275 replies to this topic

[Afterburner]

 

Because the other thread is approaching the end of its life expectancy and because the lack of an Official thread led me to believe that this wasn't yet Official. But as of this morning it is officially Official... so now we're Official.

 

Some videos:

 

 

 

 

Commence argument discussion. Officially. 

[keiichi]

It was a no brainer really, and keeping Magnussen as reserve was also a sensible decision. I'm still very much a Ferrari guy, but I'm really looking forward for this new Mclaren-Honda age with Alonso and Button. Let's hope for the best!

[Sheepmachine]

Creepy pic alert http://www.autosport...92ba1ec8d6ec3-3

[showtime]

Spanish media video(5:20): http://www.ccma.cat/.../video/5393031/

 

- We have the grocery list (smiles). Nothing is closed but yes, I think there's people that will join us, some are very close,  others not that much, some will come this years, others next year...

Edited by showtime, 11 December 2014 - 19:21.

[LuckyStrike1]

I officially think someone should have tried to jump the bar in the third video. 

[showtime]

Alonso didn't wear team clothes today because he is not allowed until the 1st of January (I wonder if he can officially work with them before that day or not).

[Dalton007]

http://www.bbc.co.uk...rmula1/30436149

 

McLaren chairman Ron Dennis said that he had taken his time over deciding between Button and 2014 team-mate Kevin Magnussen because he had initially had some "causes of concern" about Button.

"I gave Jenson some ideas on solutions," said Dennis, without going into detail," and he said: 'No problem.' Then it was very easy.

"We settled all the things between us that concerned me and what we all have to do is deliver against the commitments and promises we have made to each other."

What is Ron talking about here?

[P123]

http://www.bbc.co.uk...rmula1/30436149
 
 
What is Ron talking about here?

No idea. Only a small number of people on the planet have the ability to decipher Ron Speak.

[Nicktendo86]

No idea. Only a small number of people on the planet have the ability to decipher Ron Speak.

I read it as 'accept a lot less money' and he finally said 'ok'

[Lights]

Well, unless either Ron or Jenson sees your question, I'm afraid you won't get the answer you want.

 

But one of the things I can imagine Ron was concerned about was whether Jenson was ready to fully commit at least 2 years on this project, and not wave goodbye after 1 year.

 

And perhaps the beard.

Edited by Lights, 11 December 2014 - 19:42.

[Craven Morehead]

http://www.bbc.co.uk...rmula1/30436149

 

 

What is Ron talking about here?

i think that can be translated to mean, "I told him if he wanted to drive for us he would have to accept a massive pay cut. And he accepted."

[Lights]

Btw, if it looks like I'm containing my excitement, it's because this is an online forum and I have reasonable control over my output.

 

But i'm really excited. It's basically my favorite 2 drivers driving under the legendary banner of McLaren-Honda. More then ever I'm hoping this car will be any good. Please please please... 

[KWSN - DSM]

Supposedly Button only signed yesterday, supposedly Alonso signed months ago, supposedly Magnussen already had a multi-year contract. Ron's comments and what we think we know appear to me that Button have been the problem here, a preference by team and Honda, not willing to sign on proposed contract, being in a position where he could force their hand enough to get a contract better than what they intended to offer, and being strong enough backed by either board or Honda to not fear being dumped.

 

I expect Alonso to come out on top.

 

Why Alonso is leaving a team, willing to build everything around him for an under performing team and a new engine does not really mesh with the stated object of Alonso to win more WDC's than what he already has. Unless his view of Ferrari is that they are so much in the doldrums, that a McLaren Honda partnership will better equip him to battle for the elusive 3rd, 4th, 5th Championship he so crave.

 

I am a firm believer in not having parity between drivers, there should be a clear 1 and a clear 2, McLaren have set themselves up for driver discontent in same way Mercedes managed last year, Kimi and Sebastian at Ferrari be turn out to be a team of flawed Champions, which considering them holding 5 between them is a strange thing to think.

