57 replies to this topic

[MP422]

1) Yes, and he also scored 7x the points than Kvyat did. 

 

2) There is no logic in this. This argument would only work if they were even on points. Kevin has a better car and scores 55 points, Kvyat scores 8. Why is Kvyats 8 points more acceptable than Kevins 55?

 

It is not possible to compare the drivers directly since the cars they were driving wasn't level on performance so you have to look at other things like the percentage of points they scored for the team, and here Kevin has a higher percentage. He was competing against Jenson, Kvyat was competing against Vergne...  And if you look at their best result, when taking the difference of the cars into consideration, wouldn't you agree that a 2. place is more impressive than Kvyats 9th..?

 

I'm still waiting for compelling arguments why Kvyat's season is considered better than Kevin's.

 

 

I agree i voted Magnussen.

[MaxisOne]

1) Yes, and he also scored 7x the points than Kvyat did. 

 

2) There is no logic in this. This argument would only work if they were even on points. Kevin has a better car and scores 55 points, Kvyat scores 8. Why is Kvyats 8 points more acceptable than Kevins 55?

 

It is not possible to compare the drivers directly since the cars they were driving wasn't level on performance so you have to look at other things like the percentage of points they scored for the team, and here Kevin has a higher percentage. He was competing against Jenson, Kvyat was competing against Vergne...  And if you look at their best result, when taking the difference of the cars into consideration, wouldn't you agree that a 2. place is more impressive than Kvyats 9th..?

 

I'm still waiting for compelling arguments why Kvyat's season is considered better than Kevin's.

 

 

I dont think i had to spell it out to you that Kyvat and Magnussen drove cars that have different levels of performance ... Hence why i compared their points over the season against their teamates ... who are in the same machinery.

 

 

The Mclaren as proven by Jenson was inherently capable of scoring well over a hundred points over the season.

 

Apart from the first race of the season in which Magnussen scored the bulk of his points through the bonus for coming in second (18) he has been nowhere performing at the level of what his car can provide.

 

Jenson on the other hand proved what the car could provide.

 

Kyvat drove a Torro Rosso .. that car may provide residual points on a good day and while he underperformed in relation to his teamate he still got that car into the points.

 

Again .. .they both sucked .. however .. Kmag should have earned way more than just 37 points over 18 races while his teammate earned 111 over the same 18 races ... 

 

If you disagree then  oh well ..

Edited by MaxisOne, 30 November 2014 - 23:36.

[MP422]

I dont think i had to spell it out to you that Kyvat and Magnussen drove cars that have different levels of performance ... Hence why i compared their points over the season against their teamates ... who are in the same machinery.

 

 

The Mclaren as proven by Jenson was inherently capable of scoring well over a hundred points over the season.

 

Apart from the first race of the season in which Magnussen scored the bulk of his points through the bonus for coming in second (18) he has been nowhere performing at the level of what his car can provide.

 

Jenson on the other hand proved what the car could provide.

 

Kyvat drove a Torro Rosso .. that car may provide residual points on a good day and while he underperformed in relation to his teamate he still got that car into the points.

 

Again .. .they both sucked .. however .. Kmag should have earned way more than just 37 points over 18 races while his teammate earned 111 over the same 18 races ... 

 

If you disagree then  oh well ..

 

 

It's not as cut and dry as that, Kimi and kmag had a lot of contact. Magnussen got some cheap penalties and the difference between points doubles/triples/quadruples soo i don't necessarily think it's possible   go look he scored double the points, points are all that matters. Hard to compare JB and Kmag. Most unexperienced VS most experienced on the grid.

 

Kmag gets my nod as his teammate was of better quality and his season was littered with first lap incidents and a couple harsh penalties.

[Morbus]

Magnussen - a podium on his first race and in the run to replace a world champion in a world championship winning team, yeah, I'd say he did alright.

Kvyat - compreensively beaten by his team mate, who, incidentally, has been housted and is out of F1? I don't think so.

