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Lewis Hamilton vs. Nico Rosberg 2014 – The Seasons Review [merged]


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#1 OO7

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Posted 24 November 2014 - 05:02

This is a chance to discuss and review the tense battle between the two Mercedes drivers that began in Melbourne Australia on 16th March and spanned 19 races that ended with the controversial (due to double points) season finale in Abu Dhabi on 23rd November 2014. 


Edited by OO7, 25 November 2014 - 12:07.


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#2 GoldenColt

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Posted 24 November 2014 - 05:22

Their duel in a nutshell

 

FXakq2Q.gif

 

At first Rosberg tried to be nice

- Lewis taps him on the head

Then Rosberg tried to be rough

- Lewis has none of it, walks away from Nico's tactics and wins 6 of the 7 remaining races


Edited by GoldenColt, 24 November 2014 - 17:58.


#3 teejay

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Posted 24 November 2014 - 05:26

3 DNF's a piece (lets call last night a DNF)

 

1 each before the race started fundamentally (Aus, Sing)

1 whilst leading (Can, Silverstone)

1 resulting in a wounded slow car (Spa, Abu)

 

11 wins to 5

 

One driver did not successfully complete an overtake on the other all season

 

One driver had to start at the back twice

 

One driver qualified very well, one raced very well

 

One deserved it.



#4 Arion

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Posted 24 November 2014 - 05:48

Rosberg is only better in one department, qualifying. It's an important edge, but he often failed to capitalise on it cos his defense, starts are average. And he's not more cerebral or cool headed under pressure either. But still a top driver in pure speed though. Merc has a great line up.



#5 payinkind

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Posted 24 November 2014 - 06:00

I think Lewis's biggest problem this season is braking. Even in races, you could feel like in brake-heavy situations (except Monza for some reasons), Rosberg always seemed to have the upper hand. For instance, in S2 of Abu Dhabi, during the race, Rosberg had generally 1-2 tenth on Lewis (which Lewis clawed back usually in S3). 

 

Has Lewis gone back to Brembos?

 

Because I feel like the fact that he doesn't appear to be totally comfortable under braking obviously affects his ultimate pace in qualifying.



#6 OO7

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Posted 24 November 2014 - 06:06

I think Lewis's biggest problem this season is braking. Even in races, you could feel like in brake-heavy situations (except Monza for some reasons), Rosberg always seemed to have the upper hand. For instance, in S2 of Abu Dhabi, during the race, Rosberg had generally 1-2 tenth on Lewis (which Lewis clawed back usually in S3). 

 

Has Lewis gone back to Brembos?

 

Because I feel like the fact that he doesn't appear to be totally comfortable under braking obviously affects his ultimate pace in qualifying.

This was talked about either during the build-up by the Sky crew or earlier in the week by Peter Windsor, I don't recall.  |From what was said I don't think Lewis has gone back to his preferred brake set up.  What ever the issue may be, I hope it is sorted for 2015.  The brake failure during the qualification for the German GP was a brake mount problem, something about the interaction between the hub and brake disc I think.  Not an insurmountable.



#7 Will

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Posted 24 November 2014 - 06:52

Should be ok to correct, I think that's why Lewis seemed quite confident he could address qualifying speed over the break.

#8 hollowstar

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Posted 24 November 2014 - 06:54

Should be ok to correct, I think that's why Lewis seemed quite confident he could address qualifying speed over the break.

 

Did he say as much?



#9 OO7

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Posted 24 November 2014 - 06:58

Interesting stat:  2014 is the first time since 1988 that only 3 drivers from two teams have won a race.



#10 Ev0d3vil

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Posted 24 November 2014 - 07:10

Adelaide?? Or Melbourne?; P

#11 Will

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Posted 24 November 2014 - 07:24

Did he say as much?


He didn't mention the brakes by name but did sound confident about addressing the qualifying deficit, implying that the brakes may be a reasonable explanation

#12 tifosiMac

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Posted 24 November 2014 - 08:31

As a Hamilton fan I think it is easy to get lost in the celebration of Lewis winning the championship, but I think Rosberg needs a great deal of credit for this year. There have been a couple of controversies but that is to be expected in a title fight. Fans will never understand the pressure and emotions these guys go through in the quest to find that edge over their closest title rival and I think ultimately both drivers have handled themselves very well.

