36 replies to this topic

[dgs]

The Ferguson P99-01, front engined four wheel drive Grand Prix car entered quite a number of different motorsport series during the period 1961-1964. These include:

 

Inter-Continental Formula.

 

July 1961:  British Empire Trophy (Silverstone)  Jack Fairman, retired 1 lap  (2.5 litre)

 

Grand Prix.

 

July 1961:  British Grand Prix (Silverstone)  Jack Fairman/Stirling Moss,  black flagged, 56 laps,  push start (1.5 litre)

 

Non-Championship Formula 1 race.

 

September 1961:  Gold Cup  (Oulton Park)  Stirling Moss, won race

  (1.5 litre)

 

Tasman Formula

 

January/February 1963: Six races, three each for Graham Hill and Innes Ireland, best result 2nd  (2.5 litre)

 

European Mountain Climbs

 

August 1963:  Ollon-Villars, Jo Bonnier btd (new record 4'23.0")  (2.5 litre)

 

RAC British Hillclimb Championship

 

1964:  Peter Westbury won nine out of the fourteen rounds to win Championship  (2.5 litre)

 

Also during August 1963 the Ferguson P99-01 (with 2.5 litre engine) was shipped to Indianapolis Speedway at request of Andy Granatelli  (STP Team) to check out suitability of car prior to requesting the Ferguson factory to produce the Ferguson P104-Nova car for 1964 Indiianapolis 500 race. Jack Fairman and Bobby Marshman tested the P99 at Indianapolis, Bobby Marshman achieving average speed over 141mph. 

 

So the P99 was driven in the contemporary events by a World Championship Grand Prix driver, Graham Hill, Four Grand Prix winning drivers Stirling Moss, Graham Hill, Innes Ireland, Jo Bonnier, and driven by six Grand Prix drivers, as with the four mentioned above, both Jack Fairman and Peter Westbury had taken part in GP's. Peter Westbury driving a works BRM P153 car in 1970 United States Grand Prix. 

 

Has another Grand Prix car been driven in so many different formula's? 

[Rupertlt1]

The Ferguson also ran with Peter Westbury in the 1964 Drag Festival:

 

http://www.motorspor...rguson-research

 

As well as the Brighton Speed Trials that year?

 

RGDS RLT 

[Jerry Entin]

Lotus 18 getting Offenhauser power Bob Higman in hat putting the 255 cu in engine in chassis

This car belonged to Ralph Taylor and the engine was done by Gil Morcroft

 

The Lotus 18, chassis 907, probably comes closest. Originally owned by Jim Hall and raced by him with a 2.5-liter Climax in the 1960 US GP at Riverside, it went to Frank Harrison in 1961. Lloyd Ruby raced it for Harrison with a 1.5-liter Climax in the US GP at the Glen.

 

In April 1962 Ruby ran it again for Harrison, with a 2.5-liter Climax at Hilltop in Louisiana. It was a Formula Libre raced hosted by USAC and the car ran as a Formula Intercontinental.

 

In June 1962 Harrison raced it himself, with Smokey Drolet as co-driver, in the Columbia 4 Hours in South Carolina. On this road course it carried a 1.5-liter Ford under SCCA rules.

 

By 1963 Ruby raced the Harrison Lotus 18 on the ovals at Trenton and Milwaukee, with 2.7-liter Climax and a slightly longer wheelbase, to accommodate the USAC rules.

 

After Harrison sold the car, various people tried the Offenhauser and Chevy route for chassis 907, without achieving much success on the USAC ovals.

 

all research: Willem Oosthoek

photo: Bill Wiswedel collection

Edited by Jerry Entin, 18 December 2014 - 00:23.

[Ray Bell]

Another was the Lotus 39...

Although not raced in the 1.5-litre F1, it was specifically built for it with the chassis jigged to take the long-expected Coventry-Climax flat 16 engine.

It was revised at the end of 1965 by Lotus to take a 2.5-litre Coventry-Climax FPF engine and raced under the Tasman Formula in that form.

The same formula rules applied to ANF1 (Australian National Formula 1) and it raced on in Leo Geoghegan's hands with an engine change during 1966 to the Repco-Brabham 2.5-litre V8. Of course, it grew wings in this period.

I don't know what formula the Japan Grand Prix of 1969 was held under, but Leo took the car there and won under that formula.

As the car aged it moved into the lower category, ANF2, using a twin-cam Ford 1600cc engine.

