78 replies to this topic

[kosmos]

 

 

Also in the top 50 drivers of the year:

 

1-Ricciardo
2-Hamilton (7 in 2013)
3-Alonso (4 in 2013)
6-Rosberg (13 in 2013)
10-Bottas (45 in 2013)
15-Button (43 in 2013)
22-Hulk (11 in 2013)
24-Vettel (1 in 2013)
26-Massa
29-Kvyat (18 in 2013)
40-Grosjean (24 in 2013)
42-Magnussen (8 in 2013)
46-Bianchi

Edited by kosmos, 18 December 2014 - 10:13.

[Radion]

Reasonable. 

[Sheepmachine]

Is this in this weeks mag? I haven't got it yet. Come on postman!

[krapmeister]

That's a massive fall from grace for Vettel - from 1 last year to 24th, while his teammate gets the top spot.

Also, yay for Team Australia in positions 16-18 of the all time list

[aramos]

So Daniel Ricciardo moves from not featuring on the list to the number 1 position. I can't imagine that would happen very often.

[TomNokoe]

Forever 2nd

[MissingTheApex]

I don't think Ricciardo has been the best driver this year, he's finished 3rd in the second best car; I don't see why there's this groundswell of support for him.  Don't get me wrong, he's done well, but the best?  Sorry, don't buy it; watching Alonso put that pig of a ferrari in places it had no right to be tells me who I think was the best this year.

[krapmeister]

So Daniel Ricciardo moves from not featuring on the list to the number 1 position. I can't imagine that would happen very often.

Really? You sure he wasn't in the Top 50 list last year?

[Seanspeed]

I suppose that's quite impressive for Lewis to be 2nd considering he wasn't there from 2002-2006.

Or am I missing something?

[Zava]

I suppose that's quite impressive for Lewis to be 2nd considering he wasn't there from 2002-2006.

Or am I missing something?

I think he could be there in 2005 and 2006, dominant F3 championship and a GP2 championship could put him in the top10, but yes, Vettel & Hamilton (and in reverse: Schumacher) had less time to consolidate themselves in this list.

 

edit: just checked, no top10 for Hamilton in these years (11th in 2006, only found the top10 of 2005).

Edited by Zava, 18 December 2014 - 11:08.

[SanDiegoGo]

in what way is this an "ALL-TIME" list? have autosport joined a fanatical religious cult that insists the world began in 2002?

Edited by SanDiegoGo, 18 December 2014 - 12:21.

[Ross Stonefeld]

It's kind of amusing that Button was in there every year, but with only 50 drivers I guess it'd be really hard for him not to make the cut. I'd love to see his 2002 write-up.

Edited by Ross Stonefeld, 18 December 2014 - 12:20.

[ollebompa]

Biased towards F1 drivers IMO. Loeb and Kristensen should be onw and two.
 

[midgrid]

This thread reminded me of the Castrol Driver Rankings that were launched a few years ago.  I looked it up, and the system is still going, albeit without the initial sponsorship.

[Afterburner]

When I saw KR above MS I decided it was time to stop reading.

[aramos]

When I saw KR above MS I decided it was time to stop reading.

That's not how it works. That's just how many times they have featured since 2002 and who had the best rankings.

[discover23]

Surprised to see Autosport finally give Montoya some well deserved recognition.

 

Edit: Why does the title say All-time top 20? is confusing.

Edited by discover23, 18 December 2014 - 15:34.

[SanDiegoGo]

how the hell did hamilton not get the nod in 2007? record nine consecutive podiums, 4 wins, beat his double world champion team mate all in his ROOKIE year. he remains the most successful rookie ever and yet that wasn't enough?

[paultheoctopus44]

Why is Ricciardo placed above Hamilton this year, is it because the Autosport 'experts' do not want to contradict there argument of them saying that Vettel has been the new second coming

Edited by paultheoctopus44, 18 December 2014 - 16:09.

[P123]

how the hell did hamilton not get the nod in 2007? record nine consecutive podiums, 4 wins, beat his double world champion team mate all in his ROOKIE year. he remains the most successful rookie ever and yet that wasn't enough?

 

Not fashionable, plus Kimi had a strong end to the season which was probably fresher in their memories.

[Seanspeed]

how the hell did hamilton not get the nod in 2007? record nine consecutive podiums, 4 wins, beat his double world champion team mate all in his ROOKIE year. he remains the most successful rookie ever and yet that wasn't enough?

I agree there. That remains one of the most impressive seasons by any driver ever, as far as I'm concerned.

[Ross Stonefeld]

You have to view the 2007 season in the context of the 2000s. Not what we know in 2014.

[Seanspeed]

You have to view the 2007 season in the context of the 2000s. Not what we know in 2014.

Funny enough, my opinions about Lewis/Alonso/Kimi/McLaren/Ferrari haven't changed much since then. If anything, recent history has mostly just reinforced my beliefs.

Granted, I was still hesitant about doubting Kimi, but even in 2007, I felt that Kimi wasn't as strong as I thought he would be and that the F2007 was the far better car for the majority of the year.

Edited by Seanspeed, 18 December 2014 - 16:18.

