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FIA declare Red Bull car illegal


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#1 Gilles4Ever

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Posted 22 November 2014 - 16:23

http://www.bbc.com/s...rmula1/30161617

 

Red Bull face an official investigation after governing body the FIA declared their car illegal at the Abu Dhabi Grand Prix.

The FIA said the front wings on the cars of both Daniel Ricciardo and Sebastian Vettel were too flexible.



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#2 krobinson

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Posted 22 November 2014 - 16:25

Ouch. This won't end well...



#3 Button4life

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Posted 22 November 2014 - 16:25

So they're DSQ from quali :D


Edited by Button4life, 22 November 2014 - 16:29.


#4 RekF1

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Posted 22 November 2014 - 16:25

Was this a new wing? Or have they used it in other races.

#5 Slackbladder

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Posted 22 November 2014 - 16:27

Finally! after all these years!!

#6 Exb

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Posted 22 November 2014 - 16:28

Well they started the season with a DSQ, why not finish with one as well :p



#7 katmen

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Posted 22 November 2014 - 16:29

OMG, when I first read thread title I thought that it was recycled one from  past.



#8 Pharazon

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Posted 22 November 2014 - 16:29

kinda 4 years late isn;t it?



#9 discover23

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Posted 22 November 2014 - 16:30

Excellent news for Alonso. He can beat Vettel in the final standings..

#10 Scudetto

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Posted 22 November 2014 - 16:31

Red Bull being Red Bull.



#11 bogi

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Posted 22 November 2014 - 16:32

Maybe FIA got some info from McLaren/Prodromou how or where to look?



#12 Maikel0230

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Posted 22 November 2014 - 16:33

Oh the irony, Vettel's last race with the team and NOW the wings are found to be illegal :rolleyes:

I bet Jo Bauer is pretty smug right now, he's been giving them a hard time over this for some time know, testing the wings every chance he got.

Edited by SophieB, 22 November 2014 - 16:36.


#13 VolvoT5

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Posted 22 November 2014 - 16:34

This is disappointing as they both appeared to have good pace and could have been in that battle for the last podium position.    Sad way for Vettel to end his RB career as well but the rules are the rules.  



#14 wj_gibson

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Posted 22 November 2014 - 16:35

This is widely suspected to have been the case for years. The fact that RBR was running an extreme rake throughout the entirety of its title-winning era was hardly a coincidence was it?

So why did it take several years to be investigated properly?

#15 Okyo

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Posted 22 November 2014 - 16:35

Why now? Why did they use this wing now exactly? And is it possible that they have been using it for a while?

They've past the tests quite a few times, what changed? 


EDIT: if it's an ongoing thing, they should get WAY more 
savvier consequences than a quali DQ.


Edited by Okyo, 22 November 2014 - 16:37.


#16 Risil

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Posted 22 November 2014 - 16:36

Shame it wasn't the Mercedes cars. That would've made an interesting Sunday.



#17 MortenF1

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Posted 22 November 2014 - 16:37

The wing design might be the same, but perhaps they've gone with a solution (new material????? nah, but I had to air the thought) that has pushed the envelope further and this time they  got stuck in the mud.



#18 as65p

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Posted 22 November 2014 - 16:38

Well, the old cynic in me thinks this is somehow related to the engine debate. Break up the ranks of those teams pushing for development freedom or something.



#19 Gorma

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Posted 22 November 2014 - 16:39

This is widely suspected to have been the case for years. The fact that RBR was running an extreme rake throughout the entirety of its title-winning era was hardly a coincidence was it?

So why did it take several years to be investigated properly?

What does rake have to do with anything?



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#20 Imateria

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Posted 22 November 2014 - 16:39

I wonder if somebody screwed up the carbon layering at the factory, so that this wing flexes too much under the test load. This would make the first time they failed such a test.



#21 P123

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Posted 22 November 2014 - 16:39

Why now? Why did they use this wing now exactly? And is it possible that they have been using it for a while?

They've past the tests quite a few times, what changed? 


EDIT: if it's an ongoing thing, they should get WAY more [/size]
savvier consequences than a quali DQ.


Maybe new spec, new tests, manufacturing error (as I'm sure they will argue!).

I'm sure we all remember the flappy front wings from way back in 2010/ 2011. They were probably to a greater extent illegal, just the FIA couldn't police it.

#22 OO7

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Posted 22 November 2014 - 16:39

Excellent news for Alonso. He can beat Vettel in the final standings..

Finally! :lol:



#23 bonjon1979a

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Posted 22 November 2014 - 16:40

Can't believe it took this long...

#24 Imateria

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Posted 22 November 2014 - 16:40

What does rake have to do with anything?

It was massively important to the performance of the blown diffuser at low speeds.



#25 as65p

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Posted 22 November 2014 - 16:41

What does rake have to do with anything?

 

You think it's a random irrelevant parameter on cars? :drunk:



#26 wj_gibson

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Posted 22 November 2014 - 16:42

What does rake have to do with anything?


I believe the theory is that this was partly to get the front wing as close to the ground as possible with the additional flexing creating something close to a Venturi effect.

I'm no aerodynamicist by any means but this accusation has been following RBR around for a while.

#27 NoSanityClause

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Posted 22 November 2014 - 16:42

Tough luck.



#28 kosmos

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Posted 22 November 2014 - 16:42

Finally, but a little late and when it doesn't matter.



#29 RedBaron

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Posted 22 November 2014 - 16:42

FIA's last chance to get Newey for his flexi stuff, they're taking it.