[f1steveuk]

Just out of curiousity, because I have never really studied this car, if this is about chassis 1, how many chassis were built, and run, and how many are left? All I know of it is that Stirling said he loved it!

Edited by f1steveuk, 17 December 2014 - 10:33.

[David Beard]

Just out of curiousity, because I have never really studies this car, if this is about chassis 1, how many chassis were built, and run, and how many are left? All I know of it is that Stirling said he loved it!

There was only ever the one F1 car, surely?

[Ray Bell]

I believe that is correct...

Just the one. And I'd say it was conceived for the 2.5-litre F1 but wasn't completed in time. And the formula change caught it out.

[opplock]

Another Lotus 18 with a varied career is the Parnell built P1. It was raced by Tony Shelly in the 1962 British GP and a number of non-championship races with 1.5 litre 4 cylinder Climax engine. He then raced it in the 1963 NZ international series with 2.7l FPF and the 1964 Tasman series with 2.5l engine. The car was sold to Johnny Riley who used it in the 1965 and 1966 series. 

 

Riley then converted the car into a sports car (entered as a 19B) using a 4.5l Traco Olds engine. The car was later sold and entered in 1970/71 as the GEMCO, driven by Gary Pedersen. When a 2 litre limit was imposed on sports car racing the car reappeared powered by a Lotus Twincam engine. 

[Macca]

How about Lotus 25 c/n R4? Won WC GPs with Clark powered by Coventry-Climax V8, converted to BRM V8 for the Parnell team, then badly crashed at Spa and re-tubbed as R13, then an enlarged BRM V8 for the 3-litre formula in 1966, then converted into a Formula 2 car for 1967 with a Cosworth FVA, then started to be converted with a BRM V12 3-litre in 1968 but unfinished. 

 

And Lotus 25 R3 started with a Climax V8, then a BRM V8, then an enlarged BRM V8 for the 3-litre formula and in the Tasman races, then fitted with a Daimler V8 by Peter Hughes, then a Ford 1.5-litre.

 

Paul M

[opplock]

Macca, most sources state that the car raced in NZ by Peter Yock and Peter Hughes was the rebuilt R4. The car was later owned by John Dawson-Dahmer and John Bowers. The Daimler engine was used due to it being too expensive to repair the BRM. Of course obsolete racing cars weren't worth much back then.

[Tim Murray]

That info has now been superseded - the Dawson-Damer car is now accepted as being R3. See this post from Doug:
 

Paul,

The Parnell F2 used, I am sure, the monocoque tub of Mike Spence's 1966 F1 Parnell-team Lotus-BRM 33...the car we came to know as R13. Its front end was modified to accept Les Redmond-style outboard-coil/damper suspension as used successfully on the 1966 Parnell-BRM sports car. Its rear bay housed a standard 1.6-litre Cosworth FVA 4-cyl engine. The car has come down to us today via some 40 years display at Donington as Lotus 25 'R7'. In fact R7 exited the scene in 1965...fate as yet unconfirmed, although - I have just been told this morning - it was written off due to a testing accident while being driven by "some Dutchman". This rings the faintest of bells...and the name Rob Slotemaker springs to mind...but I really hope that thereby I am not doing his memory a grave disservice?

While we thought for years that R3 was the 'lost Lotus 25' in fact it survived, went to New Zealand and thence to John Dawson-Damer as what he, and we, thought was 'R4'. Explaining the full story in just three magazine pages was never ever going to be easy. But having discovered the error it would have been wrong to ignore it. Sorry it's confusing.

DCN

and if you have access to the August 2013 edition of Motor Sport, there's a fuller explanation from Doug there.

[opplock]

Thanks Tim. I do now recall the article. It appeared in the same issue as David Coulthard's impressions of driving the car - reported as being R4 in a Telegraph article about that drive, published May 2013 and still on the web. The car is still described as being R4/R13 on the ORC and Sports Car Digest websites.

 

The car was entered as Lotus 33 R13 during its life in NZ. Peter Yock wouldn't have been the first (or the last) antipodean driver to have received something other than what he had contracted to buy.     

[Paul Hamilton]

Thanks Tim. I do now recall the article. It appeared in the same issue as David Coulthard's impressions of driving the car - reported as being R4 in a Telegraph article about that drive, published May 2013 and still on the web. The car is still described as being R4/R13 on the ORC and Sports Car Digest websites.