 

With the ongoing saga as it have been, the other driver moves have to be part of the whole discussion here, Vettel to Ferrari was mooted last year, that may have started Alonso moving towards somewhere else, action and reaction we will be in for some interesting interteam battles, with the McLaren one being a very interesting to follow.

 

[gricey1981]

Really is a strong driver pairing. Pleased Jenson got the seat. Looking forward to next year more now.

[showtime]

Why Alonso is leaving a team, willing to build everything around him for an under performing team and a new engine does not really mesh with the stated object of Alonso to win more WDC's than what he already has. Unless his view of Ferrari is that they are so much in the doldrums, that a McLaren Honda partnership will better equip him to battle for the elusive 3rd, 4th, 5th Championship he so crave.

 

I am a firm believer in not having parity between drivers, there should be a clear 1 and a clear 2, McLaren have set themselves up for driver discontent in same way Mercedes managed last year, Kimi and Sebastian at Ferrari be turn out to be a team of flawed Champions, which considering them holding 5 between them is a strange thing to think.

 

With the ongoing saga as it have been, the other driver moves have to be part of the whole discussion here, Vettel to Ferrari was mooted last year, that may have started Alonso moving towards somewhere else, action and reaction we will be in for some interesting interteam battles, with the McLaren one being a very interesting to follow.

 

 

He said a couple of things today that may give you an idea of why he decided to change. First he admitted the signing of Prodromou was key, not just because of what he can do but for the intentions that the signing represent, "If there's a dominant car like the Red Bull and you want to win you sign Newey or Prodromou, if not, well...". Another quote: "Decisions here and in Japan are made only to win, not for politics and not for pretending."

[pathogen]

I really hope McLaren (and Honda) can deliver a competitive machinery. IMO, they has the best line up on the grid and Mac fans really deserve a top car performance. 

[KWSN - DSM]

He said a couple of things today that may give you an idea of why he decided to change. First he admitted the signing of Prodromou was key, not just because of what he can do but for the intentions that the signing represent, "If there's a dominant car like the Red Bull and you want to win you sign Newey or Prodromou, if not, well...". Another quote: "Decisions here and in Japan are made only to win, not for politics and not for pretending."

 

Surely Alonso have not made this shift without very thorough deliberations, I see part of it as his indictment of the whole setup and atmosphere at Ferrari, which for Kimi and Sebastian can not bode well.

 

I am aware of Prodromou, I am aware of him being written up as great, I have to ask though what exactly have he done? I do not mean being part of the team which '.. ... ...' I mean what have he actually done to warrant such praise?

 

[zeph]

Surely Alonso have not made this shift without very thorough deliberations, I see part of it as his indictment of the whole setup and atmosphere at Ferrari, which for Kimi and Sebastian can not bode well.

 

I am aware of Prodromou, I am aware of him being written up as great, I have to ask though what exactly have he done? I do not mean being part of the team which '.. ... ...' I mean what have he actually done to warrant such praise?

 

 

Well, he was the aerodynamicist at RedBull, and their cars were thought to be quick because of their aerodynamics.

[discover23]

Prodromou was Newey's right hand man. Without Newey in F1, Prodromou essentially becomes the new Newey.

[Dalton007]

The versus thread is going to be lively. 

[zeph]

The versus thread is going to be lively. 

 

As lively as the Alonso vs. Raikkonen thread?

[KWSN - DSM]

Prodromou was Newey's right hand man. Without Newey in F1, Prodromou essentially becomes the new Newey.

 

So i short he never created something which can be attributed to him as being the driving force, naturally they all start somewhere and he may be Rory Byrne reborn I just think a lot seems to hang on potential rather than actual performance, something which was disregarded to such extent on the driver side.

 

[showtime]

So i short he never created something which can be attributed to him as being the driving force, naturally they all start somewhere and he may be Rory Byrne reborn I just think a lot seems to hang on potential rather than actual performance, something which was disregarded to such extent on the driver side.

 

 

The point is McLaren is trying something, maybe it doesn't work, but at least they are showing the will and determination to move forward as opposed to only talking but not changing anything.

