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Sauber C34


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#1 showtime

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Posted 18 December 2014 - 15:49

Good news - The Sauber C34 Chassis passed crash tests today and is FIA homologated. Rear crash test will follow in January, as usual #F1


Edited by showtime, 18 December 2014 - 15:49.


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#2 Collective

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Posted 18 December 2014 - 17:38

Wow? How did they get it to go fast enough to crash?



#3 shonguiz

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Posted 18 December 2014 - 17:41

Maybe because the car is only a discrete evolution of the current one ?



#4 HeadFirst

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Posted 18 December 2014 - 17:42

Wow? How did they get it to go fast enough to crash?

 

No corners.



#5 dweller23

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Posted 19 December 2014 - 17:55

Good news, maybe they will show up on the grid next year after all. It's just shocking how you can go from hero to zero in 2 years time with Lotus and Sauber. Still, I think the choice of Ericsson was a bit poor, given that the money he's bringing will likely not be sufficient to cover the damage he will do to Sauber cars. He's probably the worst F1 driver in the last 20 years.



#6 Disgrace

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Posted 20 December 2014 - 21:07

Posts removed - this thread is for discussion of the car and by extension, the team. There is no sense in delving into the driver discussion when there is nothing to discuss.



#7 SpartanChas

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Posted 21 December 2014 - 10:35

Good news, maybe they will show up on the grid next year after all. It's just shocking how you can go from hero to zero in 2 years time with Lotus and Sauber. Still, I think the choice of Ericsson was a bit poor, given that the money he's bringing will likely not be sufficient to cover the damage he will do to Sauber cars. He's probably the worst F1 driver in the last 20 years.


Worst on the grid next year, probably, but he's quick. Is he worse than Sakon Yamamoto though!?

I hope the Sauber next year is better than 2014s. They again don't have any drivers that will be able to make up for it, like Hülkenberg did.

#8 DutchQuicksilver

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Posted 21 December 2014 - 11:21

With hardly any rule changes I doubt Sauber will move forwards on the grid, there's just no room for much improvements due to the stable rules for 2015. My guess is they will be the slowest team as I expect Lotus to improve a lot now that they have a Mercedes engine.



#9 Fisico54

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Posted 21 December 2014 - 12:16

'Worst driver in the last 20 years' - that is just laughable

- Zsolt Baumgartner, Paul Belmondo, Enrique Bernoldi, Karun Chandhok, Jerome D'Ambrosio, Jean-Denis Deletraz, Pedro Diniz, Patrick Freisacher, Yuji Ide, Taki Inoue, Gaston Mazzacane, Shinji Nakano, Esteban Tuero, Sakon Yamamoto, Alex Yoong. That's just the drivers who I couldn't see any justification for ranking them above Ericsson.

 

'damage' - he may have been outpaced by KK but he isn't a serial crasher.

 

There isn't anybody in F1 in 2014 or signed for 2015 who can't justify there place by their results in F1 or there pedigree in lower formulas.



#10 SpartanChas

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Posted 21 December 2014 - 15:11

'Worst driver in the last 20 years' - that is just laughable

- Zsolt Baumgartner, Paul Belmondo, Enrique Bernoldi, Karun Chandhok, Jerome D'Ambrosio, Jean-Denis Deletraz, Pedro Diniz, Patrick Freisacher, Yuji Ide, Taki Inoue, Gaston Mazzacane, Shinji Nakano, Esteban Tuero, Sakon Yamamoto, Alex Yoong. That's just the drivers who I couldn't see any justification for ranking them above Ericsson.

 

'damage' - he may have been outpaced by KK but he isn't a serial crasher.

 

There isn't anybody in F1 in 2014 or signed for 2015 who can't justify there place by their results in F1 or there pedigree in lower formulas.

 

Nasr and Ericsson are there simply because they bring money. They can't justify their places on results when all the drivers that finished ahead of them in the GP2 championships 2013-2014 aren't in F1. Ericsson is the only driver to be in the DAMS car in the Pirelli era not to win the championship. He's quick on his day but not good enough to be in F1.


Edited by SpartanChas, 21 December 2014 - 15:11.


