1629 replies to this topic

[kosmos]

From La Gazzetta.
 


 

Wolff “#Hamilton renewal? We will discuss it during the year but I’m optimistic, #Alonso is the first alternative,then #Bottas”
 
Wolff “We are in line with the programs,with our 2015 car,and we have a clear idea of where we are in terms of chassis and engine”
 
#Wolff “The #W06 will be on track on mid-Juanary when we planned to have a test in Silverstone”
 
#Wolff “I do not rule out the chance to unveil the new car at Jerez during the first day of testing ”
 
Wolff “#Bottas in #Ferrari? In Maranello don’t have many options when #Raikkonen contrct will expire. There aren’t foreclosures to the fact that #Bottas future is out of #Mercedes"
 
Wolff ”Alonso at #McLaren? He’s dangerous with any car. If he have a car that can arrive 6th, he can takes it in 3rd place”
 
Wolff “#Vettel brings 4 world titles, enthusiasm and experience. Will be an incredible stimulus for the poeple in #Ferrari"
 
Wolff “The most dangerous opponent in 2015 will be Williams, but I am afraid of Red Bull too, they won four titles in a row and fielding every resource to return to fight for the title”
 
Source: http://lorenzodl83.t...will-discuss-it

 
Some interesting stuff, mid-January test?, is that a filming day?.

Edited by kosmos, 08 March 2015 - 10:37.

[MissingTheApex]

I would have thought so, a shakedown really.  There's the caveat that the car might not be ready though.

 

So Alonso then Bottas?  That also might be a stick to beat Hamilton's contract demands down with.

[garoidb]

I would have thought so, a shakedown really.  There's the caveat that the car might not be ready though.

 

So Alonso then Bottas?  That also might be a stick to beat Hamilton's contract demands down with.

 

How strong is Lewis's negotiating position really? Where would he go? Back to McLaren in a straight swap for Fernando? Or alongside Vettel at Ferrari in 2016 (could be interesting)?

Edited by garoidb, 31 December 2014 - 10:04.

[RubalSher]

But isnt Alonso locked in for 3 years? I cant see Dennis & co letting him go in a year's time.

[redreni]

Makes sense to let your star driver know that you have a decent fallback position. The reality is, with the car they have, they could win with Rosberg, they could win with Bottas, they could defintiely win with Alonso. Last year, let's be honest, they could have won with Gutierrez and Kobayashi. So while they want the best driver they can get, they don't have to pay silly money for an exceptional one when a very good one will do the job quite nicely as well.

 

It's amazing how many times the WDC has failed to negotiate a contract extension for one reason or another. Hill and Villeneueve in the late 90s, Alonso after his titles, Button after his. Either they fancy a new challenge, or they make what the team considers to be excessive salary demands.

[kosmos]

But isnt Alonso locked in for 3 years?

 

 

Only if you believe what Dennis said.

[LORDBYRON]

 

From La Gazzetta.

 

 

 

Some interesting stuff, mid-January test?, is that a filming day?.

 

Wolff “#Hamilton renewal? We will discuss it during the year but I’m optimistic, #Alonso is the first alternative,then #Bottas”

 

We herd the same stuff throughout last year seems to me its a done deal he is leaving he may well have already singed as pre deal (based on honda performance) to replace button

Edited by LORDBYRON, 31 December 2014 - 10:48.

[GoldenColt]

A year ago I was hoping for Lewis to sign a new contract with Merc asap, but now that there might be some big changes coming for 2016 and beyond, I believe he should wait another 6 months if he can afford to do so. Win a few more races, become the most succesful driver on the current grid in terms of race wins, study the other teams political moves and plans and see where you can end up being in the best possible position for the coming years.

 

Wishful thinking of course.

[RubalSher]

Makes sense to let your star driver know that you have a decent fallback position. The reality is, with the car they have, they could win with Rosberg, they could win with Bottas, they could defintiely win with Alonso. Last year, let's be honest, they could have won with Gutierrez and Kobayashi. So while they want the best driver they can get, they don't have to pay silly money for an exceptional one when a very good one will do the job quite nicely as well.

