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Mystery Racing Photos


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#1 Almeras911

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Posted 24 November 2014 - 10:13

Hi,

 

I wonder if any TNF experts can help identify some of these mystery photographs from an old friends archive?

 

I don't seem able to post the images directly here or even post a link for some reason but you can see the mystery photos here:

 

http://www.hawthorns...ringtonarch.php

 

Any help would be greatly appreciated!

 

Thanks,

 

Almeras



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#2 Barry Boor

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Posted 24 November 2014 - 10:40

Picture #4 - Lucien Bianchi's Emeryson. Crashed on lap 1 of the 1961 Aintree 200. Looks like Melling Crossing.

#3 Barry Boor

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Posted 24 November 2014 - 10:41

Picture #7 is Jarama, I would think, Spanish Grand Prix 1968.

#4 Barry Boor

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Posted 24 November 2014 - 10:43

#8 - Phil Hill's crashed Cooper at Zeltweg, Austrian Grand Prix 1964.

But these are only guesses, you understand!

Edited by Barry Boor, 24 November 2014 - 10:44.


#5 Barry Boor

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Posted 24 November 2014 - 10:46

#17 - Dutch Grand Prix 1959. Roy Salvadori in the Aston Martin with Carroll Shelby standing doing up his helmet.

#6 Ray Bell

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Posted 24 November 2014 - 10:47

No 7 is at Zandvoort in 1966, a Ferrari in front of a Cooper (Surtees and Rindt?)...

No 8 is the wreckage of Phil Hill's Cooper at Zeltweg in 1964, I think that's John Cooper looking over it.

No 20 is a Brabham-Honda F2 car.

No 18 will be easy for someone with time to work out what chassis the FWMV engine is in with that huge gearbox.

I can't pick what circuit Jack Brabham is on in 1966 in No 15.

Edited by Ray Bell, 24 November 2014 - 10:48.


#7 Barry Boor

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Posted 24 November 2014 - 10:48

Mountains in Holland? I don't think so, Ray. And the Ferrari exhausts are wrong for 1966. :-)

#8 Hse289

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Posted 24 November 2014 - 10:52

Oh Barry, you just beat me to #17,Shelby and Salvadori.

Edited by Hse289, 24 November 2014 - 10:52.


#9 Ray Bell

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Posted 24 November 2014 - 11:01

I thought they were sandhills, Barry...

Okay, I got that one wrong. I've been thinking, maybe Jack is at Mexico City?

#10 Ray Bell

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Posted 24 November 2014 - 11:07

19 is a Lotus 16...

Perhaps 11 is at Rouen in '64?

#11 small block

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Posted 24 November 2014 - 11:15

No 9 is John Miles watching work on his Lotus 63 at the 1969 Mexican Grand Prix

#12 Rupertlt1

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Posted 24 November 2014 - 11:27

Photo #22 is Merlyn FJ

Photo #23 is Lola FJ front engine

 

RGDS RLT



#13 Macca

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Posted 24 November 2014 - 12:28

Photo #16 is at Goodwood and #6 is Brands Hatch..... but I've no idea who.

 

Paul M



#14 Garsted

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Posted 24 November 2014 - 13:05

1 to 3 are a Lotus 22 (1962 F Junior)  ! and 2 are at Goodwood.

18 is a Lola F1

Could  #10 be Crystal Palace?

 

Steve



#15 Stephen W

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Posted 24 November 2014 - 13:26

#5 = Silverstone

#6 = Brands Hatch Formula Libre race

#13 & #14 = Prescott



#16 Allan Lupton

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Posted 24 November 2014 - 13:45

Nos 12, 13 & 14 are ERA, Bugatti and Derby-Maserati and my guess is that they are at Crystal Palace.

ETA there's nowhere at Prescott which has woods to the left of the track on rising ground.

 

I think the Bugatti driver is Bernard Kain and it's Tony Ellis in the Derby but I can't offer a guess for the ERA  driver at present.


Edited by Allan Lupton, 24 November 2014 - 13:47.


#17 alansart

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Posted 24 November 2014 - 13:48

 

Could  #10 be Crystal Palace?

 

Steve

Yes



#18 JtP2

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Posted 24 November 2014 - 14:13

No 11 Definitely go for Rouen 64, the only track that year with pave?

 

No 1 Trevor Taylor testing a Lotus 22 at Goodwood on a Lotus testing/ sales session?

 

No 18 1962 Lotus 24/ 25, my instincts now say a 24. Still working on the track


Edited by JtP2, 24 November 2014 - 14:20.


#19 JoBo

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Posted 24 November 2014 - 15:31

Hi,

 

I wonder if any TNF experts can help identify some of these mystery photographs from an old friends archive?

 

I don't seem able to post the images directly here or even post a link for some reason but you can see the mystery photos here:

 

http://www.hawthorns...ringtonarch.php

 

Any help would be greatly appreciated!