 

I was mighty impressed with Nico's feedback during the race yesterday, constantly asking what he had to do in case Lewis hit a problem, fighting all the way to the end in a limping car. It was an end I didn't want to see for him and think he deserved a reliable car in the final round as I feel we were robbed a little of a climatic end. When Nico approached Lewis in the pre podium room after the race I thought it showed courage and a fine example of being magnanimous in defeat after the most intense year in their careers. Any grudges Hamilton fans have for Nico should be forgotten IMO because I think these guys have the utmost respect for each other and the past should not be carried into next year.

 

Its been an exciting year at times and I do feel the better driver won, but Nico has shown he is very capable of winning a championship. If Mercedes improve and bring another decent car in 2015, I hope the title fight is as close again and no driver is favoured. Well done guys, it was a pleasure to watch. :)  :up:



#13 ayanate

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Posted 24 November 2014 - 12:19

Even though Lewis deservedly won the championship and congratulations to him for the skill that he demonstrated under immense pressure, however I cannot help but feel that his net stock this year is very slightly down. The qualy advantage that Nico enjoyed in the last three races was rather uncomfortable if you are a Lewis fan who has been convinced for quite a few years now that Lewis is the ultimate one lap specialist. I don't mean that he cannot be beaten over a season but more the manner of the beating that he received this year which concerns me. Lewis seemed to lose his cool almost everytime Nico puts in a very quick lap in Q2 or Q3 and at that point you almost knew Lewis would struggle to rise to the challenge; and far more times than not, that was the case.

 

I cannot wait for 2015, can Lewis turn the qualifying deficit around?

 

You can only expect that in similar machinery, it would be a lot harder, if not nigh impossible next year for Lewis to pass Nico on most tracks. So he needs to win the qualy battles without question if he wants to retain his WDC. 

 

Nico's biggest disadvantage this season during the races was that he is not as seasoned a competitor at the sharp end of the grid like Lewis is in F1. I can only think with this experience under his belt, he will be a tougher nut to crack in 2015. I remember the 2013 season qualies and Nico was always the first to falter when it mattered, it is fair to say that he definitely fixed that problem in 2014. So it is fair to assume with driver progression that he will be stronger in races next year. Hamilton, sort out qualifying, this is a must or you will be dominated!



#14 OO7

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Posted 24 November 2014 - 13:28

Lewis' stock has definitely not dropped, I'd say it has increased as has Nico's.  The pace that Lewis has demonstrated on Sunday's, including the ability to race with and overtake his team mate (who is no slouch) on a number of occasions, coupled with his ability to manage tyres and fuel has been sensational.



#15 amppatel

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Posted 24 November 2014 - 13:35

Anyone who says Rosberg is the better qualifier without any qualification is wrong.

 

Rosberg was the better qualifier this season - but Hamilton is still the better qualifier - I think Hamilton was setting the car up for the race (surely that's the only possible reason for the massive difference in race pace between the two) or Hamilton was having problems with the brakes.


Edited by amppatel, 24 November 2014 - 13:36.


#16 Arion

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Posted 24 November 2014 - 13:36

Nico always has a slight edge over Lewis in qualifying since they were boys, why're people acting like it's a big deal? Heikie used to out qualify Lewis too.



#17 amppatel

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Posted 24 November 2014 - 13:37

Nico always has a slight edge over Lewis in qualifying since they were boys, why're people acting like it's a big deal? Heikie used to out qualify Lewis too.

 

Don't lie to me



#18 Fonzey

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Posted 24 November 2014 - 13:39

I agree Lewis needs to improve on Q3, but his shortcomings have been overdriving rather than a raw lack of pace. So many times we've seen him up after 2 sectors, then blow sector 3.

 

In other team partnerships, often you'll see both drivers do a clean lap - but one will always seem to have a 2-3 tenths advantage. Lewis and Jenson for example, Jenson rarely made errors as such - he was just a smidge slower.

 

I think Lewis has been playing catch-up all year, so perhaps has pushed him into over-driving. I suspect winning the WDC will unleash him a little bit next year and perhaps he'll chill out a bit more in Q3, particularly if he retains his ability to pass Rosberg on track.