[discover23]

So i short he never created something which can be attributed to him as being the driving force, naturally they all start somewhere and he may be Rory Byrne reborn I just think a lot seems to hang on potential rather than actual performance, something which was disregarded to such extent on the driver side.

 

What do you mean? -  he was the head of Aero at RedBull. so those cars are attributed to him as well as Newey who was his boss.

[redbarron]

I'm very happy that Jensen is being paired with Fernando. I said a year or two back that Ferrari should have got Jensen in as his team mate as I believe its a very strong pairing that would work!

 

On the downside I have to buy a new hat and jacket but at least I still have the 2007 hat

 

On another note has there been any word if Stella has moved over with Fernando? I believe Stella's relationship with Fernando has a lot to do with their success at Ferrari!

[Giz]

The versus thread is going to be lively.

I think there are going to be a lot of Alonso supporting Hamilton fans

[Ricardo F1]

Perfect result all round if you ask me . . . just as I had predicted. 

[KWSN - DSM]

showtime and discover23 I am certain that McLaren have done their homework on Prodromou, I am certain that there was a reason for Red Bull to hang on to him for as long as they did, I am certain that Prodromou is a very very capable engineer. He was never in charge of a full car design, head of aerodynamics or not.

 

It is however a decision which will not have any meaningful impact on a McLaren until 2016, the base of the 2015 have already been laid under the direction by Tim Goss, or so do I believe.

 

This discussion should likely not be in the Jenson / Fernando thread.

 

[ThadGreen]

The versus thread is going to be lively. 

 

Especially if Button does to Alonso what he did to Hamilton - outscores him.

Edited by ThadGreen, 11 December 2014 - 21:26.

[discover23]

Especially if Button does to Alonso what he did to Hamilton - outscores him.

something tells me Alonso is not going to be crashing as often as Lewis did back in 2011.

[showtime]

 

On another note has there been any word if Stella has moved over with Fernando? I believe Stella's relationship with Fernando has a lot to do with their success at Ferrari!

 

It's not official yet (probably not before 1st of January) bu he is joining McLaren too.

[Galko877]

Why Alonso is leaving a team, willing to build everything around him for an under performing team and a new engine does not really mesh with the stated object of Alonso to win more WDC's than what he already has. Unless his view of Ferrari is that they are so much in the doldrums, that a McLaren Honda partnership will better equip him to battle for the elusive 3rd, 4th, 5th Championship he so crave.

 

 

 

Ferrari is underperforming as well. Staying there would not have been any less risky than moving to McLaren.

[adumbo]

Congratulations Alonso and Button on their signing! Quite happy and excited for the new season to begin. I am not sure if I can go through a 6th year of agony with Ferrari. But this renews hope to Alonso's elusive 3rd wdc title. It looks like a gamble no different than what Hamilton took to with Mercedes. Let us enjoy the journey once again.

[as65p]

I liked how Alonso mentioned and thanked, aside from the obvious people, also Martin Whitmarsh. He didn't need to do that.

[wj_gibson]

Presumably the first contact came directly from Whitmarsh though.

[Nemo1965]

Perfect result all round if you ask me . . . just as I had predicted. 

 

I wished I could say now: 'I told you so.' But I did not tell you all so. But I am very happy with the result. Just hope that McLaren has something for Kevin. Marussia as Arden revamped? Force India?

Edited by Nemo1965, 11 December 2014 - 21:50.

[BJHF1]

Epic driver pairing...love it! 

[Brod]

 by Tim Goss, or so do I believe.

 

It is hard to understand the team structure in F1 (especially when it comes to McLaren) but Tim Goss, like Pat Fry is no Designer, but an engineer. Also like Fry and Allison at Ferrari, Goss is now a leading figure and not directly involved in designing or developing a car. I guess a lot of fans are confused because of Adrian Newey, a technical director, that always was actively designing the car with Prodromou and Marshall at RB.

