56 replies to this topic

[black magic]

 Given the inherent conflicts on the various groups or bodies in control of the sport i can't really see any other scenario whereby f1 gets its colletive act together and restructures with the radical changes required.

 

CVC will not relenquish their teat on the cash cow that the sport remains today with its farcical payout system. teams are incapable of working together. FIA is under the cosh and as evidenced by the engine changes is incapable of really ever regaining control of a sport that was sold from under itself by its previous immoral head.

 

seriously other than the sport withering down to 3 teams, CVC being forced out odf the sport or convincing dumb shmoes to actually buy the shares of a dead float, bernie dying, tv collpasing, fans abandoning the sport or continuing to do so - is there any evidence that those runing the show are capable of sorting out what is a mess.

[Ross Stonefeld]

The headline is probably a little dramatic, but I think in general terms no.

 

But how often does a major racing series properly anticipate and plan for problems? They don't even have to be crystal ball gazers, just basic stuff. "Oh ****, we're going to lose a ton of funding with the tobacco ban, we need to reconsider our marketing". Or "the manufacturers won't stay around forever, we need to make it more affordable for teams". Everyone reacts when they get to just short of the point of no return. And by that point it's very easy to lose a lot of your fanbase.

 

With the drop in on-site attendance and the lack of good sponsorship, in some ways we're already there.

[ardbeg]

For quite some time now I have cared less about F1 for every season. Reason I'm still hanging on is because I liked it a lot once. If it would go no, I would not cry. I can not respect a sport that is so openly driven by cynicism and greed. Actually, I would be happy if it died, then the better racing series would get more focus.

[Murl]

They can only move forward once the tumor is removed. Odds of that happening while the host lives on?

[Kenstate]

I don't think so either. My feeling is that it needs to collapse in such a spectacular way that all that there will be nothing leftover for the politics to fight over, and specifically the costs, can come down. much like it happened with WEC

Edited by Kenstate, 08 January 2015 - 07:29.

[kraduk]

I don't think so either. My feeling is that it needs to collapse in such a spectacular way that all that there will be nothing leftover for the politics to fight over, and specifically the costs, can come down. much like it happened with WEC

i agree thing will only get significantly better until the house is cleared, and for that to happen its going to involve a lot of pain.

[CoolBreeze]

F1 is already dead. 

[ardbeg]

F1 is already dead. 

No, it only smells funny

[pdac]

No

[Jackmancer]

All these politics are part of F1, Bernie has grown from hero to villian, which only adds to the story. 

 

Yes.

[KWSN - DSM]

F1 is not dead, F1 will not die.

 

The current iteration of F1 is a dire mess, the various franchised and disenfranchised parties are doing a marvelously poor job at taking care of the series, more teams will fold or at least be sold as shells of their former selves. Many if not most of what is wrong can be seen by all, including the franchised parties, but the setup, voting, influence and impact as set now preclude them from doing anything in fear of losing their competitive and fiscal edge.

 

CVC is not raking billions, they are raking billions to pay of the massive loans they took out against F1 when they bought in, a debt they need to settle before they can get up and walk away.

 

F1 is the premier series The FIA has, if there are not enought teams or cars they decide how the championship are to be settled instead, since they have made most series spec, current best option would be F3.

 

No death for F1.

 

[Dick Dastardly]

 

seriously other than the sport withering down to 3 teams, CVC being forced out odf the sport or convincing dumb shmoes to actually buy the shares of a dead float, bernie dying, tv collpasing, fans abandoning the sport or continuing to do so - is there any evidence that those runing the show are capable of sorting out what is a mess.

 

 The only certain thing in that list is Bernie dying. I don't know for how long BBC will continue showing races, albeit around 50% of them as highlights, but when that stops and its     only on SKY, then UK TV figures will drop....I don't know anyone who has SKY or wants it just for F1. I can see 1 or even 2 teams [Sauber, particularly] not continuing after this     season.  