#19 DinosaursRoarForHugs

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Posted 24 November 2014 - 14:09

I enjoyed this season, I enjoyed this battle. I'd begun to forget what a proper team-mate battle for the title felt like.

 

I wanted write a long and meandering post about this season, but in truth it's all boiled down to one thing: Hamilton's race pace

 

Those two races in Bahrain and Spain where Hamilton held a faster Rosberg at bay seem a distant memory. The second half of this year, Hamilton has been in a different league in the races. That's why he's champion



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#20 Arion

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Posted 24 November 2014 - 14:24

Don't lie to me

 

Hamilton said it himself several times, Nico was the stronger qualifier when they raced together in karting..and he's stronger in the race. Hamilton's quick over one lap, but it's not his greatest strengths, he's stronger in race pace, overtaking, wet race etc.



#21 ayanate

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Posted 24 November 2014 - 14:57

Fuel corrected yes, Heikki seemed to be quicker at some tracks which meant the real head-to-head could have been in his favour but that was theoretical, never proven like in the era we are in.

 

I expect Lewis will bounce back in qualy trim against Nico next year. When they both extract the maximum from the car, it should be hundreths or thousandths of a second between them at most tracks, they are that close in abilities.



#22 DaddyCool

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Posted 24 November 2014 - 15:06

I just want to add that those who thought this year will be a walk in the park for Lewis haven't payed close attention to Rosberg's career. He wasn't going to be Barrichelo or Kovalainen 2.0.

 

That being said, I think he will have an even harder time to defeat Hami in 2015.



#23 Freo

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Posted 24 November 2014 - 15:34

Lewis will be mighty on confidence level. And we've seen this year what he delivers when he feels confident. I hope the rest of the field can mix up with the Merc boys.

Edited by Freo, 24 November 2014 - 15:34.


#24 RubalSher

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Posted 24 November 2014 - 15:37

I just want to add that those who thought this year will be a walk in the park for Lewis haven't payed close attention to Rosberg's career. He wasn't going to be Barrichelo or Kovalainen 2.0.

 

That being said, I think he will have an even harder time to defeat Hami in 2015.

 

11 wins out of 14 races that he did not DNF in or start from the back of the grid. If this isnt a walk in the park, then what is?

 

All Nico managed to do more successfully than the Barrichello's & Webber's of this world is that he reliably finished 2nd for the most part (Ten 2nds in 19 races). And there is not a damn thing that Lewis can do about that. Unfortunately for us, given that the sport needs to sold as an entertainment product with the need to keep drivers close, the points scoring system hardly places much value in race wins. The gap between winning and P2 is small and that is why there is a mirage that Nico was a lot closer than he really was.



#25 MastaKink

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Posted 24 November 2014 - 15:47

3 DNF's a piece (lets call last night a DNF)

 

1 each before the race started fundamentally (Aus, Sing)

1 whilst leading (Can, Silverstone)

1 resulting in a wounded slow car (Spa, Abu)

 

11 wins to 5

 

One driver did not successfully complete an overtake on the other all season

 

One driver had to start at the back twice

 

One driver qualified very well, one raced very well

 

One deserved it.

 

Rosberg had a wounded car in Canada as well.



#26 RubalSher

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Posted 24 November 2014 - 15:48

Final.jpg



#27 Ramses1348

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Posted 24 November 2014 - 16:00

I just want to add that those who thought this year will be a walk in the park for Lewis haven't payed close attention to Rosberg's career. He wasn't going to be Barrichelo or Kovalainen 2.0.

 

That being said, I think he will have an even harder time to defeat Hami in 2015.

 

Well he (Nico) was not that far up from Nakajima in qualifying back in those days (gap was usually around 2 tenth IIRC) -> so yes I expected the new Senna to walkover Nico during saturdays, which to my surprise did not happen :o 

 

I'm also of the view that this was more than probably due to set up. In the end 11 wins VS 5 just shows that it was the right thing to do for Lewis to focus on Sundays. Still like many others here I expect him to get the upper hand on Saturdays as well next year.  



