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Ferrari resorts to 'pay driver' as reserve for 2015


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#51 CrucialXtreme

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Posted 16 December 2014 - 17:32

They just had one pay driver leave...


Fred brought money. He's good, arguably the best on the grid and certainly one of the best. So where do we draw the line between drivers that bring money from a Mexican billionarie or one that brings money from a Spanish bank?


There is a difference between the two. Most drivers have sponsors, there's nothing new about that.

A pay driver is one who brings lots of money to a team yet has not produced results, not won anything to speak of and who gets their F1 seat based on the money he brings to the team.

Alonso as you mentioned does bring big money with big sponsorship. However he has won multiple WDC's and gets his F1 seat based on merit and his past accomplishments.

I consider Pastor Maldonado to be a pay driver for instance, not Alonso.

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#52 loki

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Posted 16 December 2014 - 18:43

There is a difference between the two. Most drivers have sponsors, there's nothing new about that.

A pay driver is one who brings lots of money to a team yet has not produced results, not won anything to speak of and who gets their F1 seat based on the money he brings to the team.

Alonso as you mentioned does bring big money with big sponsorship. However he has won multiple WDC's and gets his F1 seat based on merit and his past accomplishments.

I consider Pastor Maldonado to be a pay driver for instance, not Alonso.

The kid has two seasons at a team that is lucky to be on the grid in the first place.  Not exactly the opportunity that Alonso has had.  There is no difference between a team sponsor wanting a driver and telling the team they'll pay for it compared to a driver coming with a sponsorship.  If there is an issue with results that's for the team to decide, not some posters on a forum. The Scuderia does not need the money, they could self fund the program if necessary.  They see something in the kid besides the money.



#53 B Squared

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Posted 16 December 2014 - 18:50

It's a "stick and ball" analogy, but a well-known NFL executive has stated that if a team's general manager is listening to the fans about the best way to build or rebuild a team, then they need to leave the team go sit in the stands with the fans.

 

If motor sports caused me as much angst as it seems to touch some here, I'd be giving it up for something I actually enjoy.



#54 kevinracefan

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Posted 16 December 2014 - 18:56

red team just announced their new Mexican sponsors..telmex, telcel and claro..

 

and Mexico is considered an important market to them..



#55 discover23

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Posted 16 December 2014 - 19:04

If Guti is fast, I can possibly see him taking Raikkonnen's seat in 2016, similarly to how Massa took Rubens seat after a spell in Sauber and Ferrari test driver. 



#56 charly0418

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Posted 16 December 2014 - 19:34

If Guti is fast, I can possibly see him taking Raikkonnen's seat in 2016, similarly to how Massa took Rubens seat after a spell in Sauber and Ferrari test driver. 

 

I think his only chance is Haas



#57 discover23

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Posted 16 December 2014 - 19:40

I think his only chance is Haas

yeah, that may work too.



#58 SonJR

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Posted 16 December 2014 - 22:35

Agree with the people saying he's hoping for Haas. And Ferrari gratefully getting some Mexican cash in the year they go back there.

Don't particularly rate GutiƩrrez, but it makes sense to bring someone in with experience in current generation cars and the V6 Ferrari PU, even if GutiƩrrez couldn't bring Sauber forward with development.Plus, it kind of continues the tradition of signing guys like Gene and Burti.



#59 Seanspeed

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Posted 16 December 2014 - 22:45

Ferrari have never prioritized hotshot ability for their test driver roles(that I know of, at least).

It's a "stick and ball" analogy, but a well-known NFL executive has stated that if a team's general manager is listening to the fans about the best way to build or rebuild a team, then they need to leave the team go sit in the stands with the fans.

If motor sports caused me as much angst as it seems to touch some here, I'd be giving it up for something I actually enjoy.

Ha. Great quote.

Edited by Seanspeed, 16 December 2014 - 22:46.


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#60 tmekt

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Posted 16 December 2014 - 22:48

If Guti is fast, I can possibly see him taking Raikkonnen's seat in 2016, similarly to how Massa took Rubens seat after a spell in Sauber and Ferrari test driver.

That's one big if :rotfl:

Edited by tmekt, 16 December 2014 - 22:48.


