98 replies to this topic

[MikeV1987]

http://blackflag.jal...980435/ pgeorge

 

 

 

Auto Motor und Sport reported today that Porsche came extremely close to signing Fernando Alonso to run their third car at Le Mans, but Honda blocked the pick at the last minute.

 

 

 

Because Alonso is out of the picture for Porsche, I'm assuming Button probably can't have a go, either. Former Sauber driver Adrian Sutil has been linked to the car, but was not picked for the seat, either. Porsche is sticking to their story that they'll pull from their GTE team instead for the third car, but they disproved that the second they hired Hulkenberg.

 

Too bad, would have been awesome to watch!

Edited by MikeV1987, 17 January 2015 - 16:40.

[JHSingo]

Boo, Honda.

[jonpollak]

Kurt Busch might be available ...

Jp

[stewie]

Boo. Wish it was more like the old days where drivers drove whatever came their way!

[DampMongoose]

I wonder what they'd say if he said "ok I won't drive for you this year"

[JHSingo]

Boo. Wish it was more like the old days where drivers drove whatever came their way!

 

Completely agree. This era of wrapping F1 drivers up in cotton wool is absolutely pathetic.

 

If they're truly the best drivers in the world, they should be allowed to prove it with their diversity.

[Radion]

Makes sense for Honda.

[Anja]

We can complain all we want but it makes perfect sense. Why would Honda (and McLaren too, anyway) allow their driver to basically promote their competitors?

[Raziel]

We can complain all we want but it makes perfect sense. Why would Honda (and McLaren too, anyway) allow their driver to basically promote their competitors?

 

X

 

or even worse, why would they risk their highly paid driver getting hurt in other series

[MikeV1987]

It's obvious they want him 100% committed to the Mclaren-Honda project, I am not surprised that they were the ones who blocked that move.

[JHSingo]

X

 

or even worse, why would they risk their highly paid driver getting hurt in other series

 

To be brutally honest, I don't understand this argument.

He could just as easily be hurt and end up missing races through playing tennis, falling down the steps, or (god forbid) a road traffic accident. Do you therefore ban him from playing tennis, walking, or driving a road car? Of course not.

Just one of my gripes that's all. And I don't really understand the 'promoting a competitor' logic even. Honda could easily put some PR spin on it like "hey, look how good our guy is! He can even win here!"

Whatever. Hopefully we'll see Alonso driving at Le Mans in the not too distant future.

[aditya-now]

Kurt Busch might be available ...

Jp

 

If he is not taken down before June....

[aditya-now]

http://blackflag.jal...980435/ pgeorge

 

 

 

Too bad, would have been awesome to watch!

 

Understandable from Honda's side, but it would have been a real treat to see Fernando in a LMP1 Porsche. After all, Alonso is one of the few in the all-time-driver category, and, like some other of the greats it would be fitting to see him in Le Mans and Indianapolis.

 

Great though, that McLaren gave him the freedom (probably well knowing, that Honda would veto it....).

[mclarensmps]

To be brutally honest, I don't understand this argument.

He could just as easily be hurt and end up missing races through playing tennis, falling down the steps, or (god forbid) a road traffic accident. Do you therefore ban him from playing tennis, walking, or driving a road car? Of course not.

Just one of my gripes that's all. And I don't really understand the 'promoting a competitor' logic even. Honda could easily put some PR spin on it like "hey, look how good our guy is! He can even win here!"

Whatever. Hopefully we'll see Alonso driving at Le Mans in the not too distant future.

 

 

I  could just as easily get hurt walking straight down the  middle of a gunfight or a waterpistol fight, but I know which one i'd choose

[George Costanza]

Not too surprised at this.

 

But Fred will be at Le Mans.... I bet by the age of 40.

[AlexLangheck]

Not really a surprise - understandable I suppose. But, still disappointing. F1 living in its own little world.

At least other series let their drivers try other disciplines; look at Dumas: current Pikes Peak winner, has retired from the Dakar, and next week will compete on the Monte.

[wrighty]

Kurt Busch might be available ...

Jp

 

He didn't want anyone to know......i'd lay low for a while if i were you ;)

[Imateria]

http://blackflag.jal...980435/ pgeorge

 

 

 

Too bad, would have been awesome to watch!

That second quote is rubbish, Porsche have always said that they'll consider their GT drivers but not that they'd exclusively pick from them. The fact that they've signed Hulk but are still considering Tandy, Christensen and Mackowieky proves this.

[MichaelPM]

 

Just don't dare turn them into a reality.

[Fatgadget]

Completely agree. This era of wrapping F1 drivers up in cotton wool is absolutely pathetic.

If they're truly the best drivers in the world, they should be allowed to prove it with their diversity.

Well,if the drivers themselves sign a contract that specifically forbids them from participating in other disciplines of sport...who is the big bad wolf there? I think teams are just protecting their considerable investment in the drivers they sign..reason why they molly coddle them these days.The unfortunate case with Jim Clark way back then and relatively recently and less tragically with Robert Kubica cements that standpoint really me thinks.

Edited by Fatgadget, 18 January 2015 - 13:11.

[Talisman]

To be brutally honest, I don't understand this argument.

He could just as easily be hurt and end up missing races through playing tennis, falling down the steps, or (god forbid) a road traffic accident. Do you therefore ban him from playing tennis, walking, or driving a road car? Of course not.

Just one of my gripes that's all. And I don't really understand the 'promoting a competitor' logic even. Honda could easily put some PR spin on it like "hey, look how good our guy is! He can even win here!"

Whatever. Hopefully we'll see Alonso driving at Le Mans in the not too distant future.

 

Post-Kubica I don't think its surprising to see premium drivers banned from driving in other series, I believe they are already given an extensive list of high risk things they can't do anyway to minimise the risk of injury.

[ardbeg]

Completely agree. This era of wrapping F1 drivers up in cotton wool is absolutely pathetic.

 

If they're truly the best drivers in the world, they should be allowed to prove it with their diversity.

Not only to prove their diversity, they should be allowed to drive to keep developing and keep their status as the best drivers. Is there any top athlete that has so few opportunities to actually practice their expertise?

[TecnoRacing]

Not really a surprise - understandable I suppose. But, still disappointing. F1 living in its own little world.

At least other series let their drivers try other disciplines; look at Dumas: current Pikes Peak winner, has retired from the Dakar, and next week will compete on the Monte.

 

All in Porsches though (aside from his Dakar buggy, which is specialized, non-manufacturer vehicle) And Romain, as just one of several drivers is not the centerpiece of the Porsche effort in the same way Alonso is too Honda...

 

Even in the good-old-days of drivers racing in multiple championships, and taking 1-off drives, they were sometimes thwarted by manufacturer conflicts...or sponsors, fuel and tire brands....

[JHSingo]

Post-Kubica I don't think its surprising to see premium drivers banned from driving in other series,

 

I don't disagree with that. It's not at all surprising, sadly.

That's why the prospect of one of F1's best going off to race at Le Mans on a free weekend was such a tantalising prospect - because it is so rare for a modern F1 driver to do that. I guess it was naïve to think it might happen though.

 

My point was more about this argument that 'oh no, they might hurt themselves'. To me it strikes up images of a mother telling their child they can't go and climb that big tree because they might fall out and end up missing school.

[Elba]

No surprise there.

Would have loved to see Fernando au Mans this year but completely understand Honda's decision if in fact it was purely theirs.

 

He'll participate later if that is what he really wants and I'm sure Porsche will show up with a strong line-up anyway

[DampMongoose]

Reminds me of Montoya in F1 who was injured 'playing tennis'. One member of the team asked something like "how fast was he going when he fell off his racquet?"

[pdac]

Saw a program with John Surtees the other day. Reminds me of the situation that occurred with him and Ferrari. The outcome was different, though.

[OvDrone]

Just Honda being Honda.

 

Typical killjoys.

[Nobody]

A bit vested, Kubica would be an example used by insurers etc.

Edited by Nobody, 18 January 2015 - 08:09.

