Jump to content


Photo
* * * * * 5 votes

Manor / Marussia 2015


  • Please log in to reply
2689 replies to this topic

#1 FullThrottleF1

FullThrottleF1
  • Member

  • 3,449 posts
  • Joined: October 13

Posted 19 January 2015 - 12:40

Apparently the auction on wednesday has been postponed. Reports are saying an investor is trying to save the team.



Advertisement

#2 Imateria

Imateria
  • Member

  • 2,424 posts
  • Joined: January 14

Posted 19 January 2015 - 12:41

More like 13th hour I think.



#3 RedBaron

RedBaron
  • Member

  • 8,584 posts
  • Joined: March 01

Posted 19 January 2015 - 12:49

Apparently the auction on wednesday has been postponed. Reports are saying an investor is trying to save the team.

 

It's cancelled isn't it? Which is a step further than just postponement 



#4 Maustinsj

Maustinsj
  • Member

  • 4,904 posts
  • Joined: February 12

Posted 19 January 2015 - 12:50

http://www.bbc.co.uk...rmula1/30881741



#5 midgrid

midgrid
  • RC Forum Host

  • 10,126 posts
  • Joined: April 09

Posted 19 January 2015 - 13:12

Even if the deal goes through and Marussia are able to compete in the 2015 season, will the MR03s still be fast enough to beat the 107% rule?



#6 Fastcake

Fastcake
  • Member

  • 12,546 posts
  • Joined: April 10

Posted 19 January 2015 - 13:14

That would be incredible news if Marussia/Manor can still make it to Melbourne. But I do wonder how they could actually run for an entire season at such a late hour.

They still have last season's cars, which they apparently will have no problem entering for this year, and presumably most of the race equipment is packed up with the cars in Abu Dhabi. I guess most of the race team could still be reassembled, and things like spare parts could be made by other companies. But Haas has now set up in their base, and almost(?) all of their other assets have been auctioned off. They'll be starting from scratch, with only a couple of months until they have to show up in Bahrain - and that's only if you're still allowed to miss three races.

It'll be a Herculean effort just to trundle around at the back.

#7 wj_gibson

wj_gibson
  • Member

  • 3,919 posts
  • Joined: January 05

Posted 19 January 2015 - 13:17

Even if the deal goes through and Marussia are able to compete in the 2015 season, will the MR03s still be fast enough to beat the 107% rule?

 

Can't remember where I read it but isn't there a theory that the 2015 cars could be anything up to 1.5sec quicker than the 2014 ones? So they'd be in trouble.



#8 dau

dau
  • Member

  • 5,373 posts
  • Joined: March 09

Posted 19 January 2015 - 13:24

Can't remember where I read it but isn't there a theory that the 2015 cars could be anything up to 1.5sec quicker than the 2014 ones? So they'd be in trouble.

They were about 2.5s away from the 107% in their final race last year so they would still make it even then. Unless they run someone much slower than Chilton.



#9 Rob

Rob
  • Member

  • 9,223 posts
  • Joined: February 01

Posted 19 January 2015 - 13:48

Believe it when I see it.



#10 pacificquay

pacificquay
  • Member

  • 6,227 posts
  • Joined: March 07

Posted 19 January 2015 - 13:52

Lets hope it happens. We need at least 20 cars on the grid. 18 looked rubbish. Also having a Marrusia or Caterham benefits the rest of the field, as otherwise Force India or Sauber are last.



#11 SealTheDiffuser

SealTheDiffuser
  • Member

  • 2,416 posts
  • Joined: June 12

Posted 19 January 2015 - 13:53

Lets hope it happens. We need at least 20 cars on the grid. 18 looked rubbish. Also having a Marrusia or Caterham benefits the rest of the field, as otherwise Force India or Sauber are last.

 

Sauber or McLaren.

 

leaves building...


Edited by SealTheDiffuser, 19 January 2015 - 13:54.


#12 balmybaldwin

balmybaldwin
  • Member

  • 2,070 posts
  • Joined: January 14

Posted 19 January 2015 - 14:09

Even if the deal goes through and Marussia are able to compete in the 2015 season, will the MR03s still be fast enough to beat the 107% rule?