[SanDiegoGo]

it really does seem autosport doesn't know what it's two hands are doing sometimes? their per race rankings out of ten clearly have hamilton scoring the most over the season and yet they abandon that "scientific" measure when it comes to who was the best driver of the year. what exactly is the purpose of their scoring system if they simply ignore it.

[noikeee]

how the hell did hamilton not get the nod in 2007? record nine consecutive podiums, 4 wins, beat his double world champion team mate all in his ROOKIE year. he remains the most successful rookie ever and yet that wasn't enough?

 

It's the whole debate of whether you're rating ability or potential. That was an amazing achievement yes, but he wasn't any better than Alonso that year - they finished tied in points. It indicated he could become an amazing driver in the coming years, though.

 

With the benefit of hindsight, both of what you're saying and Autosport's choice sound wrong. The relative performance of Kimi, Massa, Alonso etc over the coming years makes you think perhaps that Ferrari was a wee bit faster and Kimi shouldn't have been driver of the year then. On the other hand, Hamilton didn't really build on his potential the way we expected. He is one of the very best drivers yes, but he was already at the time as a rookie, so he didn't progress much. If he had, he'd have a reputation of being by far the best one in the paddock yet opinions are divided and many still say Alonso.

 

Maybe the best choice for driver of the year 2007 was Loeb!

 

By the way I'm not a huge fan of Ricciardo's selection this year. I think sometimes Autosport tries to do the opposite of what you'd expect these publications to be (overly conservative), and instead try to go very bold hyping them whenever a new driver starts performing well. I really do like Ricciardo and spotted his talent earlier than many people on this board, but I'd just hold on a little bit yet before declaring him the best driver on earth...

[SanDiegoGo]

hindsight has nothing to do with him being an amazing rookie. that happened. looking back doesn't make it any more or less impressive. that year he was the most impressive driver. they didn't make these results today, this is the ranking from that actual year. they're not looking back saying what they think now.

[Seanspeed]

It's the whole debate of whether you're rating ability or potential. That was an amazing achievement yes, but he wasn't any better than Alonso that year - they finished tied in points. It indicated he could become an amazing driver in the coming years, though.

Points don't tell the whole story. I think Lewis did have the edge, the season seen as a whole.
  

By the way I'm not a huge fan of Ricciardo's selection this year. I think sometimes Autosport tries to do the opposite of what you'd expect these publications to be (overly conservative), and instead try to go very bold hyping them whenever a new driver starts performing well. I really do like Ricciardo and spotted his talent earlier than many people on this board, but I'd just hold on a little bit yet before declaring him the best driver on earth...

Nobody is saying he's the best driver on earth. The season rankings aren't an evolution of the year before, as they continue to change their 'general best' rankings. Its simply a reflection of how they think every driver did that specific season. And I would agree that Ricciardo was the most impressive. I still rate Alonso and Lewis ahead of him overall, as it was just one season, but its not impossible that another good driver actually does impress more than those two in a given year.

Edited by Seanspeed, 18 December 2014 - 16:28.

[as65p]

how the hell did hamilton not get the nod in 2007? record nine consecutive podiums, 4 wins, beat his double world champion team mate all in his ROOKIE year. he remains the most successful rookie ever and yet that wasn't enough?

 

ROOKIE, eh? It's been a while this has been shouted around here.

 

I know it's unpopular, but maybe it was taken into account that he blew it in the last races, however impressive his season up to that point was.

[noikeee]

Points don't tell the whole story. I think Lewis did have the edge, the season seen as a whole.
  
Nobody is saying he's the best driver on earth. The season rankings aren't an evolution of the year before, as they continue to change their 'general best' rankings. Its simply a reflection of how they think every driver did that specific season. And I would agree that Ricciardo was the most impressive. I still rate Alonso and Lewis ahead of him overall, as it was just one season, but its not impossible that another good driver actually does impress more than those two in a given year.

 

Re Lewis/Alonso '07 you might be right as I don't remember every GP weekend, I do recall it was really close though.

 

I understand drivers have fluctuations of form and a good guy might beat the great guys in a good year. It's just that this opens the door to incoherent choices as people will frequently jump into top 10 then disappear from the rankings forever on the basis of a year they shown a hint of potential, where Autosport hypes them beyond belief. Example: the guy in my sig Felix da Costa who I recall they placed 7th or 8th or something like that 2 years ago. That's ahead of right about the entire F1 field bar 3 or 4 drivers. Doesn't that sound slightly misguided now?

 

Remember in motorsport performance is always a bit nebulous and subjective as you only ever get to compare drivers fairly to their team-mates (and even then...). So you can't really completely disconnect your perceptions of each driver, from their history of previous years.

 

And personally I thought Alonso at least still looked quicker/more consistent than Ricciardo over the course of this year.

 

 

hindsight has nothing to do with him being an amazing rookie. that happened. looking back doesn't make it any more or less impressive. that year he was the most impressive driver. they didn't make these results today, this is the ranking from that actual year. they're not looking back saying what they think now.

