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Alfa Romeo 8C 2900B MM crash in practice before 1938 Mille Miglia


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#1 carvad

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Posted 03 December 2014 - 11:32

This image was published in Autocar&Motor, issue from May 17, 1989.

Image titled as "practice crash for 1938 Mille Miglia at Livorno". Any additional info about that crash? Date, place, driver?

 

2dkjuj6.jpg



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#2 raceannouncer2003

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Posted 04 December 2014 - 06:35

The following link shows De Rham/Corara in an Alfa Romeo 8C 2900B as DNA (did not arrive) for the 1938 Mille Miglia.  Maybe that one?

 

http://www.racingspo...1938-04-03.html

 

VInce H.



#3 Nick Savage

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Posted 04 December 2014 - 07:50

Several other pictures taken from different positions and the story of the accident are in Simon Moore's Revised 2.9 volume, well worth buying or borrowing.

Yrs

Nick



#4 carvad

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Posted 04 December 2014 - 08:32

Several other pictures taken from different positions and the story of the accident are in Simon Moore's Revised 2.9 volume, well worth buying or borrowing.

Yrs

Nick

 

Thanks a lot for the info.



#5 Eric Dunsdon

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Posted 04 December 2014 - 09:02

Thanks a lot for the info.

Does the book not tell us who the driver was?.



#6 Nick Savage

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Posted 04 December 2014 - 09:44

Siena and Villoresi drove the car during the MM, but retired through mag. trouble. The actual accident at Livorno, pictured above, took place well after the MM on July 13 in a practise session for the Coppa Ciano. The driver who hit the bridge parapet was Pintacuda. Pictures on page 277/278 of Simon Moore's 2.9 book.

Nick



#7 Vitesse2

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Posted 04 December 2014 - 11:17

I'm not saying you (or Simon) are wrong, Nick - but why would Alfa Corse be running a 2900B in practice for the Coppa Ciano? It was a Formula race, with a supporting Voiturette event. But no sports car supporting race. Severi ran in the Voiturette event - but Pintacuda isn't in evidence.

 

Added to that, the quoted date is just three days after Pintacuda and Severi had won the Spa 24 Hours. And the Coppa Ciano was on August 7th - more than three weeks later.

 

Surely a crash at Pescara in August - practising for the Targa Abruzzi - is more likely? Pintacuda is shown in an entry list (co-driver 'X') for the Targa, published in Il Littoriale on August 13th. With what is described as a 'Pescara model' 2500.

 

The result on WSRP seems incomplete, because Il Littoriale of August 16th says he started, but he appears to have retired some time during the fourth hour. Reason not given.



#8 Nick Savage

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Posted 04 December 2014 - 11:33

I bow to your detailed knowledge  -  I was just relaying what Simon had written, for the benefit of Vadim (the original poster) who does not have access to a copy of the book ....

Nick



#9 ChrisD

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Posted 04 December 2014 - 13:53

According to Andrea Curami in Alfa Romeo & Mille Miglia (2010),   "Alfa Corse had prepared three 8C 2900 Bs for the Mille Miglia with their roadster bodies built by Touring.  They were assigned to Farina-Meazza, Pintacuda-Mambelli and Biondetti-Stefani, plus another for Siena-Emilio Villoresi."

 

The same picture that you have posted appears on p81 of Curami's book with the caption "Another mystery:  this 8C 2900 B was practically destroyed near Livorno during a pre-race recce.  Its registration number was MI 631, like the car later used in the race by Siena-Villoresi."

 

Hope this helps

 

Chris



#10 ChrisD

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Posted 04 December 2014 - 13:58

ps - Villoresi's race number was 148 and he failed to finish



#11 Roger Clark

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Posted 04 December 2014 - 17:12

I'm not saying you (or Simon) are wrong, Nick - but why would Alfa Corse be running a 2900B in practice for the Coppa Ciano? It was a Formula race, with a supporting Voiturette event. But no sports car supporting race. Severi ran in the Voiturette event - but Pintacuda isn't in evidence.

 

Added to that, the quoted date is just three days after Pintacuda and Severi had won the Spa 24 Hours. And the Coppa Ciano was on August 7th - more than three weeks later.

 

Surely a crash at Pescara in August - practising for the Targa Abruzzi - is more likely? Pintacuda is shown in an entry list (co-driver 'X') for the Targa, published in Il Littoriale on August 13th. With what is described as a 'Pescara model' 2500.

 

The result on WSRP seems incomplete, because Il Littoriale of August 16th says he started, but he appears to have retired some time during the fourth hour. Reason not given.

 

Simon's Magnificent Monopostos says that Alfa persuaded the authorities to close the Livorno circuit for some unofficial practice on July 13.  They had a 312 and a 316 but it is possible that they also had a 2900B.  

 

I have the first edition of Simon's 2.9 book which doesn't have details of the accident in the photograph.  However, he does say that two cars went to Spa and the other two remained in Italy for the Pontedecimo Giovi hill climb on July 17.  Pintacuda was one of the drivers at Spa.



#12 Vitesse2

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Posted 04 December 2014 - 18:45

Just to clarify and correct, Pontedecimo-Giovi was run on the 10th, the same weekend as Spa. Farina won, setting a new hill record, with Emilio Villoresi second.



#13 Roger Clark

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Posted 05 December 2014 - 07:50

Carli's Settant'Anni also says the 10th, which removes any concern about whether the car could have been repaired after the accident in time for an event on the 17th.



#14 Doug Nye

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Posted 05 December 2014 - 08:04

Quick response from Simon:

The Alfa Corse people persuaded the authorities to close the road so that they could try out the new Alfetta (mentioned on page 644 of the new book and two photos on page 640) and two GP cars (a 312 and a 316) BEFORE official practice. Again there is a photo in the new book of the 312 with revised bodywork and unpainted on page 528 (text page 526). They took along a MM 8C2900 as well – not one of the Spa cars since they had the additional headlights which the crashed car did not. Why they ran this is unclear but the Il Littorial story definitely mentions a sports car and the crash (although I recall that they mis-identified the engine in the car).

DCN

PS - From the look of the steering wheel in that photograph the impact would have hurt.

Edited by Doug Nye, 05 December 2014 - 08:06.


#15 Vitesse2

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Posted 05 December 2014 - 10:21

The report in Il Littoriale (July 15th) says that it was Sommer who was driving the car when it crashed (on the 14th, not the 13th), although Pintacuda had also driven it. Farina, Villoresi and Biondetti were present, along with all the top bods from Alfa Corse - Ferrari, Converso, Bazzi, Marinoni, Bianchi, Colombo and Massimino. Nuvolari had been invited, but hadn't turned up: as the 14th was the day he was officially confirmed in Berlin as an Auto Union driver that's not entirely surprising!

 

The crash was apparently at the railway bridge at Ardenza, which goes over the road. Looking at Google Streetview, the bridge has obviously been partly rebuilt since then and the road layout possibly changed, but there is a possible candidate for the building in the background just north of the bridge - although there are others nearby and he may actually have been travelling south when the crash happened.

 

PS - From the look of the steering wheel in that photograph the impact would have hurt.

"Fractured right wrist, extensive injuries to his cheek and hands, another large wound on his right knee, and symptoms of concussion."

 

Ouch! :eek:



#16 Vitesse2

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Posted 05 December 2014 - 16:19

The wrist injury is confirmed in French reports of La Turbie, three weeks later. That seems to have been Sommer's only event until Monza in September.