82 replies to this topic

[Spillage]

I don't see why RB would pull out. They're just too ingrained in the sport. They've got teams at just about every level in the ladder and a track as well. This not to mention that they own, to my knowledge, at least two football teams as well as sponsoring anything from BMX events to a bloke jumping out of a balloon on the edge of space. Sport is in their DNA.

[nosecone]

In another thread we could read that F1 did cost them barely anything in the last season (financially). With the good connections to Bernie which they have, F1 is really cheap for them. If you consider how much advertisement they get through F1...

[LORDBYRON]

Anyone here think that Red Bull will pull out of F1 in the next 5 years?

 

think about it....

• First season of decline,
• second season of decline looks to be on the cards
• Vettel (star pupil) leaving,
• Newey losing interest - taking a back seat, probably ultimately leading to retirement,
• key staff members being poached, 
• mercedes dominance
• ferrari (historical giants) looking to bite back hard
• Honda giants coming back
• engine fall outs
• financial arguments
• tedious politics

surely red bull will think enough is enough, and ditch the sport, they have a brand thats built on being cool and being the best, if the world of F1 hinders that brand, they will surely say goodbye. red bull dont need F1 as much as F1 needs red bull

 

what ya think?

Vettel only left to make a few bob you should read up on how the RB driver program works

 

most of your points are not really points

as people leave for better bigger challenges 

 a engine can blow up in any car its luck

you say that RB are in decline when there just about to finish second in the constructors championship 

 

politics and teams going in and out off fashion in F1     is  F1

 

You either have some kind of grudge to RB or you are not a real fan of F1 as with the points you raise if you had watched F1 for the the last five years you would have seen all your points come true

Edited by LORDBYRON, 22 November 2014 - 12:13.

[zanquis]

Wow one year they are not dominant and people already talking about a demise? They where second in the title and the only other team to take a few wins. They have more talent waiting to start then what they are losing in Vettel. What if every team that won the championship a few times would start thinking abotu their demise as soon as they only become second... Sorry but this is a bad doomthinker, they have 2 teams in F1, they will not pull out like that.

[Jovanotti]

We read a few days ago how cheap they are actually getting to run their F1 team - the exposure is way too good for that price to pull out. Imo a new phase with two exciting new drivers will just begin in 2015.

Edited by Jovanotti, 24 November 2014 - 08:53.

[zanquis]

Well they have a huge advantage, cause training drivers and then making them drive for a simple pay is in the end a lot cheaper a year then pay a Hamilton/Alonso/Vettel paycheck.

it might actually create a situation of serious cost reductions for some teams.

[BullHead]

It has been a superb year for Red Bull, especially given the rocky testing woes. Second only to Mercedes in both WCC and WDC.
Christ, all the teams must be thinking of packing it in....

[string158]

Redbull's fall from dominance this year was due to the Renault engine.  If they had had Merc power, they would have been right in the mix.  As it is they were the only team besides Merc to win a few races this year.  They have lost their dominance, but I fully expect them to carry on winning races next year.

[JimiKart]

Red bull has a car good enough to flatter Webbo, DR, to the point where we're talking about DR like he's some new racing god. It was even good enough to allow Seb to win 4 in a row, I can't imagine them quitting with a car advantage like that.

[P123]

Red Bull won't be going anywhere anytime soon- still competitive, still have a lot of investment throughout the sport, receive an annual windfall from the sport.  I can see them ditching Toro Rosso- memory on this may be wrong but I'm sure they have already tried to offload all or part of that team when Berger was there.

[EthanM]

Red Bull have committed (with parent company guarantees) till 2020. 

[superden]

The report of Red Bull's death was an exaggeration. Mark Twain said so, that's enough for me.

[Boxerevo]

Anyone here think that Red Bull will pull out of F1 in the next 5 years?

 

if the world of F1 hinders that brand 

 

they will surely say goodbye. red bull dont need F1 as much as F1 needs red bull

 

 

[Zmeej]

This needed to be bumped for the sheer hilarity of it.

[BarryinIN]

That was mean.

[YamahaV10]

Excellent bump. It's interesting to look back. There was legit concerns raised. Newey hated the hybrids and still does.

Now is entirely different with the passing of the founder. Plus Marko is much older and has basically put an end to the young driver program. Horner allegedly taking offers from Ferrari.

