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FIA Trying to get former FIA Doc Fired?


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#1 SanDiegoGo

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Posted 19 December 2014 - 10:50

https://formerf1doc....-jean-todt-too/

 

If the FIA showed as much enthusiasm for enforcing the rules of F1 as it did for silencing its critics maybe we'd have a healthier sport.


Edited by SanDiegoGo, 19 December 2014 - 10:54.


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#2 Shambolic

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Posted 19 December 2014 - 11:27

Perhaps if he'd fed his own publicity hunger with a little less scaremongering red top negativity, he'd not have attracted this sort of attention.



#3 Clatter

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Posted 19 December 2014 - 11:29

Wow, that's pretty low if true.



#4 pinkypants

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Posted 19 December 2014 - 11:41

:(

 

That's bad.



#5 Buccaneer

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Posted 19 December 2014 - 11:43

Thats nasty.

Anyone have any ideas why the FIA is out to get him?



#6 goingthedistance

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Posted 19 December 2014 - 11:43

I've been skeptical of some of Hartstein's ranting in the past, but I have to say that is seriously low from Jean Todt. Sounds like the old Ferrari gang have a vendetta against him because he dared to comment on Schumacher's condition. I hope Hartstein takes them to court for interfering in his employment. 

 

I have to say that I think the way some of the Schumacher news was handled by the family (i.e. radio silence, perhaps to protect certain sponsorship deals) was not the best and a stark contrast to the way the Bianchi family handled things. I appreciate that as a fan of a driver we have no right to information, but all Hartstein did was fill the gap with his medical knowledge of similar cases. 


Edited by goingthedistance, 19 December 2014 - 11:44.


#7 Kimble

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Posted 19 December 2014 - 11:49

 but all Hartstein did was fill the gap with his medical knowledge of similar cases. 

 

and I think there lies the problem.  He shouldn't have filled that gap and used it to increase his profile.



#8 ExFlagMan

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Posted 19 December 2014 - 11:53

Much rather someone with knowledge filling the gap that the sort of wild guesses prevalent on some parts of the net.

#9 Clatter

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Posted 19 December 2014 - 11:54

I don't see why it was a problem. It didn't affect MS's treatment in anyway and I doubt he said anything that had not already been said to the family. If it was so wrong then legal action could have been taken to silence him rather than this pathetic attempt.



#10 pinkypants

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Posted 19 December 2014 - 11:54

He already had a high profile before the Schumacher accident - I don't think he tried to use the situation to his gain. 



#11 Disgrace

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Posted 19 December 2014 - 11:57

and I think there lies the problem.  He shouldn't have filled that gap and used it to increase his profile.

 

Surely an informed voice is worth listening to, in which case it's worth broadcasting. The "gap" would have been filled regardless, this is the internet after all.



#12 KirilVarbanov

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Posted 19 December 2014 - 12:07

Disgusting situation - arguing over Internet. Call each other and talk in private. We heard one side - the sharp-edged doctor. It would be fair to hear the other party, if he has the balls to speak. 



#13 Ellios

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Posted 19 December 2014 - 12:08

The first rule of fight club...



#14 RedBaron

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Posted 19 December 2014 - 12:11

That Doc has no class anyway. He jumps on the bandwagon of severely injured famous people to raise his own profile, you're not getting your own TV show any time soon mate. 



#15 Buccaneer

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Posted 19 December 2014 - 12:13

I can't believe this is all over some comments he made over the MS accident.  At the time of the accident the press were dusting off loads of doctors to get their opinion and the possible outcome to MS recovery.

I wonder if Todt is going to try and get them all fired aswell.

 

Just wanted to add that the amount of effort of making a dossier and what appears to be a less than authentic email from the MS family to try and prove the doctors guilt.  I would of presumed the vendetta against him was for something serious like getting caught giving Todt's wife a personal health check and not just giving his opinion on the condition of MS.


Edited by Buccaneer, 19 December 2014 - 12:27.


#16 Ferrari_F1_fan_2001

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Posted 19 December 2014 - 12:20

Going after Harstein for his EXPERT medical opinion rather than all the gutter newspaper media outlets who baited the family for months into giving up information?

 

Wow, how dumb can you get,

 

Besides, it has been SIX months since Harstein has commented about Schumacher in his blog. Todt is acting like the mafia if this is true.



#17 Bloggsworth

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Posted 19 December 2014 - 12:36

and I think there lies the problem.  He shouldn't have filled that gap and used it to increase his profile.