In the past (I'm not sure, but I remember it that way) Tim Goss was the chief engineer of the second development team at McLaren responsible for the MP4-21 and MP4-23 (Pat Fry was the chief engineer of the other team and responsible for the MP4-20,22 and 24). Remember that right until 2010, McLaren had practically 2 development teams.

 

Prodromou on the other hand is a designer and the impact of a designer will be noticeable in the short run. Of course you are right by claiming that he will be fully involved before 2016 for the first time. 

Edited by Brod, 11 December 2014 - 21:55.

[as65p]

Presumably the first contact came directly from Whitmarsh though.

 

Guess so. But in this business it's not common to mention "people of the past" in surroundings where they have somewhat fallen out of grace.

[Cyanide]

Man, this is some epic line-up. I just might become a fan of this team again as I once was during the times Kimi was racing there. 

 

However, I'm confident enough to say this already: Jenson won't beat Fernando over a season. He will do better than Kimi obviously, beat him a couple of times but over a full season? Nah, Fernando has that covered. Although both of them will be scoring some big points but I guess that all depends on the car. 

 

What a team. They look awesome. 

[George Costanza]

something tells me Alonso is not going to be crashing as often as Lewis did back in 2011.

I agree with this.... Right now, Fred's at his "perfect" peak of driving wise...

[MortenF1]

What a driver combo these two will be! Now McLaren-Honda, please be competitive!

 

I get the feeling, from Dennis' words in that BBC-article, that he has a little un-willingly, signed Button. And because of that, I suspect Button has been given a performance-clause. The pay-cut is the obvious one, but I think the contract stipulates that "you score a helluva lot of points in '15, or else….!"

 

He also says they've "settled the things between them" and I think that can only be the snippets of communications between them in the media, and also comments like the ones Button dropped at the Autosport Awards.

 

Anyway, McLaren reached the only right decision. (Dissapointed they didn't announce any sponsors though, but that's OT I guess)

[George Costanza]

It depends on Honda, obviously.

 

I don't see Fred or Jesnon betting Mercedes just yet... Maybe 2016-2017 they can beat Mercedes, but right now Mercedes is just like Williams Renault of 1992 or McLaren in 1998 or Ferrari in 2002. Even Williams-Mercedes will beat McLaren-Honda if they contiune the current form and knowing Pat Symonds, Williams will be right there again for 2015.

 

I know obviously about 1988 when McLaren and Honda joined team and they won everything, but those were different circumstances. Ironically they had two of the best drivers in F1 (much like now for McLaren-Honda).

Edited by George Costanza, 11 December 2014 - 22:06.

[adumbo]

It depends on Honda, obviously.

 

I don't see Fred or Jesnon betting Mercedes just yet... Maybe 2016-2017 they can beat Mercedes, but right now Mercedes is just like Williams Renault of 1992 or McLaren in 1998 or Ferrari in 2002.

 

I know obviously about 1988 when McLaren and Honda joined team and they won everything, but those were different circumstances. Ironically they had two of the best drivers in F1 (much like now for McLaren-Honda).

Pretty much what is expected.

Edited by adumbo, 12 December 2014 - 00:01.

[BJHF1]

[Brother Fox]

Awesome line up. Just near on perfect.

Big test for Jenson as Alonso has made his last 2 teammates look pretty pathetic and they were well regarded before (and kind of after with Massa)

I really hope Alonso keeps his millionaire hobo look though and isn't squeezed into corporate blandness by McLaren

[Missedtheapex]

Nobody mentioned about fa denying any Le Mans outing in correspondence to the effort and investment Honda and McLaren put into his signing. He also says he will drive endurance in the future, just not now.

[Owen]

Got to say it's not what I would have picked but I'm still happy with this choice! Bring on the new era.

[showtime]

Nobody mentioned about fa denying any Le Mans outing in correspondence to the effort and investment Honda and McLaren put into his signing. He also says he will drive endurance in the future, just not now.

I did, look for the Alonso to drive for McLaren & Porsche rumour thread    

[Nobody]

Welcome back Fernando!