#28 TT6

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Posted 24 November 2014 - 16:03

Must have been pretty close fight among those since the WDC fight was up and going in the last race. No total domination by Hamilton, just that much better race craft that he was able to win it. Looking forward to next season!

#29 maverick69

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Posted 24 November 2014 - 16:11

Nico can drive a car very, very fast - but it's obvious what he's been up to in qualy...... Set it up for the front of the grid - then attempt to get out of DRS range by hammering the tyres and the fuel for a few laps..... Just like Vettel used to do to Webber etc.

The problem is - is that it's Lewis Hamilton up his gearbox in the same car...... In his prime......

So very "cat and mouse"........ Which is the term being bounded around I'm led to believe. Big money deal on offer too. I've got a funny feeling a certain clause may have been activated........ But the Daimler board are doing backflips and star jumps because they're like a room without a roof ;)

The other key point is that ironically it's actually not Fred who has (self proclaimed to have) controlled the driver market - it was Hamilton all along! Lol! Four (technically 5 if SFW got his way) plumb drives were available.

But hey....... I could be talking out my arse.

Edited by maverick69, 24 November 2014 - 16:13.


#30 amppatel

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Posted 24 November 2014 - 16:30

Nico can drive a car very, very fast - but it's obvious what he's been up to in qualy...... Set it up for the front of the grid - then attempt to get out of DRS range by hammering the tyres and the fuel for a few laps..... Just like Vettel used to do to Webber etc.

The problem is - is that it's Lewis Hamilton up his gearbox in the same car...... In his prime......

So very "cat and mouse"........ Which is the term being bounded around I'm led to believe. Big money deal on offer too. I've got a funny feeling a certain clause may have been activated........ But the Daimler board are doing backflips and star jumps because they're like a room without a roof ;)

The other key point is that ironically it's actually not Fred who has (self proclaimed to have) controlled the driver market - it was Hamilton all along! Lol! Four (technically 5 if SFW got his way) plumb drives were available.

But hey....... I could be talking out my arse.

 

I hate people who talk in riddles....



#31 Jon83

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Posted 24 November 2014 - 16:56

Over the piece, the best man won. I don't think that is in doubt.

 

I'm just grateful we had a championship fight as after Spain, I didn't see it being likely. Well done to both drivers and well done to Mercedes on how they managed a difficult situation and obviously on producing one of the most dominant cars we'll ever see.

 

It was nice to see the two drivers embrace one another after the race. Credit to both. A good moment for the sport.



#32 baddog

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Posted 24 November 2014 - 19:09

Lewis' stock has definitely not dropped, I'd say it has increased as has Nico's. 

 

I think this is true. BOTH drivers are now sealed in peoples minds as top championsip contenders. Lewis already was but it has been a long time and this confirms he still has it.. and Nico took one of the very best to the wire and people will not forget that. Both had great seasons really.



#33 Ducks

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Posted 24 November 2014 - 19:34

Final.jpg

 

"I dont always finish but when I do its on the podium"



#34 jestaudio

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Posted 24 November 2014 - 19:46

I honestly think this year was the best chance for Rosberg, new cars and tech, next year the cars should be far more reliable( hopefully) and finishing second will not be enough, unfortunately for Rosberg the very fact he has yet to overtake Hamilton on the racetrack while having been on the receiving end says to me volumes, he is a damned good driver but all things being equal not in the same class as the likes of Alonso, Hamilton etc, I suspect the only way he will get a WDC is with a lesser team mate or for Hamilton to have a shite year in terms of reliability



#35 RekF1

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Posted 24 November 2014 - 21:18

They've both demonstrated serious speed in qualifying in their careers. Nico's had the edge this year, Germany, Hungary, Silverstone and Monaco skew the result a little, but it's unfair to assume Lewis would've won them all.

The cars are relatively easy to drive this year, so it must be tempting to brake that much later to eek out a tenth or two.

Another thing. In practice and qualifying, Lewis constantly locked up on his hot laps. Come raceday, the opposite was true. Considering track evolution, I think it could be something simple as a little less down force on Lewis side, as he knows the track will come to him on Sundays.

#36 redreni

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Posted 24 November 2014 - 22:12

I think the points more or less tell the story. The period after Spa was obviously very telling. Nico lost too many battles.