#61 Spillage

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Posted 17 December 2014 - 00:16

If Guti is fast, I can possibly see him taking Raikkonnen's seat in 2016, similarly to how Massa took Rubens seat after a spell in Sauber and Ferrari test driver. 

I don't expect him to be fast, although he'll make a half-decent reserve driver. Ted Kravitz was saying Sauber had been thoroughly unimpressed with Gutierrez's pace long before they decided to cut ties with him this season.



#62 aramos

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Posted 17 December 2014 - 01:02

If Guti is fast, I can possibly see him taking Raikkonnen's seat in 2016, similarly to how Massa took Rubens seat after a spell in Sauber and Ferrari test driver. 

 

There is no way Ferrari would promote Gutierrez over someone like Hulkenberg. 



#63 discover23

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Posted 17 December 2014 - 01:11

There is no way Ferrari would promote Gutierrez over someone like Hulkenberg.


Hulk is old news.

#64 warp

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Posted 17 December 2014 - 01:18

The only thing missing is Perez now :p

 

He was in the Ferrari Racing Academy (or whatever the name is) but was dumped (or rather, set aside) when he signed for McLaren. He was being considered for the big team but qualified as "not ready yet" or so Ferrari said back in the day... While I would not be precisely surprised to see him in red, I think there are better drivers and Ferrari has the leverage to bring just about any driver they please.

 

Hulk could be one, but so far he has been passed by any major team at every possible chance... so I would not realistically see neither Checo or Hulk in red.

But actually, money not withstanding, Hulk has beaten both Mexicans just to be fair. 

 

BTW... Congrats to Esteban!!! Great news.  :clap:



#65 Disgrace

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Posted 17 December 2014 - 01:20

Ferrari have never prioritized hotshot ability for their test driver roles(that I know of, at least).

 

Or even their race seats. The last inexperienced hot talent they employed is still Alesi back in 1991. Excluding contractually-obliged number two drivers, experience and WDCs trumps all.



#66 AustinF1

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Posted 17 December 2014 - 01:24

Soooo...on the other end, Sauber has lost those sponsors.

 

Not good.



#67 aramos

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Posted 17 December 2014 - 01:25

Hulk is old news.

Gutierrez was never news.



#68 Exb

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Posted 17 December 2014 - 01:38

Soooo...on the other end, Sauber has lost those sponsors.
 
Not good.


I guess Sauber knew that when Gutierrez lost his seat they would lose that sponsorship - don't worry, they have 2 new pay drivers bringing sponsorship in replacement  ;)



#69 warp

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Posted 17 December 2014 - 01:39

Soooo...on the other end, Sauber has lost those sponsors.

 

Not good.

 

Don't they have new pay-drivers? I'm genuinely asking.

 

Probably they did their math and they'll be all right with the new sponsors (if any). I don't think this had happened overnight so Sauber may have taken their precautions. They were struggling already, though.

 

EXB beat me to it.


Edited by warp, 17 December 2014 - 01:39.


#70 AustinF1

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Posted 17 December 2014 - 01:40

Don't they have new pay-drivers? I'm genuinely asking.

 

Probably they did their math and they'll be all right with the new sponsors (if any). I don't think this had happened overnight so Sauber may have taken their precautions. They were struggling already, though.

Yeah, I honestly don't know either. I hope you're right.

I guess Sauber knew that when Gutierrez lost his seat they would lose that sponsorship - don't worry, they have 2 new pay drivers bringing sponsorship in replacement   ;)

 

 

:up:


Edited by AustinF1, 17 December 2014 - 01:45.


#71 Exb

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Posted 17 December 2014 - 01:49

Yeah, I honestly don't know either. I hope you're right.


Nasr has at least Banco do Brasil (and maybe others) and Ericsson is rumoured to have a fair amount of private funding
http://www.sportspro...sauber_for_2015

#72 femi

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Posted 17 December 2014 - 01:49

I was wondering that, too. Even the OP doesn't know, despite the title.
 
I guess he probably brings some Telmex money, but I wouldn't think it would be nearly as much for the test driver role.

