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Motoring News - end of an era?


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#1 Derwent Motorsport

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Posted 11 January 2015 - 16:51

Well for me certainly. My subscription finished at the end of the year and I've not renewed it. I used to buy MN on the way to school at a 14 year old when it was still B&W and continued to collect it each week until I went on to a subscription a few years ago to save on the high cost it rose to.

It now arrived by post and it lasts as long as my afternoon coffee to read. Over the years it seems to have completely lost it's way and it's mantle of the "voice of British motor sport." MN (as it was) was always better than AS for club motorsport of all kinds but now it just seems to be endless press releases pasted in by a bunch of lads straight out of university journalists' school. When did you last see a staff member at an event? When did a staff member ever compete?

There are hardly any adverts now so no doubt costs are being cut all round while the internet and sites like Motorsport Monday provide up to date info and results.

I can't see it lasting much longer unless there are drastic changes. ):



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#2 Thundersports

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Posted 11 January 2015 - 18:33

Have to agree with you the lack of content is shocking. I cancelled mine last spring having gone back to it 6-7 years ago from Autosport.



#3 john aston

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Posted 11 January 2015 - 20:00

Well let's not be too surprised eh ?

 

1 For most people F1 is all that motorsport involves

 

2 Club rallying is dead

 

3 Club racing is not dead but so fractured and reliant on spec formulae that BTCC apart nobody goes to see it

 

4 The internet offers instant news and rumour 

 

5 The modern..erm .....petrolhead knows all the model numbers of M3s and the laptimes that a GTR posted at the Ring but because he does a few track days he is a driving god and sees no need to watch people doing it properly. He would rather be at home posting acerbic comments on youtube about real racing drivers lines .   

 

6 MN lost its way years ago - do we cover F1 (and Simon Arron's very funny reports are missed ) or Kings Lynn bangers last wednesday night ?

 

Me? Gave up MN years ago and ditto Autosport- worth reading for Marcus Pye only - rest was F1 fanzine. Motor Sport is the only show in town for me on the racing front . Few bite size articles, far more in depth stuff and writers who can write 



#4 pete53

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Posted 11 January 2015 - 20:31

I still remember the anticipation of picking up my copy from the newsagents on my way to school of a Thursday morning - 6d and later 9d. Hard to believe now but in the 60s quite often I wouldn't know the result of the previous weekend's Grand Prix prior to picking up MN.

I enjoyed club racing as much as the loftier stuff and MN could be relied upon to give you a comprehensive report from every "clubbie". There were those mysterious reporters only known by their initials, most memorably ARM and MGD. I still have quite a few copies but it is many many years since I last purchased a copy, as it is many years since I had the desire to watch contemporary club racing.



#5 sterling49

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Posted 11 January 2015 - 20:59

I stopped reading it long ago, and like most on this forum, could not wait to get my hands on the latest edition way back.....I used to have it delivered from around '67 onwards, but now there is little in it that holds my interest.  Very sad,



#6 Doug Nye

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Posted 11 January 2015 - 21:15

I have every copy of the once beloved MN from its launch in 1955 up to around 1996, all bound in wonderfully bulky volumes, initially one per year, then two when they went up from what I fondly imagine to have been tabloid up to broadsheet, then somewhat massive single annual volumes...

 

And then I realised that I was collecting them because I always had...and I was no longer reading the darned things, consuming them, every single paragraph, in the way I had for donkey's years. And so I stopped, to the great benefit of shelf space at home. But it's a decision I now regret. Due to the newsprint nature of the beast, very few copies of MN seem to have been preserved by enthusiasts in the way that better-bound magazines like 'Autosport' have been.  The only other person I know who has a similar bound run of MN to mine is Simon Taylor, but then he had a close personal involvement  through his Haymarket company responsibilities. In its day MN was a superb journal of record - only matched by 'Autosport' at its finest.  Those days seem a very, very distant memory right now. And MN of course was launched for the Tee family company by my one time editor and co-mentor, the late, great Cyril Posthumus - and it gave a start to John Blunsden, Mike Twite, Mike Cotton, John Davenport, Andrew Marriott, Alan Henry, Mike Doodson and so very very many more. It was a great publication in its day - for which Michael Tee deserves great credit as its most dynamic (indeed bloody relentless) driving force during its best years.  But what has become of it over the past 10-15 years?  Oh dear me...   :well:

 

DCN



#7 Tim Murray

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Posted 11 January 2015 - 21:16

I can still remember the day in late 1965 that I grabbed our newspaperman and told him to deliver MN instead of my Eagle comic. I was then an avid reader of both MN and Autosport for the next 30 years or so, until with Haymarket then owning both MN and Autosport I decided there was no point in reading the same stuff twice, so downsized to Autosport on its own. I continued with Autosport for another 10 years or so, until I realised that in many weeks I wasn't actually reading anything in it beyond the headlines, so gave up altogether on the weeklies. I do strongly suspect that the days of the weekly mag for enthusiasts has passed.

