87 replies to this topic

[kosmos]

1-Hamilton - 194 points
2-Alonso - 155 points
3-Ricciardo - 135 points
4-Bottas -119 points
5-Rosberg - 115 points
6-Massa - 55 points
7-Vettel - 53 points
8-Bianchi - 44 points
9- Button - 40 points
10- Kvyat - 28 points.

 

 

Got it from the last issue of Autosport Magazine.

 

http://www.autosport...t.php/id/117125

Edited by SophieB, 12 December 2014 - 13:04.
added the hyperlink to the source, just for completeness.

[pacificquay]

Awful to say it, but the Bianchi rating is a bit of a sympathy vote

[ensign14]

He's also in the Autosport top 10.  He scored points for Marussia, which was well above expectation. 

 

However, I did have to look up which Toro Rosso driver scored the team's best result, majority of points finishes and three-quarters of its points, as both the team owners and Autosport seem to think it was Kvyat.

[discover23]

That was my list with the exception of # 10 , i had Perez there instead of Kvyat .

[praxos]

That's a great list. I'm glad they did not put Rosberg at the expected number 2 position.

[Borko]

Wow, Alonso is really appreciated by team principals.

[carlt]

Hamiltons contract negotiations just got easier for him

[goingthedistance]

I think the Autosport journalists one was better. Team principals always seem to "lag" a bit with their views.

[ZuTiMa]

Where can I get a list of the last few years Team principal driver of the year voting?

 

Im sure year after year Alonso has been in top 2 or 3

[AlexanderF1]

honestly hamilton doesnt deserve to be first simply because he made to many mistakes(yes he still was super fast in races but had lots of spins and look at his driving at germany crashing into people)  . i dont recall ricciardo making any mistakes(or very few). kyyat in my view is vastly overrated i rember reading that he is a lot lighter than vergne yet only a bit quicker in quali, but you only have to look at the points to see how vergne is much better in the race. but then again im not a team principal what do i know.

[Jon83]

That's a great list. I'm glad they did not put Rosberg at the expected number 2 position.

 

Had they done, there would have been nothing wrong in them doing so. He had an excellent season.

[DrivenF1]

Awful to say it, but the Bianchi rating is a bit of a sympathy vote

 

I disagree. Bianchi was beating faster cars regularly earlier in the season and looked to be performing at an exceedingly high level. Obviously it's difficult to judge because of his car but he looked very impressive behind the wheel. Ferrari rate him very highly too.

 

It depends on how you judge these things, either on a how much did you get out of the car basis or actual achievements or a mixture (naturally). Raikkonen scored more points than Bianchi but did he drive better?

 

Where can I get a list of the last few years Team principal driver of the year voting?

 

Im sure year after year Alonso has been in top 2 or 3

 

He has, Alonso is the most consistent. He's been in the top 2 in the majority of years - usually second.

[Jerem]

Wow, it doesn't really reflect my opinion on the 2014 season whereas previous rankings were quite similar to mine. Hamilton 1st is fair enough but I'd have put Ricciardo. Rosbeg was not so far from Lewis. Alonso was good but not stellar (not that he could be in a bad car). I think Bottas was flattered by the car - so was Massa. And Kvyat, really? RBR and TR bosses voted him first then.

[kraduk]

That's a great list. I'm glad they did not put Rosberg at the expected number 2 position.

 

well he was undoubtedly the biggest looser in the field as he only had to beat hamilton unlike others

[kosmos]

Where can I get a list of the last few years Team principal driver of the year voting?

 

Im sure year after year Alonso has been in top 2 or 3

 

 

The full AUTOSPORT F1 Team Principals' top ten results for 2009 are:

 1. Sebastian Vettel       76
 2. Jenson Button          67
 3. Lewis Hamilton         65
 4. Fernando Alonso        39
 5. Rubens Barrichello     35
 6= Kimi Raikkonen         30
 6= Mark Webber            30
 8. Felipe Massa           19
 9. Robert Kubica          10
10. Adrian Sutil           8

AUTOSPORT team principals' top 10: 2010

 1. Alonso     229
 2. Vettel     220
 3. Hamilton   196
 4. Webber     146
 5. Kubica     129
 6. Button      86
 7. Rosberg     68
 8. Hulkenberg  17
  . Massa       17
10. Barrichello 11