Well, the Caterhams are using last years car too, and the MR03 was much better than that



#13 pdac

pdac
  • Member

  • 17,074 posts
  • Joined: February 10

Posted 19 January 2015 - 15:03

What is the motive behind people who say that they are "close to a deal". If they are "close", then there is no deal in place and so nothing has changed.

 

As "Rob" says, above, I will believe it when I see it.



#14 DinocoBlue

DinocoBlue
  • Member

  • 942 posts
  • Joined: November 10

Posted 19 January 2015 - 15:20

It'd be great to see them back on the grid. I wonder if this new investor means they would race under another name, or will they be Manor?



#15 Brazzers

Brazzers
  • Member

  • 1,479 posts
  • Joined: March 14

Posted 19 January 2015 - 15:35

Whoever this investor is, I hope he/she knows Marrussia isn't an investment opportunity but an expenditure with a lot of cash outflows. 



#16 Knot

Knot
  • Member

  • 666 posts
  • Joined: September 06

Posted 19 January 2015 - 15:48

Ah, for Christ's sake. FIA or CVC should step in and shoot this lame assed team and put it out of our misery.



#17 Disgrace

Disgrace
  • Member

  • 31,165 posts
  • Joined: January 10

Posted 19 January 2015 - 16:20

They haven't been treated in any other way since day one. They might as well do away with the pretense.



#18 FerrariV12

FerrariV12
  • Member

  • 934 posts
  • Joined: October 04

Posted 19 January 2015 - 16:28

It'd be great to see them back on the grid. I wonder if this new investor means they would race under another name, or will they be Manor?

 

I would hope Manor, since it's a name with history and meaning in the motorsport world - I remember being disappointed when the Virgin renaming happened. I guess whoever writes the cheques would have the final say though, and at this stage just having them back in any form would be great



#19 Myrvold

Myrvold
  • Member

  • 15,853 posts
  • Joined: December 10

Posted 19 January 2015 - 16:37

Well, yes please! :)



Advertisement

#20 B3ndy

B3ndy
  • Member

  • 162 posts
  • Joined: September 14

Posted 19 January 2015 - 16:46

I really hope this isn't another false dawn, that team deserves a break.

 

It will be a huge effort to get to Oz though. Even assuming they get a special dispensation for running 2014 cars there would be a massive amount of work to get cars that haven't run in a competitive event for months into FP1. I'd be curious to know how it works with Ferrari engines, normally a customer would give back engines after each race for engineering support. With a large outstanding debt I can't see the Scuderia being overly helpful, unless they are the mystery buyer!

 

Still, fingers crossed, if they turn up its a brilliant story.



#21 JHSingo

JHSingo
  • Member

  • 8,930 posts
  • Joined: June 13

Posted 19 January 2015 - 16:51

What's the point? Other than having two extra cars on the grid, it's not like they'll suddenly be challenging for points on a regular basis, is it? In fact, they'll probably be even further behind, especially if they use last year's car, with everyone else presumably having improved.


Edited by JHSingo, 19 January 2015 - 16:52.


#22 Mandzipop

Mandzipop
  • RC Forum Host

  • 5,146 posts
  • Joined: May 09

Posted 19 January 2015 - 16:54

I'm crossing my fingers and toes. I wonder if they'll have to use the facilities in Dinnington.

#23 Fisico54

Fisico54
  • Member

  • 1,008 posts
  • Joined: October 14

Posted 19 January 2015 - 17:30

Ah, for Christ's sake. FIA or CVC should step in and shoot this lame assed team and put it out of our misery.

What a moronic statement, how is the possibility of having more cars, jobs saved etc be anything but a good thing

#24 BullHead

BullHead
  • Member

  • 7,934 posts
  • Joined: May 08

Posted 19 January 2015 - 17:35

Whoever this investor is, I hope he/she knows Marrussia isn't an investment opportunity but an expenditure with a lot of cash outflows. 

 

Indeed, I'm not sure 'investor' is the correct term to use :). Here's hoping for the Manor Boys.



