to partner either alonso or button?
Do you think mclaren should have signed hulkenberg for 2015?
#1
Posted 29 November 2014 - 12:44
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#2
Posted 29 November 2014 - 12:55
#3
Posted 29 November 2014 - 12:56
Nope ... it's not like he smoked McLaren reject Perez
#4
Posted 29 November 2014 - 12:56
#5
Posted 29 November 2014 - 12:57
McLaren needs stability and known quantities. They are in the middle of a run of three transitional seasons: 2013 when they started the car afresh instead of evolving the MP4-27, 2014 V8s to V6s, 2015 Mercedes to Honda. The last thing they want to do is introduce another variable. In a normal season, maybe, but given the circumstances, not at all.
#6
Posted 29 November 2014 - 13:02
No. Basically, they shouldn't have signed anybody. The reason for this whole mess is beyond me.
#7
Posted 29 November 2014 - 13:02
RB chose Ricciardo
McLaren chose Perez and Magnussen
Ferrari chose Raikkonen
Williams chose Massa and Bottas
So I think his chance has gone.
#8
Posted 29 November 2014 - 14:51
They'd be better off keeping Button. I'm afraid Hülk's momentum has slowed a lot this season, despite another solid one. Doesn't look like he'll ever get a top drive now (not that McLaren necessarily IS one!)
#9
Posted 29 November 2014 - 15:11
He couldn't have possibly done any worse, and they would have saved millions to go on car development.
#10
Posted 29 November 2014 - 15:14
No , they should have signed Button long ago.
#11
Posted 29 November 2014 - 15:31
A lot of people saying he should have beaten perez more comprehensively,
2013 button 73, perez 49 points
2014 hulkenberg 96, perez 59 points
Edited by staycool2014, 29 November 2014 - 15:32.
#12
Posted 29 November 2014 - 15:50
Yes!
#13
Posted 29 November 2014 - 16:18
Of course not. Hulkenberg is a second Heidfeld, will never win a race, a good midfield driver. McLaren doesn't need another ideal second driver, they have that in the form of Button.
#14
Posted 29 November 2014 - 16:34
#15
Posted 29 November 2014 - 16:35
It's all speculation until he gets a seat with the big 4.
He may be another Heidfeld. A German who is consistantly in the points who never really got shot at greatness. Even with BMW.
I still think the musical chairs comes down to Hamilton's decision....
#16
Posted 29 November 2014 - 16:40
Of course not. Hulkenberg is a second Heidfeld, will never win a race, a good midfield driver. McLaren doesn't need another ideal second driver, they have that in the form of Button.
Can I borrow your crystal ball?
#17
Posted 29 November 2014 - 17:01
No, but in hindsight Ferrari should have chosen him over Raikkonen.
He couldn't have possibly done any worse, and they would have saved millions to go on car development.
Agree. There is not a big reason for McLaren to specifically sign Hulkenberg right now, however I think McLaren in 2012 and Ferrari in 2013 should have taken a more serious look on Hulkenberg, because it is highly likely he would have fared better than either Perez in 2013 or Raikkonen in 2014.
#18
Posted 29 November 2014 - 17:03
A lot of people saying he should have beaten perez more comprehensively,
2013 button 73, perez 49 points
2014 hulkenberg 96, perez 59 points
Yep, Hulkenberg is strikingly similar to Button also when you look at forum discussion mentality. All throughout the year people complain about "a boring driver, who inherits results from the more exciting drivers", but when the season is over and you look at the scorecard, they always positions well in relation to the car potential.
#19
Posted 29 November 2014 - 17:10
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#20
Posted 29 November 2014 - 17:20
Possibly, yes. But they do have talented and competent young drivers available.
The greater mistake was not signing him for 2013.
Or Ferrrai should have signed him for 2014.
#21
Posted 29 November 2014 - 17:26
The guy beats Perez who at the time was considered to deserve a top seat. But no, Hulkenberg doesn't deserve a shot because he's the next Heidfeld.
Not much logic on these forums recently.
#22
Posted 29 November 2014 - 18:08
and button was faster than Perez, so no point.
either McLaren will use button for another experienced pilot to maximize development and point scoring, or they will go with a rookie or magnussen for future potential.
hulk has been around a while and is what he is.
#23
Posted 29 November 2014 - 18:09
McLaren sign a German? Yeah right.
how dumb
#24
Posted 29 November 2014 - 18:36
Name a German McLaren driver then?
#25
Posted 29 November 2014 - 18:38
to partner either alonso or button?
Do you mean Should ? I am not aware they have not singed any of the three
#26
Posted 29 November 2014 - 18:47
Name a German McLaren driver then?
Jochen Mass?
#27
Posted 29 November 2014 - 18:50
No, he was overrated in 2013 and even he beat Perez the points dont reflect the whole story, he wasnt faster than Perez, he breaks under pressure (Brazil 2012), havent won, no podiums, which means he cant extract all from the car, the generation of Bottas is surpassing him aleady and if he doesnt do anything extraordinary in 2015 it might be his last year in F1.