[V8 Fireworks]

 

:/ The good 'ol days.

 

 

...The good ol' days

 

 

Likewise?  So many works teams!!!

Edited by V8 Fireworks, 08 January 2015 - 11:33.

[OO7]

I'm wondering, is Surfers Paradise really a paradise for surfers?

[SonJR]

I don't think F1 will die. But, I don't see many permanent solutions being put forth under the current organizational system.

The only way for sweeping changes, is a strong FIA. I'm not a big fan of the good old Federation, but the even more so self-interested teams and FOM will never get that done.

[F1matt]

It is hard to see how the sport can ever be unified with so many stakeholders wanting their own way. Either way it is going to be ugly.

[uffen]

I am to the point where I think the FIA should end the series. End it as it exists and then immediately establish a new F1. They can re-write how the sport is governed and how the finances are handled. A pure trick of the light.

[Rob]

I am to the point where I think the FIA should end the series. End it as it exists and then immediately establish a new F1. They can re-write how the sport is governed and how the finances are handled. A pure trick of the light.

 

They'd probably get sued big-time by CVC.

[KWSN - DSM]

They'd probably get sued big-time by CVC.

 

Just create a new series, written to relatively sensible rules, have Ferrari, Mercedes, Renault and Honda commit to an atmospheric engine size they want to produce, call it Super Formula Grand Eupreuve series, maintain F1 and insist that Mercedes, Ferrari, Renault and Honda continue their current contractual commitment, then let it falter to the detriment of CVC who only have a series as long as it exist within set parameters. Once dead run F1 to Super Formula Grand Eupreuve rules and regulations.

 

[nosecone]

No, there is no way to save F1 without first dying.

 

Just create a new series, written to relatively sensible rules, have Ferrari, Mercedes, Renault and Honda commit to an atmospheric engine size they want to produce, call it Super Formula Grand Eupreuve series, maintain F1 and insist that Mercedes, Ferrari, Renault and Honda continue their current contractual commitment, then let it falter to the detriment of CVC who only have a series as long as it exist within set parameters. Once dead run F1 to Super Formula Grand Eupreuve rules and regulations.

 

 

If i look at how much prize money those bolted teams got last year... no, they won't. Those are the ones who benefit from what goes wrong in F1 currently

[KWSN - DSM]

No, there is no way to save F1 without first dying.

 

 

If i look at how much prize money those bolted teams got last year... no, they won't. Those are the ones who benefit from what goes wrong in F1 currently

 

What if they throw a party, and no one came?

 

[nosecone]

What if they throw a party, and no one came?

 

 

that's the prospect for F1.

 

What i meant is that they won't voluntarily compete in a new series

[MP422]

Nothing wrong with F1. 

[Jimisgod]

I'm wondering, is Surfers Paradise really a paradise for surfers?

It has good breaks.

Also 2004/5 as the "golden years" of WRC and F1 is a little optimistic. Best years of WRC were probably 1992-2002 (ignoring group B)

In my opinion Bernie needs to, uh, die before the sport can go anywhere. He's too old, too crazy and too spiteful to fix anything. First, more money for small teams.

[Red17]

No, it only smells funny

 

Then no reason to worry, funny is still 2 levels above rotten.

[totgate]

Nope-- :-)

[FullWets]

No, F1 cannot be saved without first (Bernie) dying

[Nathan]

When Bernie goes how F1 operates will change.  I don't think F1 is dying. 

 

When Ferrari is the only manufacture left, and race count drops to a dozen, when the series looks like CART did, then things are bad.  But come on, 500 million people watch F1 - there is probably a market for 25 races.   How is that something near death? How much pain is down to the economic climate? The claim is drama IMO.

Edited by Nathan, 10 January 2015 - 07:07.

[Spaceframe]

When Bernie goes how F1 operates will change.  I don't think F1 is dying.