#8 alansart

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Posted 11 January 2015 - 21:39

In the early 70's I picked up MN on a Wednesday and Autosport on a Thursday in between my 3 buses from home in Stevenage to Luton for College and devoured the content, mainly of club racing and illustrations between the pages. Happy days :)

 

I've not brought MN or Autosport for years apart from at an Airport somewhere. It's rather sad really.



#9 Jack-the-Lad

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Posted 11 January 2015 - 22:39

In the 1970s and '80s I used to pick it up at my newsstand...twice the cover price and about as up-to-date as the monthlies, as I'm in the US.  But I bought it anyway, as it was that much better than anything else I had access to back then.



#10 elansprint72

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Posted 11 January 2015 - 23:06

To the people of Didsbury on my newspaper round  who took MN (all three of you back in 1963)  I apologise for having thumbed through your copies and, having delivered them; in somewhat rumpled fashion.

To the rest of you who, purchased the rag but a few years later, and suffered my (average) photography, immaculate punctuation, yet dreadful opinions and reportage: oh well... :wave:



#11 Allan Lupton

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Posted 12 January 2015 - 08:43

Club motorsport of the sort we used to read about in MN (and Autosport) has turned out to have been a phenomenon of the second half of the twentieth century. It follows that the magazines/newspapers that reported that motorsport have also had their half-century of life, but they remain a useful archive about what we did and watched then.



#12 Stephen W

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Posted 12 January 2015 - 10:13

I too started getting Motoring News in 1965. Can't remember the year I stopped but it probably coincided with the year they stopped covering club speed events. I agree with previous posters that the powers that be at Haymarket cannot make their minds up what they should do with two weekly motorsport magazines. I always thought that Autosport should concentrate on World championships & International events in the UK leaving MN to cover just British events.

 

Having been a contributor to MN for many years 2015 marks my 'retirement' from front-line journalism. Quite honestly I can't afford to continue to cover the events having made significant losses in everyone of the last 12 years. As for buying MN I have usually popped into WH Smiths to see what sort of coverage I ended up getting and only bought issues when they ran one of my photos! I never bothered with getting my copies bound (likewise with Autosport) as having seen bound copies I thought them more cumbersome.

 

I can't say that I will miss reading MN as like so many other posters I blasted through the copies I did buy in half an hour or so. I was never a great fan of Karting or Truck Racing so their inclusion in MN was always a waste of space as far as I was concerned.

 

From an 'insiders' viewpoint I must say that the turn-over of sub-editors that I have had to deal with over the years has been worrying. Just as I managed to get each one trained to a level that they understood speed events they would move on. I have dealt with some excellent young journalists and also a couple who were total idiots. I always keep a copy of the reports I submit and on more than one occasion I ended up sending my submitted report to an irate competitor or sponsor so that they would understand that although it was my name under the report what was printed wasn't what I submitted. My final concern, which has been to my mind one of the reasons for falling readership of MN, is that the so called editorial bits like Sporting Scene were latterly put to bed on Friday afternoon. This meant that if I attended a Nat B 'club event' like a sprint at 3 Sisters there was no way to include a short piece on who got FTD or broke a long standing record. If I submitted the details on the Saturday or Sunday it would not appear in the next issue and would be considered out of date by the subsequent issue. I can only assume that this was occurring due to either the sub-editors being out in the field on Sunday or too bone idle to compile their 'editorial piece' on the Sunday night.



#13 Derwent Motorsport

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Posted 12 January 2015 - 11:30

In his autobiography Stuart Turner recounts that when he was rally editor he took part in around 65 events a year. I doubt if any current or recent staff member ever competes. Indeed I wonder how many events they attend other than BRC, WRC or BTCC?

Sporting Scene is usually given to the office junior to do, hence the high turnover. I've spoken to several over the years and always been surprised to find they have never attended any autotests, trials, sprints or hill climbs. How can they write about them then? A bit like me being asked to write a column on soccer!

I am told the circulation is now less than 10,000. I think in the mid 80s it was 130,000?



#14 chunder27

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Posted 12 January 2015 - 12:53

As a person similar to Stephen W who used to work there briefly and contributed for many years it is rather sad.

 

I would read Tubbers 2000 word F3000 reports for Gods sake, that is how good it was, Deeks 4 page world rally reports detailing every stage pretty much, massive GP reviews with a page for qualifying, BTCC reports, rallycross on the front cover a few times. Could you still sell a paper with that much proint copy? I really think you could, but I just think modern people are not capable of reading it anymore as we were.

 

Bit like CCC, it has just not got a readership anymore. Not for publishers anyway. After I left MN I nearly got a job with CCC, until the publisher decided he wated to take CCC in a road orientated direction. Result, it was done and dusted in 18months. Is that readership still there? I am sure it is.

 

We have to face facts and they are that club motorsport is on it's knees. MSA stuff at the very least. MN tried when I was there to get into the club scene, have you tried ringing motor clubs until the earrly evening getting no replies, no interest, no news of any sort? I remember having a meeting with Stuart Turner about this very same thing, it was like getting blood from a stone, and when you did get something that was newsworthy, hang on Damon Hill is changing his brand of overalls, we must do a full page spread, then ring up the poor bloke you just wasted an hour chatting to and tell him there isn't room.