#11 Myrvold

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Posted 22 December 2014 - 02:23

'Worst driver in the last 20 years' - that is just laughable

- Zsolt Baumgartner, Paul Belmondo, Enrique Bernoldi, Karun Chandhok, Jerome D'Ambrosio, Jean-Denis Deletraz, Pedro Diniz, Patrick Freisacher, Yuji Ide, Taki Inoue, Gaston Mazzacane, Shinji Nakano, Esteban Tuero, Sakon Yamamoto, Alex Yoong. That's just the drivers who I couldn't see any justification for ranking them above Ericsson.

 

'damage' - he may have been outpaced by KK but he isn't a serial crasher.

 

There isn't anybody in F1 in 2014 or signed for 2015 who can't justify there place by their results in F1 or there pedigree in lower formulas.

 

Totally unrelated, but Pedro Diniz did prove himself in the end (or, right before the end) in my opinion. Granted he was never an amazing driver. But as a hefty pay-driver, starting at Forti, then going to Ligier to transfer to Arrows, mainly to pay the salary of Damon Hill, he ended up outscoring Jean Alesi in 1999, granted. Alesi wasn't at his best anymore, but it's not a bad effort for a "major pay driver". I also feel that Esteban Tuero could've been a solid Johnny Herbert - light. But a neck injury and homesickness left us guessing. D'Ambrosio looked better compared to Glock than Ericsson to Kobayashi.
 

But oh there has been a lot of hopeless drivers the last 20 years that makes Ericsson look like gold. Giovanni Lavaggi (Mr. Johnny Carwash), wasn't exactly a star when he made is debut for Pacific, 37 years old. Now, Andrea Montermini wasn't a top driver either, but Lavaggi was often 2-4 seconds behind Montermini on a flying lap.

I wanted to say Oliver Beretta as well, but 6 class wins and 10 class podiums in Le Mans shows talent!
 

I really don't feel that Ericsson is a man who deserves to be in F1 in any other way than to keep a team afloat. But he's certainly not the worst since 94! Actually, just look up the non-classified racers in the 94 season, half of them would be worse than the Swede.


Edited by Myrvold, 22 December 2014 - 02:28.


#12 charly0418

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Posted 22 December 2014 - 03:17

Ferrari engine

 

 

 

enough said



#13 Mohican

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Posted 22 December 2014 - 06:39

This is an incredible discussion. Just what did Ericsson do to you ? Steal your dogs ?
Let's hope that the C34 is a better car than this year's Sauber, and we shall see.

#14 Gilles4Ever

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Posted 04 January 2015 - 15:20

Thanks to the appointment of #Marciello as 3rd driver, #Sauber has secured a discount of about 10 million on the provision of #Ferrari PU

#Nasr and #Ericsson brings about € 40 millions to #Sauber!



#15 shonguiz

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Posted 04 January 2015 - 16:07

40 millions ? Holy moly, how in the hell did he sell himself so well to his sponsors ?

#16 Risil

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Posted 04 January 2015 - 16:19

40 millions ? Holy moly, how in the hell did he sell himself so well to his sponsors ?

 

How in the hell are other drivers selling themselves so badly?



#17 Richard T

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Posted 04 January 2015 - 17:04

How in the hell are other drivers selling themselves so badly?


Especially drivers from >insert random dictatorship or mass oil producing country here<.

#18 emmanuelrubi

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Posted 04 January 2015 - 17:29

The question is, if the car dont improve and performs the same as in 2014 would this two drivers do better than Esteban & Adrian ?

#19 ATM

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Posted 04 January 2015 - 18:48

If the cars don't improve, it's not going to make much difference anyway. With Marussia belly up (and Caterham very nearly so) they'll be rather last...so even if they'll be 30 secs slower on Sunday compared to  Sutil, nobody's going to notice, really. 

 

Of course, it's a good thing they live to fight another day nevertheless. 


Edited by ATM, 04 January 2015 - 18:50.


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#20 midgrid

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Posted 08 January 2015 - 13:38

Interesting concept livery by Patrick Viola:

 

B6wwR94CEAAS5vi.jpg



#21 Collective

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Posted 08 January 2015 - 14:11

The question is, if the car dont improve and performs the same as in 2014 would this two drivers do better than Esteban & Adrian ?

That's simple. Nasr potentially, Ericsson wouldn't.