 

When Ferrari is the only manufacture left, and race count drops to a dozen, when the series looks like CART did, then things are bad.  But come on, 500 million people watch F1 - there is probably a market for 25 races.   How is that something near death? How much pain is down to the economic climate? The claim is drama IMO.

If F1 really reach 500 million viewers, how come still fewer companies producing consumer goods want to be connected to it?

 

In my opinion any serious company will keep F1 at arms length - no serious company would want to be connected with a business venture of F1's kind. Consumers have been known to boycot products when the manufacturer is seen to work hand in hand with dictators and financial parasites praying on those attempting to run a decent business.

 

Anyway, I've cancelled my subscription to the TV networks broadcasting F1. I'm not paying the profits of CVC.

[AustinF1]

When Bernie goes how F1 operates will change.

...maybe for the better, but more likely for the worse, imho. Bernie is the only remaining buffer between 'old school' F1 and an F1 that is wholly run by corporate suits from CVC. What makes anyone think things will get better when those guys take full control of the wheel?

Edited by AustinF1, 14 January 2015 - 21:43.

[Darren1]

F1 is just like the human race.  It's own greed will destroy it, and even when it's dying, it will be wanting more for itself

[Cyanide]

*checks team websites, all teams bar Caterham and Marussia are good to compete in 2015 and are preparing for the new season, all circuits ready to host races*

 

I think words "dead" or "dying" are used by people who like to over-dramatize things. A sport of this caliber does not simply die overnight. 

[Nathan]

"If F1 really reach 500 million viewers, how come still fewer companies producing consumer goods want to be connected to it?"

 

Are there actually fewer? We have had a steady stream of new consumer sponsors (Martini, Unilever, Coca Cola, Red Bull, Blackberry), have plenty of gas stations, clothing, banks and telco's represented.  F1 has seen long term sponsors such as SAP and Petronas increase their investments.  Bar SAP every company I've listed sells consumer goods.

 

I think compared to football (soccer) F1 teams collect an impressive amount on the sponsorship front.  A mid-field F1 team can collect as much sponsorship dollars as a top football club!  Man U doesn't pull sponsorship money like Ferrari.

 

What kind of companies buy commercial ads during F1 races from the broadcasters?  Companies pay the broadcasters a number multiple times greater than what teams and FOM collect from sponsorship.  TV companies need to recoup that billion$+ every year they pay FOM, plus cover their expenses and make a profit.  Don't forget to look at that as well.

Edited by Nathan, 15 January 2015 - 13:55.

[Spaceframe]

"If F1 really reach 500 million viewers, how come still fewer companies producing consumer goods want to be connected to it?"

 

Are there actually fewer? We have had a steady stream of new consumer sponsors (Martini, Unilever, Coca Cola, Red Bull, Blackberry), have plenty of gas stations, clothing, banks and telco's represented.  F1 has seen long term sponsors such as SAP and Petronas increase their investments.  Bar SAP every company I've listed sells consumer goods.

 

I think compared to football (soccer) F1 teams collect an impressive amount on the sponsorship front.  A mid-field F1 team can collect as much sponsorship dollars as a top football club!  Man U doesn't pull sponsorship money like Ferrari.

 

What kind of companies buy commercial ads during F1 races from the broadcasters?  Companies pay the broadcasters a number multiple times greater than what teams and FOM collect from sponsorship.  TV companies need to recoup that billion$+ every year they pay FOM, plus cover their expenses and make a profit.  Don't forget to look at that as well.

My eyes might have failed me, but it looked like quite a few of the 2014 cars carried little or no sponsorship. I never spotted actual sponsors on the Caterhams, Marrusias or Saubers, and Williams, McLaren and Force India appeared to have no adverts on large parts of their bodywork. I can't recall how the Renault or Lotus or whatever it is called these days looked, possibly because the distinctive nose section got my attention instead.