 

There was a LOT of snobbery at MN, but there were some good people and they tried really hard.

 

As for contributing, I gave that all up many years, was just a total pain in the arse, trying to get onto press pass lists, arguing with PR people, getting tuppence halfpenny for hours of work.  Its hard work writing a 1500 word report on one race I can tell you, especially when all you can hear on a dictaphone is a loud of shouting and swearing from your mates and "he's leading, no he went out first lap"

 

It is a shame yes, but should be allowed to die now. It cant make any money.

 

I had some fun, like making up stories on slow news days of having a stock car world final at the Millenium Stadium, or making mistakes that had guys at Prodrive ringing half the rally teams in Britain as I called a Ford a Subaru by mistake!

 

I also got to go in a 6R4, ambition realised. But to be honest, all I can remember is snobbery, nasty people and some really nice folk who went on to do much better things. They know who they are.



#15 Derwent Motorsport

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Posted 12 January 2015 - 13:45

That is an interesting comment re the club scene. As secretary of a successful club we have always found it difficult to get coverage in MN and AS. We actually have an emailer system that puts out personalised press releases to around 60 publications. We do have some success with some of the classic mags but rarely get anything in MN/AS. I sometimes wonder if it's a matter of geography as we are in Cumbria which is a bit north of Watford Gap where civilisation apparently stops! Thus as we can't get any reports or news on then our members are unlikely to buy it. Do they want to read: "16 year old Fred Blogs will be sponsored in the Saxomax series by Bogs the Builder. Bob Blogs boss of Blogs the Builder said he was delighted to be backing a young talent and was hoping for top 20 finishes." - how many snippets like that appear every spring? Dozens.



#16 chunder27

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Posted 12 January 2015 - 14:05

Bear in mind fella, this was late 90's so the tech was not around as much then.

 

I did try but we dropped it and i got blamed for not maing enough effort, despite sitting once a week ringing motor clubs out the blue book!

 

Sadly chap, news like that is not very interesting for readers. Sorry to say.



#17 opplock

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Posted 12 January 2015 - 15:34

 until with Haymarket then owning both MN and Autosport I decided there was no point in reading the same stuff twice, so downsized to Autosport on its own.

 

 

Me too. I first heard of MN when a schoolfriend turned up one day with the 1971 British GP issue. We got a monumental bollocking for reading it in a study period. The teacher thought we should have been studying for School Cert exams (equivalent to O levels) but fortunately didn't confiscate it. I started to read MN weekly and continued to do so until I realised that the same articles were used in both publications. The MN adverts were useful whenever I needed to buy tyres or other spares but now we can find everything on the web.

 

MN did provide my favourite motorsport related headline "Brave Beltoise bounces back for BRM".



#18 Derwent Motorsport

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Posted 12 January 2015 - 15:38

Exactly, I don't care about Joe Boggs but I do want to publicise my own club's events and actually raise awareness that cheap affordable motorsport does exist within the motorsport community. It’s not all BTCC or BRC! We currently have some 750 members which is good for an essentially rural area. We are fortunate in having a very good club magazine with some very experienced contributors and perhaps currently it is a better read than MN! If anyone wants to have a look, past issues are on our website at www.wigtonmc.co.uk



#19 BRG

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Posted 12 January 2015 - 15:48

I took MN religiously for decades.  I only stopped when it became harder and harder to find a copy to buy, and when the print quality became atrocious with colour photos and text out of register and the whole thing badly folded.  I recently mused on starting again but was shocked by the price.

 

Basically, the day of a weekly journal is gone, I fear, with the internet taking its place.  Better to celebrate how MN in its day carried so many of us into active motorsport participation and was our weekly 'bible' and forget its current moribund state.



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#20 Bloggsworth

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Posted 12 January 2015 - 17:58

I first read MN when it was printed on green paper - When I was at boarding school, my stepmother occasionally sent me one. I stopped reading it and Autosport many years ago when I realised that they weren't printing anything I wanted to read.



#21 Doug Nye

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Posted 12 January 2015 - 18:04

This does make one concerned about survival of any hard-print record of competition motoring in all its forms.  Even at their absolute best neither 'MN' nor 'Autosport' really achieved blanket coverage for every event that took place, but at least they made a darned good effort to do so - as journals of record should. Today the transient nature of internet coverage - so easily deleted at the whim of a bored exec wanting to free some storage or band width (?? right expression  :confused: ??) - is the equivalent of the sometime new art editor of one o the great British weeklies who concluded that too much office space was being taken up by all those old glass-plate negatives of bygone racing and rally photos, and he had a huge amount dumped in a skip.  Thankfully, while his people were dumping them in one side of the skip, the likes of Cyril Posthumus and Geoff Goddard were dragging (most of) them to safety on the other.

 

Where are the conservators, the rescuers, the preservers today?  Or is it down to the likes of ourselves to pay better attention?