AUTOSPORT TEAM PRINCIPALS' TOP TEN - 2011 RESULTS

 1.  Vettel      241     UP 1
 2.  Button      200     UP 4
 3.  Alonso      188     DOWN 2
 4.  Hamilton    122     DOWN 1
 5.  Rosberg     90      UP 2
 6.  Webber      70      DOWN 2
 7.  Di Resta    44      NEW ENTRY
 8.  Sutil       38      RE-ENTRY FROM 2009
 9.  Kovalainen  26      RE-ENTRY FROM 2008
10.  Schumacher  23      NEW ENTRY

AUTOSPORT team principals' top 10: 2012

 1. Fernando Alonso    269
 2. Sebastian Vettel   198
 3. Lewis Hamilton     177
 4. Kimi Raikkonen     176
 5. Jenson Button      104
 6. Mark Webber        66
 7. Nico Hulkenberg    50
 8. Nico Rosberg       30
 9. Sergio Perez       30
10. Felipe Massa       27

AUTOSPORT'S TEAM PRINCIPALS' TOP 10 DRIVERS 2013

 1 Sebastian Vettel   248
 2 Fernando Alonso    213
 3 Kimi Raikkonen     158
 4 Lewis Hamilton     117
 5 Nico Rosberg       95
 6 Romain Grosjean    76
 7 Nico Hulkenberg    68
 8 Mark Webber          66
 9 Jenson Button      24
10 Felipe Massa       14
 

Edited by kosmos, 12 December 2014 - 13:39.

[maverick69]

That's a great list. I'm glad they did not put Rosberg at the expected number 2 position.

I think it's because quite a few of them still *think* that Nico fenced it in Monaco on purpose.....

[jimmonson]

No problem with Hamilton being top , he is the Champion and a top driver .  The team principles must think that Ferrari was an absolute dog to put Alonso that high up the list and above say Riccardio  who beat the 4 times champion Vettel . (I still think the Red Bull is a great car for grip ) .  The car certainly is a big part of the F1 driver equation .

 

But just 40 points for Button this year ? Behind Bianchi , Vettel and Massa ? Surprised they didn't stick Magnusson ahead of him for good measure .  Cant agree there , did they not look at the McLaren team mess ups he had to deal with  this year ?     Maybe Team Principles form their opinions by reading what journalists write ?   

[goingthedistance]

Just goes to show what they know. In 2013 Ricciardo wasn't even on their list even though I'd argue he performed much better than Kyvat has this year (i.e. he kicked JEV's backside), and he goes straight to P3 this year. It's all about hype. 

[PARAZAR]

I don't agree with that list. Personally, this is how I would put it:

 

1. LEWIS HAMILTON 

2. DANIEL RICCIARDO

3. NICO ROSBERG 

4. FERNANDO ALONSO 

5. VALTTERI BOTTAS 

6. JENSON BUTTON

7. SEBASTIAN VETTEL

8. FELIPE MASSA 

9. JULES BIANCHI
10. DANIIL KVYAT

[noikeee]

Just goes to show what they know. In 2013 Ricciardo wasn't even on their list even though I'd argue he performed much better than Kyvat has this year (i.e. he kicked JEV's backside), and he goes straight to P3 this year. It's all about hype. 

 

But they know so much more than we do because they have "data". 

[Afterburner]

Where can I get a list of the last few years Team principal driver of the year voting?

Im sure year after year Alonso has been in top 2 or 3

SV and FA were seen as class of the field until SV put in a shocker this year (ballpark rounding suggests they've 'scored' about the same, though I'm not sure I would've given SV top honors by the margin he received it in '09). Don't know what the F happened to SebVet, but he needs to get his excrement together ASAP. Guess we'll find out more next year.

EDIT: Mathed out from '09 to'14, the rankings are:

FA: 1151.5
SV: 1150

So over the past 6 years the TPs see 1.5 points between them. [/proroundingskillz]

Edited by Afterburner, 12 December 2014 - 13:59.

[DrivenF1]

It's surprising that Massa was put 6th. Autosport also put him on a similar level. Massa was good but no more impressive than Button or Hulkenberg. Massa was incredibly average at overtaking like in previous years and was generally noticeable slower than Bottas in Q (about 1-2 tenths).

 

I'd have expected him somewhere between 9-14 on the list. Perhaps his late season surge and Abu Dhabi result were behind the rating.

 

I think his starts have been something else this year - I'd say the best on the grid but race craft and qualifying could have been better.

[praxos]

I think it's because quite a few of them still *think* that Nico fenced it in Monaco on purpose.....

No, I think it's because Rosberg only beat Lewis 4 times in races, and on 2 of those occasions Lewis started from the back of the grid after his car failed in qualifying. You don't deserve to be rated 2nd in a season if that happens regardless of almost winning the title.

