47 replies to this topic

[D.M.N.]

https://twitter.com/...479758288936960
 

Ian Parkes ‏@ianparkesf1  4m4 minutes ago

The races in Oz, Mal, Chn, Jpn and Rus will start 1 hour earlier this year. Follows recommendation of FIA Accident Panel after Bianchi crash

[FerrariV12]

A step in the right direction, I might have more of a chance of catching the Australian and Japanese races live now.

[Fastcake]

Australia and Japan were still on too early anyway, so it doesn't really make a difference there.

I've actually wondered why, for Melbourne at least, they don't just move the start time the other way and put the race on earlier in the morning. You'd avoid any light problems while keeping a somewhat better timeslot for Europe.

[midgrid]

Australia and Japan were still on too early anyway, so it doesn't really make a difference there.

I've actually wondered why, for Melbourne at least, they don't just move the start time the other way and put the race on earlier in the morning. You'd avoid any light problems while keeping a somewhat better timeslot for Europe.

I quite like getting up early in the morning to watch the first race of the season.  After almost twenty years of following the sport, it's something of a tradition by now.

 

Plus having the race on in the late evening (UK timezone) would clash with the Formula E race in Miami this year.

[03011969]

I quite like getting up early in the morning to watch the first race of the season.  After almost twenty years of following the sport, it's something of a tradition by now.

 

Plus having the race on in the late evening (UK timezone) would clash with the Formula E race in Miami this year.

Quite. Always enjoy setting the alarm for the first race of the season - the earlier the better!

[kimster89]

What are the new times in CET?

[blackhand2010]

A tacit admission that Bernie's chasing of European viewers (despite dropping European circuits) compromised safety.

[Elba]

Australia and Japan were still on too early anyway, so it doesn't really make a difference there.

I've actually wondered why, for Melbourne at least, they don't just move the start time the other way and put the race on earlier in the morning. You'd avoid any light problems while keeping a somewhat better timeslot for Europe.

Me too I value my Sunday morning sleep-in too much so always watch Australia, China and Japan delayed. Now Malaysia will be added to that list again.

 

This will imo increase the pressure on promotors to come up with facilities that allow for night races or change the start of the year to a track in a more convenient timezone. It's rather silly to have the first 3 races of the season at stupid-o-clock CET

[FerrariV12]

I've actually wondered why, for Melbourne at least, they don't just move the start time the other way and put the race on earlier in the morning. You'd avoid any light problems while keeping a somewhat better timeslot for Europe.

 

That'd be perfect actually, I miss my old tradition of staying up for the Australian and Japanese races. Actually going to bed then getting up at stupid o'clock on one of only two lie-in days of the week is no fun.

 

So this move makes it easier to stay up for, but still not as good as it used to be.

 

Either way, at least I have round the clock Le Mans coverage as a sort of replacement these days.

[SealTheDiffuser]

Me too I value my Sunday morning sleep-in too much so always watch Australia, China and Japan delayed. Now Malaysia will be added to that list again.

 

This will imo increase the pressure on promotors to come up with facilities that allow for night races or change the start of the year to a track in a more convenient timezone. It's rather silly to have the first 3 races of the season at stupid-o-clock CET

 

Australia, you watch delayed...

[HoldenRT]

It's a shame that it took a crash as serious as Bianchi's in order for them to wake up.  This has been an issue for tracks like Sepang every season, and even in Melbourne in recent years, what made it worse in Suzuka was that there was advanced warning ahead of time, that a typhoon would be heading towards the circuit.  Increasing the risk, almost to the point where it was certain.  They pretty much had certain warning that it'd be rain/light/wind affected and went ahead anyway and didn't change anything.

 

There were some of us here talking about it as early as Monday that week, and by Wednesday or Thursday it was pretty clear that it was following it's projected trajectory and would be heading close to the circuit.  Not the typhoon itself, but the rain and winds that are the byproduct of it.  They spoke about moving it forward and then didn't (memories of Indy 2005 in terms of the lack of action and cooperation from everyone).  As they went out on the warmup lap, the Sky commentators said someone along the lines of.. "why didn't they start the race earlier?" but it was already too late by then.

