26 replies to this topic

[Dipster]

I get to visit the circuit at Portimao (Algarve, Portugal) quite often. Many of the few races held there are relatively poorly subscribed. Consequently cars often get strung out quite quickly. Thus racers are not really racing each other and spectators see what are really just demonstration runs. Not much fun for either.

 

Originally it was hoped that F1 would make use of the track. It does have quite good facilities. As it stands it is, in my opinion, desperately in need of a short cut built in to produce a club circuit. This would, by closing up the cars and bikes, make it more fun for competitors on the on track, give more excitement for spectators and have the added bonus of needing less marshals.

 

What do you think?

[K20a]

Iirc they held a pre season test or two there back in 2009? From what I remember the circuit is nice despite the fact it rained for the entire test.

[BRG]

Shortening a track won't make races closer.  If someone is faster, they are faster, whether the lap is 1km or 25km long.  

 

But a club track does save on resources, which is why most tracks have a shorter version.

[TheRacingElf]

Why aren't there some more international races held at Portimao by the way?

[Dipster]

Shortening a track won't make races closer.  If someone is faster, they are faster, whether the lap is 1km or 25km long.  

 

But a club track does save on resources, which is why most tracks have a shorter version.

It seemed logical to me that if you have, say, 10 cars spread over 2 kms instead of 4 the faster ones will get to lap slower ones more often and spectators will see the cars twice as many times for a given race distance. No?  

[Seanspeed]

It seemed logical to me that if you have, say, 10 cars spread over 2 kms instead of 4 the faster ones will get to lap slower ones more often and spectators will see the cars twice as many times for a given race distance. No?

Seeing cars more often is not the same thing as 'closer racing', I think is the point.

[johnmhinds]

Why does it need shortening?

 

At 4.6km it's already shorter than the majority of major circuits, Silverstone 5.9km, Suzuka 5.8km, Monza 5.7km, etc... for example.

[Nonesuch]

Here's a map of the circuit for those who were, like me, unaware of the layout.

 

It looks like it could be possible to cut from T4 to T9, or T6 to T13, with perhaps a small corner inbetween. Who knows!

 

 

Why does it need shortening?

 

At 4.6km it's already shorter than the majority of major circuits, Silverstone 5.9km, Suzuka 5.8km, Monza 5.7km, etc... for example.

 

True, but the idea to bunch things up on a 'club circuit' isn't that uncommon, even at the tracks you mention. Silverstone has a 2.6 km 'National Circuit', and a 3.0 km 'International Circuit' it uses for special events as well. Suzuka can be split up into a 'West' and 'East' circuit of 3.5 and 2.2 km respectively.

Edited by Nonesuch, 15 December 2014 - 12:16.

[johnmhinds]

What are you going to do to make a shorter circuit though?

 

 

Shortcut from T4-T9 or T6-T14? neither looks very exciting or improves the track.

Edited by johnmhinds, 15 December 2014 - 12:36.

[noikeee]

From memory of onboards etc I think 4 to 9 would be a MASSIVE slope. Basically like going up a wall. 6 to 13 might be doable, not sure, there might be some facility there.

 

As a Portuguese I should be hyping the track, but I actually hate driving it in sims. It looks really great on TV with the huge elevation changes, and I'm sure it's tons of fun in real life, but in sim it's all awkward slow corners where you can't see any apex... ugh.

[Dipster]

I would go for T6 to T13 or 13 and a half! There is actually a gradient between the two parts of the track but I Think it could be built up artificially to make it work well as you would have quite a run downhill from T5 to get momentum. I doubt that it would cost a fortune but I feel it would make a good little club circuit.

[Risil]

As a Portuguese I should be hyping the track, but I actually hate driving it in sims. It looks really great on TV with the huge elevation changes, and I'm sure it's tons of fun in real life, but in sim it's all awkward slow corners where you can't see any apex... ugh.