 

It's amazing how many times the WDC has failed to negotiate a contract extension for one reason or another. Hill and Villeneueve in the late 90s, Alonso after his titles, Button after his. Either they fancy a new challenge, or they make what the team considers to be excessive salary demands.

 

Yeah but this only works if they can see into the future and know that any driver on the grid can win them a title. Alonso was paid obscene amount of money for 2015, so why should Lewis not be in the same ballpark? In any case, if what you say is true, then Alonso would have to take a substantial cut in salary to have any hope of joining Merc for 2016 and Lewis would probably know that Ferrari, RBR or McLaren would be ready to match any obscene amount he has on his mind.

[P123]

I don't think there is any rush for either party to agree a new contract.  It can be discussed through the year.  The interesting aspect is them openly targeting Alonso, so the longer such negotiations continue the more it will be interesting to see how that will affect the Alonso relationship with McLaren, should the McLaren package underperform and the Mercedes continue to be the most competitive package.

 

Mercedes do have a slight position of strength, but even with the best car it is still preferable to have the best drivers possible, rather than gift them to a competitor.

[MissingTheApex]

How strong is Lewis's negotiating position really? Where would he go? Back to McLaren in a straight swap for Fernando? Or alongside Vettel at Ferrari in 2016 (could be interesting)?

 

I'd say it was very, very strong.  Look at the amount of Facebook, twitterati that followed Hamilton over to AMG, look at their brand awareness now.  It's never just raw speed, which obviously helps, it's about a number of things.  When AMG signed Hamilton, they said openly that they want to change the demographic of people who buy into the AMG brand and at the same time, started releasing models like the AMG45, the CLA45 and other smaller models that younger more fashion aware buyers would get into.  Rosberg doesn't sell that, Hamilton does.

 

But isnt Alonso locked in for 3 years? I cant see Dennis & co letting him go in a year's time.

 

Wasn't Alonso locked in at Maranello for 2015 and beyond?

 

Makes sense to let your star driver know that you have a decent fallback position. The reality is, with the car they have, they could win with Rosberg, they could win with Bottas, they could defintiely win with Alonso. Last year, let's be honest, they could have won with Gutierrez and Kobayashi. So while they want the best driver they can get, they don't have to pay silly money for an exceptional one when a very good one will do the job quite nicely as well.

 

It's amazing how many times the WDC has failed to negotiate a contract extension for one reason or another. Hill and Villeneueve in the late 90s, Alonso after his titles, Button after his. Either they fancy a new challenge, or they make what the team considers to be excessive salary demands.

 

It's simply not just about the driving, it's about what they bring to the team as a marketing tool.  Red Bull, Merc, Mclaren, Williams need to shift stuff, be that cars or their engineering knowledge, they use F1 as a platform now, this isn't about the old days.

 

I once read that if you put all the F1 drivers in the field, they'd be around half a second between them in the same car.  That the differences are in the 1/10ths, the 1/100ths that the very top drivers bring.

 

I dare say if they had Guittierrez in the Merc and Hamilton/Alonso in the Williams or Red Bull, they'd have won less races than they did.  That's just an opinion.

[RubalSher]

Wasn't Alonso locked in at Maranello for 2015 and beyond?

 

Yup but Maranello had had enough of Alonso after 5 years as much as Alonso had had enough of them. It was a mutual separation and I cant see Dennis and Honda letting Alonso go after 1 year unless he costs the team another 100 mill

[RubalSher]

At the very least, Merc will have to pay through the nose for buying Alonso out and this defeats their very purpose of trying to keep driver salaries down.

[MissingTheApex]

I know, it's all smoke and mirrors - 'If Hamilton demands too much, we'll bring in Alonso, for too much too, and buy him out....'.

It's all about positioning themselves, trying to get themselves in the best perceived position.  For me, if Hamilton starts 2015 well, he can demand the moon on a stick and he'll get it somewhere.