 

Toro Rosso didn't seem to have many secondary sponsors, and only Ferrari, Red Bull and Mercedes had decals in abundance,,,,

 

But of course sponsors expect to get more airtime from commercial TV adverts than hard-to-spot decals on the cars. Sometimes I wonder, thuogh, whether those companies have realized that TV viewers have a remote control at their disposal and hence can always zap somewhere else during the commercial breaks. Quite a waste of money, me thinks....

[SenorSjon]

When Bernie goes how F1 operates will change.  I don't think F1 is dying. 

 

When Ferrari is the only manufacture left, and race count drops to a dozen, when the series looks like CART did, then things are bad.  But come on, 500 million people watch F1 - there is probably a market for 25 races.   How is that something near death? How much pain is down to the economic climate? The claim is drama IMO.

 

That 500m consists of about 15 minutes a season of intermittent watching. If you watch the news regularly and see a few F1-items during the year, you qualify as a viewer. Hell, you could say if you see the adverts for the upcoming race a few times on your TV channel, you qualify as viewer.

 

When you have 25 races, the brand gets diluded to 1/25. Promoters are less willing to pay for 4% of the season. And viewers are less inclined to watch every race since a race has less importance for the championship. 

 

 

F1 is rotten to the core and first has to die. All the shareholders look at each other, but the tight money grip is preventing progress. Where are all those tree-hugging, green loving viewers that were bound to watch F1 by the thousands to see the new Prius-F1 in action? 

[Speedscenes]

Senor - they're probably watching the E-series. 

 

Whilst there is certainly less advertisement on the cars then there used to be, I have noticed more and more hoardings etc at the circuits. 

F1 doesn't need to die to re-evolve, it just needs a couple of years to bed these engines in and then it can go back to being a manufacturer's series.

 

And don't forget we have young and exciting personalities to drive the sport forward, like Kyvat .... oh wait     

[Elba]

F1 is rotten to the core and first has to die. All the shareholders look at each other, but the tight money grip is preventing progress. Where are all those tree-hugging, green loving viewers that were bound to watch F1 by the thousands to see the new Prius-F1 in action? 

People have been harping about that for years and it never happened any imo will never happen. Too many vested interests, too much money involved and still very very popular.

Sure the sport needs adjustments but those will be merely tweaks to cater for the public and hopefully financial adjustments to keep a healthy grid.

 

Personally I don't get this wish from so called F1 fans for the sport to die or destroy itself. 

Fans who don't like the cars, the personalities, those who make a lot of money from the sport, the regulations or the pay TV channel it airs on, all wishing the sport to die.

How weird???? You don't like the sport or it's inner mechanics then just take a hike and go watch something else that does entertain you.

It's a pastime and entertainment no more no less for the fans, why bother with the aggravation??

Plenty of other interesting (motor)sports to follow surely.

 

I've followed the sport for some decades now and sometimes with less enthusiasm for various reasons, it is what it is deal with it because whining online sure as hell won't change anything imo.

[ChrisF1MyLife]

short answer to OP.

 

No, F1 (as a pinnace racing series) can't be saved as such by continually trying to put a band aid on what doesn't work, it always benefits some more than others, or is designed that way in the first instance.

 

Every new rule yields more problems, more loop holes, more interpretations, so a new rule is made, eventually, which then yields the same issues, all the while people still earn points with, illegal, but not illegal bits and bobs.

 

The only solution is a ground up redesign, reworking of shared winnings, multi or no team involvement in developing regs, then rather than lock in engines and rules, if someone is clearly ways behind on development, they should be allowed to com up to spec, to make better racing, rather tenth big boys always pulling away.

 

just my 2 cents, they're flogging a dead horse now, and the money guys are squeezing every last cent form it. sad.  

[oetzi]

If F1 really reach 500 million viewers, how come still fewer companies producing consumer goods want to be connected to it?

Because competition. Measurements and metrics. Maybe because the environment, bicycles, women*. And stuff.