 

Seem to remember hearing words to that effect from WSBK riders who have raced there too. Spectacular and very challenging, but also fiddly and without flow or much enjoyment.

 

Estoril, on the other hand, has never produced anything other than fantastic racing.

[chunder27]

Its a bike track, always has been really. Part funded a few teams and used a hell of a lot for track days and testing.

 

They shouold have MotoGP there but for some reason ahve 4 races in Spain.  I wonder why that might be?

 

They ran out of money I think and perhaps were shafted by Bernie or Dorna with a GP/F1 promise. Not sure

[Clatter]

Why does it need shortening?

 

At 4.6km it's already shorter than the majority of major circuits, Silverstone 5.9km, Suzuka 5.8km, Monza 5.7km, etc... for example.

But at Silverstone they have several shorter circuit permitations as well. The OP is not suggesting that the main circuit be shortened, just that alternative circuits be available for the smaller\slower classes. Makes sense to me.

[midgrid]

The owners of the track have begun negotiations to host a revived Portuguese Grand Prix.

[Fastcake]

The Portuguese economy is bouncing back after a tough period and the government is believed to be in a position to supply funds - providing the fee is sensible.

 

 

The bolded bit being the most important, as ever. We certainly haven't had any indication of lower fees so far.

[Prost1997T]

VdeV is quite well subscribed, they have it on their calendar and hold multiple races on the weekend (whether they be endurance, single-seater etc). I don't see why the track owners would need to change the layout if it's making money.

[Frank Tuesday]

That last corner looks too fast for an F1 car.  Plenty of room for a chicane, though. 

[Prost1997T]

That last corner looks too fast for an F1 car.  Plenty of room for a chicane, though. 

 

Oh man, don't give them any ideas   

[noikeee]

Well this might just give me the chance to finally go watch a F1 race. Not sure I'm okay with paying much tax cash for this though.

[Andy35]

An F1 race at Portimao would be far better than at several other circuits.  Nobody who has driven it has complained, the bikers I think like it and it looks like for F1 it should provide good racing.

 

Get rid of Monaco,  use this track,  build a casino and a big pond called "harbour",  

 

 

It also has good vertical relief

 

You can't beat quick up and down motions on a weekend.

 

 

Andy

Edited by Andy35, 06 June 2017 - 17:07.

[OO7]

It looks pretty typical of a model circuit to me.  I would have much preferred if Estoril had an overhaul, but that isn't going to happen for financial reasons as far as I know.

[Victor_RO]

That last corner looks too fast for an F1 car.  Plenty of room for a chicane, though. 

 

The last corner has a tighter double-apex shortcut that might be "slow" enough. https://www.google.c...m/data=!3m1!1e3

[Kristian]

It saddens me we even have to use the phrase a corner is "too fast for an F1 car". F1 cars should revel in speed. 

Edited by Kristian, 07 June 2017 - 09:56.

[Clatter]

It saddens me we even have to use the phrase a corner is "too fast for an F1 car". F1 cars should revel in speed.

If only F1 cars had some sort of device to help them slow down.

[Cenotaph]

Portimão's layout for F1 testing and GP2 included that long last corner, so I don't see the big deal.

The only change for open seaters is that dreadful chicane in T1.

The layout is fun, but not really built for exciting F1 races so don't get your hopes up.

[MattK9]

As a Portuguese I should be hyping the track, but I actually hate driving it in sims. It looks really great on TV with the huge elevation changes, and I'm sure it's tons of fun in real life, but in sim it's all awkward slow corners where you can't see any apex... ugh.

 

From the sims i used to love this track. I had one of the WSBK games. The first half of the circuit is a bit awkward slow corners, but the last half is fantastic with good elevation change. Turns 10 - 13 was a favourite part of the track. Like a roller coaster. 

 

The last 2 corners are both double apex corners which means there is plenty of scope for multiple racing lines around those 2 corners. That equals great overtaking down the main straight into turn 1. I would love to see F1 here.