 

DCN



#22 RS2000

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Posted 12 January 2015 - 19:45

MN was also virtually the sole source of advertising for rally spares (and cars) back in the day. Autosport catered much more for race cars/spares, with the accent on cars. I got all manner of stuff by being able to collect MN on Waterloo Station first thing on a Wednesday morning on the way into work, when its official publication date was Thursday (or in earlier years get it Thursday before Friday publication?). We all know what has happened to spares selling now.

I wasn't the only one who's first task in Whitehall on a Wednesday was to check the MN classifieds before drafting the Minister's urgent briefing papers... 



#23 Stephen W

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Posted 13 January 2015 - 10:34

That is an interesting comment re the club scene. As secretary of a successful club we have always found it difficult to get coverage in MN and AS. We actually have an emailer system that puts out personalised press releases to around 60 publications. We do have some success with some of the classic mags but rarely get anything in MN/AS. I sometimes wonder if it's a matter of geography as we are in Cumbria which is a bit north of Watford Gap where civilisation apparently stops!

 

Suddenly one year whilst contributing MN's then Sub-Editor in charge of Sporting Scene started to edit out all mention of sponsorship in my reports e.g. "the SBD Motorsport British Sprint Championship" became "the sprint championship". I got in touch and asked what he was playing at. Apparently the Editor in Chief had told all the subbies to remove sponsorship references from reports - least that's what he told me. I suggested that the editor was operating a double standard when I had read all the sponsorship references in the F1 and BTCC reports in recent issues. I also suggested that if the sponsors withdrew from their deal with the British Sprint Championship due to a lack of inclusion it might not play well. Several days later I got a reply to tell me that "series sponsors" would be allowed. 

Whenever i have submitted 'news stories' about sponsorship deals in recent years be they series or individual they haven't always been run.

 

This does make one concerned about survival of any hard-print record of competition motoring in all its forms.  Even at their absolute best neither 'MN' nor 'Autosport' really achieved blanket coverage for every event that took place, but at least they made a darned good effort to do so - as journals of record should. Today the transient nature of internet coverage - so easily deleted at the whim of a bored exec wanting to free some storage or band width (?? right expression  :confused: ??) - is the equivalent of the sometime new art editor of one o the great British weeklies who concluded that too much office space was being taken up by all those old glass-plate negatives of bygone racing and rally photos, and he had a huge amount dumped in a skip.  Thankfully, while his people were dumping them in one side of the skip, the likes of Cyril Posthumus and Geoff Goddard were dragging (most of) them to safety on the other.

 

Where are the conservators, the rescuers, the preservers today?  Or is it down to the likes of ourselves to pay better attention?

 

DCN

 

My personal archive of old MNs and Autosports do take up a lot of room but they are wonderful resources. I shudder to think what will happen to them all when I shuffle off this mortal coil. Meanwhile I am trying to record as much as I can and post it within the public domain.

 

MN was also virtually the sole source of advertising for rally spares (and cars) back in the day. Autosport catered much more for race cars/spares, with the accent on cars. I got all manner of stuff by being able to collect MN on Waterloo Station first thing on a Wednesday morning on the way into work, when its official publication date was Thursday (or in earlier years get it Thursday before Friday publication?). We all know what has happened to spares selling now.

I wasn't the only one who's first task in Whitehall on a Wednesday was to check the MN classifieds before drafting the Minister's urgent briefing papers... 

 

I know of several advertisers in MN who have considered pulling out as the circulation has dropped or who have in fact stopped advertising in MN. I find it odd that as the circulation has dropped so the costs have spiraled. It is far cheaper to advertise on-line.



#24 opplock

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Posted 13 January 2015 - 12:17


I know of several advertisers in MN who have considered pulling out as the circulation has dropped or who have in fact stopped advertising in MN. I find it odd that as the circulation has dropped so the costs have spiraled. It is far cheaper to advertise on-line.

 

Not so odd. If circulation is dropping a magazine must either cut ruthlessly cut costs or extract more revenue from each subscriber and/or advertiser. The reduction in subscribers however makes the magazine less attractive to advertisers and a reduction in quality results in losing more subscribers. Ultimate result - closure. 

 

Motorsport has managed to avoid this fate which is one reason why I do not moan about the ads for ridiculously expensive watches.   



#25 ensign14

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Posted 13 January 2015 - 13:46

 

Where are the conservators, the rescuers, the preservers today?  Or is it down to the likes of ourselves to pay better attention?

 

 

Wayback Machine

 

Not perfect but better than nothing.



#26 kayemod

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Posted 13 January 2015 - 14:32

...the equivalent of the sometime new art editor of one o the great British weeklies who concluded that too much office space was being taken up by all those old glass-plate negatives of bygone racing and rally photos, and he had a huge amount dumped in a skip.  Thankfully, while his people were dumping them in one side of the skip, the likes of Cyril Posthumus and Geoff Goddard were dragging (most of) them to safety on the other.

 

Where are the conservators, the rescuers, the preservers today?  Or is it down to the likes of ourselves to pay better attention?

