290 replies to this topic

[Leprechau]

???  In Q3 Mark did two runs, -  1:13.91 and the pole which was 1:13.826.

 

No one else (not even Kubica) looked like going under 1:14!

 

Why do you think second best (.3 sec slower) is better than the best?

 

Your "reasoning" seems to fly in the face of logic.

 

I, particularly, like your "reasoning" and "logic" when you don't take into account how Renault was inferior to several other cars, nevermind Red Bull

Edited by Leprechau, 09 March 2015 - 20:04.

[Atreiu]

Nah, Monaco 2010 was great. All in all, both Webber and Kubica were on par with their efforts and got the most of their cars. Hamilton wasn't shabby either, that must have been the circuit least suited for the MP4-25.

 

We all know who really should have been on pole that day.

 

2010 was a good year for banzai qualifying laps, the tyres could take all sorts of beatings and still be fine for the race.

Edited by Atreiu, 09 March 2015 - 20:18.

[joaoheitor]

Hamilton in Canada 2008. He was 0.612s faster than any other driver that day.

 

I remember that the track was very dirt and damaged in turn 10 — the place where he found almost all his advantage over Kubica (who was terrific too) and Ferraris.

 

 

http://mais.uol.com....0307?types=A

Edited by joaoheitor, 10 March 2015 - 13:39.

[Rhardrks]

I'd be surprised if the 1993 Renault engine was that much more powerful than the Ford V8 or Ferrari V12!

 

The Renault RS5 engine had the biggest engine advantage over the field in modern times. 80bhp was conservative number. Ron Dennis kept repeating it was 100bhp over the Ford they had.

Compunded by the fact Honda pulled out and McLaren had a substandard workd Ford engine.

The Ferrari engine was a complete lemon in 1993, the1994 engine was a massive improvement.
 

[Rasputin]

...

The Ferrari engine was a complete lemon in 1993, the1994 engine was a massive improvement.
 

With the dear help from Honda's Osamu Goto.

[Kyo]

Senna has so many "perfect" qualy laps that is hard to choose one.

 

Just so people have a grasp of how good Senna was in qualy I gathered some stats.

 

Senna was only once beaten by a teammate for 1+ seconds. Austrian GP 1985 against Elio.

 

On the other hand lets see how many times Senna beat his teammates by 1+ seconds.

 - Cecotto 6x / 8 races

 - Johansson 1x / 1 race

 - de Angelis 10x / 16 races

 - Dumfries 15x / 15 races

 - Nakajima 15x / 16 races

 - Prost 11x / 32 races

 - Berger 11x / 48 races

 - Andretti 9x / 13 races

 - Hakkinen 0x / 3 races

 - Hill 1x / 3 races

Total 79x / 155 races

 

Anyway the one I like most to watch is Adelaide 1985. The car is so loose, it looks like he is gonna lose control at anytime but he doesn't and manages to complete one of the most incredible laps ever. Magic lap.

[krobinson]

 

Imho, also not a great pole considering he had quite less fuel than Schumacher and was slower than the German, fuel corrected. I wish there was no Q1/Q2/Q3 BS on that session as MSC's Q2 lap was epic(until now, the fastest lap ever in Suzuka, and by 0,6s over the next).
 

 

Massa had a slow puncture and due to that he had to pit 3 laps earlier than planned. So fuel corrected, they were equally fast with MS.

 

There is no need to hype the lap MS did in Q2, because Massa was clearly taking it easy (for proof look at how much faster Massa was in Q3 compared to Q2, despite having far more fuel onboard than in Q2).

 

[jjcale]

I was considering starting a new thread but it's probably better to resurrect this old one. 

 

I've been surprised that folks on here have not given more recognition to LH's pole lap at Monza last race weekend... This pole had all the elements to be remembered for years to come  .

 

1. Technical skill. The driving was amazingly smooth considering the state of the track - and the speed and commitment that was on display - and in the Merc's lowest downforce package.

 

 

and 

 

http://www.skysports.com/ watch/video/sports/f1/11018792/hamilton8217s-69th-pole-position

 

2. Drama/Occasion. The lap came at the very end of a very long delayed quali session and the last gasp drama of snatching pole at the death would have been memorable on its own... but it was also LH's 69th pole putting him atop the all time list which instantly makes this pole a special one ... and it was at Monza, home of Ferrari (who happen to Merc's great rivals this season and the team with whom Schumacher is most closely associated). Thus striking a double blow.

 

3. Dominance. The gap to the rest of the field was remarkable, even given the wet conditions. It was on a full wet track on which it was continuing to rain lightly so it was not a kind of "last one over the line wins" situation. That was just a triumph of man and machine over the rest. 