Ericsson - there or there abouts with Bianchi over the season, fairly unspectacular in the limited hardware that was availabel for him, so I'm not sure...

Lotterer - he didn't do a single lap, and he's not young so calling him a rookie is a bit iffy

Stevens - who?

 

So out of them all, I'd say Magnussen. But this is a pretty poor year as rookies go...

[Morbus]

Magnussen didn't have THAT good of a season.  There were some highs but also plenty of lows and the points difference between he and Button isn't small.

It's less than the points difference between Kimi and Alonso...

 

The points different between team mates in a team that's not at the very front will always be high if one of them consistently beats the other (which is what happened both a Ferrari and McLaren), no matter how narrowly they beat them. Imagine a driver finishing in 9th on average and his team mate finishing in 10th on average. It'd be 38 points against 19. It gives the impression that the one is twice as good as the other. Even worse, imagine one finishing 10th and the other finishing 11th. The one would be "infinitely" better than the other.

 

Points don't tell the whole picture.

[weareracing]

How can you possibly compare these drivers, or is this just an opportunity for a KMag love-in    

[Exb]

I think this is a really tough one to call between Kevin and Daniil. Both have had some eye catching performances (especially in qualifying) and Kevin's obvious standout result of the year was the 2nd place in Australia (which I think might count against him in some peoples eyes, he had such a good start but then as a result of not getting anywhere near the podium again it may look like he didn't make any progress through the season?). However they have such different cars/expectations and quality of team-mate it makes a comparison very difficult. Without going back over all the races I would say from memory that Daniil has maybe appeared to have had a few more highs in quali but probably more lows as well so is less consistent and also in the races I would probably give the edge to Kevin as he has shown some good performances, although sometimes these can be marred by an error. (as an excuse if I am doing a disservice to Daniil here, I have paid more attention to Kevins races so maybe overlooking some of Daniils race performances)

I was a big fan of Kvyat from last year in GP3 but I was worried he maybe stepping up to F1 with too little experience. I think he has proven me wrong and has done a good job but I do think his lack of experience showed at times, some of his racing looked very scruffy at times but there is signs he is a very quick driver and hopefully with more experience will gain better racecraft. (I still think it might be too early for him to step up to Red Bull though, I think he still has a lot to learn and Red Bull are less likely to tolerate mistakes than Toro Rosso, having said that Seb made a lot of mistakes in his early career at Red Bull and they stood by him and it paid off for them so I hope they give Daniil the same chances).

Kevin had a huge task getting thrown into McLaren. He was better prepared than Daniil but had a lot more expectations on his shoulders. He was driving for a team that it and its fans sees as a front runner, despite another average car, and against a team-mate who is one of the best out there. Kevin showed he is quick, and showed some promising race performances. He had a couple of rookie mistakes early on when tangling with others (notably Kimi) and admitted he was struggling with racing in a pack after a junior career which recently saw him often leading the pack. I think he improved from those errors but maybe crossed the line a few times with his defending mid-season which cost him some points - again to be expected with a rookie driver but as he is driving for McLaren all these little mistakes are put under the spotlight. I think that extra pressure probably contributed to some of the mistakes in the 1st place - almost a win/perform/impress at all costs. Of course Daniil will have that same pressure now next year.

I do think Kevin would have been better starting off in a lower team, learning the ropes, learning when and how to fight and being allowed to impress against a maybe not-so-good team-mate as Jenson, and as a result earning the McLaren drive. Similar to Daniil but I'm not sure he is quite ready or that his results do show he has earned the Red Bull drive. However Red Bull are usually pretty spot on with their driver choice and keep proving me wrong when I have doubts so hopefully he can step up and do a great job. I also think Kevin has done enough this year to show he deserves 2nd year - unfortunately for him it appears that comes down to a choice between him and a proven world champion so he may lose the seat anyway just due to the circumstances.

Hopefully both will be racing in F1 for plenty of years and will go onto better things!

[Jackmancer]

Stevens, for his radio message after his race in Abu Dhabi xD

 

"Did Lewis win?"