 

DCN

 

An American friend has lived and worked in Boston for much of his life, he's a pathologist, and the city used to boast of one of the best archives of historical reference material, some of it dating back to the 19th century. Recently retired, he went to this library one day to research something for his book, and found a large skip (dumpster?) overflowing with old documents and other material. Alarmed, he rushed inside to ask what was going on, only to be told "Oh, we don't need all that old stuff any more now everything has been digitised". How many of us have suffered a hard disk failure, floppy disks anyone?



#27 Doug Nye

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Posted 13 January 2015 - 20:25

I have heard similar tales several times in recent years. This abiding trust in an electronic 'reality' is terrifyingly short-sighted...  Scanning and digitisation is indeed wonderful - but only as an easily accessible back-up to preserved originals, for which there can be no substitute.  (Unless it's really boring stuff...about touring cars... :smoking: )

 

DCN



#28 BP1

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Posted 13 January 2015 - 20:59

In relation to Doug's post there is a chap in North Wales who does indeed have every copy of MN, and from what he's told me MN quite often ask him for info :clap:

 

The world of printed media is struggling but likewise online is too....i'm fortunate to write for an e-magazine that sees reader downloads of around 100k per month, but yet it barley breaks even. I've found similar myself in that trying to do meaningful reports on Historic meetings in particular (although I don't have space constraints) is now a cost to myself so it's very much a 'hobby' now sadly.

 

Interesting comments regarding British Club Rallying being dead, the first round of BTRDA series The Wyedean has just taken 165 entries in 7 days..so perhaps don't believe everything you read (or not as is the case)

 

Do feel for the chaps at MN, I think they try and do the best they can but are very much strangled by what they can do.



#29 BRG

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Posted 13 January 2015 - 21:01

 

I wasn't the only one who's first task in Whitehall on a Wednesday was to check the MN classifieds before drafting the Minister's urgent briefing papers... 

Indeed not.  I think I got a heated rear window, new fuel tank, uprated struts and bigger wheels for my old Mk1 Escort GT from the small ads. 

 

As for digitisation of records, this was a little known but potentially far-reaching initiative by PM Blair, who instructed that all government departments should move to electronic records PDQ.  As a result, the amount of stuff electronically filed in my old department dropped massively compared to the previous paper files.  Not important?  Many would say that the Civil Service should have stopped fling everything long ago, but in 20 or 30 or 40 years time when people want to know what HMG was up to on some issue that was not regarded as of any importance back in 2010 and are told that no records were kept, and anyway all the digital files have failed, evaporated or otherwise vanished, there will be a great fuss.  But it will be too late of course.



#30 Mallory Dan

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Posted 13 January 2015 - 21:13

That chap has an awful lot to answer for.....



#31 Doug Nye

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Posted 13 January 2015 - 21:26

Too true...   :evil:



#32 Robin Fairservice

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Posted 13 January 2015 - 22:20

A major problem with digital archives is that technology changes  Could your present computer read a WORD 95 file? A few years ago the UK National Archives realised that they could not read government electronic documents from the early 1980's.  Microsoft was supposed to be trying to figure out an appropriate system, but I have never heard of any success.  As a Genealogist, it is said that the only long term method of retaining documents is as hard copy on acid free paper.

 

In Canada, for everything that is published, a copy has to go to the National Archives.  Is that the same in the UK? I believe that the British Museum receives a copy of every book, and that there is (or was) a library of UK newspapers at Colindale.  Would they have copies of all of "Motoring News" for instance?



#33 john aston

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Posted 14 January 2015 - 07:48

I think we run the risk of getting dewey eyed about the medium and not the message. Pre digitisaition in my then legal world we struggled to know what we had and if you don't know that it isn't worth keeping anyway because you can't find it. I can't get any more sentimental about MN per se than I can about a black and white TV . We are awash with information now - more than we ever could dream  and it suits me just fine.



#34 Vitesse2

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Posted 14 January 2015 - 09:48


In Canada, for everything that is published, a copy has to go to the National Archives.  Is that the same in the UK? I believe that the British Museum receives a copy of every book, and that there is (or was) a library of UK newspapers at Colindale.  Would they have copies of all of "Motoring News" for instance?

The British Library should - in theory - have a copy of every issue of MN. Colindale has actually closed and the physical copies are apparently now at St Pancras. Eventually, all physical copies of papers and periodicals will be transferred to their storage facility in Boston Spa in Yorkshire - their long-term aim is to make everything available electronically at St Pancras. I say 'in theory', because the BL's cataloguing of periodicals sometimes isn't very helpful! St Pancras appears to hold 1956-2009 (except 1957, but that may be an error, and they probably have the later ones too). The National Library of Scotland has most copies since 1980 and the National Library of Wales' set starts in 1987.

 

Britain has six 'copyright libraries' - the BL, the Bodleian, Cambridge University, Trinity College Dublin and the National Libraries of Scotland and Wales. In practice these days, only the BL receives a copy of every book - the others request what they want. Boston Spa now houses what is known as the National Collection: on several occasions I've had books from there on library inter-loan - I have one on my desk right now, as it happens!