 

For me this lap is a contender for greatest/most memorable pole lap ever  because of the combination of factors above ... and I am sure it will be remembered and talked about a long time from now.  I also expect that over time it will be remembered in a similar way way as Monaco 88. 

Edited by jjcale, 11 September 2017 - 22:20.

[chunder27]

Rosberg 1985 Silverstone

 

end of discussion

[JonnyJ]

I was considering starting a new thread but it's probably better to resurrect this old one. 

 

I've been surprised that folks on here have not given more recognition to LH's pole lap at Monza last race weekend... This pole had all the elements to be remembered for years to come  .

 

1. Technical skill. The driving was amazingly smooth considering the state of the track - and the speed and commitment that was on display - and in the Merc's lowest downforce package.

 

 

and 

 

http://www.skysports.com/ watch/video/sports/f1/11018792/hamilton8217s-69th-pole-position

 

2. Drama/Occasion. The lap came at the very end of a very long delayed quali session and the last gasp drama of snatching pole at the death would have been memorable on its own... but it was also LH's 69th pole putting him atop the all time list which instantly makes this pole a special one ... and it was at Monza, home of Ferrari (who happen to Merc's great rivals this season and the team with whom Schumacher is most closely associated). Thus striking a double blow.

 

3. Dominance. The gap to the rest of the field was remarkable, even given the wet conditions. It was on a full wet track on which it was continuing to rain lightly so it was not a kind of "last one over the line wins" situation. That was just a triumph of man and machine over the rest. 

 

For me this lap is a contender for greatest/most memorable pole lap ever  because of the combination of factors above ... and I am sure it will be remembered and talked about a long time from now.  I also expect that over time it will be remembered in a similar way way as Monaco 88. 

 

Yeah, it was absolutely superb. I cant see any obvious errors, a slight twitch coming out of parabolica and thats it. Would love to see it alongside one of the RB boys just to see where and how he built that gap and if there was anywhere they were actually faster than him. Worth pointing out as well that to make that lap happen, he had to nail it on the outlap to get the temps up. VB didnt manage it and couldnt get a lap on the new tyres. Supreme confidence and ability. Sometimes you watch F1 and think "yeah i reckon i could do that" but then sometimes you just watch it with your jaw open and think "Blimey, they're bloody good"

[geralt]

I was considering starting a new thread but it's probably better to resurrect this old one. 

 

I've been surprised that folks on here have not given more recognition to LH's pole lap at Monza last race weekend... This pole had all the elements to be remembered for years to come  .

 

I feel like it's because everyone's become so accustomed to such masterful performances from Hamilton that it isn't even a big deal anymore when he does it again. Like seriously, this year alone he's done 4/5 qualifying laps that have been ridiculously good, it's become the norm almost.

[CountDooku]

Yeah, it was absolutely superb. I cant see any obvious errors, a slight twitch coming out of parabolica and thats it. Would love to see it alongside one of the RB boys just to see where and how he built that gap and if there was anywhere they were actually faster than him. Worth pointing out as well that to make that lap happen, he had to nail it on the outlap to get the temps up. VB didnt manage it and couldnt get a lap on the new tyres. Supreme confidence and ability. Sometimes you watch F1 and think "yeah i reckon i could do that" but then sometimes you just watch it with your jaw open and think "Blimey, they're bloody good"

That's actually an amazing lap. I don't think I've ever seen a wet lap like that before with almost no corrections. Especially as it's Monza with big braking points and slow corners (less downforce).
He nails every apex and has sooooo much grip. Glad I watched that again.

[Zmeej]

Bump

 

A great “off-season” thread.

[Bikr7549]

Mario's pole at Monza in 1982 is definitely tops for me, in any race series. After having been out of F1 for about a year he stepped in when called by Ferrari in what had been a very hard season for them. Not only did he put his car on pole, but had earlier set a new a lap record at Fiorano. Turbo failure in the race resulted in 'only' a third place at race end, but to me (and probably every other fan) that mattered only slightly to me. A true hero!

 

Also, he qualified on pole for his first ever grand prix, 1968 USGP in a Lotus 49, a feat that how many others achieved?

[Zmeej]

Ah yes, Signor Andretti. 

Edited by Zmeej, 02 December 2023 - 06:21.