 

Not everyone likes F1. Not everyone who likes F1 is influenced by F1 sponsorship.

 

The numbers may sound like fantasy, but if you've deduced via the interwebs that they may be iffy you can bet the buyers have factored this in.

 

Excepting the influence of hospitality, of course. But that goes back to the measurement bit.

 

* I am not for one second suggesting that no woman, cyclist or environmentalist likes F1, or being sexist or discriminatory in any way, just that putting stickers on fast, shiny, noisy cars may not be the best way to appeal to every audience.

[oetzi]

My eyes might have failed me, but it looked like quite a few of the 2014 cars carried little or no sponsorship. I never spotted actual sponsors on the Caterhams, Marrusias or Saubers, and Williams, McLaren and Force India appeared to have no adverts on large parts of their bodywork. 

They get so much more now from Bernie's TV money that sponsorship is a lower priority.

 

And the series is less appealing to sponsors.

 

And very few 'actual race teams' have to raise a budget, backing comes (real or imagined) from somewhere - the fallout isn't on the team principal/members like it once might have been.

 

And there's been a big recession.

 

And all of those teams had had difficult histories/seasons/were in transition.

 

And Williams got Martini, and Force India can't really be said to be without title sponsors (bankrupt or not), Marussia and Caterham are both (small, brokeish) car companies, and McLaren is now also a smallish, brokeish car company with tech stuff going on.

 

So that's two teams with main sponsors and three (smallish) car manufacturers from your list of 6 teams without backing. And Sauber had the backing of the world's richest man.

 

It's tough, but a long way from impossible.

[SenorSjon]

People have been harping about that for years and it never happened any imo will never happen. Too many vested interests, too much money involved and still very very popular.

Sure the sport needs adjustments but those will be merely tweaks to cater for the public and hopefully financial adjustments to keep a healthy grid.

 

Personally I don't get this wish from so called F1 fans for the sport to die or destroy itself. 

Fans who don't like the cars, the personalities, those who make a lot of money from the sport, the regulations or the pay TV channel it airs on, all wishing the sport to die.

How weird???? You don't like the sport or it's inner mechanics then just take a hike and go watch something else that does entertain you.

It's a pastime and entertainment no more no less for the fans, why bother with the aggravation??

Plenty of other interesting (motor)sports to follow surely.

 

I've followed the sport for some decades now and sometimes with less enthusiasm for various reasons, it is what it is deal with it because whining online sure as hell won't change anything imo.

 

It is on life support from shady countries characters investing millions in tracks for a few races. They get leeched by Bernie for 50m/year, just like the TV companies. RTL Deutschland is heard of paying 50m for the 2015 due to the contract, but they most likely bin F1 or go for a sharply reduced fee in 2016 and beyond. If all those TV contracts run out, F1 could be taking a big financial hit.

[MrPodium]

F1 only needs to be saved from idiots who think it's dying and contiually talk the great sport down. Countries are queing up to pay tens of millions of pounds to host a grand prix event each year, you see royalty, film stars, pop stars attending each race which is watched by hundreds of millions of people across the globe. And it's dying? please, get real people, F1 is far from dying, other sports would love to be in a similar position, of that I'm sure!

 

Yes, there are issue facing F1, the distribution of prize money being something which really needs redressing being of paramount importance. But F1 isn't broken, far from it.

Edited by MrPodium, 23 January 2015 - 11:19.

[Jejking]

F1 only needs to be saved from idiots who think it's dying and contiually talk the great sport down. Countries are queing up to pay tens of millions of pounds to host a grand prix event each year, you see royalty, film stars, pop stars attending each race which is watched by hundreds of millions of people across the globe. And it's dying? please, get real people, F1 is far from dying, other sports would love to be in a similar position, of that I'm sure!

 

Yes, there are issue facing F1, the distribution of prize money being something which really needs redressing being of paramount importance. But F1 isn't broken, far from it.