 

Handy search engine for over 80 academic libraries in the British Isles, which includes all the above: http://copac.ac.uk/



#35 Derwent Motorsport

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Posted 14 January 2015 - 10:14

What is interesting is that I've not had any follow up to not renewing. With other mags you end up getting email and phone calls with "very special" offers to get you back on board.

Re the comment re the BTRDA event getting a good entry. Sadly BTRDA is hardly club rallying these days. These days there are very few road rallies of any type and I recently checked our regional association events list for 1984 with 2014. Stage rallies were just 30% of what they were thirty years ago. Most other events have dropped substantially as well. Events aimed at historics are the only growth area - those run under the HRCR & NESCRO banners.



#36 RTH

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Posted 14 January 2015 - 12:12

Everybody is on the same wavelength here - except the people who produce it each week.

It was an absolute joy.

If they could reproduce the style and type of content - and the all important volume of  classifieds of the 60s-90s I would re subscribe in a heat beat - They lost my money 15 years ago.

I have bought the odd one in the feint hope it would improve - it hasn't.

And no on line does not come close and never will.



#37 examateur racer

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Posted 15 January 2015 - 12:56

I swapped many years ago from MN to Autosport as I swapped Rallying to Circuit racing. I always found MN good for buying competion car bits Autosport has got dire for adverts. I always feel that Autosport is loosing it's way. In my humble opinion the club area of the magazine needs to expand and be more detailed, the adverts need to be encouraged and the amount of quasi professional motorsport reported from minor counties needs to be reduced.

 

It was refreshing to see that the Autosport webpage had an article about Crutchlow, it would be nice to see Autosport expanding into MotoGP, but what do I know?


Edited by examateur racer, 15 January 2015 - 12:57.


#38 chunder27

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Posted 15 January 2015 - 15:37

Autosport hvae been covering MotoGP for years but only online, cant imagine they would bother putting stuff into print, it is not really serving their purpose, and the only reason they did was because bike racing was becoming ever more popular in the UK. Am sure MCN were delighted at the news!

 

Adverts are always a big issue, I know form experience it costs a damn fortune to advertise in these magazines, and I also know from experience that unless you are selling parts or cars, it is fairly fruitless. Most deals are done early in the year for a year or a certain amount of time, and I know one company who would never use Haymarket again as they got very little out of the deal other than a huge up front payment and people asking for freebies all the time.

 

But it must work for some as the ads have always been reasonably full and concise on both mags.



#39 BP1

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Posted 15 January 2015 - 22:48

In regards to Road Rallying which Derwent mentioned....Rali Bro Caron, has just had 133 entries for 90 spaces within 10 days..I accept it's not what it was in some parts of the country but let's try and be positive over what we have chaps :D



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#40 fbarrett

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Posted 16 January 2015 - 00:10

Sadly, almost everything that has been written above also applies to AutoWeek in the U.S.



#41 Derwent Motorsport

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Posted 16 January 2015 - 10:58

Sadly night road rallying only exists in a few areas where it is still tolerated. Some of the great road rallies of the past in the Lakes etc will be some of my greatest motorsport memories. There is no way we could get away with it now and the number of good navigators is now very small.



#42 pacificquay

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Posted 16 January 2015 - 11:54

 

 

It was refreshing to see that the Autosport webpage had an article about Crutchlow, it would be nice to see Autosport expanding into MotoGP, but what do I know?

 

 

I would wish for quite the reverse - that they stop doing Moto GP on the Autosport website



#43 KRT917

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Posted 04 February 2015 - 18:23

 Hello all,

 

Apologies for coming to this discussion now, but I have only just come across it.

 

Having worked at Autosport (largely on the National desk) for over eight years and recently moved over to edit Motorsport News, I thought I should comment! There have been some very interesting points here, some spot-on observations (e.g. John Ashton), but also some assumptions/falsehoods. I shan't attempt to cover everything in one post, but please feel free to ask questions/raise points.

 

So, a few quick thoughts, particularly from the post that started the thread...

 

First off, neither publication ever simply cuts and pastes press releases. Much of the news comes from press releases because so many teams/series/clubs now send out their info in that way. I am sure everyone would agree those news stories shouldn't be left out simply because there has been a release about it. One of our jobs is to filter/enhance/explain the news that is there. If a story is big enough and time allows, we will contact those concerned to get our own quotes and info. If not, then the releases will always be rewritten to take out the PR factor. Of course, the ideal is exclusive news stories, which both titles still get, but it is much harder these days for reasons others have already pointed out. It is also not unheard of for PRs to rush out a release if they hear we are going to run a story.

 

As for a bunch of lads who never go to events, I feel I must stick up for both titles! Matt James, for example, has worked on MN for nearly 20 years. I have reported on one form of the sport or another for over 10. Rob Ladbrook has been here over 7 years. And that's half MN's office team! Similarly, all of us cover and/or go to events. Generally, everyone has their own championships to cover, but pretty much everyone goes to extra events as well. To me, that's one of the most important (and fun) aspects of the job: going to events and speaking to those involved. People go into motorsport journalism do it for the love of it. Those that don't quickly leave. 