#25 AlanK

AlanK
  • Member

  • 105 posts
  • Joined: April 09

Posted 19 January 2015 - 18:49

What's the point? Other than having two extra cars on the grid, it's not like they'll suddenly be challenging for points on a regular basis, is it? In fact, they'll probably be even further behind, especially if they use last year's car, with everyone else presumably having improved.

Tell Jolyon Palmer there is no point having another team out there. Or all of the junior techs, catering staff, truckies, corporate staff etc



#26 DinocoBlue

DinocoBlue
  • Member

  • 942 posts
  • Joined: November 10

Posted 19 January 2015 - 19:02

If they do get the investment, and are allowed to race with last years car - can they continue to develop a car for '15 or would they have to stick with the MR03 for the rest of the season?



#27 onewingedangel

onewingedangel
  • Member

  • 1,591 posts
  • Joined: January 11

Posted 19 January 2015 - 19:05

With the outstanding debts to Ferrari and McLaren they could try and place drivers in lieu of partial payment. Gut/Mag at Manor? The outstanding debts are likely more than a pay driver would bring, and Ferrari and McLaren would get hardly anything if the team do not continue. The only question would be would there be enough money to pay Ferrari for this years engines? I'd imagine they'd want payment up front.



#28 Fastcake

Fastcake
  • Member

  • 12,546 posts
  • Joined: April 10

Posted 19 January 2015 - 19:25

Ferrari and McLaren would probably be the easiest creditors to deal with. Apart from being more sympathetic to their plight, Bernie could broker some kind of arrangement between the various parties in the paddock to ensure Manor make the grid, as I really don't think he actually does want 18 cars this year.



#29 FullThrottleF1

FullThrottleF1
  • Member

  • 3,449 posts
  • Joined: October 13

Posted 19 January 2015 - 19:27

I wonder why the investor has chosen to save Marussia/Manor rather than Caterham? :confused:



#30 Hans V

Hans V
  • Member

  • 651 posts
  • Joined: August 03

Posted 19 January 2015 - 19:34

Even if there's a 35 million (euros, dollar, pounds or whatever) FOM-purse on the grid in Melbourne, it wouldn't even cover half the company's £60 million debts. Not to mention running costs. Even if they manage to talk Ferrari into extending their £16 million drivetrain debt, what's the point?

Marussia is a complete no-hoper and owe money all over the place, who'd like to do business with these people? Or work for them, assumed they want to get paid? But if they managed to get on the 2015 grid, Timo Glock and Max (?) Chilton, who Marussia owes large sums, should have first pick for the drive. ;)

#31 BRG

BRG
  • Member

  • 25,883 posts
  • Joined: September 99

Posted 19 January 2015 - 20:14

I wonder why the investor has chosen to save Marussia/Manor rather than Caterham? :confused:

Because Caterham have collapsed in a mess of legal actions and recrimination so that no-one seems to know who even owned the mess.  Whereas Marussia ceased trading in an orderly manner which simply needs a (very large) injection of capital to restart it.  If anyone is foolish enough, that is.



#32 l8apex

l8apex
  • Member

  • 556 posts
  • Joined: November 09

Posted 19 January 2015 - 21:11

They already sold their factory and equipment and lost all their employees ... there isn't much left to buy.

 

Seems stupid.  



#33 pdac

pdac
  • Member

  • 17,074 posts
  • Joined: February 10

Posted 19 January 2015 - 21:33

They already sold their factory and equipment and lost all their employees ... there isn't much left to buy.

 

Seems stupid.  

 

This



#34 krapmeister

krapmeister
  • Member

  • 11,543 posts
  • Joined: August 08

Posted 19 January 2015 - 21:41

Hmmm... Lance Stroll just won a race in New Zealand.

#35 Nathan

Nathan
  • Member

  • 6,841 posts
  • Joined: February 00

Posted 19 January 2015 - 22:10

 

how is the possibility of having more cars, jobs saved etc be anything but a good thing           

 

It depends what the extra cars are doing.  Marussia and Caterham had their own little storyline regarding the race to 10th place, so that was interesting.  Marussia also had a 'driver of the future', which added value.

Should Marussia line up in 2015 the likelihood they will be alone at the back racing themselves is almost assured, and I have a hard time imagining anything but paid drivers of no particular note racing.  So in this regard I don't see the value as a fan having the two extra cars.

I advocate lower cost F1, so inevitably that will lead to less jobs.  And I don't watch racing because of the jobs it creates.  Non-factor to me.


Edited by Nathan, 19 January 2015 - 23:33.


#36 JHSingo

JHSingo
  • Member

  • 8,930 posts
  • Joined: June 13

Posted 19 January 2015 - 22:58

Tell Jolyon Palmer there is no point having another team out there. Or all of the junior techs, catering staff, truckies, corporate staff etc

 

I would ask him what the point in trailing around the back of the grid, miles off the pace, in an out of date car, with no chance of scoring any points was, when he could be racing in another championship like IndyCar, yes.

 

Besides, they've made all their staff redundant anyway. My original question remains - what's the point? Two mobile chicanes with most likely pay drivers, yeah, great... :rolleyes:



#37 Spillage

Spillage
  • Member

  • 10,251 posts
  • Joined: May 09

Posted 19 January 2015 - 23:44

I would ask him what the point in trailing around the back of the grid, miles off the pace, in an out of date car, with no chance of scoring any points was, when he could be racing in another championship like IndyCar, yes.

 

Fisichella, Webber and Alonso all began their extremely successful careers in such circumstances. Sutil and Ricciardo too. Even last year Bianchi was looking like a driver heading for the big time before his terrible crash. I'd say it's almost always better for a young driver to be in F1 than not.



#38 InSearchOfThe

InSearchOfThe
  • Member

  • 2,622 posts
  • Joined: June 10

Posted 20 January 2015 - 00:11

The investsor has to be Haas. Right?

 

Maybe it's cheaper to combine teams for 2015, and collect the 35 Million Pounds at the end of the year payout.

Then payoff Ferrari and McLaren and whoever else and start debt free.

Haas' financial support now guarantee's him everything Marussia and Manor own when '15 is over.

Ferrari somehow in the background maybe

Cheaper for all parties?


Edited by InSearchOfThe, 20 January 2015 - 00:47.


#39 rammsteinfan

rammsteinfan
  • Member

  • 124 posts
  • Joined: November 14

Posted 20 January 2015 - 00:39

The investsor has to be Haas. Right?

 

Maybe it's cheaper to combind teams for 2015, and collect the 35 Million Pounds at the end of the year payout.

Then payoff Ferrari and McLaren and whoever else and start debt free.

Haas' financial support now guarantee's him everything Marussia and Manor own when '15 is over.

Ferrari somehow in the background maybe

Cheaper for all parties?

 

 

No It is not Haas. No way. If it would be Haas he would have done earlier, well he wouldn't need it either. Haas has everything to be on the grid this year but they choose to wait a year. I'd rather expect it to be someone like Stroll or Boekhoorn/Peridon. Maybe VW  ;)  :p  :wave:

 

A other possibilty is McLaren. But yeah don't think so.



Advertisement

#40 LORDBYRON

LORDBYRON
  • Member

  • 1,645 posts
  • Joined: May 13

Posted 20 January 2015 - 00:55

That would be incredible news if Marussia/Manor can still make it to Melbourne. But I do wonder how they could actually run for an entire season at such a late hour.

They still have last season's cars, which they apparently will have no problem entering for this year, and presumably most of the race equipment is packed up with the cars in Abu Dhabi. I guess most of the race team could still be reassembled, and things like spare parts could be made by other companies. But Haas has now set up in their base, and almost(?) all of their other assets have been auctioned off. They'll be starting from scratch, with only a couple of months until they have to show up in Bahrain - and that's only if you're still allowed to miss three races.

It'll be a Herculean effort just to trundle around at the back.

I'm not sure they do did hass not buy one ? or was it the 2015 plans

 

As for hass having there base they don't need a base asap as the first few are fly away's  they could get one after the first break but do they need one as there will be no development what so ever other than the odd tweak         IF they even get that far    Selfstore.com would be a ideal sponsor         

 

As for gear and stuff and if they did have access the the 2014 cars they might only need weeks to ship it over from Abu Dhabi

Can't remember where I read it but isn't there a theory that the 2015 cars could be anything up to 1.5sec quicker than the 2014 ones? So they'd be in trouble.

Fia want more cars if  deal is done they will simply be added to the back regardless 

Ah, for Christ's sake. FIA or CVC should step in and shoot this lame assed team and put it out of our misery.

Would be a great PR if FIA or CVC bought them that way the likes of the Jolyon Palmer could get a guaranteed seat to drive for winning there championship

(To simply lol)


Edited by LORDBYRON, 20 January 2015 - 01:21.


#41 Donka

Donka
  • Member

  • 853 posts
  • Joined: February 10

Posted 20 January 2015 - 00:58

No It is not Haas. No way. If it would be Haas he would have done earlier, well he wouldn't need it either. Haas has everything to be on the grid this year but they choose to wait a year. I'd rather expect it to be someone like Stroll or Boekhoorn/Peridon. Maybe VW  ;)  :p  :wave:

 

A other possibilty is McLaren. But yeah don't think so.

 

Haas will not buy/bail them out wholesale.  Did you see how much money they made off Haas selling him most of their equipment and facilities compared to their debt, it was not much.

 

Considering they say this is a complex offer, I imagine Haas is offering a healthy percentage over the fair market value that the cars and track equipment would have been auctioned for on Wednesday, but wants relief from the debt. Ultimately this will be a win for the debtors if he is offering more than market value, and also a win for him as he can learn the ropes and use the old cars while collecting the cash for 10th from the FOM to pay for the year of racing.  

 

Anyhow, I highly suspect whoever is behind this bid is definitely not willing or planning on taking on all of Manor's current debt.  



#42 LORDBYRON

LORDBYRON
  • Member

  • 1,645 posts
  • Joined: May 13

Posted 20 January 2015 - 01:15

Its a good theory but all debt combined plus 2015 operating costs (even pay drivers) would still be in the red 


Edited by LORDBYRON, 20 January 2015 - 01:16.


#43 LORDBYRON

LORDBYRON
  • Member

  • 1,645 posts
  • Joined: May 13

Posted 20 January 2015 - 13:43

it would be better for Marussia if Caterham fail to make it to the grid as Marussia would be guaranteed 10th place in the 2015 WCC and also be entitled to approx £30m from the prize fund for tenth place ! so at the end of 2015 they would have £60  million



#44 B3ndy

B3ndy
  • Member

  • 162 posts
  • Joined: September 14

Posted 20 January 2015 - 16:23

it would be better for Marussia if Caterham fail to make it to the grid as Marussia would be guaranteed 10th place in the 2015 WCC and also be entitled to approx £30m from the prize fund for tenth place ! so at the end of 2015 they would have £60  million

 

Indeed and thats why I think the point made above about Hass might not be too crazy. Getting a head start and some prize money before you begin is a nice way to break into F1.

 

However I doubt the complexities of doing a deal with creditors is something Hass really want to get into, they seem a smart bunch and made a calculated decision to wait.

 

Lets wait and see.



#45 Donka

Donka
  • Member

  • 853 posts
  • Joined: February 10

Posted 20 January 2015 - 17:43

Well it looks like I may have been right about it being Haas and at a much lower price than their current debt.

 

TheJudge13 wrote this piece:

 

Haas set to buy Marussia

 

On Monday, TJ13 reported that the impending auction of the vital equipment to build a Formula One car from the defunct Marussia team had been suspended by the administrators.

 

There are now rumours that Gene Haas is set to buy or invest in the stricken Marussia team. Further that he has already acquired their factory and is in negotiations to buy the intellectual property for the partly developed 2015 Marussia F1 car.

 

Clearly the lure of $65m dollars and some existing F1 technology and engineers could be a great opportunity for the American as he launches into unchartered territory to build a Formula One racing car.

 

Around half of Marussia’s debt was to Ferrari, who would also benefit from a revival of the ex-Russian owned team. At present there will be just four cars running in 2015 with Ferrari engines, whilst Mercedes have eight.

 

With Ferrari trying to play catch-up on the engine front, the extra data from another two cars running their development and 2015 engines.

 

Were Ferrari to write of their debt and the creditors agree 50 cents on the dollar – which is far more than many of them could have hoped for prior to this week – Haas could acquire Marussia for around $10m.

 

Given the prize money earned by Jules Bianchi which would be paid in monthly instalments from March to the end of the season, on the condition Marussia have a team attending the Formula One events. Haas would then appear to have around half the budget required to run an entity managed by Manor Racing for half a season.

 

Were Ferrari to oblige by providing the engines, the $25m Haas would need to find to see out the year and develop the 2016 car is peanuts compared to doing this from scratch.

 

When asked yesterday by the BBC as to how high his level of confidence was that a deal could be done to revive his team, John Booth replied, “Pretty high.”

 

Marussia’s cars are reported to be currently stranded in Abu Dhabi following a last dirch effort to make the grid for the final race of the 2014 season. Booth remarked it would be a “fairly straightforward job” to prepare them for Melbourne.

 

This would require agreement from the other teams and a ruling from the FIA that Marussia can run their 2014 cars.

 

If Haas pulls this off, he would in effect be acquiring the services of John Booth, Graham Lowden and a group of dedicated and skilled racers and engineers – which may be the greatest asset Haas could possibly lay his hands on, to launch his Formula One dream.



#46 LORDBYRON

LORDBYRON
  • Member

  • 1,645 posts
  • Joined: May 13

Posted 20 January 2015 - 18:21

Well it looks like I may have been right about it being Haas and at a much lower price than their current debt.

 

TheJudge13 wrote this piece:

TJ13 don't make me laugh lol he has no credit in my book he is simply playing the odds game 



#47 GhostR

GhostR
  • Member

  • 3,782 posts
  • Joined: September 03

Posted 20 January 2015 - 18:40

TJ13 built a reputation on the back of being right about the Renault power unit being in big trouble this time last year. They then lost that reputation following a year's worth of less-than-accurate reporting and the fact that they massively over-stated the extent of the problem Renault had.

 

I can see where the dots have been connected here, however it would be a massive u-turn on Haas' part if he is the mystery investor. Especially given he can acquire everything he'd want from Marussia's carcass without taking on any of the debt simply by buying it at auction. He doesn't need Marussia / Manor's grid slot, and to be honest I doubt the numbers stack up for Haas in terms of buying the team to acquire the prize money. I reckon if it was Haas, we would have heard about it sooner and none of the Marussia asset auctions would have gone ahead.

 

I'd suggest Haas being the buyer is about as likely as Ferrari buying the team to run similar to how RBR have STR.

 

Happy to eat crow if I'm wrong though ... but I just don't see it being Haas. He's been playing the game absolutely right so far, being patient and taking his time to maximise his chances. Rushing into buying Marussia/Manor just doesn't fit with the way he's been doing things so far.



#48 LORDBYRON

LORDBYRON
  • Member

  • 1,645 posts
  • Joined: May 13

Posted 20 January 2015 - 18:51

If Ferrari bought the team there debt would be out of the equation. But running a team to pocket £60 million is insane it will cost near to a million per race  

 

But hey that's how businesses work rack them up with debt take wage via that then it goes bust  We may well be having deja view next December 


Edited by LORDBYRON, 20 January 2015 - 18:58.


#49 CoolBreeze

CoolBreeze
  • Member

  • 2,440 posts
  • Joined: January 12

Posted 21 January 2015 - 06:04

For what? 10-15 years ago, backmarkers were important in giving proper talented drivers a shot in F1. 

 

These days, they struggle, and as a result, they rely on pay drivers with hardly any talent, like Loldonado. 



#50 teejay

teejay
  • Member

  • 6,129 posts
  • Joined: May 09

Posted 21 January 2015 - 08:09

11th hour, but the wrong month and year