 

As a tactic for increasing his profile, it was an epic fail - Until I read this thread, I'd never heard of him; and by the way, he is at liberty to comment on whatever he wants.



#18 ANF

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Posted 19 December 2014 - 12:49

Going after Harstein for his EXPERT medical opinion rather than all the gutter newspaper media outlets who baited the family for months into giving up information?

 

Wow, how dumb can you get,

 

Besides, it has been SIX months since Harstein has commented about Schumacher in his blog. Todt is acting like the mafia if this is true.

I wouldn't know what this is all about, but it's only been a week since he was on a Judge13 podcast talking about the Bianchi crash report summary.



#19 Sash1

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Posted 19 December 2014 - 12:50

Just ignore whatever he wrote. Is it OK that an international prestigous organisation comes to your boss to try to get you fired from your job, because of what you for example wrote on this forum, your private opinion, written in your private time? Because that would be basically the same. Imagine Christian Horner, Lewis Hamliton, Fernando having a nice discussion with your boss, without your knowledge because you wrote that they are eggheads or whatever. Or Norbert Haug doing the same because you were critical about the Mercedes engine, the brand and called Norbert a fat Zjerman.

 

It is completely insane.



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#20 SanDiegoGo

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Posted 19 December 2014 - 12:52

That Doc has no class anyway. He jumps on the bandwagon of severely injured famous people to raise his own profile, you're not getting your own TV show any time soon mate. 

 

 

now red baron what possible reason could you have for doubting his word? :rolleyes:



#21 Risil

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Posted 19 December 2014 - 12:52

Perhaps Todt can pull a Nixon and blame it all on Cuban dissidents.



#22 03011969

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Posted 19 December 2014 - 12:55

Barbara Streisand springs to mind.



#23 P123

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Posted 19 December 2014 - 12:59

Pretty sad that the FIA thinks something like this is a priority.  Perhaps Todt's close relationship to the Schumacher family somewhat clouded the judgement of those who thought this was a sensible way to behave.



#24 Fastcake

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Posted 19 December 2014 - 13:01

I believe every word he says. Todt has used his office solely to benefit himself and his mates, while removing those who dare to question him. Just look at the way he never speaks to the media, and communicates solely through the FIA's press officers or a sycophantic French journalist. Or how he's only increased the dependency of FIA members on the President, ensuring that everyone has to stand behind him or lose their office and privileges.

Gary Hartstein is not the first (or second, or third...) to talk about this sort of behaviour from Jean Todt.

#25 wrighty

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Posted 19 December 2014 - 13:06

That Doc has no class anyway. He jumps on the bandwagon of severely injured famous people to raise his own profile, you're not getting your own TV show any time soon mate. 

 

physician, heal thyself.



#26 RedBaron

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Posted 19 December 2014 - 13:06

now red baron what possible reason could you have for doubting his word? :rolleyes:

 

Are you suggesting I'm anything but 100% impartial? Where do you work, I'm going to have a word with your superiors.



#27 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 19 December 2014 - 13:39

Looking forward to the Todt denials. I'm sure he's so HURT by these allegations, and that ANYONE could use the plight of POOR Jules/Michael to say such HORRIBLE things. He'll probably have to stop mid-trip to personally clear the air with his chosen media outlet.



#28 Brackets

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Posted 19 December 2014 - 13:43

Wow. Just wow.

If any of this is true, it ~surely~ is the end of Todt in any sort of responsible position, right? Right?


(Of course not)

#29 GhostR

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Posted 19 December 2014 - 14:13

Two things come to mind when I read that blog.

 

1) If the way that blog is written is a window into the personality of Hartstein, then I think I can guess at why he got fired from the F1 job.

 

2) If there's truth in what's written in that blog, then anyone on the FIA side involved with what's happened should be fired.



#30 peroa

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Posted 19 December 2014 - 14:15

Why are people so surprised? 



#31 santori

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Posted 19 December 2014 - 14:58

I've disagreed with a lot of what Gary Hartstein has written (not his medical conclusions, which I have no way of judging) but this is pretty troubling on the part of the FIA, if it's true.

 

And if it's true it gives fresh reason to doubt the Bianchi report.



#32 Dolph

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Posted 19 December 2014 - 15:04

Well, if Gary Hartstein is allowed to express his opinion as a private person then who's to say that people who are friends of Michael Schumacher can not act as private people and protect Michael's interests!? Has anyone actually claimed they were there on official FIA business?