 

I don't think I explained myself well. Imagine this scenario: take 2 drivers, one guy that's been in F1 for 10 years, and one guy that's just come out of karts, and give them a lap. And the F1 guy does a lap 0.1 seconds quicker than the kid. Who was most impressive? The kid, absolutely, no doubts about it, that's amazing. But who did the better job? The guy that had the quicker laptime.

 

It depends on whether you're ranking who did the better job, or who was most impressive given the circumstances. See my point? 

 

I've no wish to diminish Lewis' amazing achievement of a season in 07. And like I just answered Sean, perhaps he did do slightly better than Alonso, I don't recall the details precisely, just that it was close.

Edited by noikeee, 18 December 2014 - 16:44.

[huisne]

If anyone's interested in the overall Top10 of 2014:

 

1. Ricciardo

2. Hamilton

3. Alonso

4. Wittmann

5. Ogier

6. Rosberg

7. Lotterer

8. Power

9. Buemi

10. Bottas

[Atreiu]

These top lists are a bore and entirely F1 biased.

Nobody anywhere has come close to repeating Loeb's dominance and excellence, yet he is barely mentioned in any list.

 

Alonso topping  popularity lists. Wow, I have never seen that before.

[Ross Stonefeld]

Loeb isn't in WRC this year but he's ranked 3rd all time.

[huisne]

These top lists are a bore and entirely F1 biased.

Nobody anywhere has come close to repeating Loeb's dominance and excellence, yet he is barely mentioned in any list.

 

Alonso topping  popularity lists. Wow, I have never seen that before.

 

Actually, Loeb was the only non-F1 one since 2002 who made the top spot... I agree he should have appeared 1st more than once, but I think he is quite appreciated. 

I'm surprised by the under-representation of WEC drivers. Only one driver from Audi, only one driver from Porsche in the top 50.  Loic Duval not even Top50? Come on.... 

Edited by huisne, 18 December 2014 - 17:23.

[Atreiu]

Loeb isn't in WRC this year but he's ranked 3rd all time.

 

I know.

I still think he's underappreciated.

He only was number one once in the 2002-2014 list.

Edited by Atreiu, 18 December 2014 - 17:25.

[Ross Stonefeld]

It doesn't surprise me. F1 champions always score extra "because it's F1" but frankly WRC just doesn't have the same level of competition.

[as65p]

These top lists are a bore and entirely F1 biased.

Nobody anywhere has come close to repeating Loeb's dominance and excellence, yet he is barely mentioned in any list.

 

Alonso topping  popularity lists. Wow, I have never seen that before.

 

The main purpose of any list is to excite the people who don't agree.

[TomNokoe]

Not fashionable, plus Kimi had a strong end to the season which was probably fresher in their memories.

Lewis Hamilton will never be fashionable

[Fontainebleau]

in what way is this an "ALL-TIME" list? have autosport joined a fanatical religious cult that insists the world began in 2002?

 

 

 

I may be wrong, but I think that 2002 was the year in which Autosport started compiling their top 50 list. That's why the world began then   

[Sheepmachine]

It's kind of amusing that Button was in there every year, but with only 50 drivers I guess it'd be really hard for him not to make the cut. I'd love to see his 2002 write-up.

I have the magazine with the 2002 top 50 drivers in somewhere. I may be able to find out.

[ANF]

Is the OP picture really taken from Autosport?

[SophieB]

Is the OP picture really taken from Autosport?

 

I was slightly wondering that too. It looks like he couldn't be angrier at having this honour forced on him.

 

"Best driver?! You sicken me."

[ANF]

I was slightly wondering that too. It looks like he couldn't be angrier at having this honour forced on him.

 

"Best driver?! You sicken me."

And the design is far from elegant. But I guess that's what Autosport looks like nowadays?

[sennafan24]

Lewis Hamilton will never be fashionable

Sod off. He is almost as cool as me 

 

Anyway, I only follow F1, so I am not qualified to rank drivers from other series. But I would rank Lewis and Alonso 1 and 2 out of the F1 lot. So, AS's points system has rewarded the 2 drivers I rate highest over past 12 years. Not sure where I would place the rest though.

[SophieB]

And the design is far from elegant. But I guess that's what Autosport looks like nowadays?

 

I checked my own copy (which I haven't read yet) and yup, that is how it appears in the mag, contempt-filled photo and all. The design is a bit less jarring in the original context of the rest of the page.

[Atreiu]

The main purpose of any list is to excite the people who don't agree.

 

LOL, good one. Then I must admit it works fine!

Edited by Atreiu, 18 December 2014 - 20:40.

[ANF]

I checked my own copy (which I haven't read yet) and yup, that is how it appears in the mag, contempt-filled photo and all. The design is a bit less jarring in the original context of the rest of the page.

Oh well. Thanks for checking.

[Jimisgod]

JPM is too high for someone who bounced out of F1 and then underachieved at NASCAR.

[Ross Stonefeld]

He'd probably have very high scores from 2002-2004 which would keep his average up, especially when you look at who is behind him.

[DampMongoose]

With the thought of an All-Time list, I was brewing up for saying where is Tony Brooks only to discover it was some sort of All-Time list that began just after I blinked last...

[AustinF1]

Reasonable. 

Yup.