Went from being the next Alonso/Hamilton in 2013 to became Heidfeld 2.0 in 2014 wonder what he will became in 2015 following that path probs Sutil 2.0 in 2015
And if people argue that he score more points it only reflects how ignorant they are in f1, unable to see beyond numbers and having no criteria at all, because if teams were based on this to sign a driver Button should be driving at Mercedes instead of Lewis, but teams look upon other things, they based on other data to choose a driver and I'm pretty sure they know how to read who has more points, so the points argument is a very superficial one and not saying in no way that he wasn't better than Perez this year of course he was but points are merely a reflection of a season, in which a driver with more category than Esteban or Di Resta prove that Hulkenberg isn't so great.
Edited by emmanuelrubi, 29 November 2014 - 19:02.
#28
Posted 29 November 2014 - 19:00
The guy beats Perez who at the time was considered to deserve a top seat. But no, Hulkenberg doesn't deserve a shot because he's the next Heidfeld.
Not much logic on these forums recently.
This post being proof positive.
#29
Posted 29 November 2014 - 19:02
As he's been given permission to do both Spa 1000K & Le Mans alongside his Force India commitments, he could be thinking of leaving F1 after 2015...
#30
Posted 29 November 2014 - 19:10
They should have signed him back in 2012 for the 2013 season, he would still be there for 2015 IMO
He is underrated, especially on this forum.
Edited by MikeV1987, 29 November 2014 - 19:13.
#31
Posted 29 November 2014 - 19:16
They'd be better off keeping Button. I'm afraid Hülk's momentum has slowed a lot this season, despite another solid one. Doesn't look like he'll ever get a top drive now (not that McLaren necessarily IS one!)
He was doing really good in the first part of the season. His momentum slowed down because Force India can't keep up with development like the big teams can. I don't know how he's expected to get better result as the season goes by when they don't even update the car while the other teams ahead in the standings bring new parts to almost every race. He deserves a shot in a big team.
Edited by MikeV1987, 29 November 2014 - 19:20.
#32
Posted 29 November 2014 - 19:31
Interesting is that had McLaren signed Hulkenberg back in 2013, they would have been better off for the last couple of years. Given a run for Button's money and boosted the point-score. But as it is, McLaren has been experiencing with Perez, then Magnussen, and based on rumours they are still likely to keep the underperforming Magnussen for next year as well. Some people like to dismiss Hulkenberg, but he would have easily given McLaren a much-needed stability and good scores each year. But McLaren tries to do it the hard way - change rookies all the time to find the "next Hamilton", at the same time missing good drivers and ending up with dissatisfactory results altogether.
E: I do think Hulkenberg is slightly underrated by teams, but that's because they are desperate to find the "next star" and keep gambling on drivers. For example Red Bull signed Kvyat and there is no way they would have signed Hulkenberg. Even if Kvyat turns out to be a flop and is nowhere near Ricciardo. But as it is, regardless of how many young drivers the teams keep swapping around to find the "next star", there are only very few, who are even on Hulk's level. Meanwhile teams keep experimenting with young hotshots and face many disappointments among some success stories, Hulkenberg keeps racking up good results wherever he happens to drive at the time.
Edited by sopa, 29 November 2014 - 19:36.
#33
Posted 29 November 2014 - 19:47
No, he was overrated in 2013 and even he beat Perez the points dont reflect the whole story, he wasnt faster than Perez, he breaks under pressure (Brazil 2012), ---
It is interesting how Brazil 2012 is often used as "proof" that Hulkenberg breaks under pressure and thus is completely incapable of winning or achieving podiums! He has got only one single chance in his career to win (or even finish on the podium) and he didn't use it. So, that's it?
Let me recall, many young drivers have failed, when they got a chance.
Raikkonen went off in France 2002, when he had the chance to win his first race.
Fisichella slid off in Nurburgring 1999, when he had the chance to win his first race.
Rosberg went off in Singapore 2009, and then in China 2010, to lose his chance to win his first race.
Vettel had the chance to get his first podium in Japan 2007, but crashed into Webber.
And so on.
All those drivers later won races, despite fluffing their first chances.
By the way, the same Perez went off in Malaysia 2012 to lose his chance to win his first race.
If Hulkenberg got multiple chances, it is sure that he would convert at least some of those chances. All those drivers above got multiple chances, even if they failed at the first hurdle. Missing 1 opportunity out of 1 doesn't mean he would miss 10 opportunities out of 10. But you can get 10 opportunities only in a good car. Those drivers above got good cars, many opportunities, and started delivering. Hulkenberg would do the same. Brazil 2012 tells us absolutely nothing. It is just 1 race out of 100. Just like one crappy race and choking an odd opportunity was just 1 race out of 100 (and more) for many multiple eventual race winners and even World Champions. By the way, Hamilton choked in 2007, missed his first WDC opportunity, and is now a double world champion.
Edited by sopa, 29 November 2014 - 19:50.
#34
Posted 29 November 2014 - 19:56
It is interesting how Brazil 2012 is often used as "proof" that Hulkenberg breaks under pressure and thus is completely incapable of winning or achieving podiums! He has got only one single chance in his career to win (or even finish on the podium) and he didn't use it. So, that's it?
