?  or will they walk away?

 

im not saying they will leave motorsport ,but f1 specifically.

 

it just seems to me things are building that way. i get the feeling they are frustrated the way the sport is being run and the tedious politics.



#49 August

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Posted 22 November 2014 - 11:34

Red Bull will stay as long as it makes commercial sense for them. Somehow I even feel they'll stay as long as Mateschitz wants and it isn't too expensive.

Why would they not want to be in F1? While some more extreme forms of motorsports would suit their brand better, F1 is clearly the biggest motorsport series.

Unless F1 suddenly gets into a crisis and nobody wants to be there, Red Bull should stay as long as it's not too expensive for them.

#50 Lights

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Posted 22 November 2014 - 11:43

I do not think they will leave the sport that quickly. I just don't see them returning to the absolute top anymore with Newey designing garden chairs nowadays and Prodromou at McLaren. The Red Bull development programme will be a lot less appealing. Talents like Ricciardo and Verstappen might just come too late to enjoy anything near the success Vettel had. If Red Bull face a tough next few years I could also see Horner stepping up from teamboss sooner than later to take some more executive-ish, less stressful job.