Thinking that a sport is in a great position when it's falling from its grace, is austrich politics. The numbers are proving audiences are moving away from the sport since a couple of years, while it's still doing good it's almost nowhere compared to the best years. Stability is key. FIA/FOM already proved it isn't capable of maintaining that.

[oetzi]

Stability is key. FIA/FOM already proved it isn't capable of maintaining that.

They respectively invented the sport and monetised it, and between them have run F1 'for ever' - isn't that enough stability for you?

[Elba]

It is on life support from shady countries characters investing millions in tracks for a few races. They get leeched by Bernie for 50m/year, just like the TV companies. RTL Deutschland is heard of paying 50m for the 2015 due to the contract, but they most likely bin F1 or go for a sharply reduced fee in 2016 and beyond. If all those TV contracts run out, F1 could be taking a big financial hit.

No surprise there just a lot of supposition and what ifs......  

 

Shady countries??? Which ones, Russia, China, Bahrain, the Emirates??? All countries that governments and blue chip companies deal with on a daily basis, why not F1? People have been moaning about the supposedly one day fly that the Bahrain GP would be but we've had 10 GPs already so what's your point?

 

F1 is not on life support from anyone and is far from dying. If 1 GP folds there's a long list of other countries waiting to host one, so again what's your point?

 

The sport is a big (financial) supertanker with many vested interests, surely its course needs to be adjusted slightly from time to time and it usually does but those things happen gradually. F1 won't die at least not in our lifetime, no matter how many "what ifs" a few disgruntled "fans" spout on the forums.

If you are waiting for the sport to turn into what you think it should be you better not hold your breath because it will never happen.

 

Better accept it for what it is and enjoy the sport if you can, if not something else might be better suited for you.

 

@ MrPodium   I completely agree

[SenorSjon]

Your list says enough:

Russia >>> Ukrain war, annexation of the Crimea region

China >>> people wanted to boycot the Olympics there

Bahrain >>> was once skipped due to demonstrations against the government and for human rights.

 

Do those countries have any motorsport heritage? Next up is Azerbeidjan to host a race. No-mansland South-Korea is passed-up, India only hosted a few, Turkey was binned after only a few seasons, Valencia had some shady politics to build and host the track, etc. But FOM got his money so it is all fine? In 2018 Sky/BBC have to renew or skip, RTL D is thinking hard about their F1 antics due to more than halved viewership. France doesn't even host a race, let alone the racing is put behind a paywall, just like Italy. Ferrari can't keep up in this simulation era, so in the end fans will turn away.

 

There is only so much money you can extract out of everyone. When in the '90/early '00 you could talk about F1 with just anyone in school or work, but now hardly anyone is watching. You just seem like the odd guy who watches Miele vacuums going around with penis noses in a competition to use as little fuel as possbile on tracks that look like a car park.

[Elba]

Your list says enough:

Russia >>> Ukrain war, annexation of the Crimea region

China >>> people wanted to boycot the Olympics there

Bahrain >>> was once skipped due to demonstrations against the government and for human rights.

 

Do those countries have any motorsport heritage? Next up is Azerbeidjan to host a race. No-mansland South-Korea is passed-up, India only hosted a few, Turkey was binned after only a few seasons, Valencia had some shady politics to build and host the track, etc. But FOM got his money so it is all fine?

 

So that's your big list of countries that have F1 on life support?  Laughable really.

You also fail to address the point why F1 like all governments and blue chip companies shouldn't do business with them.

 

Like I said before F1 is doing fine with it's money stream coming from race organizers and if sometimes 1 venue folds there's a long list of others waiting for their chance to host a race. Recently Austria was added again and now Mexico, countries with fine motorsport heritage albeit that's not a very important factor in my books.

 

Again you do not make a compelling case why F1 must or will die anytime soon.

 

In 2018 Sky/BBC have to renew or skip, RTL D is thinking hard about their F1 antics due to more than halved viewership. France doesn't even host a race, let alone the racing is put behind a paywall, just like Italy. Ferrari can't keep up in this simulation era, so in the end fans will turn away.