 

Corinna not getting the e-mail address right is a fail, but a very human error that anyone can make. Certainly in distress. Now that Gary Hartstein is familiar with Michael's wife's wishes - does he respect them or he doesn't care. I think he conveniently forgot to mention that on only decided to focus on that one error. Very convenient and self centered.

 

I don't think Gary deserves to be fired at all and has every right to free speech, but there is no way he didn't realize that Schumacher's family and friends did not wish the matters to be discussed publicly. Their reaction to try muzzle Hartstein is a very human one and cannot be condemned.



#33 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 19 December 2014 - 15:14

Sure it can. For a start it's ridiculous. If they can get Gary to be quiet, what, the Schumacher stories disappear? Hartstein, for all his faults, was the only one running anything even remotely informative.



#34 ensign14

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Posted 19 December 2014 - 15:48

What has Schumacher's condition got to do with the FIA anyway?  Someone who had retired from motor sport injured in a ski-ing accident.  Did the FIA turn up to de Cesaris' post mortem?



#35 Sash1

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Posted 19 December 2014 - 15:48

The difference is that Hartstein did not go into the hospital where Schumacher was to have a discussion with the doctor there or his boss to get him fired.



#36 Imateria

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Posted 19 December 2014 - 15:50

Well, if Gary Hartstein is allowed to express his opinion as a private person then who's to say that people who are friends of Michael Schumacher can not act as private people and protect Michael's interests!? Has anyone actually claimed they were there on official FIA business?

 

Corinna not getting the e-mail address right is a fail, but a very human error that anyone can make. Certainly in distress. Now that Gary Hartstein is familiar with Michael's wife's wishes - does he respect them or he doesn't care. I think he conveniently forgot to mention that on only decided to focus on that one error. Very convenient and self centered.

 

I don't think Gary deserves to be fired at all and has every right to free speech, but there is no way he didn't realize that Schumacher's family and friends did not wish the matters to be discussed publicly. Their reaction to try muzzle Hartstein is a very human one and cannot be condemned.

You are of course assuming that the email was legit in the first place and that Gary has any idea of the specifics it contains. Maybe it is and maybe he does, but how do you know that? Are you not just jumping to conclusions yourself here?

 

And does it matter whether Saillant was on official business or not, as the Director of the FIA Institute he's in a very public and important position and to be seen trying to get another well respected doctor fired for reasons wholly outside the medical profession is serious misconduct, if he or the Schumacher family really had a problem with Hartstein's blog then maybe they should have talked to him first.

 

And as for your last point, maybe the Schumacher family don't want Michael's condition to be openly discussed in public, but to try and silence the one person offering informed medical opinion on the information being relayed to the public by the doctors and Schumacher spokes woman whilst the tabloids rely on that well known neurosurgeon Phillip Streiff because they don't want people talking about it shows a massive level of ignorance from a family that has spent over 20 years living in the public eye. Obviously the main conjecture here is that Corinne is the instigator in the first place, and not Jean Todt or whoever. 



#37 Imateria

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Posted 19 December 2014 - 15:57

it's very funny to see, how he reacts when the "shoe is on the other foot"

he feels the need to stress "PRIVACY" (right of), but doens't seem to think the courtesty should be extented to other's, like the family and friends of Schumacher and Bianchi, who would have the same rights - no?

he stresses the right of expressing a opinion (free expression), but condems it, when others (GĂ©rard Saillant) chose to express their opinon (perhaps their private opinion) in the form of a dossir, so how does this add together?

 

If there is/was nothing wrong with what he did, then why make such a big song and dance about it?

Someone chose to express his opinion in form of a dossier, and according to his own words & standards it's his good (at least legal if not moral) right to do so, so what's all the fuzz about.

The dean of his faculty, will read it, listen to it, and then come to his own conclussion, I'm sure that he will get the opportunity to tell his side of the story as well.

As a side note, one "right" doesn't render other "right's" obsolete, and in many countries (even so called free and democratic ones) you can/will face prosecution for just "expressing a opinion". - if this opinion is considered in violation to other rules/laws.

 

Also funny to note his "you come to MY HOSPITAL" claim, I don't think he owns it, it's not a private hospital after all.

Er no. Saillant expressing an opinion would be an open, or private, letter to Hartstein or a press release. Going behind someones back to their work place to get them fired isn't "expressing an opinion", it's vindictive action.