[discover23]

 The team principles must think that Ferrari was an absolute dog to put Alonso that high up the list and above say Riccardio  who beat the 4 times champion Vettel .

and you think it was not?

[DrivenF1]

I think the list should have been:

 

1. Hamilton

2. Ricciardo (both Hamilton and Ricciardo were excellent)

3. Alonso

 

4. Rosberg

5. Bottas

6. Button

7. Vettel

8. Hulkenberg

9. Grosjean

10. Bianchi

11. Massa/Perez

 

Just my opinion having analysed the season in a lot of detail.

[trogggy]

These list are always skewed towards drivers in good cars.

I don't question that TPs have more information to go on than we do, more understanding, more knowledge etc etc.

And yet I do wonder how many actually give a toss when they make their lists.

[krobinson]

Vettel 7th?

Button only 9th?

[DrivenF1]

These list are always skewed towards drivers in good cars.

I don't question that TPs have more information to go on than we do, more understanding, more knowledge etc etc.

And yet I do wonder how many actually give a toss when they make their lists.

 

They're obviously still really biased too. In 2011 Kovalainen got 26 points, perhaps Caterham TP gave him 25 points and one person put him 10th. At the end of the day the drivers will see this list so you want to give your driver a confidence boost!

 

They're right to publish only the top 10, you'd be really annoyed if even your team principal didn't give you a point.

[Jimisgod]

Awful to say it, but the Bianchi rating is a bit of a sympathy vote

Bullshit he was far and away the best driver in the dud teams. How Vettel is in front of him is anyone's guess.

Button was arguably better though.

[F1Newbie]

I think it's because quite a few of them still *think* that Nico fenced it in Monaco on purpose.....

 

And let's not forget Spa.

[Lights]

Forever underrated.

[aramos]

I find the lack of Hulkenberg strange. Does anyone really think he wouldn't be matching Bottas and Massa in the Williams?

[robefc]

These list are always skewed towards drivers in good cars.
I don't question that TPs have more information to go on than we do, more understanding, more knowledge etc etc.
And yet I do wonder how many actually give a toss when they make their lists.

If they really didn't give a toss I would expect to see Maldonado somewhere high up the list

What I never understand is why those ratings don't focus on the teammate battle more. I would start by ranking the 'winning driver' in each team and then look at the second drivers and see whether I could justify putting them above any drivers who beat their teammate. So you might bump Rosberg into the too 10 because you feel he was up against the best ever...ahem sorry, managed to catch that fanboy slide...a driver generally considered to be one of the top few and ran him quite close. But the starting point should be that the only true barometer of performance is your teammate so if they beat you then you have a hard job getting in top 10 drivers.

Given the TPs don't adhere to this maybe there is a bigger disparity between driver talent than is commonly claimed so that losing to a perceived 'good driver' means you still have a good shot of being rated higher than someone who beat a 'bad' driver.

None of that accounts for JB being behind Vettel!

[metz]

Peter Sauber once admitted that the team principals don't vote for the driver they really want for fear it will drive up the price.

[HoldenRT]

Call me biased but it's a very strange feeling that Ricciardo can be third in that list and yet still feel like he's been underrated.  There were at least 6-8 races that completely went beyond any expectations of both he has a driver but also the cars pace in general.  It started in the first race of the season, and was also like that at the end.  In the middle were 3 race wins (2 in a row at one point).  Separate from that there was a lot of risk taking and bold overtakes and no mistakes.  It's hard to find any mistakes all season, a couple minor ones but nothing that really cost anything.  The worst was a couple of anonymous races where the car didn't seem to suit the track or below average qualifyings but the race pace was nearly always above expectation.  It's not really a big shame to be behind Alonso or Lewis though as they also drove well.  Although Alonso seemed less... less something (can't find the right word) towards the end of the year.  A part of that was the car's performance but yeah.

 

It's a big strange that on the one hand, people in the media have said how great it was that the Merc drivers had such a close WDC battle and that's what made the season avoid being dull, but on the other hand, the team principles rate one of them first and the other fifth.  Something doesn't add up.  And it's not just the unreliability either.  Rosberg also had poor reliability at times.  And both of them made mistakes.  Lewis nearly always gave a better impression though, in terms of having more pace or being in control of determining what would happen.

 

You can never be happy with any list, there's many ways to look at things and it's hard for one list to always be right.  Everyone has a different criteria so they shouldn't be taken that seriously.  If I had to pick one from this topic, I'd say Cult's list is harder to complain about.