I hope red bull is here for another 20 years but the core of the team isn't going to be the same for much longer

[Peat]

Great gravedigging Zmeej!

I think it was fair enough to question if the 2014 dip was the start of a terminal decline. Fair play to RBR for sticking it out for so many rough years in the middle there. 

[Beri]

Great gravedigging Zmeej!

I think it was fair enough to question if the 2014 dip was the start of a terminal decline. Fair play to RBR for sticking it out for so many rough years in the middle there. 

 

Anyone who would have thought 2014 was terminal decline, was out of their mind on that. Write off a team after only one season, is mental.

 

As a matter of fact, why dont we have a "Mercedes demise" thread? They had a similar-ish result in 2022.

Of a possible 38 podium finishes that Red Bull could have gotten in 2014, they scored 12. Thats 31% of the total that was available including 3 wins. 

Mercedes could have scored 44 podium finishes in 2022. They got 17. Thats 38% with 1 win.

[Peat]

They were/are a fizzy drinks brand. They'd built up to a period of crushing dominance which suddenly ended. Mateschitz could have pulled the plug at any time on one or both teams. 

[Beri]

Yeah, no. By that time Mateschitz was continiously already 25 years involved with Red Bull in Formula One. Berger in 1989 was one of the first Red Bull athletes. One who would expected him to pull the plug, was very negative to say the least.

[Peat]

ok. 

[Frood]

Excellent bump. It's interesting to look back. There was legit concerns raised. Newey hated the hybrids and still does.

Now is entirely different with the passing of the founder. Plus Marko is much older and has basically put an end to the young driver program. Horner allegedly taking offers from Ferrari.

I hope red bull is here for another 20 years but the core of the team isn't going to be the same for much longer

The young driver program is dead? The same young driver program that added 5 new drivers this year and seems to have about 600 drivers just in Formula 2, let alone anywhere else?

[pUs]

Didn't age particularly well. I'd actually say the team did admirably well and worked hard, despite an obvious engine disadvantage for several seasons.

They might still pull out of course. But that same risk goes for all manufacturers as well, and right now it certainly won't be because lack of results.. 

Edited by pUs, 28 June 2023 - 09:27.

[P123]

Anyone who would have thought 2014 was terminal decline, was out of their mind on that. Write off a team after only one season, is mental.

 

As a matter of fact, why dont we have a "Mercedes demise" thread? They had a similar-ish result in 2022.

Of a possible 38 podium finishes that Red Bull could have gotten in 2014, they scored 12. Thats 31% of the total that was available including 3 wins. 

Mercedes could have scored 44 podium finishes in 2022. They got 17. Thats 38% with 1 win.

 

There was one about the 'end of the Mercedes era.'  It still lives.  And a few about Hamilton too, which all came along at once.     I think they covered just about everything on many more multiple pages than this topic ended up.  And if the era of Merc success was not to the taste of everyone, it's perfectly highlighted by a glorious "good riddance" (jumped the gun I guess) post, 'liked' by 20-odd people.  As such, much of the commentary in the topics below is mere wishful thinking from many of the participants!

 

https://forums.autos...edes/?hl=+ineos

https://forums.autos...k/?hl=+mercedes

https://forums.autos...a/?hl=+mercedes

 

 

 

https://forums.autos...e/?hl=+hamilton

https://forums.autos...n/?hl=+hamilton

https://forums.autos...1/?hl=+hamilton

Edited by P123, 28 June 2023 - 12:32.

[Gareth]

They were/are a fizzy drinks brand. They'd built up to a period of crushing dominance which suddenly ended. Mateschitz could have pulled the plug at any time on one or both teams. 

They threatened to leave themselves multiple times during the early years of Merc dominance.

 

Hardly seems outlandish for someone to have speculated they might have done it.

[YamahaV10]

The young driver program is dead? The same young driver program that added 5 new drivers this year and seems to have about 600 drivers just in Formula 2, let alone anywhere else?

It is dead. They kept Yuki Tsunoda around just because. After his bad 2021 and even he didn't expect to be back.

Then they just picked the latest name that was trending on Twitter to fill Gaslys seat. They wanted Herta when he was the trendy prospect. Then Devries was trending and they hired him.