 

As pete53 implies, part of the problem is that the appeal of motorsport is less these days. For the younger audience, there are loads more things to do, while longer-term enthusiasts get (understandably) frustrated at things like performance balancing, single-make categories, pay drivers etc. Similarly, many people say the sport (and/or indeed, the mags) were 'better back then', but when was that exactly? I have spent a lot of time in the archive (and happily spent my teenage years reading my dad's collection of old Autosports and Motor Sports) and the sport and publications have changed continuously over the years.

 

What the publications should cover and focus on is, indeed, a key issue. To me, Autosport has breadth in terms of international coverage, while MN is UK-focused and covers things Autosport does not. There is, of course, overlap. For example, I don't believe either could do away with F1, even though the importance of it to each mag is different.

 

I'd be very interested to hear what people think MN (and Autosport) should do more or less of. The problem I have found previously when asking this is that people tend to answer with 'what I like/am involved in', and going into the depth everyone wants for everything would make the publications far too big and expensive. Contrary to popular belief, both titles do still make money. Similarly, many say they want blow-by-blow reports, but many (certainly international) events are so well covered that, by the time you get to Wednesday or Thursday, you know the 'what'. That's why there are attempts to explain the how, why etc.

 

This has got far longer than I intended, so I shall stop here for now (other than to make a slightly different point below)! Thank you for you time.

 

Best regards,

Kevin Turner

Motorsport News Editor 



#44 KRT917

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Posted 04 February 2015 - 18:39

A couple of other quick thoughts.

 

I completely share Doug Nye's concerns over record keeping. Online records are (or can be) more secure than many believe, but I still prefer a hard copy. This could explain why my desk, home, and dad's house are full of various mags, programmes and results sheets, which I hate to throw away but have yet to sort. Haymarket tried a clear desk policy a few years ago, which pretty much all the motorsport-related staff failed terribly at! We do still keep an archive for all publications here, though - sad to say - some of it goes missing when people come in for research so there are gaps (some have even cut out pics or covers they like).

 

I also get the feeling people think Autosport and Motorsport News don't care about the history of the sport. As with anything, some staff are more into the history than others, but I for one have worked very hard to get more historical pieces in. There's so much of it to explore and enjoy! I've been involved (even if not the writer) with many of the historical pieces or track tests in Autosport over the last few years and have rarely had to twist the editor's arm too much to get them in. 

 

Similarly, this year MN is celebrating its 60th birthday. To me this seems like a great excuse to run historical pieces - whether they be short archive-based articles, longer interviews with drivers, or track tests – during 2015. Indeed, I aim to get at least one in every issue this year.

 

We will also be running a big bumper 60th issue on August 12, which of course will have a strong historical feel. I realise not everyone will like everything, but I do hope some at least take a look. We have a small team and are trying pretty damn hard!

 

All the best,

Kevin



#45 Stephen W

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Posted 05 February 2015 - 09:40

I also get the feeling people think Autosport and Motorsport News don't care about the history of the sport. As with anything, some staff are more into the history than others, but I for one have worked very hard to get more historical pieces in. There's so much of it to explore and enjoy! I've been involved (even if not the writer) with many of the historical pieces or track tests in Autosport over the last few years and have rarely had to twist the editor's arm too much to get them in. 

 

From the point of not caring for history I don't think that is the case. I am sure that they do. Unfortunately they don't seem to do sufficient research to eradicate the glaring historical errors which do give the impression that they don't care. It is even something as simple as wrong captioning or even mixing up captions. These basic errors do annoy those of a certain age.



#46 Richard Jenkins

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Posted 05 February 2015 - 21:37

I think it's a crying shame that someone from Motoring News has come on here, very fairly taken on as many points as they can, opened the floor up to suggestions and he's met with... silence.

 

Or is it just easier for everyone on here to be deconstructive, rather than constructive?



#47 sterling49

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Posted 05 February 2015 - 23:41

I read the posts Richard, but it is so very long ago that I stopped buying both publications, that I am just no longer connected or emotive about them, a real shame as I first started reading both in the mid '60s. The wheel has turned, we seem to find our information and news sources from other means now but I do thank the gent in question for taking the trouble.

#48 Stephen W

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Posted 06 February 2015 - 09:48

First off, neither publication ever simply cuts and pastes press releases. Much of the news comes from press releases because so many teams/series/clubs now send out their info in that way. I am sure everyone would agree those news stories shouldn't be left out simply because there has been a release about it. One of our jobs is to filter/enhance/explain the news that is there. If a story is big enough and time allows, we will contact those concerned to get our own quotes and info. If not, then the releases will always be rewritten to take out the PR factor. Of course, the ideal is exclusive news stories, which both titles still get, but it is much harder these days for reasons others have already pointed out. It is also not unheard of for PRs to rush out a release if they hear we are going to run a story.

 

Having submitted both News Stories and PR Releases then some of the "rewriting" leaves a lot to be desired. Sometimes the whole direction of the PR release has been turned on its head giving a far from flattering view or in some cases missing the point completely. 