[HoldenRT]

Peter Sauber once admitted that the team principals don't vote for the driver they really want for fear it will drive up the price.

 

Haha, sounds sort of "typical" for F1 in a parody sort of way.  Can't even trust the driver lists due to "money" reasons.

[femi]

Well, it might be a good idea to produce a list if one is unhappy with the TP rankings

[discover23]

Peter Sauber once admitted that the team principals don't vote for the driver they really want for fear it will drive up the price.

That is not really true is you see the inclusion and exclusion of different drivers in various season.. for example Hulk was on the list  a year ago but this year he is not.. same with Kimi... Vettel is way low because he was beaten by Ricciardo and no one really expected that.. I think the list is quite accurate actually based on what we saw this year.. I would have put Button higher and Bottas and Massa about the same..

[McLaren]

The drivers should be allowed to rate the Team Principals... now that would be a good laugh.

[ayanate]

Well done TPs, spot on that Hamilton is the best driver in 2014. Yes he had the best car by a mile but he overcame a lot of adversity, withstood a lot of pressure and delivered in every race that he could finish. I for one have been getting irritated by the media trying to claim that Alonso is considered the best, on what they are basing this on, I would like to know. TPs know more than journos regarding what is required to be a WDC . What if Jenson beats Alonso next season, what would they say then? 

[Markn93]

I think the problem with this list is some TPs interpret it as the top 10 performances in 2014 whereas others see it as who the best drivers are (with 2014 obviously now factored in). Frankly I'm not sure what it's supposed to be either, although I suspect the latter.

[MP422]

and you think it was not?

 

 

Lotus was a dog, The ferrari was about as good as the Mclaren. Excluding Mercedes amg..... 3/4th best car with Mclaren. Not the best but not so much of a dog.

[MP422]

Well done TPs, spot on that Hamilton is the best driver in 2014. Yes he had the best car by a mile but he overcame a lot of adversity, withstood a lot of pressure and delivered in every race that he could finish. I for one have been getting irritated by the media trying to claim that Alonso is considered the best, on what they are basing this on, I would like to know. TPs know more than journos regarding what is required to be a WDC . What if Jenson beats Alonso next season, what would they say then? 

 

 

Alonso fans would never hear the end of that.

Edited by MP422, 12 December 2014 - 16:47.

[kosmos]

The drivers should be allowed to rate the Team Principals... now that would be a good laugh.

 

Claire Williams will get all the votes

Edited by kosmos, 12 December 2014 - 16:36.

[McLaren]

Claire Williams will get all the votes

 

I think it would be funny to see who the bottom ranked TP is rather than the top.

[Biggles Flies Undone]

 

honestly hamilton doesnt deserve to be first simply because he made to many mistakes(yes he still was super fast in races but had lots of spins and look at his driving at germany crashing into people)  . i dont recall ricciardo making any mistakes(or very few). kyyat in my view is vastly overrated i rember reading that he is a lot lighter than vergne yet only a bit quicker in quali, but you only have to look at the points to see how vergne is much better in the race. but then again im not a team principal what do i know.

Alonso spun more than once. You just didn't see it as the cameras understandably focus on the front runners.

Edited by Biggles Flies Undone, 12 December 2014 - 17:32.

[Biggles Flies Undone]

Alonso finished 6th in the WDC. It's a joke that some team principles ranked him ahead of race winner Ricciardo.

[HPT]

They're obviously still really biased too. In 2011 Kovalainen got 26 points, perhaps Caterham TP gave him 25 points and one person put him 10th. At the end of the day the drivers will see this list so you want to give your driver a confidence boost!

They're right to publish only the top 10, you'd be really annoyed if even your team principal didn't give you a point.

IIRC team principals can't vote for their own drivers

[Kalmake]

Alonso was amazing. He beat a Williams and almost a RBR in points. In that car. Easily deserved second only to Hamilton who was perhaps better than ever.

 

I would have Hülk in the top 10. TPs never seem to rate him.

[garoidb]

Well done TPs, spot on that Hamilton is the best driver in 2014. Yes he had the best car by a mile but he overcame a lot of adversity, withstood a lot of pressure and delivered in every race that he could finish. I for one have been getting irritated by the media trying to claim that Alonso is considered the best, on what they are basing this on, I would like to know. TPs know more than journos regarding what is required to be a WDC . What if Jenson beats Alonso next season, what would they say then? 

 

If your doubts are based on something that hasn't happened, then that speaks for itself.  After all, what if Kimi had beaten him in 2014, what would they say then?