#22 Mohican

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Posted 08 January 2015 - 14:27

OK, here we go again: did Ericsson steal your dog ? Marry your daughter ? Put out his cigarette on your plate ? Leave a horse's head in your bed ? Just what did he do to merit this kind of venom ?

 

He will like the blue and yellow colours, though. Very considerate of Nasr to bring them in. 



#23 Jimisgod

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Posted 09 January 2015 - 04:22

OK, here we go again: did Ericsson steal your dog ? Marry your daughter ? Put out his cigarette on your plate ? Leave a horse's head in your bed ? Just what did he do to merit this kind of venom ?

He will like the blue and yellow colours, though. Very considerate of Nasr to bring them in.


If this is venom, read the stuff directed at Hulkenberg...

Fact is Ericsson was the slowest of 3 drivers at Caterham last year. Two of them are out of the sport. He is a lesser version of Chilton.

#24 Brother Fox

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Posted 09 January 2015 - 08:11

That concept livery is far too exciting for Sauber. Needs more bland

#25 Mohican

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Posted 09 January 2015 - 12:05

No, Ericsson was the highest scoring Caterham driver last year - as well as the fastest in Singapore/Japan/Russia. Last - not first - impressions are everything; just ask Kevin Magnussen.

 

Anyway, discussng Caterham's performance last year is pointless; who thinks that they ever managed to put two equal cars on the grid ?

 

Let's see how Sauber get on next year before condemning their drivers.



#26 SealTheDiffuser

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Posted 09 January 2015 - 12:33

That concept livery is far too exciting for Sauber. Needs more bland

 

Sauber will never learn.



#27 Collective

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Posted 21 January 2015 - 16:28

As expected NEC flew to Force India (the sponsorship always came from NEC de Mexico).

 

I wonder what sponsors are coming with Nasr and Ericsson. Hopefully it's not just Banco do Brasil.



#28 Nathan

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Posted 21 January 2015 - 18:56

I can't think of a single decal on the '14 Caterham that was there because of Ericsson :confused:



#29 Donkey

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Posted 21 January 2015 - 19:21

Sauber will never learn.

Sauber used to have great liveries when they had Petronas and Red Bull sponsorship, where did it all go wrong? (well BMW and RBR I guess...)



#30 Myrvold

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Posted 21 January 2015 - 22:37

I can't think of a single decal on the '14 Caterham that was there because of Ericsson :confused:

 

Nope, because, for some strange reason, it is sometimes reffered to an "anonymous" backer, who doesn't want his/her name mentioned.



#31 Disgrace

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Posted 21 January 2015 - 22:47

I really worry for Sauber now, given the news that the Swiss National Bank has removed the Franc's peg with the Euro. There were already such concerns prior to the peg's introduction and Sauber/F1 are in much worse states now than in 2011. If Sauber's sponsorship payments are still made in dollars or Euros, their sponsorship income could have just plummeted by a fifth. :(



#32 highdownforce

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Posted 22 January 2015 - 10:53

Sauber uses (new) drivers' money to pay its (old) debts

http://grandepremio....lta-de-material

- All of (or at least great part of) Ericsson's, Nasr's and FIA's payments used for previous debts;

- C34 is severely underdeveloped;

- At some point, the C34 production had to be interrupted due to lack of materials;

- Drivers' money combined: EUR 40 millions;

- FIA prize money: EUR 10 millions;

- Ferrari used Sauber's windtunnel in order to sweet the engine debt. The Italian team keeps supplying PUs despite of their late payments;

- Sauber didn't have money to redevelop front aero in 2014, this being indicated by the technical team as one of the three major problems: Ferrari PU, car overweight and front aero (the nose, to be more specific);

- Inside the team the talking is realistic: C34 will be the worst car of the 2015 season;

- FI in same situation regarding Mercedes PUs.

#33 sopa

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Posted 22 January 2015 - 11:31

The question is, if the car dont improve and performs the same as in 2014 would this two drivers do better than Esteban & Adrian ?

 

I think Ericsson is perhaps about on Gutierrez level. Nasr is perhaps slightly more talented of the two, but not a world-beater. They'll struggle to score points, again. But who knows, every now and then there can be a race, where even an underdog shines - for some reason the car works well in the conditions, and the driver happens to be in great form that day.