 

I also fail to see how commenting from a position of authority on the matter of publicly supplied information (from what I've seen at least, I don't follow his blog that much) is a breach of privacy, the information is out there to begin with and supplied by the doctors and Schumacher family.



#38 F1matt

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Posted 19 December 2014 - 15:57

It looks like the FIA is returning to the dark days like it had when Balestre was in charge.



#39 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 19 December 2014 - 16:00


Also funny to note his "you come to MY HOSPITAL" claim, I don't think he owns it, it's not a private hospital after all.

 

Seriously?



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#40 David Lightman

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Posted 19 December 2014 - 16:02

I've no problem with him or his blog, but I'm surprised he's got involved with that judge13 site though.



#41 ardbeg

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Posted 19 December 2014 - 16:17

None of us knows anything beyond the dust on the surface. That does not seem to prevent anyone from deciding who is wrong and who is right, who is the villain and who is the victim. Sad.



#42 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 19 December 2014 - 16:34

I think you're intentionally misreading what he's saying there. Surely if he's so out of line there's enough to nail him on without having to use what would be childish levels of pedantry.



#43 CHIUNDA

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Posted 19 December 2014 - 16:44

This is what I would call the FIA stepping over the line.

MS and his family have benefited in the past from unsolicited positive opinions from private individuals on forums, blogs etc. If they didn't try to get any of those positive opinion holders (and makers) fired then they should apply the same approach in this case.

Besides, why does a private opinion on a non FIA event attract a justification to approach somebody's employer to get them fired. I smell a personal vendetta by somebody who wants personal scores settled.

Wasn't firing the guy from FIA enough? Surely this does more damage to the FIA than if they had left Gary alone with his rumblings.

Besides FIA have a website and press office that they could have used to rebut his opinions. And their opinion via this media would surely have more legitimacy?

Edited by CHIUNDA, 19 December 2014 - 16:48.


#44 ExFlagMan

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Posted 19 December 2014 - 16:47

Yes seriously - the guy seems to be pretty full of himself - which is his good right I may add.

Seems to be a mandatory requirement for most of the 'bloggesphere'

#45 NoSanityClause

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Posted 19 December 2014 - 16:48

This is why I love FIA so much. Make me feel a lot better about myself.



#46 ATM

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Posted 19 December 2014 - 16:53

Honestly, I never heard of the guy before this thread, so I'll just throw in my two cents carefully. Even if he was maybe out of line on Schumacher accident notes, there's always the perfectly legal procedure of sueing him. Now, on the other hand, trying to fire him through "unofficial" channels...wtf???

 

Strange times we live in. 



#47 CHIUNDA

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Posted 19 December 2014 - 16:53

If this is an insight into how the FIA works then some of the many circumstancially evidenced conspiracy theories in the past should be given a little more weight.

#48 Nonesuch

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Posted 19 December 2014 - 17:07

If it is true what Hartstein asserts - and I've seen plenty of people rant in similar fashion about their former place of work and about the way in which they were fired to suspect we're at least getting a very one-sided view of events - then it is obviously not the most classy way for the FIA to behave.

 

However, it's also not surprising that the FIA is not pleased about one of its former employees (an association which he cites repeatedly on his blog) speculating about the condition of Michael Schumacher and Jules Bianchi, or - and perhaps more importantly - about his assertions concerning the FIA's investigation panel, about which he said: "fully HALF the members have a clear and unambiguous conflict of interest in any investigation. The current positions, and indeed future careers in motorsport, of those panel members who are not dear personal friends of the FIA president depend intimately on remaining in his good graces."

 

If all else fails, I'm sure the friendly folks here at the Atlas/Autosport forum would welcome new user ExF1Doc (who is definitely not Gary Hartstein) to the discussions. :up:


Edited by Nonesuch, 19 December 2014 - 17:09.


#49 jcbc3

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Posted 19 December 2014 - 17:18

...Go and stand on a street corner, and shout your opinion to anyone who passes by - it's your good right, but you may get punched in the face by someone, who will take offence.
If you can't take this reaction, don't do it. ...


Well, I very much disagree with that.

#50 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 19 December 2014 - 17:22

Especially since he's not doing that. He's staying very much within his field of expertise(medical) and on-topic to his experience(motorsports). I find his style grating, but I don't think he's out of line.

 

If was drawing too much attention to the hospital(reporters camped out in front of his work wanting to get quotes and stuff) I can see how that might be problematic. But the guy going to his boss just smells funny.