 

It's a shame that it took a major accident like Bianchi's in order for them to look into this.  It leaves a bitter taste.  This has already happened in Sepang before, and then the next year they went and did the same thing again.

 

On the one hand, they are too conservative with wet races and pretty much never let them use full wet tyres anymore.  On the other hand, they run certain races too close to sunset and it's just asking for trouble.  The really sad thing is that Suzuka had been a very good (and safe) race up until Jules' accident.  I'm not saying the light was the sole factor in the crash, but just that they have been flirting with danger for years on these overseas tracks and the start times.  An hour isn't a huge difference but it's a start.

 

On a final note, I feel sorry for the people that.. all they can see in this news story is the hours of your sleep.

[Flamini]

What are the new times in CET?

 

Australian GP 6AM CET

Malaysian GP 9AM CET

China GP 8AM CET

 

(based on last year minus one hour)

[BullHead]

Good idea. A lot have said for years that moving them to later hours was a daft idea. Less chance of shortened races. For Malaysia especially it gives a better chance of finishing before the monsoon hour

[P123]

Common sense.  I was never convinced any of the times were more suitable for Euro audiences;  and do we know if they ever actually helped with TV viewership?  Poor promotion and organization led to them being put on at unsuitable hours for their location.

[sportyskells]

it looks like 1st GP i have to play avoid the results until I see a full re run, I wonder what time Sky Sports is planning a re-run of 1st GP, no such headaches with rest of time (due to fact that BBC will show Japan and that in turn triggers a record plus normally up in time for Sepang)

[JHSingo]

I haven't read the recommendations of the panel, so bear with me, but what is the reasoning behind this? Is it just to reduce the possibility of poor visibility towards the end of races?
 

Edited by JHSingo, 20 January 2015 - 14:10.

[Afterburner]

Psh, you don't know 'hardcore' until you stay up to 5:45 to catch the end of a rain-soaked Korean or Chinese GP--podium ceremony, interviews, and all. DVRing a few races out of the year isn't going to kill you.

 

I don't envy those on West-Coast US, though--catching races live out there requires having a night job, insomnia, or a complete disregard for the effects of sleep deprivation.

[uffen]

I often wondered why Bernie bothered to tinker with race start times when most everyone I know records the race if it is on too early or too late. I say let the race start when it is best for the local, paying public.

[muramasa]

Change for good direction.

But ideally Suzuka needs to start at 1300, for logistics reasons as much as safety / sunset time reasons. Suzuka Circuit is located in remote and rural area, so most people get to the circuit by taking local trains and then bus/walk from the nearest stations. Maybe less of an issue for OZ, China and Malaysia in that aspect, but for Suzuka, ever since start time was moved to 1500, spectators were having more difficulty as transportation that was already a mess turned to be even messier, and the circuit suffering from turnout getting less and less every year (many of those living far gave up coming to circuit due to late finish time). Well 1300 start time for Suzuka will never happen again, but even just one hour makes huge difference to make things easier for audiences.

[Button4life]

So I'll watch a grand prix at 6 AM, great....

[pacificquay]

Surely everyone watches every race live regardless of start time?

 

Not the same otherwise.

[loki0420]

Good stuff! Here in Russia i used to watch it at 6 a.m. most of the time and never had a thought of not watching it live. But after all i am watching all the practices at the start of the year anyway. The only problem is you have to take care about beer the day before. First race is quite an event in my life whatever the time its happening.

[Elba]

Australia, you watch delayed...

Lol true but in my defense I've watched the start of the season live for 20+ years nowadays I just value my Sunday sleep in more 

 

I often wondered why Bernie bothered to tinker with race start times when most everyone I know records the race if it is on too early or too late. I say let the race start when it is best for the local, paying public.

From a fan's pov you're quite right but Bernie's clients are the TV networks and the European ones prefer to show the race (and their adds) live to a large audience something that isn't going to happen at stupid-o-clock CET. 

 

I wonder how long it will take when the proposal pops up again not to start the season in Australia next year or to make Sepang a night race?

[jonpollak]

On a final note, I feel sorry for the people that.. all they can see in this news story is the hours of your sleep.

Soft Sided, Self Important, Motoring Infidels !!!!

I cast permanent insomnia on all of them.