#30 HoldenRT

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Posted 22 November 2014 - 16:43

kinda 4 years late isn;t it?

 

Because the whole reason for their success in the last 5 years has been the flex of the wings.  They were average in 2007 and 2008 and then bam.. 2009 comes around and they suddenly have new flex technology.

 

How many parts have been banned over the last 5 years in order to even up the field?

 

A hatch in the cockpit for adjustable ride height control?  Diffusers.  Engine maps.  Exhausts.  Other things.  And then each time one was banned, the next race they'd still be quick and sometimes it'd even hurt their competitors more.



#31 Altair

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Posted 22 November 2014 - 16:43

Excellent news for Alonso. He can beat Vettel in the final standings..

 

Alonso is close on the standings with a much worse car just as the last four years. SV is the biggest lie of the Formula 1.

 

Red Bull illegal? They catch them four years late.



#32 Fastcake

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Posted 22 November 2014 - 16:46

I can't express how much schadenfreude I shall feel if Red Bull are finally caught out with flexy wings.



#33 hittheapex

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Posted 22 November 2014 - 16:46

A lot of double standards and jumping to conclusions on this thread.

 

1. FIA have changed the front wing scrutineering rules before and the Red Bull still passed legal. The insinuation by several members that Red Bull have been running an illegal car and only now have been held to account is false. Something is legal, or it is not. It has always been investigated properly, according to the rules at that particular time, after protests of rival teams, too. Saying Red Bull are illegal now and therefore before is such a jump of logic.

 

2. Has no other team has pushed the limits only to be disqualified or have parts of their car outlawed? It's been a regular thing for McLaren, Ferrari and Williams in the past. It's part of F1.


Edited by hittheapex, 22 November 2014 - 19:39.


#34 MikeV1987

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Posted 22 November 2014 - 16:46

Alonso is close on the standings with a much worse car just as the last four years. SV is the biggest lie of the Formula 1.

 

Red Bull illegal? They catch them four years late.

Bitter much?



#35 DanardiF1

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Posted 22 November 2014 - 16:47

Because the whole reason for their success in the last 5 years has been the flex of the wings.  They were average in 2007 and 2008 and then bam.. 2009 comes around and they suddenly have new flex technology.

 

How many parts have been banned over the last 5 years in order to even up the field?

 

A hatch in the cockpit for adjustable ride height control?  Diffusers.  Engine maps.  Exhausts.  Other things.  And then each time one was banned, the next race they'd still be quick and sometimes it'd even hurt their competitors more.

 

2009 was the first year of the wide front wings where they had much more of an effect on the floor of the car than before. It's no secret that Red Bull found much of their advantage in the way they got the front wing to affect the rest of the car, and flexing was a big part of that especially in 2010.



#36 redraven9

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Posted 22 November 2014 - 16:48

Well Red Bull gives you wings... apparently a wrong one


Edited by redraven9, 22 November 2014 - 16:48.


#37 Baddoer

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Posted 22 November 2014 - 16:49

That is about 3 seasons late isn't it.



#38 Bloggsworth

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Posted 22 November 2014 - 16:50

I was watching the onboard in Massa's Williams and noted the amount that the winglets flexed and flattened out down the straights.



#39 marina

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Posted 22 November 2014 - 16:52

http://adamcooperf1....s-wing-flexing/

 

Adrian Newey and team manager Jonathan Wheatley have been to see the stewards to state their case.

If the cars are deemed to be illegal they will be sent to the back of the grid. However clearly the wings will have to be modified so that will be a change of car specification, which means that both drivers will have to start the race from the pitlane.



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#40 pingu666

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Posted 22 November 2014 - 16:52

i havent noticed there wings be as bendy this year as in the past?



#41 redraven9

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Posted 22 November 2014 - 16:54

Damn it would have been epic if this happened to Mercedes though.



#42 Andy35

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Posted 22 November 2014 - 16:56

This is why Newey is leaving, now the engines are the main deal his pushing of  the rules until they flex no longer carries as much advantage. So he got bored.

 

Probably this is just pushing it to see how far they could go, nothing to lose after all.

 

Andy



#43 discover23

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Posted 22 November 2014 - 16:57

Alonso is close on the standings with a much worse car just as the last four years. SV is the biggest lie of the Formula 1.

Red Bull illegal? They catch them four years late.


I know of course.. But Vettel starting up front and Alonso 10th would have made it hard for Alonso to claim that spot..

#44 paulesko

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Posted 22 November 2014 - 16:57

Really??? What a suprise that RB front wing flexes! LOL



#45 Disgrace

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Posted 22 November 2014 - 16:58

Which Red Bull have they declared illegal? From what we know of the stewards, they've most likely just finished investigating the RB6.

#46 Ducks

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Posted 22 November 2014 - 16:59

"sentence with x number of years to late"



#47 RubalSher

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Posted 22 November 2014 - 17:02

I know of course.. But Vettel starting up front and Alonso 10th would have made it hard for Alonso to claim that spot..

 

Yeah but isnt Bottas in play too and likely to grab P4?



#48 AustinF1

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Posted 22 November 2014 - 17:02

B3D0LmICAAAhzj2.jpg



#49 Maikel0230

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Posted 22 November 2014 - 17:02

Which Red Bull have they declared illegal? From what we know of the stewards, they've most likely just finished investigating the RB6.

 

B3D4O7KCQAA6x5z.jpg

 

Clearly not a RB6



#50 LORDBYRON

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Posted 22 November 2014 - 17:02

They will pop on the old wings and start from the pit lane or the back of the grid, Its more likely they were testing a wing or part of the wing for next year