 

Beyond looking at the points totals, one has to adjust to take account of certain outside influences:

 

1. Double points mean the gap is 25 points bigger than it would normally have been. Adjust by 25 points towards Rosberg

2. Hamilton was unlucky in having to start from the back in Germany and Hungary, whereas Rosberg was always able to start from his grid position (except at Singapore, which counts as a DNF, and therefore doesn't count since the DNFs effectively balanced each other out over the season). However, in such a dominant car this is not as big a disadvantage as it might appear because, frankly, getting past the rest of the field, except your teammate, over the course of an hour and a half should be child's play in that car. But I reckon it led to a 14 point swing against him in Germany, where he had the pace to win, and would have led to a similar swing in Hungary had it been a normal race. Adjust 24 points towards Hamilton (14 for Germany and 10 for Hungary, on the basis that he'd have beaten RIC and ALO starting from the front row).

3. Rosberg would have won in Hungary if not for the outrageous misfortune of being in the last corner when the SC was deployed, and having to do a whole lap at SC speed. Adjust 13 points towards Rosberg.

 

I make no adjustment for Monaco and Spa as there were no outside influences - it was between the drivers. So I conclude that Hamilton deservedly won the title and Rosberg deservedly lost it. I think the margin wasn't huge. I also think the criticism of Rosberg failing to overtake Hamilton is a little harsh - if you're quicker than somebody, you shouldn't need to overtake them. You should be ahead. If you look at the races Nico won, that was the case, and if you look at most of the races he lost, he was slower. If you're behind somebody and you're slower, then you're not going to pass them regardless of how good or bad your racecraft is. The only time Nico should have passed Lewis. and was out-raced, was Bahrain, and I agree with much of the criticism there. Lewis did have to get very robust to keep his place there, though, and anybody who doesn't see the connection between events there and at Spa is not paying enough attention, as far as I'm concerned.

 

I'd also make the point that, insofar as the current ease of passing with lower downforce, higher top speeds, bigger braking events and Super Mario Flap rewards race pace over qualifying pace, this has played very much into Hamilton's hands. Anyone who got outqualified by his teammate would simply not have been able to win eleven races under the regulations as they were four years ago.

 

And one final point; I think the way the team handled the two drivers was interesting. When Hamilton ignored a legitimate team order in Hungary, the clout he and his management have within the team became obvious, so much so that the team ended up apologising to him rather than vice versa, and this one incident showed to the outside world a glimpse of what Rosberg had, perhaps, been up against all along. We can't be sure without inside knowledge, of course, but it seems like what Lewis wants, Lewis gets, and that's only set to continue into next year now that he has won the title with them. I didn't think the team responded appropriately to what I saw as Hamilton's obstructive behaviour during the race in Hungary, which only benefited Fernando Alonso, giving Ferrari our best result of the year (thanks for that, Lewis). And I didn't agree with their absolutely ridiculous reaction to the Spa incident, which I thought made a mountain out of a molehill, as compared with their reaction to Hamilton leaking the content of a private meeting about the incident, where the team's non-reaction rather made a molehill out of what I would have thought was quite a serious breach of etiquette. None of these things affects how I evaluate the season in terms of how the two men drove, but I can't help thinking the team has got its preferred outcome from the battle between its two drivers.

 

It's extremely dangerous for any driver who is paired with a more illustrious teammate, who has a more impressive CV and a bigger pay cheque and a higher profile, that a perceived "natural order" will quite readily establish itself, and become self-fulfiilling to a certain extent. Rosberg's determination over the past two years to keep coming back and getting results, and his refusal to roll over, have impressed me, but it was always going to be hard for him to establish any kind of perceived natural order in his favour. Now that he's lost the battle this season, I fear the rot has set in and he will find it incredibly difficult to take results off Hamilton hereinafter, even occasionally, because frankly, there are now senior elements in the team (I'm not necessarily saying Niki Lauda) which actively don't want him to. It's a small step from here to the Mark Webber situation where you'd have Hamilton's side of the garage cannibalising Nico's race car for parts...


Edited by redreni, 24 November 2014 - 22:17.


#37 redreni

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Posted 24 November 2014 - 22:13

They've both demonstrated serious speed in qualifying in their careers. Nico's had the edge this year, Germany, Hungary, Silverstone and Monaco skew the result a little, but it's unfair to assume Lewis would've won them all.

The cars are relatively easy to drive this year, so it must be tempting to brake that much later to eek out a tenth or two.

Another thing. In practice and qualifying, Lewis constantly locked up on his hot laps. Come raceday, the opposite was true. Considering track evolution, I think it could be something simple as a little less down force on Lewis side, as he knows the track will come to him on Sundays.

 

Silverstone doesn't skew the result at all, Nico simply outqualified him.



#38 P123

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Posted 24 November 2014 - 22:57

I'd also make the point that, insofar as the current ease of passing with lower downforce, higher top speeds, bigger braking events and Super Mario Flap rewards race pace over qualifying pace, this has played very much into Hamilton's hands. Anyone who got outqualified by his teammate would simply not have been able to win eleven races under the regulations as they were four years ago.


On the surface that would be true, but in terms of relevance to their battle this season it's limited. The DRS had influence in battle between them in one race, and that was the USA. It could be argued it aided Nico somewhat in Bahrain, but in the end it wasn't pivotal to the result there. They both benefitted from DRS when coming through the field- Hamilton in Germany, Rosberg in Russia, so evenly balanced there.

And one final point; I think the way the team handled the two drivers was interesting. When Hamilton ignored a legitimate team order in Hungary, the clout he and his management have within the team became obvious, so much so that the team ended up apologising to him rather than vice versa, and this one incident showed to the outside world a glimpse of what Rosberg had, perhaps, been up against all along. We can't be sure without inside knowledge, of course, but it seems like what Lewis wants, Lewis gets, and that's only set to continue into next year now that he has won the title with them. I didn't think the team responded appropriately to what I saw as Hamilton's obstructive behaviour during the race in Hungary, which only benefited Fernando Alonso, giving Ferrari our best result of the year (thanks for that, Lewis). And I didn't agree with their absolutely ridiculous reaction to the Spa incident, which I thought made a mountain out of a molehill, as compared with their reaction to Hamilton leaking the content of a private meeting about the incident, where the team's non-reaction rather made a molehill out of what I would have thought was quite a serious breach of etiquette. None of these things affects how I evaluate the season in terms of how the two men drove, but I can't help thinking the team has got its preferred outcome from the battle between its two drivers.


No, the order was not legitimate. It was an error. It was asking one driver to sacrifice their own race for the questionable benefit of a driver who hadn't demonstrated to be clearly faster and was a direct competitor in that race and the WDC. This coming after the driver had fought their way through the field after being unable to take part in qualifying for the second race in a row. The fact it was given at all perhaps gives lie to your theory of the team being Hamilton cheerleaders influenced by Hamilton's non-existant management. And whilst I agree with you that the team handled Spa badly it's quite bizarre to consider actions taken on track as less serious than words spoken to the press; the version of which was corroborated by Wolff, the only difference being the interpretation of Rosberg's 'explanation' (when in a hole, stop digging should be the lesson Nico takes from that!) by the respective parties.

#39 andrewf1

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Posted 24 November 2014 - 22:58

And one final point; I think the way the team handled the two drivers was interesting. When Hamilton ignored a legitimate team order in Hungary, the clout he and his management have within the team became obvious, so much so that the team ended up apologising to him rather than vice versa, and this one incident showed to the outside world a glimpse of what Rosberg had, perhaps, been up against all along. We can't be sure without inside knowledge, of course, but it seems like what Lewis wants, Lewis gets.

 

Getting real tired of this BS :rolleyes:  Even Nico himself eventually got over it, yet here it is again. The team apologised to Lewis because they were wrong to issue the team order and to intervene in the WDC battle. All of this after Germany and after Lewis' goddamn car caught fire the day before.

If you can't come to terms with that, it's fine, but please don't revert to blaming Hamilton, his management, his side of the garage and the team for your inability to comprehend a decision based on common sense.


Edited by andrewf1, 24 November 2014 - 23:01.


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#40 P123

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Posted 24 November 2014 - 22:59

Season review? Nico better in qualifying. Lewis better on raceday.

#41 Boxerevo

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Posted 24 November 2014 - 23:19

In truth, if you get Hamilton career since a spermatozoon he wasn't the fastest always but he was always a prodigy to find the way to finish first.

 

At least for me, he was always better on race pace than qualy but he is very very strong in saturdays, i still find him the best qualifier in averagew without problems.

 

I Knew Nico was fast, faster than Button and maybe Alonso in qualifying but i will wait till next year to understand it better, he won qualy surely this year fair and square  by a little margin with Lewis problems in mind.

 

Still that Nico is clearly weaker than Alonso and Button coming racing day imho.

 

Lewis won easily the war in the raceday.


Edited by Boxerevo, 24 November 2014 - 23:28.


#42 redreni

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Posted 24 November 2014 - 23:32

On the surface that would be true, but in terms of relevance to their battle this season it's limited. The DRS had influence in battle between them in one race, and that was the USA. It could be argued it aided Nico somewhat in Bahrain, but in the end it wasn't pivotal to the result there. They both benefitted from DRS when coming through the field- Hamilton in Germany, Rosberg in Russia, so evenly balanced there.


No, the order was not legitimate. It was an error. It was asking one driver to sacrifice their own race for the questionable benefit of a driver who hadn't demonstrated to be clearly faster and was a direct competitor in that race and the WDC. This coming after the driver had fought their way through the field after being unable to take part in qualifying for the second race in a row. The fact it was given at all perhaps gives lie to your theory of the team being Hamilton cheerleaders influenced by Hamilton's non-existant management. And whilst I agree with you that the team handled Spa badly it's quite bizarre to consider actions taken on track as less serious than words spoken to the press; the version of which was corroborated by Wolff, the only difference being the interpretation of Rosberg's 'explanation' (when in a hole, stop digging should be the lesson Nico takes from that!) by the respective parties.

 

 

Getting real tired of this BS :rolleyes:  Even Nico himself eventually got over it, yet here it is again. The team apologised to Lewis because they were wrong to issue the team order and to intervene in the WDC battle. All of this after Germany and after Lewis' goddamn car caught fire the day before.

If you can't come to terms with that, it's fine, but please don't revert to blaming Hamilton, his management, his side of the garage and the team for your inability to comprehend a decision based on common sense.

 

I don't see the team orders thing like that. For the simple reason that the system can't be that drivers are only expected to follow team orders if they turn out, when analysed post-race, to be "justified" (by whatever criteria one may wish to apply). We could argue, with hindsight, about whether the order was justified. It rather depends on your criteria for evaluating it - and I certainly don't agree, for example, that what happened in qualifying at the previous event, or even the previous day, is the slightest bit relevant - but Hamilton was in no position to judge that and it's not his job to judge it. And he didn't try. He opted not to abide by the instruction purely and simply because he thought that doing so would be bad for him. That's the fundamental point that people skirt around.

 

That's not blaming Hamilton for being selfish, because in my view all the best drivers are selfish, and it's not blaming him for poor judgement because he obviously judged that he could get away with it and he was right. But I am criticising the team for taking the line that they did, because I think if it's worth giving a team order then it's worth expecting that it should be followed and not just accepting that a driver can decide to overrule it.

 

As far as I'm concerned, a team that thinks it's worth giving team orders at all should no condone its drivers electing not to follow them, even if when analysed, the team order itself turned out to be a tactical blunder. Tacticians are employed to determine the tactics, not drivers. And anyway, in this case, there's no way the team's overall result would have suffered had its drivers executed the tactics as instructed by the team's tacticians, and they may well have got Rosberg ahead of Alonso. So again, cheers for giving us our best result of the season, Lewis!



#43 pizzalover

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Posted 24 November 2014 - 23:52

Rosberg not able get into the groove and  apply any pressure to Hamilton on race day.  

 

No groove no championship.

 

Hamilton less than convincing too. 



#44 andrewf1

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Posted 24 November 2014 - 23:57

But I am criticising the team for taking the line that they did, because I think if it's worth giving a team order then it's worth expecting that it should be followed and not just accepting that a driver can decide to overrule it.

 

As far as I'm concerned, a team that thinks it's worth giving team orders at all should no condone its drivers electing not to follow them, even if when analysed, the team order itself turned out to be a tactical blunder. Tacticians are employed to determine the tactics, not drivers.

Highly disagree. So you'd rather treat the driver unfairly, because you're unwilling to admit your own mistake. You'd rather protect the sanctity of an erroneous "team order", instead of maintaining a healthy relationship with your driver based on rationale and decency.



#45 weareracing

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Posted 25 November 2014 - 00:08

The Mercedes AMG Petronas W05 was THE Rocket-ship on the grid, reminded me of the 1988 McLaren MP4/4.

Both drivers took advantage of their superior machinery and failed to win just 3 races that Dan Ricciardo took in the RB10.

In Canada Lewis retired and Nico nursed the same fault to finish 2nd to the Red Bull Driver.

In Hungary Lewis started from the pit-lane to finish 3rd, just ahead of Nico, another win for the Red Bull.

And, Spa........... yes we all remember THAT one.

Nico surprised me with his qualifying ability, Saturday belonged to him, narrowly.

But Championships are only won on race-days over the season and Lewis clocked up 11 race wins.

Would have loved more teams and drivers in the mix but WELL DONE Lewis, a deserved 2nd World Championship.

I would suggest a 3rd will follow in 2015.

See you in Australia in about 110 days time.



#46 SamH123

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Posted 25 November 2014 - 00:12

It's kind of weird that Hamilton was slightly inferior in Qualifying but absolutely dominant in the races

 

I don't think there is any other team-mate pairing on the grid that has such disparity  :confused:



#47 RekF1

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Posted 25 November 2014 - 00:17

I don't see the team orders thing like that. For the simple reason that the system can't be that drivers are only expected to follow team orders if they turn out, when analysed post-race, to be "justified" (by whatever criteria one may wish to apply). We could argue, with hindsight, about whether the order was justified. It rather depends on your criteria for evaluating it - and I certainly don't agree, for example, that what happened in qualifying at the previous event, or even the previous day, is the slightest bit relevant - but Hamilton was in no position to judge that and it's not his job to judge it. And he didn't try. He opted not to abide by the instruction purely and simply because he thought that doing so would be bad for him. That's the fundamental point that people skirt around.
 
That's not blaming Hamilton for being selfish, because in my view all the best drivers are selfish, and it's not blaming him for poor judgement because he obviously judged that he could get away with it and he was right. But I am criticising the team for taking the line that they did, because I think if it's worth giving a team order then it's worth expecting that it should be followed and not just accepting that a driver can decide to overrule it.
 
As far as I'm concerned, a team that thinks it's worth giving team orders at all should no condone its drivers electing not to follow them, even if when analysed, the team order itself turned out to be a tactical blunder. Tacticians are employed to determine the tactics, not drivers. And anyway, in this case, there's no way the team's overall result would have suffered had its drivers executed the tactics as instructed by the team's tacticians, and they may well have got Rosberg ahead of Alonso. So again, cheers for giving us our best result of the season, Lewis!


The problem with this is that Hamilton had track position on Nico in Hungary. There was no need to put them on alternate strategies, especially as the harder tyre was clearly the inferior race tyre.

Iirc, Bottas did 2 early stints on the harder tyre and even the commentators were saying the harder tyre wasn't the right choice.

The whole episode exposed the rigidity in Mercedes strategy. Had Mercedes pit them both for the soft tyre, instead of just Nico, Lewis could've won that race..... From the pit lane.

Nico couldn't even overtake JEV's Red-Mule (©rekf1™), so how's he going to get by Ricciardo's Redbull? Or Alonso?

The data was there. Nico wasn't fast enough that day, whilst Lewis was flying.

#48 akshay380

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Posted 25 November 2014 - 00:25

Hamiltions now non existent management has not been to any races this year except Australia so I don't really know how they managed to put pressure on Merc as said by redreni above.

Edited by akshay380, 25 November 2014 - 00:26.


#49 RekF1

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Posted 25 November 2014 - 00:29

Don't lie to me

Ezx0XiN.gif



#50 maverick69

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Posted 25 November 2014 - 00:44

I hate people who talk in riddles....

Thanks guys  :cry:

 

And I thought we were friends Watkins  :(  :mad:

 

:p


Edited by maverick69, 25 November 2014 - 00:48.