Jp

[jonpollak]

I don't envy those on West-Coast US, though--catching races live out there requires having a night job, insomnia, or a complete disregard for the effects of sleep deprivation.

 

 

Actually the changes to these races, outside of Russia, play into the Pacific time pretty well

I know it will be good for the bars I go to as they can drain my money better than when friggin Ice Hockey or such pablum is on

 

 9PM PST- Australia => 05:00 UK - Sky on-air from 03:30 to 08:15
12AM PST- Malaysia => 08:00 UK - Sky on-air from 06:30 to 11:15 <- BST begins
11PM PST - China => 07:00 UK - Sky on-air from 05:30 to 10:15
10PM PST- Japan => 06:00 UK - Sky on-air from 04:30 to 09:15
 4AM- Russia => 12:00 UK - Sky on-air from 10:30 to 15:15

 

Jp
 

[sopa]

I can relate to some thoughts here. Waking up early for the season opener has felt perhaps even somewhat romantic. Don't have to wait for tension till mid-day. Open your tired eyes and immediately see the lights go out for racing! In the most exciting moment of the year, race No1, the Australian GP, to see the pecking order, which shakes up from sleep properly!

 

Of course if it is somewhere right in the middle of night, like 3 AM, it is annoying (then it's better to stay up than to go to sleep), but 6 AM is okay.

[Sheepmachine]

I think it's a good thing that they are starting them a bit earlier, if it makes it safer I'm all for it. With regards to Aus being earlier it's not that big of a deal personally (I've never watched it live but I have watched all the others live at some point or another. )

Edited by Sheepmachine, 20 January 2015 - 16:35.

[khatibrifath]

There might be a difference in opinion......but starting races earlier doesnt make sense.........these highly paid f1 superstars need to cope with low light changing weather condition......this is what f1 should be......each and every part of the racing should be tricky.....definitely we must give preference to the safety but that should include improving track facilities rather than changing start time........if this continues i dont see any wet weather races coming up.......i think if any more accidents happen fia will bring the idea of building indoor stadiums.......frankly speaking f1 has lost its way completely.........

[LORDBYRON]

Bernie is pushing for more night races expect to see more when what ever GP circuit gets there contract renewed or dropped from the calender 

[sennafan24]

 Open your tired eyes and immediately see the lights go out for racing! 

I can't do that.

 

Usually I either stay up all night (watching UFC/Boxing, or occasionally wandering in from a nightclub). Or, I set my alarm for an hour before the start, then have a workout and a wash to wake my body up. I once tried waking up a few seconds before the start of a GP (China 2012 I believe). I could barely keep my eyes open throughout the race. 

 

I have slept through my alarm on several occasions when races have been on early, or just not been bothered to get up. Luckily, there is a UFC show on the night before the Australian GP, so it looks like I will pull another all-nighter, and sleep through Sunday 

 

Ethically, moving the races an hour forward is the correct move. So, I applaud them for doing so 

[Nonesuch]

Australian GP 6AM CET

Malaysian GP 9AM CET

China GP 8AM CET

 

(based on last year minus one hour)

 

The hours are, at least based on Autosport's overview, correct - but only the Australian time is CET.

 

CEST will come into effect on March 29th, the day of the Malaysian Grand Prix.

 

In other words; 06:00 CET for Australia, 09:00 CEST (08:00 CET) for Malaysia and 08:00 CEST (07:00 CET) for China.

[TomNokoe]

I love early races.

5AM Australia still feels too late, 4AM would be proper hardcore, but alas!

[sabjit]

Australia is gonna hurt. Mind it was probably the circuit that needed it most.

[Coral]

This is a good idea. I love the early races, it feels kind of "special" to be watching F1 very early in the morning. I always get up to watch the early races...I don't sleep anyway when I know F1 is on. Sometimes I go back to bed in the afternoon however if the race has been particularly contentious then I am usually to be found on this forum...

[SlickMick]

https://twitter.com/...479758288936960
 
Ian Parkes ‏@ianparkesf1  4m4 minutes ago
The races in Oz, Mal, Chn, Jpn and Rus will start 1 hour earlier this year. Follows recommendation of FIA Accident Panel after Bianchi crash

Might be wrong but I thought the start time was not considered by the panel to be a factor, though weirdly, visibility was. As I say I might be wrong.