 

Again a lot of supposition and what ifs, better stick to the facts and those do not support your contention that F1 must or will die anytime soon.

 

There is only so much money you can extract out of everyone. When in the '90/early '00 you could talk about F1 with just anyone in school or work, but now hardly anyone is watching. You just seem like the odd guy who watches Miele vacuums going around with penis noses in a competition to use as little fuel as possbile on tracks that look like a car park.

 

Well this thread is not about me, the enjoyment I get from Formula 1, ugly noses or engine sound. F1 is what it is and many millions still immensely enjoy it that's who F1 is catering to. 

 

I still talk to many people who still enjoy the Sport to various degrees but frankly the amount of people who like/watch F1 does not even register on my scale of things why I love the sport unlike you seemingly.

 

Maybe it's not the sport why people don't discuss F1 with you anymore, nobody likes doomsday thinkers you know 

[ronsingapore]

No surprise there just a lot of supposition and what ifs......  

 

Shady countries??? Which ones, Russia, China, Bahrain, the Emirates??? All countries that governments and blue chip companies deal with on a daily basis, why not F1? People have been moaning about the supposedly one day fly that the Bahrain GP would be but we've had 10 GPs already so what's your point?

 

F1 is not on life support from anyone and is far from dying. If 1 GP folds there's a long list of other countries waiting to host one, so again what's your point?

 

The sport is a big (financial) supertanker with many vested interests, surely its course needs to be adjusted slightly from time to time and it usually does but those things happen gradually. F1 won't die at least not in our lifetime, no matter how many "what ifs" a few disgruntled "fans" spout on the forums.

If you are waiting for the sport to turn into what you think it should be you better not hold your breath because it will never happen.

 

Better accept it for what it is and enjoy the sport if you can, if not something else might be better suited for you.

 

@ MrPodium   I completely agree

 

it can survive if it expands further; as an Asian myself, i feel that F1 has already gone as far as it can in the Asia-Pacific region; maybe it is time to expand further into Latin america, and tap onto the emerging middle-class there, i.e. Spanish language commentators and such; it could really tap onto the Hispanic community in the US, as it is fast-becoming the largest ethnic group in the US- there is a lot of potential consumer dollars and sponsorship dollars there too.

[anbeck]

Such a shame that F1 is dying a slow death, when after the Toyota/Honda/Renault/BMW-pullout it had the chance of a fast death and hence the option for a rethink. If FI and Sauber close their doors, Bernie and the FIA will come up with a way of superficially rejuvenating F1, while structurally securing their interests. None of the parties will make any real concessions as long as somebody is putting some kind of money on the table. It's like in the EU, where the production of meat is completely decoupled from actual demand due to the money that is going around in the system. Grands Prix in the Middle East are just like that. 

 

I also think that those here who are missing tobacco sponsorship might overestimate the potential impact. F1 'lost' tobacco sponsoring way before "The Crisis"™. I'm sure financial commitments have undergone a rethink even in the tobacco industry. Although I would assume that the demand for cigarettes, being a commodity that is usually seen as addictive, is less volatile even in times of crisis, I cannot imagine big companies throwing $100 million after an F1 team anymore -- not least, because most countries have introduced much harsher regulations and laws concerning the public consumption of cigarettes (that must surely have an impact on sales figures). So tobacco sponsorship isn't the panacea some want it to be. It's just a part of 1990s turbo capitalism that was made impossible before it would have declined anyway.

[Jejking]

They respectively invented the sport and monetised it, and between them have run F1 'for ever' - isn't that enough stability for you?

Not when it's not being controlled properly and bleeding support from both circuits, sponsors, manufacturers and fans. The financial situation is pretty poor, even though now we're climbing out of the problems of the crisis.

Edited by Jejking, 04 February 2015 - 09:28.