[Jimisgod]

To be honest Kubica was a lesson in what can go wrong if you risk your F1 seat by driving elsewhere.

F1 is a "once in a lifetime" chance and trying to do another series at the same time is like working a dangerous job while on a full scholarship at Harvard. I'm sure he can stroll into Porsche HQ the day he retires from F1.

[kosmos]

It makes perfect sense, if I was Honda I will do the same. Fernando will have plenty of time to drive in Le Mans but maybe not to drive with Webber in the other hand.

[Ferrari_F1_fan_2001]

Insurance companies would have a strong word to say about it.

[RedOne]

I'm glad Alonso is 100% focused on F1. Honda will want this because they are putting in the same commitment! Plenty of time for Le Mans after F1.

[muramasa]

Just Honda being Honda.

 

Typical killjoys.

You're assured that Merc, Ferrari or Renault wouldve said yes?

 

If Alonso indeed had realistic chance to drive LeMans 24 this year and everything depended on either Mclaren and/or Honda then that's disappointing for sure, but hardly surprising. Not a big deal tbh.

Also, in the first place speculative stories like this from AMuS, speedweek as well as some other Italian and Spanish media tend to be quite dubious. Especially about Honda, since Honda's comeback announcement, almost all of rumours they put out turned out to be false.

[Fastcake]

As long as he's driving for a manufacturer-backed team in F1, he's not going to be driving for a different one in Le Mans.

Maybe Alonso should be spending his time convincing Honda, or McLaren for that matter, to enter Le Mans next year...

[pdac]

Just Honda being Honda.

 

Typical killjoys.

 

I guess, actually, it's Alonso that blocked himself. I would imagine that Honda cannot forcibly block him unless there is a clause in the contract, that he signed, to allow them to do that. If there is no such clause then then it's just about them strongly disapproving (maybe with threats of 'consequences') and him voluntarily capitulating.

[tkulla]

No worries, just wait five years and we'll be able to watch Alonso and Button along with Webber in the WEC.

[Brazzers]

No surprises there... McLaren would be the other happy party given their P1 competes directly with Porsche's 918 and LaFerrari... 

 

 

Entirely this was all about PR and brand image for the parties involved. 

[Cyanide]

They pulled off a good move then. Now the hard part will be to keep him there. I doubt he'll be as patient with Honda as he was with Ferrari, especially if they struggle for a couple of years. 

[Jimisgod]

Ferrari struggled for pretty much his whole tenure. At least McLaren had the air of preparing for the arrival of Honda during the last two bad seasons.

[Dmitriy_Guller]

He could just as easily be hurt and end up missing races through playing tennis, falling down the steps, or (god forbid) a road traffic accident. Do you therefore ban him from playing tennis, walking, or driving a road car? Of course not.

If you define "just as easily" as "both activities have a risk of greater than zero", then you have a point.  But that would be a very silly and illogical way to define it.  Not all numbers greater than zero are equal.

Edited by Dmitriy_Guller, 18 January 2015 - 20:16.

[TF110]

We sure Alonso was really looking forward to it, or he said "maybe in a few years"? Honda probably didnt care much for it, but they really going to stop him? It was probably a mutual agreement with him getting a McLaren drive.

[Myrvold]

If you define "just as easily" as "both activities have a risk of greater than zero", then you have a point.  But that would be a very silly and illogical way to define it.  Not all numbers greater than zero are equal.

I do believe there are more injuries in Tennis and Road Car driving than in WEC (if you somehow would be able to compare the % injuries compared to the people doing the activities)

[Brother Fox]

Booooo Honda Boooooooo!!!!

We can complain all we want but it makes perfect sense. Why would Honda (and McLaren too, anyway) allow their driver to basically promote their competitors?

Since when have Honda and Porsche been competitors in the showroom? They are in different games.
Porsche are in the business of selling sportscars and Honda are in the business of selling boring cars.

[WOT]

If you define "just as easily" as "both activities have a risk of greater than zero", then you have a point.  But that would be a very silly and illogical way to define it.  Not all numbers greater than zero are equal.