It's a shame that it took a crash as serious as Bianchi's in order for them to wake up.  This has been an issue for tracks like Sepang every season, and even in Melbourne in recent years, what made it worse in Suzuka was that there was advanced warning ahead of time, that a typhoon would be heading towards the circuit.  Increasing the risk, almost to the point where it was certain.  They pretty much had certain warning that it'd be rain/light/wind affected and went ahead anyway and didn't change anything.
 
There were some of us here talking about it as early as Monday that week, and by Wednesday or Thursday it was pretty clear that it was following it's projected trajectory and would be heading close to the circuit.  Not the typhoon itself, but the rain and winds that are the byproduct of it.  They spoke about moving it forward and then didn't (memories of Indy 2005 in terms of the lack of action and cooperation from everyone).  As they went out on the warmup lap, the Sky commentators said someone along the lines of.. "why didn't they start the race earlier?" but it was already too late by then.
 
It's a shame that it took a major accident like Bianchi's in order for them to look into this.  It leaves a bitter taste.  This has already happened in Sepang before, and then the next year they went and did the same thing again.
 
On the one hand, they are too conservative with wet races and pretty much never let them use full wet tyres anymore.  On the other hand, they run certain races too close to sunset and it's just asking for trouble.  The really sad thing is that Suzuka had been a very good (and safe) race up until Jules' accident.  I'm not saying the light was the sole factor in the crash, but just that they have been flirting with danger for years on these overseas tracks and the start times.  An hour isn't a huge difference but it's a start.
 
On a final note, I feel sorry for the people that.. all they can see in this news story is the hours of your sleep.

Lots of use of the word "they". Honda as promoters wouldn't play ball and the FIA, who could have stepped in and overruled on safety grounds, at the inconvenience of the spectators going to the track, decided to say it wasn't their call due to not wanting to upset the broadcasters.

Change for good direction.
But ideally Suzuka needs to start at 1300, for logistics reasons as much as safety / sunset time reasons. Suzuka Circuit is located in remote and rural area, so most people get to the circuit by taking local trains and then bus/walk from the nearest stations. Maybe less of an issue for OZ, China and Malaysia in that aspect, but for Suzuka, ever since start time was moved to 1500, spectators were having more difficulty as transportation that was already a mess turned to be even messier, and the circuit suffering from turnout getting less and less every year (many of those living far gave up coming to circuit due to late finish time). Well 1300 start time for Suzuka will never happen again, but even just one hour makes huge difference to make things easier for audiences.

With respect, I thought you were arguing at the time that local fans would have logistical/transport problems if the race (and preceding events) were brought forward. Not saying you supported the decision to leave it as scheduled because, as Holden pointed out, many of us were discussing that exact scenario for many days before the Sunday.

As for the sleep issue - I don't care. I stay up all night because there's no way I'm getting out of bed that early on a Sunday :-) The only problem is finding a drinking hole with accommodating bar staff.

[Nathan]

/enterstypicalF1fanmode

 

 It should be an hour and ten minutes earlier!! FIA ****ed up again. Bernie just wants more money  

Edited by Nathan, 20 January 2015 - 20:14.

[Grayson]

Aside from the obvious safety and logistics benefits, I'm pretty chuffed about Australia moving an hour forward.

 

Staying up all night to watch the first race of the season is a very fond memory from my late teens and early 20s, and a 5:00 AM start is just on the right side of the line where I can repeat that experience rather than go to sleep and set my alarm stupidly early!

[BRG]

Load of nonsense.  Race organisers should be free to select their race timing according to whatever local factors apply.

 

And to link it being a safety feature to avoid another Bianchi incident is just rubbish.

[Fastcake]

Me too I value my Sunday morning sleep-in too much so always watch Australia, China and Japan delayed. Now Malaysia will be added to that list again.

 

This will imo increase the pressure on promotors to come up with facilities that allow for night races or change the start of the year to a track in a more convenient timezone. It's rather silly to have the first 3 races of the season at stupid-o-clock CET

 

I do think that the long term aim is to hold more races at night or early evening, and imposing a more uniform start time, inasmuch as is possible. The promotional benefits of having a championship with a fixed start to time for all of its events are fairly obvious.