 

The car was entered as Lotus 33 R13 during its life in NZ. Peter Yock wouldn't have been the first (or the last) antipodean driver to have received something other than what he had contracted to buy.     

 

I don't think John Bowers is yet prepared to relinquish his claim to identify his car as R4.

[Ray Bell]

Nevertheless...

Despite the number of engine changes, the number of formulae is still only three.

[Tim Murray]

I don't think John Bowers is yet prepared to relinquish his claim to identify his car as R4.

The evidence, as presented by Doug in his Motor Sport article, seems pretty conclusive. The revised thinking came about after Doug and Andy Willis of Hall & Hall carried out a comprehensive race-by-race analysis of the photographic evidence relating to each 25/33 chassis, looking at different rivet patterns, variation in front and rear suspension mountings etc.

The car known as ‘R13’ was one of only two cars (the other being R11) modified at some stage to accept a BRM gearbox with left-hand gearchange. This entailed cutting a gearchange aperture into the left-hand pontoon. Photos of the Dawson-Damer car, going right back to when D-D acquired the derelict chassis tub, show no evidence of this mod. The chassis now believed to be ‘R13’ (formerly believed to be R7) does have evidence of this mod.

[Paul Hamilton]

The evidence, as presented by Doug in his Motor Sport article, seems pretty conclusive. The revised thinking came about after Doug and Andy Willis of Hall & Hall carried out a comprehensive race-by-race analysis of the photographic evidence relating to each 25/33 chassis, looking at different rivet patterns, variation in front and rear suspension mountings etc.

The car known as ‘R13’ was one of only two cars (the other being R11) modified at some stage to accept a BRM gearbox with left-hand gearchange. This entailed cutting a gearchange aperture into the left-hand pontoon. Photos of the Dawson-Damer car, going right back to when D-D acquired the derelict chassis tub, show no evidence of this mod. The chassis now believed to be ‘R13’ (formerly believed to be R7) does have evidence of this mod.

 

I am aware of all that, Tim, and so is John Bowers who I believe has discussed it all with Doug Nye but remains unconvinced.  He has other family priorities at present but when last I saw him he remained unconvinced and was relying on other evidence of his own.  I suggest that the jury is still out!!

[dgs]

The Ferguson P99-01 car also has another claim to fame in that it is one of a small number of car chassis that have won a F1 race (non-championship) and a round of the RAC British Hill climb Championship, since the World Championship was formed in 1950. Being achieved by the two drivers Stirling Moss and Peter Westbury. A couple of other cars achieved this using two different drivers.

 

I believe the only time this feat has been achieved by same driver is by Tony Marsh. He won the non-championship V Lewis-Evans Trophy (Brands Hatch) on 1st October 1961 in BRM P48, chassis 484. He also won a number of Championship rounds of the hillclimb championship in this car (such as Shelsley Walsh 27th August 1961, and Shelsley Walsh 26th August 1962).

 

He had also achieved this feat in Formula 2, as he won the IV Lewis-Evans Trophy in his Lotus 18-909 on 16th October 1960, and also won a number of hillclimb championship rounds in this car, such as Rest-and-be-Thankful on 1st July 1961.

 

Before the Second World War, (and the advent of the Grand Prix World Championship)/ or the RAC Hillclimb Championship) it was achieved by a couple of drivers Raymond Mays (ERA) and Whitney Straight (Maserati 8CM) in either minor Grand Prix races or Voiturette races.  

[Jerry Entin]

Lotus 18 # 907 in it's Pavement Modified guise

This car was now owned by Bernie Bennett of Union City it was running a 355 cu in chevy with Hilborn Injection on Alchol and used a Halibrand 2 speed gearbox and Girling brakes, this picture is from 1977 at Kalamazoo Speedway.

 

In February of 1984 the car was purchased by Bill Wiswedel of Holland, Michigan and he sold the car the next year to Michael Beal of Tecumseh, Ontario Canada. Michael restored the car to the 1960 Jim Hall configuration.

 

photo: Bill Wiswedel collection

all research: Bill Wiswedel

Edited by Jerry Entin, 18 December 2014 - 00:40.

[Ray Bell]

I think that means the Lotus 18 No 907 competed in these formulae:

1. 2.5-litre F1
2. 1.5-litre F1
3. Formula Intercontinental
4. SCCA Formula B
5. USAC Champcar formula

I'm assuming here that the Columbia 4-hour race was for open-wheelers and it wasn't converted to a sports racer.