 

As for a bunch of lads who never go to events, I feel I must stick up for both titles! Matt James, for example, has worked on MN for nearly 20 years. I have reported on one form of the sport or another for over 10. Rob Ladbrook has been here over 7 years. And that's half MN's office team! Similarly, all of us cover and/or go to events. Generally, everyone has their own championships to cover, but pretty much everyone goes to extra events as well. To me, that's one of the most important (and fun) aspects of the job: going to events and speaking to those involved. People go into motorsport journalism do it for the love of it. Those that don't quickly leave.

 

I have lost count of the number of Sub-editors that I have 'worked with' over the years. Only three ever visited British Sprint Rounds during their spell in charge of the 'Sporting Scene' desk. As a consequence of these visits the word count I was allocated rose as the sub-editors realised just what the events involved.

 

As pete53 implies, part of the problem is that the appeal of motorsport is less these days. For the younger audience, there are loads more things to do, while longer-term enthusiasts get (understandably) frustrated at things like performance balancing, single-make categories, pay drivers etc. Similarly, many people say the sport (and/or indeed, the mags) were 'better back then', but when was that exactly? I have spent a lot of time in the archive (and happily spent my teenage years reading my dad's collection of old Autosports and Motor Sports) and the sport and publications have changed continuously over the years.

 

I think the biggest change that I have seen is in the loss of the club stringers that supplied Motoring News, as it was, with reports of club events from all over the country. Some of the reports were more akin to long news stories but they did mention who set FTD or broke class records etc. The next change which I think has deminished the quality of the publication is the lack of space for late breaking news. News items that arrise over the week-end cannot be included in anything other than the report as the Sporting Scene page is 'put to bed' on Friday. This means that if the reporter includes them in his report he is sacrificing precious words from the event. 

 

What the publications should cover and focus on is, indeed, a key issue. To me, Autosport has breadth in terms of international coverage, while MN is UK-focused and covers things Autosport does not. There is, of course, overlap. For example, I don't believe either could do away with F1, even though the importance of it to each mag is different.

 

There is so much written about F1 on-line that waiting until Wednesday or Thursday to read what happened is a somewhat dated outlook. I record all the F1 races I don't watch live and watch them Sunday evening. I think that a reduced amount of space should be given over to F1 in MN so that the freed up space could then go to the wider coverage of BRITISH events. 

 

I'd be very interested to hear what people think MN (and Autosport) should do more or less of. The problem I have found previously when asking this is that people tend to answer with 'what I like/am involved in', and going into the depth everyone wants for everything would make the publications far too big and expensive. Contrary to popular belief, both titles do still make money. Similarly, many say they want blow-by-blow reports, but many (certainly international) events are so well covered that, by the time you get to Wednesday or Thursday, you know the 'what'. That's why there are attempts to explain the how, why etc.

 

May I make the following suggestions/observations as to what BOTH publications should do.

1. Autosport - this should concentrate on International Events worldwide with indepth analysis etc plus ALL the MSA Championships. They should also cover events like the Festival of Speed and Cholmondley Pagaent of Power. 

2. Motorsport News - this should cover International Events worldwide in a highlight format where they present the bare stats plus informed comment thus reducing the space these events currently take up. Then they should also pick up on ALL MSA championships plus Club motor sport at all levels including Goodwood and Cholmondley etc.

 

There appears to be a complete absence of reports on European hillclimbing in the last issues of both magazines and I think that should also be carried with short reports and a couple of photos as you would with the British equivalent.

 

This has got far longer than I intended, so I shall stop here for now (other than to make a slightly different point below)! Thank you for you time.

 

Best regards,

Kevin Turner

Motorsport News Editor 

 

My response in RED above.


Edited by Stephen W, 06 February 2015 - 09:50.


#49 Derwent Motorsport

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Posted 06 February 2015 - 16:46

I would echo a lot of what Stephen says.  The "Sporting Scene" page is often given to the "office boy" who knows nothing about those areas of the sport. Over the years the number of frustrating conversations I've had with novice journalists about what a sprint, trial, autosolo etc is must take the fingers of both hands. Then they move on and another lad takes over.............

Historic motorsport is the big growth area but is only given one page and who ever writes it seems blinkered to anything that is not the RAC Rally, Goodwood or Silverstone Classic. There is a huge amount going on out here other than those events.

As an organiser and competitors in various disciplines I used to meet MN staff members quite regularly but I don't think I've seen one this century.

Yes the internet has changed things, you either watch the events on TV or you get reports on the Monday on the web based magazines. Thus little need for MN or AS to report and presumably sending a journalist around the F1 and WRC championships with be a big cost to the publication.

As secretary of one of the biggest motor clubs in the UK with 780 members we send out lots of press releases about our events but it's rare for them to be published in either MN or AS but we have a good hit rate in other magazines. Thus few of our members (who compete in most disciplines) now read MSN or AS as their events and interests are not covered.

I could go on but I feel it is pointless trying to get change. :evil: