65 replies to this topic

[HoldenRT]

In the short term McLaren just walked away from the best engine in F1.

 

Hard to comment on Ferrari's pace.  I thought they looked pretty good in the winter last season.  It's very deceiving, but you can expect all the 'good' teams in F1 to inch closer to Merc as time goes on, both in terms of engine and chassis.

[Arry2k]

Voted Vettel for both.

Ignoring the 'relative' pace between the two cars at present, I think that Ferrari are further ahead of McLaren in the team restructure/rebuilding curve, especially considering that McLaren have a new engine partner in Honda who, let's face it, have a comparative mountain to climb to fully understand the potential of their power unit. Perhaps the Honda PU has ultimately the greater development potential than the Ferrari PU, but in the short term Ferrari are ahead and are likely to be in contention for race wins sooner than McLaren.

Considering the WDC, given where McLaren Honda are in the 'curve' I suspect that if they do peak then that will simply have come too late for Alonso and, as sad as it is being an Alonso fan, the boat for a third WDC has already sailed. The curve and youth are on Vettel's side.

[HP]

Can I have a poll option 'it depends on the car?'

Otherwise it's an impossible question to answer rationally. It's simply down to which driver you like most, so a popularity contest which Alonso will win because the majority reckon Vettel only succeeded because of Newey. I think that's all the bases covered. There aren't that many anyway.

/thread?

The majority so far voted for Vettel.

 

Even if it's car dependent, I'm not surprised how the poll so far has been going, And it's not because I favor Vettel over Alonso and voted for him.

Edited by HP, 04 February 2015 - 01:14.

[aramos]

The thing that makes me tend to learn towards Alonso is that all of Vettel's success came from a certain situation, being the team leader in a dominant car next to Mark Webber who was unable to challenge him. The second they mixed that situation up he didn't seem that fantastic. 

 

While Alonso has shown his ability in a wide range of teams against a wide range of team mates. Taking victory for 3 different teams and showing his superiority against half the grid. I'm confident that he can beat whoever they throw at him, while Vettel may end up to "The next Ricciardo" or whatever and find himself as the support driver. 

[George Costanza]

Fernando Alonso. There is no doubt about that.

[CoolBreeze]

Vettel. 

 

Alonso will probably crack again, should Button start beating him..

[MP430]

Interesting times ahead.

At the moment it would appear that Fernando's leap to McLaren was premature. Maybe he should have waited to see if Allison could work his Lotus magic on the Ferrari.

Reminds me of Honda leaving F1 and not waiting to see what Ross Brawn could accomplish with a year as team leader under his belt.

I know there was more to the departures in both cases but it still feels familiar some how.

[Jimisgod]

Interesting times ahead.
At the moment it would appear that Fernando's leap to McLaren was premature. Maybe he should have waited to see if Allison could work his Lotus magic on the Ferrari.
Reminds me of Honda leaving F1 and not waiting to see what Ross Brawn could accomplish with a year as team leader under his belt.
I know there was more to the departures in both cases but it still feels familiar some how.

It feels more like the movements of Button and Hamilton when they joined/left McLaren. Had Jenson stayed at Brawn/Mercedes long term he would have been champion last year (probably) because Hamilton wouldn't have been as likely to leave McLaren. However Button moved to McLaren, who had a worse year in 2009, but the team looked better for the immediate future.

I think McLaren is the more potent team for the next seasons after 2015, the car "looks" the best aerodynamically. There was no guarantee the toxic culture hadn't affected this year's Ferrari.

[aramos]

I think McLaren is the more potent team for the next seasons after 2015, the car "looks" the best aerodynamically. There was no guarantee the toxic culture hadn't affected this year's Ferrari.

 

I'm certainly not at all convinced by their testing pace so far. It feels to me like glory runs.

[MP430]

It feels more like the movements of Button and Hamilton when they joined/left McLaren. Had Jenson stayed at Brawn/Mercedes long term he would have been champion last year (probably) because Hamilton wouldn't have been as likely to leave McLaren. However Button moved to McLaren, who had a worse year in 2009, but the team looked better for the immediate future.

I think McLaren is the more potent team for the next seasons after 2015, the car "looks" the best aerodynamically. There was no guarantee the toxic culture hadn't affected this year's Ferrari.

 

 

I disagree with you on Lewis staying at McLaren. Lauda wanted him so bad it would have happened regardless of Button had he stayed with Brawn/Mercedes.

 

I dunno about potent but if its potential then yeah McLaren Honda hands down.

 

I'm hoping for a motor as strong as the RA005E 

[prty]

No one will assume that it's a superhuman driver outperforming the poor car and team.

Well, because he isn't.

[Gorma]

How did this turn into a Button/Hamilton discussion?

[aditya-now]

Which begins a "Vettel can only win if his car's perfect" argument.  We don't have any facts about the racing ability of either car at this point, so it will become a popularity contest.

 

Ferrari is a known quantity and does not look bad right now. However, both McLaren and Honda seem to have more potential to innovate. Conclusion: if the first win happens in 2015, it is likely going to be VettelFerrari, if it takes beyond 2015 it will be Alonso/McLaren. Same with the WDC. Alonso/McLaren for 2016 or 2017 are quite likely.

 

The irony of course is that Alonso left Ferrari exactly because it took him too much time there to win the WDC. Now it seems that he has prolonged his woes. Yet, he might know things about the Scuderia we don't know.

 

Vettel has been wise/lucky with his career trajectory: BMW, Toro Rosso, Red Bull, now Ferrari - always seemingly at the right time (he won with that team that year except with BMW). Contrary Alonso with his trajectory from 2007: McLaren, Renault, Ferrari, McLaren. Then again, Fernando's reputation as possibly greatest driver of his generation and an all time great would not have been achieved had he driven top cars the whole time. It was exactly his ability to wring performance from underperforming cars that has endeared him even to people who don't like him.

 

Remember Stirling Moss? He is still regarded by many as an all time great and his name weighs in with the 3x plus WDCs.....

Edited by aditya-now, 04 February 2015 - 08:24.

[Nonesuch]

How did this turn into a Button/Hamilton discussion?

 

They were mentioned because like their fellow WDC-winners Alonso and Vettel they left and joined teams that were going through significant changes.

 

The results of those changes, or rather the outcome, has been quite different; Button has never challenged for the WDC again, but Hamilton got himself a spot in one of the utterly dominant W05s.

 

Who knows what will happen to Vettel and Alonso. People, sports fans especially, tend to see patterns where none exist.

 

Fernando's reputation as possibly greatest driver of his generation and an all time great would not have been achieved had he driven top cars the whole time. It was exactly his ability to wring performance from underperforming cars that has endeared him even to people who don't like him.

 

Remember Stirling Moss? He is still regarded by many as an all time great and his name weighs in with the 3x plus WDCs.....

 

Though the latter is especially true in England, it is indeed the case that 'legends' - if that's even the right word - are made out of more than just statistics.

[kimster89]

Life would be so cruel on Alonso after he gave tears, sweat and blood for that ferrari in 5 years with so little success to now see how vettel comes and right from the get go enjoys much stronger ferrari that fernando ever did.

[Fomalhaut]

I think Vettel.