Let me recall, many young drivers have failed, when they got a chance.
Raikkonen went off in France 2002, when he had the chance to win his first race.
Fisichella slid off in Nurburgring 1999, when he had the chance to win his first race.
Rosberg went off in Singapore 2009, and then in China 2010, to lose his chance to win his first race.
Vettel had the chance to get his first podium in Japan 2007, but crashed into Webber.
And so on.
All those drivers later won races, despite fluffing their first chances.
By the way, the same Perez went off in Malaysia 2012 to lose his chance to win his first race.
If Hulkenberg got multiple chances, it is sure that he would convert at least some of those chances. All those drivers above got multiple chances, even if they failed at the first hurdle. Missing 1 opportunity out of 1 doesn't mean he would miss 10 opportunities out of 10. But you can get 10 opportunities only in a good car. Those drivers above got good cars, many opportunities, and started delivering. Hulkenberg would do the same. Brazil 2012 tells us absolutely nothing. It is just 1 race out of 100. Just like one crappy race and choking an odd opportunity was just 1 race out of 100 (and more) for many multiple eventual race winners and even World Champions. By the way, Hamilton choked in 2007, missed his first WDC opportunity, and is now a double world champion.
Unlike Nico he did get a Podium, did Hulkenberg get a podium in Brazil or crashed straight into Lewis? just curious.
#35
Posted 29 November 2014 - 19:57
Hulkenberg seems to have bad form for atleast 5 races every season, that's not what McLaren needs.
#36
Posted 29 November 2014 - 19:59
Assuming they have signed Alonso ..... no, they should sign Button. Assuming they have not signed Alonso ....... no, they should sign Alonso and Button. Assuming they have missed out on Alonso ... no they should keep Mags and sign Button.
#37
Posted 29 November 2014 - 20:01
Hulkenberg seems to have bad form for atleast 5 races every season, that's not what McLaren needs.
Again, how is he supposed to have good races at the end of the season when Force India can't keep up with development with the likes of McLaren? Button would not do any better in that car.
Edited by MikeV1987, 29 November 2014 - 20:02.
#38
Posted 29 November 2014 - 20:03
As he's been given permission to do both Spa 1000K & Le Mans alongside his Force India commitments, he could be thinking of leaving F1 after 2015...
Or on the other hand, he could be thinking his F1 chances are leaving him.
#39
Posted 29 November 2014 - 20:04
Hulkenberg is a brilliant driver who has out-performed his car on many occasions, the other occasions he has driven more to the cars predictable potential. He absolutely deserves the chance, his personality is perfect also, very very confident without being up his own arse. They guy oozes confidence and is very self-assured but well liked throughout the whole of the F1 community.
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#40
Posted 29 November 2014 - 20:09
#41
Posted 29 November 2014 - 20:20
Qualifying stat
Hulkenberg 11
Perez 8
how was he not faster than Perez?
Edited by staycool2014, 29 November 2014 - 20:21.
#42
Posted 29 November 2014 - 20:49
Qualifying stat
Hulkenberg 11
Perez 8
how was he not faster than Perez?
Dunno let me watch again Bahrain where being fast was more important than being fast fighting for place 14th
#43
Posted 29 November 2014 - 20:51
A lot of people saying he should have beaten perez more comprehensively,
2013 button 73, perez 49 points
2014 hulkenberg 96, perez 59 points
#44
Posted 29 November 2014 - 20:52
Qualifying stat
Hulkenberg 11
Perez 8
how was he not faster than Perez?
According to the unimpressed Autosport board, he has no podium, which means he's not top team material. Which is the argument they like to bring up whenever you show them numbers, especially of this season when he clearly beat Perez, almost to the same extent as Button did in 2013.
Ever since Perez scroed those podiums at Sauber, he's been hyped up to infinity around here. Which is what leads people to ignore the scoreboard between the two this season. Even though it's pretty much self-explanatory.
Edited by Cyanide, 29 November 2014 - 20:53.
#45
Posted 29 November 2014 - 20:58
I've never understood the hype surrounding Perez, never really thought he was anything special
#46
Posted 29 November 2014 - 21:07
Dunno let me watch again Bahrain where being fast was more important than being fast fighting for place 14th
Maybe you should watch again, cause Hulkenberg finished 5th.
Edited by Cyanide, 29 November 2014 - 21:07.
#47
Posted 29 November 2014 - 21:10
Finishing four times in 5th position was fast too
#48
Posted 29 November 2014 - 21:24
I've never understood the hype surrounding Perez, never really thought he was anything special
I think Perez is good but not consistent. He has that ability in certain races to match the top drivers like Ham/Alo/Vet, but that usually happens like twice a season. Bahrain and Canada were very good drives.
#49
Posted 29 November 2014 - 21:31
To actually answer the question: no. But Ferrari really should have signed Hulkenberg for 2014.
In fact, he should replace Raikkonen once he retires. All German line-up at the Reds.
#50
Posted 29 November 2014 - 21:32
he breaks under pressure (Brazil 2012)
Yes, he breaks under pressure so often that the best example to give is from 2 years ago - jeez.