[STRFerrari4Ever]

I quite like getting up early in the morning to watch the first race of the season.  After almost twenty years of following the sport, it's something of a tradition by now.

 

Plus having the race on in the late evening (UK timezone) would clash with the Formula E race in Miami this year.

 

 

Quite. Always enjoy setting the alarm for the first race of the season - the earlier the better!

 

Totally agree with both of these. That feeling of waking up at silly o'clock for the first race of the season, all the excitement and anticipation and no one to disturb or distract you, since they're all fast asleep.

 

Honestly I didn't even wake up for World Cup games that much when the tournament was in Korea/Japan in 2002. F1 is the only sport I'll wake up for at those very early hours.

[Disgrace]

And to link it being a safety feature to avoid another Bianchi incident is just rubbish.

 

Then why haven't race times been pushed forward in the past, say before this season? The well established trend is that race starts have been getting later in the Eastern hemisphere in order to cater to Europe. What changed, if not the Bianchi crash?

 

Recommendation four of the FIA's own crash report:

 

4-hour Rule:

 

Article 5.3 of the F1 Sporting Regulations states that:

 

However, should the race be suspended (see Article 41) the length of the suspension will be added to this period up to a maximum total race time of four hours.

 

It is proposed that a regulation or guideline be established such that the Start time of an event shall not be less than 4 hours before either sunset or dusk, except in the case of night races.

 

It is also recommended that the F1 Calendar is reviewed in order to avoid, where possible, races taking place during local rainy seasons.

 

Please explain why this report is "just rubbish."

[muramasa]

With respect, I thought you were arguing at the time that local fans would have logistical/transport problems if the race (and preceding events) were brought forward. Not saying you supported the decision to leave it as scheduled because, as Holden pointed out, many of us were discussing that exact scenario for many days before the Sunday.
 

I've always said that start time for Suzuka (and other Asia/Pacific races) should be moved forward, in general when subject like this came up.

What I might have said is that there might be some people who scheduled to arrive at the circuit at like 1400 or 1430 and could not change for whatever reasons. Just cannot say there was no such people can you. Btw some reports/stories are utterly wrong, like you cannot change/cancel train ticket in Japan, or Suzuka worried/feared refund or compensation. You can cancel/change your trip (well, of course), and Suzuka doesnt need to refund for the event schedule change and cancellation for unexpected and unavoidable reasons (manifested in terms and condition that purchasers agree with when buying. should be same for any venues). 

As for last year's Suzuka, there was never a warning for severe weather for Sunday. Light-normal rain had always been predicted for Sun, typhoon was never a threat for Sun, only normal rain, so risk/chance for rain is just same as any other normal rains, so the weather forecast could not be a reason for schedule change for that particular occasion. That's what I meant. I mean, you have to change schedule every time there was any rain prediction ahead for any circuit. It was simply media hyperbole cos too much excited about "super typhoon" and not used to typhoon and how to interpret it and prediction info, and misinformed by unreliable forecast sources (not accusing normal people, just that media could do better job at it). Typhoon was like 800km far from Suzuka at race time, just as had been predicted. Rain wasnt strong except only briefly shortly before the start, also no wind at all. Even at midnight on Sun way past 12 oclock when I went to bed, it was still very quiet with no wind and no or little rain. Typhoon sped up, significantly weakening, and passed nearby on Monday morning, just as predicted, causing no severe damage/disruption, only some delays in transportations incl. flight (some F1 mechanics on twitter posted pics of them sun-bathing on top of Chubu airport building waiting for their flights that were delayed like 6 hours). 

Rain/sunset time / visibility have played a role in Bianchi's crash tho, it was surely one of factors affected decision making in organizer, visibility for drivers and eventually the outcome, but the cause there was long time practice of tractor going out on track and yellow flag procedure as well as race control's questionable decision. Tractors and marshalls coming out on track and collecting stricken cars while other cars blitz passing nearby has been common sighting for many years and many people been voicing concern.

I'd now think tho that Suzuka could actively have asked for schedule change and use it as leverage for soliciting moving up start time for future races..also I'd agree with anything that would bring healthy Bianchi back....but that's hindsight.

[teejay]

Just means I will watch Aus and Malaysia at 2pm instead of 3pm ... problem eurofolk?