 

Thanks,

 

Almeras

 

no. 21 shows a Maserati A6GCS in the USA.

 

JoBo



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#20 TomPeters

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Posted 24 November 2014 - 16:15

12, 13 & 14 are taken at Crystal Palace on 2nd September 1961 (not Prescott!)

 

12 is Dudley Gahagan in ERA R7B

13 is Richard Bergel in Bugatti T35T

14 is Tony Ellis in the Derby - Maserati


Edited by TomPeters, 24 November 2014 - 16:16.


#21 hamsterace

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Posted 24 November 2014 - 16:22

Photograph 10 shows - I believe - Michael McGrath in the ex-Ecurie Ecosse D type (XKD 502) leading Peter Skidmore in the ex-Works/ Cunningham car (XKD 406).

 

The circuit surroundings look very much like Crystal Palace again to me.



#22 Barry Boor

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Posted 24 November 2014 - 16:25

Absolutely no doubt that it's Crystal Palace. Cars are approaching the right hander at South Tower Corner have come up Maxim Rise.

#23 hamsterace

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Posted 24 November 2014 - 16:37

Photo 20 is one of the all-conquering Brabham BT18 Honda F2 cars. A very neat little bit of kit....



#24 pete53

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Posted 24 November 2014 - 16:48

Photograph 10 shows - I believe - Michael McGrath in the ex-Ecurie Ecosse D type (XKD 502) leading Peter Skidmore in the ex-Works/ Cunningham car (XKD 406).

 

The circuit surroundings look very much like Crystal Palace again to me.

Palace Spring Bank Holiday 1969. Top marks to hamsterace - 206 is indeed Mike McGrath, 205 Peter Skidmore and the car in the background I think is Eric Hall in a Healey Elliott. (all courtesy of the original programme)



#25 pete53

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Posted 24 November 2014 - 17:00

I would suggest no 6 is Brands Boxing Day 1963 ( the weather and the big crowd back this up) - if so that is Ian Raby (Cooper) in 10 and H.Lee (Lotus) following.



#26 Tim Murray

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Posted 24 November 2014 - 17:01

Perhaps 11 is at Rouen in '64?

 

No 11 Definitely go for Rouen 64, the only track that year with pave?


Yes indeed - I'm certain it's Hill and Brabham in their battle for second place late on in the 1964 French GP.

#27 Allan Lupton

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Posted 24 November 2014 - 17:08

12, 13 & 14 are taken at Crystal Palace on 2nd September 1961 (not Prescott!)

 

12 is Dudley Gahagan in ERA R7B

13 is Richard Bergel in Bugatti T35T

14 is Tony Ellis in the Derby - Maserati

Hello Tom and welcome.

I assume you must have the programme for that Crystal Palace meeting!

I should have recognised Dudley!

My recollection was that Kain had the wire wheeled T35B and the Bergels' one  had normal wheels - but if it's a 35T that accounts for it.

A couple of years later at VSCC Oulton Park the (1934) Derby won its first race!



#28 Tim Murray

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Posted 24 November 2014 - 17:17

07 is definitely Jarama - the BRM of Rodriguez chasing Amon's Ferrari in the 1968 Spanish GP. There's a David Phipps photo in the race report in Autosport which appears to have been taken from exactly the same spot, but on a different lap, so I suspect Phipps probably took this one as well.



#29 Doug Nye

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Posted 24 November 2014 - 17:44

No 1 driver looks like Pete Arundell -
No 2 looks like Keith Greene -
No 5 looks to me like a Midland Racing Partnership team FJ Lola Mk 5 -
No 11 is definitely Graham in the BRM P261 and definitely a Brabham-Climax following him which should be Jack himself (as identified above) -
No 15 is Denny Hulme in the Repco-Brabham BT20 during the 1966 Mexican GP (the contre-jour lighting is often a dead giveaway for Mexico City late in the year) -
No 16 is plainly quite a memorable FJ shunt at either Madgwick or Fordwater corner, Goodwood, circa 1960-61? (the recovery lorry is much older than the cars)-
No 18 is definitely not, I believe, a Lotus 24. It is a Lola Mark 4 - characteristic Lola cast spoked wheels and very light (daffodil yellow) chassis tubes, plus Climax V8 engine, probably 1962 Bowmaker-Lola team car -
No 19 is a Lotus-Climax 16 and the pit counter and drain cover suggest Aintree, maybe 1959 British GP then -
No 21 Maserati A6G perhaps at the old Hairpin, at the end of the main straight at Snetterton? (or somewhere equally bleak?)-
No 22 surely Ian Raby in a Merlyn?

Lovely, varied, set of photos.

DCN

#30 bradbury west

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Posted 24 November 2014 - 17:48

5&18 Lola mk4 perhaps.
1 looks like Peter Arundell, helmet shape and colour shade, also facial likeness.
2 does not have Trev Taylor's usual white rose badged helmet. Probably announcement or press day. It could also be a wannabe test day with PA and TT setting benchmark times.
How nice to see a shot of the Derby Maserati. ISTR it was at the Revival some years back?.

Edit, damn, beaten to it by DCN

Edited by bradbury west, 24 November 2014 - 17:50.


#31 Ray Bell

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Posted 24 November 2014 - 18:17

Originally posted by Doug Nye
.....No 15 is Denny Hulme in the Repco-Brabham BT20 during the 1966 Mexican GP (the contre-jour lighting is often a dead giveaway for Mexico City late in the year).....


I know not about the lighting, all I had to work on was the roughness of the bitumen and the total unfamiliarity of the scene, angle of approach and so on. I wasn't sure of the helmet, but now I look closely I see I should have been more sure, the glint that obscures a part of one of the stripes had me tossed on that.

#32 JoBo

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Posted 24 November 2014 - 23:36

No 1 driver looks like Pete Arundell -
No 2 looks like Keith Greene -
No 5 looks to me like a Midland Racing Partnership team FJ Lola Mk 5 -
No 11 is definitely Graham in the BRM P261 and definitely a Brabham-Climax following him which should be Jack himself (as identified above) -
No 15 is Denny Hulme in the Repco-Brabham BT20 during the 1966 Mexican GP (the contre-jour lighting is often a dead giveaway for Mexico City late in the year) -
No 16 is plainly quite a memorable FJ shunt at either Madgwick or Fordwater corner, Goodwood, circa 1960-61? (the recovery lorry is much older than the cars)-
No 18 is definitely not, I believe, a Lotus 24. It is a Lola Mark 4 - characteristic Lola cast spoked wheels and very light (daffodil yellow) chassis tubes, plus Climax V8 engine, probably 1962 Bowmaker-Lola team car -
No 19 is a Lotus-Climax 16 and the pit counter and drain cover suggest Aintree, maybe 1959 British GP then -
No 21 Maserati A6G perhaps at the old Hairpin, at the end of the main straight at Snetterton? (or somewhere equally bleak?)-
No 22 surely Ian Raby in a Merlyn?

Lovely, varied, set of photos.

DCN

 

Doug,

 

as mentioned in post 19 this shot was most likely

taken in the USA.

I might be wrong - but I never saw anybody in the UK wearing this kind of helmet...

 

JoBo



#33 Ray Bell

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Posted 24 November 2014 - 23:51

The number painted on that way is a bit US, too...

I might refer this to Jerry Entin, he might refer it to Willem.

#34 bradbury west

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Posted 24 November 2014 - 23:58

The Maserati could be at Snetterton. The Tannnoy speaker looks like ours here and it looks like the start of an AVON tyre hoarding on the right. The goldfish bowl visor might suggest an Ameircan serviceman racing  here, based at an airbase in in East Anglia, lots of them, bases ad airmen..... If it is early/mid1960s period like most of the other shots the Maser would have been relatively cheap and a good club racer

Roger Lund



#35 Ray Bell

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Posted 25 November 2014 - 00:22

That would make asking Jerry a waste of time, wouldn't it?

I also thought that might be an Avon sign. Undoubtedly Doug knew it was.

#36 Paul Parker

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Posted 25 November 2014 - 08:40

Nos 12, 13 & 14 are ERA, Bugatti and Derby-Maserati and my guess is that they are at Crystal Palace.

ETA there's nowhere at Prescott which has woods to the left of the track on rising ground.

 

I think the Bugatti driver is Bernard Kain and it's Tony Ellis in the Derby but I can't offer a guess for the ERA  driver at present.

 

Yes it is Crystal Palace, early 1960s, '62 I think, Mike Cooper had a series of similar shots.



#37 Allan Lupton

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Posted 25 November 2014 - 08:55

Yes it is Crystal Palace, early 1960s, '62 I think, Mike Cooper had a series of similar shots.

See post no. 20



#38 pete53

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Posted 25 November 2014 - 09:00

Pic 5 - David Hobbs at Silverstone in an MRP Lola during the Grand Prix FJ support race.

 

Pict 16 - Definitely Goodwood and probably the Formula Junior race in August 1961(supporting the TT). Several cars were eliminated on the first lap. The inverted car no42 would be the Cooper of Chris Andrews.

 

Pic 22 - May well be Ian Raby as Doug suggested earlier but not a Merlyn - it has a Merlyn type nose but the car I think is a Lotus 22. As Raby started the season in a Merlyn and ended in a Lotus it could be he employed the Merlyn nose. This is obviously Paddock Hill Bend at Brands, but when? Raby did compete with race no.35 at the 1962 Boxing Day meeting. The long shadow does suggest winter, however, by the end of this meeting snow was falling but perhaps there was some sunshine earlier?