That's not the cut throat YDP that it used to be. Also Checo's struggles aren't really getting addressed

Edited by YamahaV10, 28 June 2023 - 23:02.

[YamahaV10]

There was one about the 'end of the Mercedes era.' It still lives. And a few about Hamilton too, which all came along at once. I think they covered just about everything on many more multiple pages than this topic ended up. And if the era of Merc success was not to the taste of everyone, it's perfectly highlighted by a glorious "good riddance" (jumped the gun I guess) post, 'liked' by 20-odd people. As such, much of the commentary in the topics below is mere wishful thinking from many of the participants!

https://forums.autos...edes/?hl=+ineos
https://forums.autos...k/?hl=+mercedes
https://forums.autos...a/?hl=+mercedes




https://forums.autos...e/?hl=+hamilton
https://forums.autos...n/?hl=+hamilton
https://forums.autos...1/?hl=+hamilton

Mercedes has won 1 race since the end of 2021. And that was George Russell. They are getting back into it now but it's safe to say the dominance era is over

[GreenMachine]

The big unknown is that DM is no longer around.  I think it plausible that ownership may change, especially under the cost cap - if Horner hasn't floated this with DM/his heirs I would be amazed, he is pretty smart and must see the upsides in a (bigger?) stake in the team.  The issue then is control, noting the reasons behind the collapse of the Porshe deal.

 

Image-wise it still works for RB (I think?), so while the most likely outcome is a reduction/sell-out of the DM financial interests in the team, the RB branding will likely continue.

 

My 2c.

[Beri]

They threatened to leave themselves multiple times during the early years of Merc dominance.

 

Hardly seems outlandish for someone to have speculated they might have done it.

 

Most of the threats were pure politics. Same with Ferrari. The latter has threatened to leave F1 more times than they have won championships.

[New Britain]

The big unknown is that DM is no longer around.  I think it plausible that ownership may change, especially under the cost cap - if Horner hasn't floated this with DM/his heirs I would be amazed, he is pretty smart and must see the upsides in a (bigger?) stake in the team.  The issue then is control, noting the reasons behind the collapse of the Porshe deal.

 

Image-wise it still works for RB (I think?), so while the most likely outcome is a reduction/sell-out of the DM financial interests in the team, the RB branding will likely continue.

 

My 2c.

Also, majority ownership in the parent company Red Bull GmbH has always been and remains with the Yoovidhya family. One can understand why, after founder Chaleo Yoovidhya died in 2012, his heirs would have chosen to defer to co-founder and elder statesman Dieter Mateschitz regarding whether to continue with the F1 team. Now that Mateschitz is also gone, the heirs of both founders are going to be inclined to rethink the position.

It is very common for the next generation of owners of a very successful enterprise, who lack both the entrepreneurial nous of their parents and the parents' emotional connection to what they built, to cash out. Red Bull Racing today is worth more than it has ever been. These factors do not guarantee that the children will sell the racing team, but they certainly make it more likely that the decision of whether to hold or to sell the team will be purely a financial one, unrelated to their late parents' enthusiasm for motor racing.

[GreenMachine]

Yes, that is sort of what lay behind my thinking.

 

However, I was under the impression that there was a geographic carve-up, with DM taking Europe (and USA?), and that there were separations in the financial interests accordingly.  While that might not affect DM's heirs, it might mean the Thai side has a lesser stake in the F1 team.  If my understanding is correct in whole or part.

[New Britain]

Yes, that is sort of what lay behind my thinking.

 

However, I was under the impression that there was a geographic carve-up, with DM taking Europe (and USA?), and that there were separations in the financial interests accordingly.  While that might not affect DM's heirs, it might mean the Thai side has a lesser stake in the F1 team.  If my understanding is correct in whole or part.

Could be, although it would be odd if the DM part were paying 100% of the expense of the extravagant marketing endeavours, such as owning two Formula One teams, which generate massive international interest and therefore benefit the Thai part as much as the DM part.

[Sterzo]

Most of the threats were pure politics. Same with Ferrari. The latter has threatened to leave F1 more times than they have won championships.

That's right. Even half the forum posters have threatened to pull out of F1 because of grid girls, halos, nothing's-as-good-as-in-my-day etc. As for me, I'm going to boycott F1 on C4 if Alice Powell doesn't reciprocate my love.