 

[BRG]

 

Please explain why this report is "just rubbish."

Bianchi didn't crash because of the time of day.  

 

Of course race organisers should be able to be flexible, both in general and on the day/weekend in response to particular circumstances such as typhoons or whatever.  Using poor Bianchi as an excuse is simply distasteful.

[SlickMick]

I've always said that start time for Suzuka (and other Asia/Pacific races) should be moved forward, in general when subject like this came up.
What I might have said is that there might be some people who scheduled to arrive at the circuit at like 1400 or 1430 and could not change for whatever reasons. Just cannot say there was no such people can you. Btw some reports/stories are utterly wrong, like you cannot change/cancel train ticket in Japan, or Suzuka worried/feared refund or compensation. You can cancel/change your trip (well, of course), and Suzuka doesnt need to refund for the event schedule change and cancellation for unexpected and unavoidable reasons (manifested in terms and condition that purchasers agree with when buying. should be same for any venues). 
As for last year's Suzuka, there was never a warning for severe weather for Sunday. Light-normal rain had always been predicted for Sun, typhoon was never a threat for Sun, only normal rain, so risk/chance for rain is just same as any other normal rains, so the weather forecast could not be a reason for schedule change for that particular occasion. That's what I meant. I mean, you have to change schedule every time there was any rain prediction ahead for any circuit. It was simply media hyperbole cos too much excited about "super typhoon" and not used to typhoon and how to interpret it and prediction info, and misinformed by unreliable forecast sources (not accusing normal people, just that media could do better job at it). Typhoon was like 800km far from Suzuka at race time, just as had been predicted. Rain wasnt strong except only briefly shortly before the start, also no wind at all. Even at midnight on Sun way past 12 oclock when I went to bed, it was still very quiet with no wind and no or little rain. Typhoon sped up, significantly weakening, and passed nearby on Monday morning, just as predicted, causing no severe damage/disruption, only some delays in transportations incl. flight (some F1 mechanics on twitter posted pics of them sun-bathing on top of Chubu airport building waiting for their flights that were delayed like 6 hours). 
Rain/sunset time / visibility have played a role in Bianchi's crash tho, it was surely one of factors affected decision making in organizer, visibility for drivers and eventually the outcome, but the cause there was long time practice of tractor going out on track and yellow flag procedure as well as race control's questionable decision. Tractors and marshalls coming out on track and collecting stricken cars while other cars blitz passing nearby has been common sighting for many years and many people been voicing concern.
I'd now think tho that Suzuka could actively have asked for schedule change and use it as leverage for soliciting moving up start time for future races..also I'd agree with anything that would bring healthy Bianchi back....but that's hindsight.

Thank you for the clarification.

[sopa]

I can't do that.

 

Usually I either stay up all night (watching UFC/Boxing, or occasionally wandering in from a nightclub). Or, I set my alarm for an hour before the start, then have a workout and a wash to wake my body up. I once tried waking up a few seconds before the start of a GP (China 2012 I believe). I could barely keep my eyes open throughout the race. 

 

I have slept through my alarm on several occasions when races have been on early, or just not been bothered to get up. Luckily, there is a UFC show on the night before the Australian GP, so it looks like I will pull another all-nighter, and sleep through Sunday 

 

Ethically, moving the races an hour forward is the correct move. So, I applaud them for doing so 

 

 

I remember the 2002 Australian Grand Prix start. Alarm clock. Very sleepy. Turn on TV. Still struggling to understand, what is going on. Lights go out. And then BANG. Cars flying everywhere. "Oh what the hell was this?" while brain is still trying to engage with the world realities.

 

E: I remember the 2001 on that front as well. I think I missed the start on that one. Because when I turned on TV, I saw Villeneuve flying into the fence...

Edited by sopa, 22 January 2015 - 17:57.

[loki]

Don't none of y'all own a DVR?

[AlexLangheck]

I'm pretty sure the Australian GP has started earlier than 6AM - I seem to remember the final Adelaide race starting at either 3/4 AM, and the first Melbourne GP a similar time.
Put the race on at a time that suits the locals....

And as for more night races....er, no thanks. To me, night means pitch black with only the car headlights plus a lamp-pod to see ahead - not a whole load of floodlights.