[F1Frog]

It wasn’t a pole position. In fact it didn’t count for anything as Mick Schumacher crashed and brought out the red flag halfway through so it wasn’t even a complete lap. But I remember watching the first half of George Russell’s final lap in Q1 at Paul Ricard 2021 on the live TV feed and it standing out as just absolute perfection. It was clear that the Williams wasn’t actually just better than we thought, as I suspect is the case with Albon, Russell just really was doing heroic things in an uncompetitive car. Belgium 2021 was similar and obviously was rewarded.

Other laps since this thread that stand out are Hamilton in Styria 2020 and Spa 2020, Verstappen in Jeddah 2021 until the crash, Norris in Imola and Austria 2021, Leclerc in Portugal and Sakhir 2020. I wonder if it is harder to do a lap that is visibly brilliant in the new generation of cars than pre-2022.

Edited by F1Frog, 02 December 2023 - 12:00.

[DW46]

Ralf Schumacher Monaco 2003 I enjoyed.

Nico Rosberg in Singapore 16.

Hamilton in Singapore 18.

Verstappen in Monaco 23.

And the best of all . . .

Schumacher in Malaysia 99.

[ConsiderAndGo]

Not pole, but Leclerc’s second place at Austria this year was bonkers.

Vettel 2015 Singapore was also something.

[Risil]

Michael Schumacher at Monaco in 1996 sticks in my head. Probably for the sense of "ah, order is restored". It didn't last!

[HerbieMcQueen]

I'm sure it's been mentioned somewhere in the previous 6 pages, but I'd like to offer up Verstappen's almost-but-not-quite pole position in Saudi Arabia two years ago. Had it been completed just a few yards further down the road, it would've been a lap wheeled out for the next couple of decades a là Senna/Monaco.

[ConsiderAndGo]

Raikkonen at Monaco 2005.

Alonso battered the field by half second or so and everyone thought that was that… Renault were celebrating the fact. Then Raikkonen pops out and beats him by 4 tenths or so. The look on Briatore’s face was perfect.

Edited by ConsiderAndGo, 02 December 2023 - 13:50.

[Rediscoveryx]

It wasn’t a pole position. In fact it didn’t count for anything as Mick Schumacher crashed and brought out the red flag halfway through so it wasn’t even a complete lap. But I remember watching the first half of George Russell’s final lap in Q1 at Paul Ricard 2021 on the live TV feed and it standing out as just absolute perfection. It was clear that the Williams wasn’t actually just better than we thought, as I suspect is the case with Albon, Russell just really was doing heroic things in an uncompetitive car. Belgium 2021 was similar and obviously was rewarded.

Other laps since this thread that stand out are Hamilton in Styria 2020 and Spa 2020, Verstappen in Jeddah 2021 until the crash, Norris in Imola and Austria 2021, Leclerc in Portugal and Sakhir 2020. I wonder if it is harder to do a lap that is visibly brilliant in the new generation of cars than pre-2022.

Russell at Spa in ’01 was also mindblowingly good.

[Anderis]

Hulkenberg's 2010 Brazil wins by a mile for me among those I have witnessed.

 

Rosberg's 2016 Singapore is probably the next one that comes to my mind, although I may have forgotten about others.

[alexsab]

It wasn’t a pole position. In fact it didn’t count for anything as Mick Schumacher crashed and brought out the red flag halfway through so it wasn’t even a complete lap. But I remember watching the first half of George Russell’s final lap in Q1 at Paul Ricard 2021 on the live TV feed and it standing out as just absolute perfection. It was clear that the Williams wasn’t actually just better than we thought, as I suspect is the case with Albon, Russell just really was doing heroic things in an uncompetitive car. Belgium 2021 was similar and obviously was rewarded.

Other laps since this thread that stand out are Hamilton in Styria 2020 and Spa 2020, Verstappen in Jeddah 2021 until the crash, Norris in Imola and Austria 2021, Leclerc in Portugal and Sakhir 2020. I wonder if it is harder to do a lap that is visibly brilliant in the new generation of cars than pre-2022.

 

Good calls. Also, Leclerc's final Q3 lap in Monaco 2022 was looking special - even if he was only just over halfway through it when Perez crashed and brought out the red flag. He was sitting 0.2s ahead of the field after the first runs, and on his second run was already 0.3s up on that by the tunnel. It was a fantastic (half-)lap to watch, total mastery of the car and the circuit. He was actually disappointed by the red flag, even though it confirmed his pole based on his Q3 run 1 lap, because he knew he was on one of the best laps of his career and wanted to finish it.

 

Verstappen's pole lap at Suzuka this year was utterly sublime.

Edited by alexsab, 02 December 2023 - 17:25.