#34 shonguiz

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Posted 22 January 2015 - 17:41

Time to replace kaltherborn.

Edited by shonguiz, 22 January 2015 - 17:41.


#35 LORDBYRON

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Posted 22 January 2015 - 18:06

Sauber uses (new) drivers' money to pay its (old) debts

http://grandepremio....lta-de-material

- All of (or at least great part of) Ericsson's, Nasr's and FIA's payments used for previous debts;

- C34 is severely underdeveloped;

- At some point, the C34 production had to be interrupted due to lack of materials;

- Drivers' money combined: EUR 40 millions;

- FIA prize money: EUR 10 millions;

- Ferrari used Sauber's windtunnel in order to sweet the engine debt. The Italian team keeps supplying PUs despite of their late payments;

- Sauber didn't have money to redevelop front aero in 2014, this being indicated by the technical team as one of the three major problems: Ferrari PU, car overweight and front aero (the nose, to be more specific);

- Inside the team the talking is realistic: C34 will be the worst car of the 2015 season;

- FI in same situation regarding Mercedes PUs.

So in other words we have a 2014 car with just legal 2015 wing and or tweaks 

 

Great business plan it is not 

 

Looks like it wont be the only 2014 car back on the grid



#36 Disgrace

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Posted 22 January 2015 - 18:14

Time to replace kaltherborn.

 

And achieve what? Single-handedly change the F1 business model? Swing the global economy in favour of the team? It seems wherever Sauber look for assistance, the world shuts them down. Imagine the state of the team had their Russian sponsorship deals followed through...



#37 shonguiz

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Posted 22 January 2015 - 21:35

And achieve what? Single-handedly change the F1 business model? Swing the global economy in favour of the team? It seems wherever Sauber look for assistance, the world shuts them down. Imagine the state of the team had their Russian sponsorship deals followed through...

Peter Sauber also got to manage a team with very low budget and non stopping financial diffculties, he still managed to keep the team in a respectable state. Hell he even managed to do better than when BMW left. Since Kaltherborn took the reigns, the team is in deep down spiral. Revenus, drivers and image went downhill. I am not asking Kaltherborn to put Sauber in a champioship contender place, just to stop the downhill spiral and she didn't manage that.


Edited by shonguiz, 22 January 2015 - 21:36.


#38 oetzi

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Posted 22 January 2015 - 22:53

Sauber was one of the few trustable people in F1. You're right - it's because he's gone they've hit the ****.



#39 Francesc

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Posted 23 January 2015 - 08:33

It's since Monisha took over that the team has started to fall. It's her fault for not raising a good budget. In 2013 she had the option to have two pay drivers driving the cars. Instead of that she preferred to take Hulkenberg who doesn't bring any money. Then in 2014 the same with Sutil. Now in 2015 she has finally understood it, but it's already too late. :down:



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#40 Jovanotti

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Posted 23 January 2015 - 09:59

Just blaming Kaltenborn is way too easy. Peter Sauber is still there in the background and would have given his advice if he'd thought she was doing so badly. The question is whether there's a place for a team like Sauber on the grid today.

(And of course they could do with a bit more exciting image and appearance).

Edited by Jovanotti, 23 January 2015 - 10:01.


#41 rjsports

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Posted 23 January 2015 - 10:00

It's not just her call. She's team manager that doesn't mean she makes all the shots, wouldn't be surprised if it would be Peter who wanted Hülkenberg and Sutil. Sauber have just slipped with all the technical people going away and a shitty car in 2014 with an Ferrari engine that didn't work either. Now they have a inexperienced driver line-up and an even smaller budget for 2015. It's sad but I think Sauber might be the next team to go.



#42 midgrid

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Posted 23 January 2015 - 10:03

To be honest, it's hard to imagine how anyone else could have done a better job when BMW's surprise withdrawal from the sport left the team entirely without sponsors in the middle of a global economic depression.  Hiring Kobayashi and Hülkenberg, with minimal or no backing, produced some excellent on-track results, and I'm surprised that it didn't result in more deals, even allowing for the economic situation.  And can you imagine the negative fan reaction if Sauber had hired pay drivers every season?