Just the sort of car Bill would own at some time or another!

[Jerry Entin]

 

Ray: That Columbia 4 Hours has long been a complete mystery since there was no media coverage. Only after tracking down a race report in the local paper, triggered by a 3-hour [sic] race event mentioned in Frank Harrison's personal race log, did it become apparent the event actually took place. It was for sportsracers and production cars, and featured entries such as Art Huttinger's Lister/Chevy, Charlie Kolb's Maserati 300S and Jack Ryan's Porsche RSK. Harrison's Lotus 18 was the only open-wheeler and his engine size must have been too large for a Formula Junior class.

 

Nevertheless, I am sure the organizing Central Carolina Region was glad to accommodate his entry and he must have run as Formula Libre or Formula Senior [as Bob Schroeder's 1.5-liter Mecom deTomaso did in Texas and Louisiana in 1962].

 

all research: Willem Oosthoek

[Doug Nye]

Regarding the R3/R4 confusion, I still feel badly about it, since I was largely responsible for the original misidentification of the Donington supposed 'R7' through a) being sufficiently naive to believe information provided indirectly from Tim Parnell and directly from Colin Chapman (and Tom Wheatcroft), and b) being negligent enough not to have studied closely at the time every inch of the car's tub, or alternatively being simply too ignorant then to appreciate that I should have done so...

 

Reliant upon decades of misguided confidence, I much later played a role in assuring John Bowers that the Dawson-Damer car was indeed the mortal remains of 'R4', as Bun himself had long been certain, having also based a proportion of his confidence in my 30-plus year old research and writings.

 

It was only when a new owner had purchased the Donington car, and Hall & Hall's lads were stripping it, that an old non-Lotus chassis number inscription was noticed, scratched into the aluminium - reading 'R4'. That set the hare running which wound up with Andy Willis of Hall & Hall and myself spending four months or so poring over literally hundreds of photographs and whatever contemporary documentation we could find. As far as I am concerned the evidence we found is irrefutable - in essence I simply ballsed-up the whole thing up back in 1970-71, admittedly with a little help from then better-qualified people whom I both respected and trusted...

 

Being then in possession of that knowledge, that the metalwork constituting the heart of the real works 'R4' had been damaged beyond re-use at Spa in the 1965 Belgian GP - that the Parnell team built up a replacement car around a fresh tub in time for the 1965 Italian GP - and that this tub then came down to us via the Donington Collection to pass to its current UK owner - made me aware that the Parnell/Yock/Dawson-Damer tub could not possibly embody the remains of 'R4'.  Further evidence convinces me it is in fact the remains of 'R3', while the other Parnell team candidate 'R7' was in fact destroyed in a hushed-up testing accident in period.

 

Once convinced of all this knowledge, I felt the only honourable thing to do was to let John Bowers know first.

 

Which I did. Secondly, I thought it only right to set the printed record straight for posterity - which with 'Motor Sport's help I did next.

 

Of course, I could have got it wrong in 2013-14, rather than in 1970-71, and maybe I should be content that some people think I did...but as far as I am concerned the evidence overwhelmingly indicates otherwise.  The phrase 'pity the poor historian' rather temptingly springs to mind, but I won't cop out and lean upon it. 

 

I just feel we have now done the right thing...

 

DCN   

[opplock]

I just feel we have now done the right thing...

 

DCN   

Thank you for this explanation. I am sure that anyone with a serious interest in motor racing history will agree that it is essential to publish new evidence. I also doubt that anyone would have questioned information supplied by people such as Chapman and Parnell in 1970 unless it was inconsistent.

[Tim Murray]

Agreed absolutely.

[Macca]

Nevertheless...

Despite the number of engine changes, the number of formulae is still only three.

1.5 litre F1, 3-litre F1, Tasman, F2 1.6-litre..........and I don't even know what the series was called where it used the Daimler or yet the Ford.

 

Paul

Edited by Macca, 18 December 2014 - 15:14.

[f1steveuk]

It's inspired a fair few slot cars, although none appear to have FWD, and this little beauty

 

[kayemod]

It's inspired a fair few slot cars, although none appear to have FWD, and this little beauty

 

 

You may very well think that Steve, but you'd be wrong, here's just one that I remember from my teenage slot racing years. There were quite a few others at the time too, I made one myself, but this is the only one I can remember that incorporated almost all the real thing's dynamic features.