Doesn't make sense, why should he pay or be sponsored to be a reserve driver? What would be in it for either of them?

#73 warp

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Posted 17 December 2014 - 01:54

Doesn't make sense, why should he pay or be sponsored to be a reserve driver? What would be in it for either of them?

 

Agreed. Most probably he will not pay for the "seat" but will be paid either a low salary or even paid by Telmex. Most probably his signing was negotiated with the sponsorship deal. "Yeah, I can add a couple millions here and there but I have a nephew that needs a summer job" (figure of speech).



#74 emmanuelrubi

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Posted 17 December 2014 - 02:00

There is no way Ferrari would promote Gutierrez over someone like Hulkenberg. 

 

2013 was a good year but i invite you to join us in 2014 where people know he was a little over the hype in 2013, if the ferrari seat opens there is more chance to see Bottas or Grosjean in there if the big names (Hamilton, Rosberg or Riccardo) are not available, and even if none of them (Bottas, Grosjean, Hamilton Rosberg, Riccardo) are available, what is a big IF probably even Perez now that Telmex sponsors Ferrari would be in Ferrari before Hulkenberg.


Edited by emmanuelrubi, 17 December 2014 - 02:38.


#75 BT44/45

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Posted 17 December 2014 - 17:55

2013 was a good year but i invite you to join us in 2014 where people know he was a little over the hype in 2013, if the ferrari seat opens there is more chance to see Bottas or Grosjean in there if the big names (Hamilton, Rosberg or Riccardo) are not available, and even if none of them (Bottas, Grosjean, Hamilton Rosberg, Riccardo) are available, what is a big IF probably even Perez now that Telmex sponsors Ferrari would be in Ferrari before Hulkenberg.

 

here we go again. :clap:



#76 Seanspeed

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Posted 17 December 2014 - 18:15

Or even their race seats. The last inexperienced hot talent they employed is still Alesi back in 1991. Excluding contractually-obliged number two drivers, experience and WDCs trumps all.

Well, for their race seats, they definitely want hotshot ability. They signed Kimi on when he was considered the 'fastest man in F1' and then signed Alonso when he was considered top of the roost alongside Lewis, who was unavailable. Obviously before that, they nabbed Schumacher when he was considered the best on the grid.

Still don't agree with the whole 'contractual no.2' thing. I think Rubens and Massa were signed *expected* to be 2nd gunners considering they had already hired who they thought were the best in the business and were treated as such when those performance expectations proved entirely accurate, but I doubt there were any contractual obligations in place. And lets not pretend that both Rubens and Massa were not considered very quick drivers at those times. Either way, that whole thing has since passed. When Schumi left and Kimi was brought on expected to be the top gun of the field and the team, and that didn't pan out, they had zero qualms about supporting Massa and even relegating Kimi to a supporting role when Massa had the upperhand.

And then Ferrari's resigning of Kimi, when he was again considered by most to either be a top driver, or at least a *very good* driver, to partner Alonso reinforces the notion that Ferrari do want talented people in *either* seat of theirs. I don't see anything close to that same mentality when they pick their test drivers. In fact, I think these days, Ferrari mostly consider that role for drivers who they don't expect to make it into the race seat. I think the team would rather have any prospective drivers actually racing, as test drivers get so little actual seat time these days.

#77 VolvoT5

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Posted 17 December 2014 - 19:02

If Guti is fast, I can possibly see him taking Raikkonnen's seat in 2016, similarly to how Massa took Rubens seat after a spell in Sauber and Ferrari test driver. 

Taking on a young test/reserve driver does lead to this line of thinking, especially someone like GutiĆ©rrez who has recent racing experience.   Two problems though, 1) Kimi has already hinted at doing another year after 2015 depending on results, 2)  GutiĆ©rrez was barely (if at all) faster than Sutil and most people don't exactly rate Sutil. 

 

I think if Kimi performs well vs Vettel next year then he will do another 1 to 2 years at Ferrari... ironically probably retiring just as Ferrari are starting to return to the very top level in 2017/18.  Ferrari will then move in a 'no 2' to partner Vettel; someone fast but not fast enough to upset Seb. 


Edited by VolvoT5, 17 December 2014 - 19:04.