#43 SenorSjon

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Posted 23 January 2015 - 10:14

They could have used talents like Frijns to barter for a contract buyout from a bigger team (like the Kimi way). Instead they went for the money supply from pay drivers (more secure, but less results).



#44 RedRabbit

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Posted 23 January 2015 - 10:25

So in other words we have a 2014 car with just legal 2015 wing and or tweaks 

 

Great business plan it is not 

 

Looks like it wont be the only 2014 car back on the grid

 

It worked quite well for Ferrari to run an old car with tweaks for the fly away races in the early 2000's, even up to 2005. Somewhere along the way, the FIA have fudged things up so badly with technical regulations, this no longer seems a real possibility for teams. I'm all for improved safety and all that, but with teams needing to crash test and homologate a new chassis each year according to altering rules, it's killing the sport.

 

Any team should be able to run a chassis for at least 2 or even 3 seasons with developments or slight alterations to aero to conform to the latest ridiculous whim of the FIA. In fact, with safety of these cars so impressive nowdays, it should possible for a team to homologate a chassis at the start of a set of aero rules and use that chassis unmodified until the next big change takes place. Take, for example, the noses. Latest images show that we're in for another season of stupid looking front ends, thanks to a sticking plaster solution to a hyperthetical safety problem. When the lower noses were mandated in the first place, the regulations should have been written in such a way that a nose similar to pre-2009 would be the natural solution that the designers would arrive at, as it was then.



#45 sopa

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Posted 23 January 2015 - 11:26

It's since Monisha took over that the team has started to fall. It's her fault for not raising a good budget. In 2013 she had the option to have two pay drivers driving the cars. Instead of that she preferred to take Hulkenberg who doesn't bring any money. Then in 2014 the same with Sutil. Now in 2015 she has finally understood it, but it's already too late. :down:

 

Well, in 2010 Peter Sauber hired Kobayashi also without budget IIRC. And Sauber lacked money already back then. The thing is, despite BMW withdrawal, Sauber was still performing well during the 2009-2013 regulation phase. This despite budget problems. They had good foundations from the past and could keep performing fine.

 

But Sauber's fate is a bit similar to Lotus. Both punched above their weight in the previos regs era. But lack of financial might has seen them drop well down in the new regs era. They haven't had the depth in the team to adapt well to changes.



#46 oetzi

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Posted 23 January 2015 - 12:07

So in other words we have a 2014 car with just legal 2015 wing and or tweaks 

 

Great business plan it is not 

 

If there are only 9 (or maybe 10 at a stretch) teams on the grid, there's no prize money to race for. If there are 11 next year there will be. In which case, why spend your money this year when you need it more next year? That's before you even start to factor in the suggested rule changes that would significantly reduce the future value of any development done this year.

 

A great sporting plan it may not be, but from a business point of view it kind of makes sense.



#47 dau

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Posted 23 January 2015 - 14:52

It's since Monisha took over that the team has started to fall. It's her fault for not raising a good budget. In 2013 she had the option to have two pay drivers driving the cars. Instead of that she preferred to take Hulkenberg who doesn't bring any money. Then in 2014 the same with Sutil. Now in 2015 she has finally understood it, but it's already too late. :down:

Cool, that may be the first time i see someone being criticised for not running two paydrivers.



#48 MikeV1987

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Posted 23 January 2015 - 14:58

The team was on the downfall way before Monisha came a long, I wouldn't put the blame on her. Not only that, she is not the only one pulling the strings at Sauber either.


Edited by MikeV1987, 23 January 2015 - 15:01.


#49 shonguiz

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Posted 23 January 2015 - 22:09

The team was on the downfall way before Monisha came a long, I wouldn't put the blame on her. Not only that, she is not the only one pulling the strings at Sauber either.

That's simply false.

2010 : 8th

2011: 7th

2012: 6th (Monisha took over halfway this season)

2013: 7th (real first Monisha season)

2014:10th



#50 LORDBYRON

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Posted 23 January 2015 - 22:34

That's simply false.

2010 : 8th

2011: 7th

2012: 6th (Monisha took over halfway this season)

2013: 7th (real first Monisha season)

2014:10th

Exactly since 2005 they have bounced about 5th to 8th place just this year they had a bad one