Edited by pete53, 25 November 2014 - 18:31.


#39 Almeras911

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Posted 25 November 2014 - 17:04

Wow, thanks for all the replies! :clap:



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#40 Ray Bell

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Posted 25 November 2014 - 17:35

Would it be okay to post the pics here?

In the future, should that page be wiped, this will all be meaningless without the pics.

#41 group7

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Posted 29 December 2014 - 22:12

can any one identify this car & driver, looks to be Cosworth powered ? Prescott hill climb late '60s ?  https://www.flickr.c...19690/lightbox/

 

Mike in Canada



#42 Barry Boor

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Posted 29 December 2014 - 22:27

Looks more like a Repco engine. DFV exhausts don't exit from the vee. Clearly a Brabham but I'll leave the proper identification to those who know much more than like wot I does.

#43 Ray Bell

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Posted 29 December 2014 - 22:33

Originally posted by group7
Can any one identify this car & driver, looks to be Cosworth powered? Prescott hill climb late '60s?  https://www.flickr.c...19690/lightbox/
 
Mike in Canada


I'd like to have a shot at this but you haven't posted the picture...

And seeing as it's on flickr I can't get access to it. I have mentioned this before.

#44 Tim Murray

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Posted 30 December 2014 - 00:26

The car looks like Mike MacDowel's Brabham BT36X-Repco V8, winner of the British Hillclimb Championship in 1973 and 1974. I'm a bit confused by the crash helmet though - MacDowel usually had a white stripe on his helmet, so it may be someone else driving it in the photo.


Edited by Tim Murray, 30 December 2014 - 09:10.


#45 Ray Bell

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Posted 30 December 2014 - 02:00

Michael has e.mailed me the photo and I'd agree...

BT36 sounds right, Repco-Brabham V8 it is, similar to that used in 1967 in GP racing, SOHCs with the porting all inside the vee.

#46 Stephen W

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Posted 30 December 2014 - 09:35

Certainly BT36X, the Repco V8 was a 4 litre unit rather than 3.0, and judging by the number on the car and the aero package it must be 1973 and it is MacDowel driving. Certainly the photo is taken at Prescott (exiting Pardon Hairpin).



#47 Tim Murray

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Posted 30 December 2014 - 10:17

I'm inclining more towards 1972, Steve. Here's a photo of the car from 1973:

http://www.mikehaywa...tm#.VKJmvcDpABg

and the rear wing looks very different. The mystery photo looks much more like the car was in 1972 (when it also carried #3). I also don't think it's MacDowel; all photos I've found of him in the car show him wearing a full-face helmet (although not always with the white stripe). To me it looks much more like Tony Griffiths, who shared the car with MacDowel at the Prescott event of 7th May 1972 after his own Repco-engined Brabham had cam drive problems.

Edited by Tim Murray, 30 December 2014 - 10:24.


#48 bradbury west

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Posted 30 December 2014 - 10:25

Mike, is it possible for you to see if it OK for me to have permission to use the shot of the little mk6 DRW, the no 11 car 5 shots to the right from the Brabham , please as I cannot access flickr for contact details?. I am compiling, and have been for many a year, a history of the DRW marque .
Many thanks
Roger Lund

Edited by bradbury west, 30 December 2014 - 21:37.


#49 Ray Bell

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Posted 30 December 2014 - 10:29

Would it be 4.0 litres?

Capacities I know about for the Repco V8 were:

2.5 - Tasman and ANF1
3.0 - F1
4.2 - Indianapolis (4-cam only?)
4.4 - Sports Cars
5.0 - Sports Cars

Of course, it wouldn't be too hard to do a 'DIY' 4-litre out of an old F1 engine.

#50 Tim Murray

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Posted 30 December 2014 - 11:15

My understanding is that the Repco engine used in MacDowel's BT36X was always the full 5 litre capacity. MacDowel had first used a Repco engine in 1971, fitted to a Palliser. This engine started out at 3 litres and was enlarged to 4.2 litres at some stage during the season. For 1972 MacDowel sold the Palliser to Peter Voigt. The Autosport preview of the 1972 British hillclimb season by Robin Rew said that MacDowel retained the Repco engine, which was then enlarged to 5 litres and fitted to the BT36X. Voigt apparently fitted a different 4.2 litre Repco to the Palliser, the engine which had originally been fitted (as a 3 litre) to the Le Mans Healey prototype. Tony Griffiths had been the first person to use a 5 litre Repco on the UK hills, in his Brabham BT35X.

According to Rew the capacity increases were fairly straightforward:

A change of piston and liner takes the motor to 4.2 and a change of crank to 5 litres.

Does this fit with your knowledge, Ray?