 

 

This one was built by fellow Ashton slot racing club member Dave Lord in 1964. It was 1/32nd scale, which makes it around 5" long and under 2½" wide, it's built around a K's Mk 1 electric motor, and incorporates four wheel drive with steerable front wheels, springs formed the universal joints, and I'm pretty sure that it incorporated sprung suspension all round. As well as being the best driver in the club, and possibly in the whole Country, Dave was a quite brilliant miniature engineer, he made everything himself, almost nothing could be bought ready made back then other than a few tyres and gears. He carved a wood pattern, and vac-formed his lovely little Ferguson body from acetate sheet. This car performed as well as it looked, being fully competitive at the top level. Ashton was just about the top club in the Country in those days, certainly in the north of England. I was just starting in the hobby, and Dave was almost a God, but a lovely guy and unfailingly patient and helpful to juniors like me, sadly he left us, emigrating to Australia a few months later. Besides Dave and me, other Ashton club members at the time included a very young Ross Brawn, yes that Ross Brawn, of who did of course progress to slightly greater things in the car racing line.

Edited by kayemod, 18 December 2014 - 17:43.

[opplock]

1.5 litre F1, 3-litre F1, Tasman, F2 1.6-litre..........and I don't even know what the series was called where it used the Daimler or yet the Ford.

 

Paul

The Daimler engine was built for 1969 Tasman formula races, the 1,580cc ford twin cam (as listed in programmes of the period) used in 1970 National Formula races. That formula used 1.5 litre engines until 1969, the capacity limit increased to 1.6 litres for 1970. NF was scrapped at the end of the 1970 season, some of the cars (mostly mid-60s Brabham and Lotus F3 chassis) were then converted for use in Formula Ford.   

[dgs]

It appears that another Grand Prix driver tried out the Ferguson P99 at the 1961 Oulton Park 'Gold Cup' non-championship F1 race.

 

Graham Hill (who was entered in a Works BRM 48/57 car) tried out the Ferguson during practice.  

 

Source 'The Formula One Record Book' has details, (but no practice time) plus it also has a picture of Graham Hill in the car.

 

Graham Hill of course would be re-united with the car at later Tasman events.

[f1steveuk]

I stand happily corrected, minature FWD, excellent!!

[Ray Bell]

I sense a problem here...

The Ferguson competed in the New Zealand and Australian International events of 1963. That was prior to the Tasman Cup series and there was no formula for those races.

[opplock]

I sense a problem here...

The Ferguson competed in the New Zealand and Australian International events of 1963. That was prior to the Tasman Cup series and there was no formula for those races.

Doesn't the term Formule Libre best describe those races?    

[Ray Bell]

Yes, it does...

However, by its very nature, 'Formula Libre' means that there is no formula. Additionally, because the car ran a 2.5 engine, it can't be said to be running Formula Intercontinental, which some said they were doing at the time.

[Rob Ryder]

Can anyone identify the driver of the Ferguson P99 in these 2 photos in the Revs Archive?

https://revslib.stan...log/tv673ty1359
https://revslib.stan...log/mv548xt8735

They are from the 1961 British Empire Trophy when Jack Fairman drove the car, but it isn't him IMO.

Tony Rolt was involved in the Ferguson 4WD project so maybe it is him giving the P99 a run in practice?

Here are enlargements of the driver in question...




Thanks
Rob

[Roger Clark]

The second picture appears in Autocourse. The caption says it's Rolt.

[Rob Ryder]

The second picture appears in Autocourse. The caption says it's Rolt.

 
Thanks Roger 

[dgs]

An article on the Sanderson 'Twinny' car suggest that in 1964 Peter Westbury 'loaned' the Ferguson P99 car to Tony Marsh at one of the 1964  'dragfest' meetings.

 

As Tony Marsh had entered World Championship Grand Prix's this now (with the earlier post of Tony Rolt) trying out the Ferguson at 1961 British Empire Inter-Continental meeting, means eight GP drivers have driven the car.

 

Stirling Moss - Graham Hill-Jack Fairman-Innes Ireland-Jo Bonnier- Peter Westbury-Tony Rolt and Tony Marsh, quite an impressive list

[Ray Bell]

An interesting aside...

When the Ferguson arrived in Australia in 1963, there were ten wheels with it. Nine were found to be cracked and were repaired in Brisbane.