[D28]

Mario's pole at Monza in 1982 is definitely tops for me, in any race series. After having been out of F1 for about a year he stepped in when called by Ferrari in what had been a very hard season for them. Not only did he put his car on pole, but had earlier set a new a lap record at Fiorano. Turbo failure in the race resulted in 'only' a third place at race end, but to me (and probably every other fan) that mattered only slightly to me. A true hero!

 

Also, he qualified on pole for his first ever grand prix, 1968 USGP in a Lotus 49, a feat that how many others achieved?

Only a handful, about 4, but I would have to look it up. Reutemann Argentina 1972 and J Villeneuve Australia 1996.I saw Mario at the Glem, most dramatic. . 

Edited by D28, 02 December 2023 - 15:16.

[Collombin]

I saw Mario at the Glem, most dramatic. .

He said it was his very first time there, but that some were dismissive of his achievement because they thought it was basically his home track.

[Risil]

I'm sure it's been mentioned somewhere in the previous 6 pages, but I'd like to offer up Verstappen's almost-but-not-quite pole position in Saudi Arabia two years ago. Had it been completed just a few yards further down the road, it would've been a lap wheeled out for the next couple of decades a là Senna/Monaco.

I'd like to nominate Michael Schumacher's Monaco 1996 for the "Greatest first laps in a Grand Prix" thread

[HerbieMcQueen]

I'd like to nominate Michael Schumacher's Monaco 1996 for the "Greatest first laps in a Grand Prix" thread

 

Hey, I'm not the only one to nominate an incomplete lap!

 

But since you brought the topic up I'll also nominate Michael, also at Monaco, one year later.

[DW46]

Verstappen's pole lap at Suzuka this year was utterly sublime.

It was sublime.

[Beri]

Russell at Spa in ’01 was also mindblowingly good.

 

He was barely 3 years old back then 

[Dara]

Hakkinen in Imola 1999

[Rediscoveryx]

He was barely 3 years old back then

Yes, I factored that into the equation. He was alright in 21 also. 😎

Edited by Rediscoveryx, 02 December 2023 - 21:48.

[Sterzo]

A personal favourite: Ronnie Peterson, British Grand Prix, Brands Hatch 1978. The best time in practice counted - no separate "qualifying" session. But clearly the last hour or so was what counted.

 

Ronnie was hugely popular, having an exuberant, spectacular style. The commentator asked him about a big moment he'd had at Druids, but he didn't know he'd had one. The rubber lines told a different story... He went out later and didn't look turned on, then one lap he came flying past and my wind-up stopwatch placed him a big margin ahead of everyone. I was out in the country, not at the start line, so waited for confirmation and sure enough, Ronnie was on pole. The gap to Andretti was 0.26 sec.

[athlon]

Jenson Button Imola 2004 / 1:19.753 what a fantastic lap it was

[Henri Greuter]

A personal favourite: Ronnie Peterson, British Grand Prix, Brands Hatch 1978. The best time in practice counted - no separate "qualifying" session. But clearly the last hour or so was what counted.

 

Ronnie was hugely popular, having an exuberant, spectacular style. The commentator asked him about a big moment he'd had at Druids, but he didn't know he'd had one. The rubber lines told a different story... He went out later and didn't look turned on, then one lap he came flying past and my wind-up stopwatch placed him a big margin ahead of everyone. I was out in the country, not at the start line, so waited for confirmation and sure enough, Ronnie was on pole. The gap to Andretti was 0.26 sec.

 

 

And that was with nowhere near the amount of qualifying tires for Ronnie as Mario was given by Chapman.

[TheBigTicket123]

i know its not a pole position, but Alonso at Spain in 2017 was a special lap

[Henri Greuter]

if `great` laps yet no Pole are also valid for thsi thread then I think Roberto Moreno in the Andrea Moda at Monaco 1992 tops the list.

[Ruusperi]

Can't remember. It would help if F1TV had full qualifying sessions before 2018. If I was their employee, I would work for free 24/7 to upload every session to their archive asap.

[eibyyz]

Indy, I'm fond of Teo Fabi in 1983. 

[LittleChris]

And that was with nowhere near the amount of qualifying tires for Ronnie as Mario was given by Chapman.

 

 

From memory I think Ronnie had to qualify on race tyres as Chunky wouldn't let him have qualifiers.   

[Henri Greuter]

From memory I think Ronnie had to qualify on race tyres as Chunky wouldn't let him have qualifiers.   

It gets better and an even more impressive performance

 

First, your memory is correct.

secondly: During the Friday afternoon practice he had an oill tank bursting in his 79 and was forced to continue with his backup car: a type 78.

 

 

(Source  Heinz Pruller:  Grand Prix Story 78,  Dutch translation, page 109)