 

I am sure JHSingo merely selected 3 examples. But when you add up all the things that you do in one day and multiply that by 365, I'm sure the "numbers greater than zero" will more than equal out.

 

I read the other day that someone died from (sparing the gory details) a fork related incident while eating dinner...

[FPV GTHO]

Since when have Honda and Porsche been competitors in the showroom? They are in different games.
Porsche are in the business of selling sportscars and Honda are in the business of selling boring cars.

Honda probably feel differently now they've pulled their finger out of their bum over the NSX

[Dmitriy_Guller]

 

I am sure JHSingo merely selected 3 examples. But when you add up all the things that you do in one day and multiply that by 365, I'm sure the "numbers greater than zero" will more than equal out.

 

I read the other day that someone died from (sparing the gory details) a fork related incident while eating dinner...

 

I'm not so sure.  Let's do some back of the envelope calculations.  The probability of a young male dying is about 0.15% per year.  That's 1.5 deaths out of a 1000.

 

What is the probability of dying in a Le Mans race?  For the last couple of decades, there has been about one death per decade.  There are about 165 drivers participating in a Le Mans race each year.  So, a rough guess of your odds of dying in a single Le Mans race is 1 in 1650, or a probability of 0.06%.  

 

That doesn't seem like a big number, and it isn't, but relatively speaking, the 24 hours you spend racing at Le Mans are 150 times more dangerous than the 24 hours you spend doing your regular activities.  So, no, it's not quite as easy to hurt yourself playing tennis, using the stairs, or driving a road car.

Edited by Dmitriy_Guller, 19 January 2015 - 04:57.

[WOT]

I'm not so sure.  Let's do some back of the envelope calculations.  The probability of a young male dying is about 0.15% per year.  That's 1.5 deaths out of a 1000.

 

What is the probability of dying in a Le Mans race?  For the last couple of decades, there has been about one death per decade.  There are about 165 drivers participating in a Le Mans race each year.  So, a rough guess of your odds of dying in a single Le Mans race is 1 in 1650, or a probability of 0.06%.  

 

That doesn't seem like a big number, and it isn't, but relatively speaking, the 24 hours you spend racing at Le Mans are 150 times more dangerous than the 24 hours you spend doing your regular activities.  So, no, it's not quite as easy to hurt yourself playing tennis, using the stairs, or driving a road car.

 

Math was never my strong suit so I'll take your word for your stats and calcs, but considering what you may do in 24 hours, Le Mans happens once a year, normal every day life happens 365 days a year. That by my math turns your 24 hours of Le Mans being 150 times more dangerous into give or take about half as dangerous.

 

Take care in your every day life... 

[Dmitriy_Guller]

Math was never my strong suit so I'll take your word for your stats and calcs, but considering what you may do in 24 hours, Le Mans happens once a year, normal every day life happens 365 days a year. That by my math turns your 24 hours of Le Mans being 150 times more dangerous into give or take about half as dangerous.

 

Take care in your every day life... 

Okay, but even if you look at it from that angle, racing at Le Mans increases your risk of dying in a given year by 40%.  It's not like you can choose between racing at Le Mans and living an everyday life, every activity and its risks come in addition to living your everyday life.

 

I'm not saying that you shouldn't engage in any risky activities, I'm just saying that you shouldn't engage in sophistry to justify doing them.

[WOT]

I'm not so sure.  Let's do some back of the envelope calculations.  The probability of a young male dying is about 0.15% per year.  That's 1.5 deaths out of a 1000.

 

What is the probability of dying in a Le Mans race?  For the last couple of decades, there has been about one death per decade.  There are about 165 drivers participating in a Le Mans race each year.  So, a rough guess of your odds of dying in a single Le Mans race is 1 in 1650, or a probability of 0.06%.  

 

That doesn't seem like a big number, and it isn't, but relatively speaking, the 24 hours you spend racing at Le Mans are 150 times more dangerous than the 24 hours you spend doing your regular activities.  So, no, it's not quite as easy to hurt yourself playing tennis, using the stairs, or driving a road car.

 

OK. Just re-read your post. Forget the above. As I said math wasn't my strong suit.