[kosmos]

At the very least, Merc will have to pay through the nose for buying Alonso out and this defeats their very purpose of trying to keep driver salaries down.

 

Maybe not.

[maverick69]

Lewis is not going to leave Merc - and I also wouldn't be surprised if what Wolff actually said was lost in translation.

 

AFAIK, it's not the money that's the sticking point - it's some of the inflexibility in Mercs strategies and procedures that he finds frustrating, and ironically, unfair. Obviously he'll be lobbying for a bit of change on that front. 

[Amphicar]

It's amazing how many times the WDC has failed to negotiate a contract extension for one reason or another. Hill and Villeneueve in the late 90s, Alonso after his titles, Button after his. Either they fancy a new challenge, or they make what the team considers to be excessive salary demands.

Button had signed a multi-year (and multi-million dollar) contract extension with Honda towards the end of 2008 - only to have Honda decide to pull out of F1 racing. Button could have held Honda to the financial terms of the contract but chose not to, thereby allowing Honda to use the money saved to provide the fledgling Brawn team with funding without upsetting the shareholders. So in a way, apart from Virgin, the main sponsor of the Brawn team was driving the car! 

[prty]

Yup but Maranello had had enough of Alonso after 5 years as much as Alonso had had enough of them.

 

 

[CHIUNDA]

I hope this doesn't distract Lewis from his most important assignment in 2015 ie to win a 3rd WDC. Consequently, everything else will fall in place.

As for saving on salaries, that automatically rules Alonso out. He is by far the most expensive driver on the grid. So the thing about him being an option, let alone the first option is very much likely alot of grand standing and posturing.

Nonetheless, not dismissing conspiracy theories at this stage.

[pRy]

Wolff “#Hamilton renewal? We will discuss it during the year but I’m optimistic, #Alonso is the first alternative,then #Bottas”

 

We herd the same stuff throughout last year seems to me its a done deal he is leaving he may well have already singed as pre deal (based on honda performance) to replace button

 

Yeah this was the biggest surprise quote for me.. I assumed it was a collection of quotes from the entire year but if he's now saying they'll discuss a contract next year.. didn't they say the deal would be done quickly after the season ended?

[Nathan]

Who here has seen Alonso's McLaren contract??

[Amphicar]

Who here has seen Alonso's McLaren contract??

I guess that will be a round number of people.

[Radion]

I know, it's all smoke and mirrors - 'If Hamilton demands too much, we'll bring in Alonso, for too much too, and buy him out....'.

It's all about positioning themselves, trying to get themselves in the best perceived position.  For me, if Hamilton starts 2015 well, he can demand the moon on a stick and he'll get it somewhere.

 

In my opinion, it will also depend on how good the merc package will be and what kind of changes 2016 might bring.

If merc is still as dominant, they will have the upper hand in the negotiations  as there are a bunch of other drivers who could win them championships easily. Plus they'd be a lot cheaper than Ham. 

 

If Honda/Renault/Ferrari will be up there with them, I for one would want a driver like Hamilton.

[garoidb]

To what extent might it suit Mercedes to have a few different drivers win championships with them through their period of high competitiveness? 

[alframsey]

I'm getting the same sort of vibe regarding Hamilton's contract that I did when he was negotiating with McLaren, it's making me quite concerned.

[Exb]

Did Lewis ever replace his management after splitting with XIX? I guess that could be holding up proceedings if he is still looking for a new manager.

Maybe both sides (Lewis and Merc) want to see how next year starts before committing to anything? I guess Merc won't be happy if there is still conflict between both drivers (it did cause them some bad PR last season - I'm not saying it was Lewis's fault but it must be something Merc were aware of and want to avoid again and if Lewis and Nico are still having issues then maybe replacing one of them is the only way forward. If that is the case then logic suggests they keep Lewis but Nico has a new long term deal from last year and if Merc (Toto) genuinely think Nico is championship material then maybe its easier to keep him and not renew Lewis's contract). From Lewis's point of view he can go pretty much where he wants and with seats available at Ferrari and McLaren in the near future he has plenty of options if they look like they will be competitive in 2016. A Lot of ifs on my part - I'm just trying to think of any reason why they may not re-sign but I think the most likely scenario is that Lewis stays at Merc as both parties have said that is what they want. I think Toto is just trying to increase his bargaining power for the upcoming negotiations by suggesting replacements, I'm sure Merc can afford and don't mind paying Lewis an amazing salary but they still want that to be as low as possible.

[GoldenColt]

I'm getting the same sort of vibe regarding Hamilton's contract that I did when he was negotiating with McLaren, it's making me quite concerned.

 

Especially as it turned out to be a terrible mistake, right?

Edited by GoldenColt, 31 December 2014 - 15:35.

[Newbrray]

Car unveiled in Mid-January, it just occurred to me thats just 2 weeks away. 

 

nothing like a good old fashioned unveiling to wet my appetite

 

How come there's no W06 thread yet but we have MP30 and the F666, Toto has spoken shouldn't that be enough to start a thread ( an indirect question to mods )

[alframsey]

Did Lewis ever replace his management after splitting with XIX? I guess that could be holding up proceedings if he is still looking for a new manager.

Maybe both sides (Lewis and Merc) want to see how next year starts before committing to anything? I guess Merc won't be happy if there is still conflict between both drivers (it did cause them some bad PR last season - I'm not saying it was Lewis's fault but it must be something Merc were aware of and want to avoid again and if Lewis and Nico are still having issues then maybe replacing one of them is the only way forward. If that is the case then logic suggests they keep Lewis but Nico has a new long term deal from last year and if Merc (Toto) genuinely think Nico is championship material then maybe its easier to keep him and not renew Lewis's contract). From Lewis's point of view he can go pretty much where he wants and with seats available at Ferrari and McLaren in the near future he has plenty of options if they look like they will be competitive in 2016. A Lot of ifs on my part - I'm just trying to think of any reason why they may not re-sign but I think the most likely scenario is that Lewis stays at Merc as both parties have said that is what they want. I think Toto is just trying to increase his bargaining power for the upcoming negotiations by suggesting replacements, I'm sure Merc can afford and don't mind paying Lewis an amazing salary but they still want that to be as low as possible.

Last time I heard Lewis speaking about his contract he said he would be negotiating it himself.

[TomNokoe]

Toto, you can have Alonso, what a strange man

[surbjits]

Alonso was paid obscene amount of money for 2015

 

Because Ferrari couldn't guarantee a WDC car for him? Considering how dominant Merc are at the moment, they are in a more advantageous position in bringing down salary demands. I'm sure Alonso would take a huge cut if he could drive that Merc.

 

Edited by surbjits, 31 December 2014 - 16:43.

[SpartanChas]

Makes sense to let your star driver know that you have a decent fallback position. The reality is, with the car they have, they could win with Rosberg, they could win with Bottas, they could defintiely win with Alonso. Last year, let's be honest, they could have won with Gutierrez and Kobayashi. So while they want the best driver they can get, they don't have to pay silly money for an exceptional one when a very good one will do the job quite nicely as well.

 

It's amazing how many times the WDC has failed to negotiate a contract extension for one reason or another. Hill and Villeneueve in the late 90s, Alonso after his titles, Button after his. Either they fancy a new challenge, or they make what the team considers to be excessive salary demands.

 

That attitude won't help them keep winning the championship year after year. In hindsight, yes, they could have had both championships with Sutil and Heidfeld this year, but the other teams are guaranteed to gain ground in the coming seasons, so they need a top driver to keep things going.

 

Red Bull might well have decided to get rid of Vettel and Webber to bring in Coletti and Razia for 2012 after being so far ahead in 11 but they wouldn't have won anything.

 

............

 

I thought Mercedes weren't going to go looking for anyone to replace Lewis until he decided to quit? And surely they could bring Bottas straight in in that even, and he'd do a decent job.

[surbjits]

I know, it's all smoke and mirrors - 'If Hamilton demands too much, we'll bring in Alonso, for too much too, and buy him out....'.

It's all about positioning themselves, trying to get themselves in the best perceived position.  For me, if Hamilton starts 2015 well, he can demand the moon on a stick and he'll get it somewhere.

 

Not necessarily, if Merc are still 1sec ahead of everyone else then Merc are still in the dominant position. If the field is tight and Hamilton is blowing Rosberg away, then you'd be right.

[garoidb]

As a point of reference, Nico's new contract was announced in mid-July last year. In other words, the deal was done about half a season before the old contract expired. It could be a while yet before there is any news. 

[SpartanChas]

I thought both parties were keen to get it out of the way soon after the season though? And it's pretty much a formality as Lewis doesn't want to go anywhere and Mercedes aren't looking for someone else.

[Myrvold]

It's amazing how many times the WDC has failed to negotiate a contract extension for one reason or another. Hill and Villeneueve in the late 90s, Alonso after his titles, Button after his. Either they fancy a new challenge, or they make what the team considers to be excessive salary demands.

Uhm, I thought that none of these drivers actually failed to negotiate a contract? Hill got effectively "fired" after 95. Villeneuve was convinced by his manager Craig Bollocks... uhm Pollock, to go to BAR. Alonso went to McLaren (his wish IIRC) and Button also went to McLaren (Again his wish IIRC).

[SpartanChas]

Didn't Alonso sign for McLaren before he even started his second World Championship-winning campaign?

 

As I said before, neither party has any real reason not to continue this partnership, so it would be a massive surprise if it didn't continue beyond 2015.

[GrumpyYoungMan]

The danger is negotiations stopped this year due to the championship battle... so what if the same happens this next year?

 

They also said it would be sorted over the winter - which by the sound of things it isn't... Maybe LH has demanded to much? or are Mercedes worried about the engine regulations changes in 2016? Has NR got a smaller payout if Mercedes pull the plug?

[Buccaneer]

The danger is negotiations stopped this year due to the championship battle... so what if the same happens this next year?

 

They also said it would be sorted over the winter - which by the sound of things it isn't... Maybe LH has demanded to much? or are Mercedes worried about the engine regulations changes in 2016? Has NR got a smaller payout if Mercedes pull the plug?

 

The bolded is a good point.  May be Merc are delaying contract talks until the engine regs are finalised for 2016.  If Bernie and co get their way and F1 returns to the old engines, I can see Merc sticking two fingers up to F1 and walking away.  The last thing they would want is to pay out Lewis's expensive contract if this comes to pass.

[jjcale]

Wolff “#Hamilton renewal? We will discuss it during the year but I’m optimistic, #Alonso is the first alternative,then #Bottas”

 

We herd the same stuff throughout last year seems to me its a done deal he is leaving he may well have already singed as pre deal (based on honda performance) to replace button

 

My logic says - he is going to Ferrari to replace KR or whoever replaces KR in the short term (as they will be the only team other than Merc that can afford his salary demands without sacking someone and the only other team that he would be an economic asset to and not just a driver) ... and Bottas to Merc to replace him (as this is what Toto wants and Toto should not be underestimated). 

 

Cant give a timescale on this. Took is 3 years for my prediction that he was going to Merc to happen and an extra year for my prediction that FA was going to Macca to happen.... this one may take a couple of years to germinate as Merc loves LH and they have been connected for decades ... but dont underestimate the power Ferrari's money (and their desperation in a year or two's time when they find out that SV aint all that) and LH's ego (I can see him wanting to win with 3 different teams before he retires). 

 

But anyway, he aint going back to Macca.... sadly, too much has happened between him and Ron Dennis for that to work out in the sort of 1-3 year timescale that I am looking at. 

[jjcale]

Lewis is not going to leave Merc - and I also wouldn't be surprised if what Wolff actually said was lost in translation.

 

AFAIK, it's not the money that's the sticking point - it's some of the inflexibility in Mercs strategies and procedures that he finds frustrating, and ironically, unfair. Obviously he'll be lobbying for a bit of change on that front. 

 

Its not about LH leaving Merc ... its about Toto pushing him out slowly.... giving him his own strategist should not be a sticking point - unless you want it to be.

 

Ask yourself .... why is it taking this long to tie up some housekeeping points, if its really just some housekeeping points? 

[P123]

Well, they're all off on their holidays for one...

[showtime]

Isn't it a bit arrogant to talk about other team's drivers with ongoing contracts like he could get them anytime he likes? Even if it's true that Alonso and Bottas have contract clauses that enable them to go to Mercedes and they are willing to do it I don't think it's a nice gesture to brag about it to the press. I know it's just part of the negotiation for the renewal of LH but I think he could have sent the same message without giving any name. 

[noikeee]

This is a very odd thing to say, you never hear team principals directly say "yeah I'm considering a driver named XXX to possibly replace the driver I have under contract and has just won the championship for us".

 

My guess is he's trying to play mindgames with McLaren and Alonso already (trying to wear their relationship by enticing Alonso's will to move), whilst also trying to lower Hamilton's contract demands. It might turn out to be an absolutely correct sentence - it does make sense they'd try to hold on to Hamilton as 1st choice for stability and marketing, trying to sign Alonso as the best alternative and Bottas as the next best alternative. That all checks out. However, it strikes me very much as a sentence you'd never say in public without secondary motives...

[SpartanChas]

Why would Toto be trying to push Lewis out and how the hell could he ever talk his bosses around to thinking that replacing him with Bottas is the best way for the team to go?

[Newbrray]

I don't think he's trying to push Hamilton out although his comments are a bit silly.

 

I guess it all comes down to negotiation and him try to get some leverage. The problem is I think Toto might be decent businessman but when it comes to the role of defacto team principal, I think he still lacks a bit of experience and it sometimes shows. The same can be said of his management of the drivers, I guess he's trying to sort of console Nico most times and hence (bigs him up) but this usually comes across as him having a "I love Nico syndrome" which the public could view as "Nico loving". 

 

he might not necessarily being trying to push Ham out but just trying to leverage and get the upper hand in the negotiation. it shows a bit of inexperience.  Ross B, Horner or even Domenicalli won't come out with such statements. 

[femi]

Yeah this was the biggest surprise quote for me.. I assumed it was a collection of quotes from the entire year but if he's now saying they'll discuss a contract next year.. didn't they say the deal would be done quickly after the season ended?

Lewis was holding back. I think a lot of fans have embraced Lewis but not Mercedes and the perceived impression that Toto prefers Nico to Lewis isn't going to help that. If I were thinking about buying a Merc, Toto may just stop me from doing that.

[RustyRuss]

My logic says - he is going to Ferrari to replace KR or whoever replaces KR in the short term (as they will be the only team other than Merc that can afford his salary demands without sacking someone and the only other team that he would be an economic asset to and not just a driver) ... and Bottas to Merc to replace him (as this is what Toto wants and Toto should not be underestimated). 

 

Cant give a timescale on this. Took is 3 years for my prediction that he was going to Merc to happen and an extra year for my prediction that FA was going to Macca to happen.... this one may take a couple of years to germinate as Merc loves LH and they have been connected for decades ... but dont underestimate the power Ferrari's money (and their desperation in a year or two's time when they find out that SV aint all that) and LH's ego (I can see him wanting to win with 3 different teams before he retires). 

 

But anyway, he aint going back to Macca.... sadly, too much has happened between him and Ron Dennis for that to work out in the sort of 1-3 year timescale that I am looking at. 

 

Do you think Ross Brawn is really done? RB & LH at Ferrari! 

[f1RacingForever]

The way is see it, neither Hamilton or Merc will be in a rush to nenew this early. It makes sense for Hamilton to see where the team is at going forward and for Merc to keep their eye on what other drivers are doing. This probably won't be settled until the middle of the season.

[DanardiF1]

 

From La Gazzetta.

 

 

 

Some interesting stuff, mid-January test?, is that a filming day?.

 

 

Yeah, they did the same beginning of last season running the car at Silverstone before Jerez.