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Alonso, Schumacher, Briatore and Valentino Rossi are on the HSBC list of tax evaders


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#1 John Player

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Posted 09 February 2015 - 13:10

Los pilotos de Fórmula Uno Fernando Alonso y Michael Schumacher, el futbolista uruguayo Diego Forlán, el motociclista italiano Valentino Rossi y el empresario italiano y exdirector deportivo de Renault, Flavio Briatore, figuran en la denominada "Lista Falciani".

La lista, que hoy empezó a ser desvelada en varios medios de comunicación internacionales, incluye los nombres de más de 130.000 supuestos evasores fiscales que podrían tener dinero en bancos suizos.

El documento es fruto de una investigación internacional coordinada por el diario francés "Le Monde" y el Consorcio Internacional de Periodistas de Investigación (ICIJ)", según señala el diario digital español "El Confidencial", medio que desde hoy, y en colaboración con La Sexta, publicará los nombres de la lista.

Entre los desvelados este lunes figura también el del vicepresidente del Barça en la época de Joan Laporta, Alfons Godall, el piloto finlandés de Fórmula 1 Heikki Kovalainen y el tenista ruso Marat Safin.

Según "El Confidencial", entre 2006 y 2007 Fernando Alonso tenía un saldo máximo de 42 millones de dólares en una cuenta abierta en el año 2002, como se desprende de su ficha en la entidad.

Sus asesores han explicado al diario digital que "su situación ha estado y está en regla y que nunca ha tenido problemas con la Hacienda española ni con las de otros países".

La lista refleja que Godall estaba relacionado con una cuenta a nombre de una empresa con sede en las Islas Vírgenes Británicas, que sumaba un saldo máximo de 5,1 millones de dólares entre los años 2006 y 2007.

Godall ha reconocido en su tuit que "hace muchos años que tenía una cuenta en una entidad que fue comprada por el HSBC" y añade: "Está regularizada y consta en mis declaraciones fiscales".

En el caso del delantero uruguayo Diego Forlán figura como cliente del banco desde 2006 relacionado con dos cuentas que acumulaban 1,4 millones de dólares.

Flavio Briatore, con 73 millones de dólares, Valentino Rossi, con 23,9 millones de dólares, Marat Safin, con 4,87 millones de dólares, y Heikki Kovalainen, con 132.765 dólares son los otros nombres vinculados al deporte conocidos hoy.

Hervé Falciani colabora desde 2009 con la justicia de varios países aportando información -de la que se apoderó cuando trabajaba en la filial suiza del banco HSBC- de más de 130.000 supuestos evasores fiscales que podrían tener dinero en bancos suizos.

 

http://www.abc.es/ag...noticia=1786925

 

 

 

http://www.dailymail...orts-stars.html


Edited by John Player, 09 February 2015 - 13:18.


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#2 SealTheDiffuser

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Posted 09 February 2015 - 13:13

Now translate it please. And not with google... :smoking:



#3 RSRally

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Posted 09 February 2015 - 13:19

I thought Alonso had purposely moved his tax affairs back to Spain in order to support his country's public finances?

#4 Gilles4Ever

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Posted 09 February 2015 - 13:34

Now translate it please. And not with google... :smoking:

Or just go to the English link supplied  :smoking:



#5 SealTheDiffuser

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Posted 09 February 2015 - 13:36

Or just go to the English link supplied  :smoking:

 

it was added

 

 

 

anyway: all I knew is that Rossi is a know tax evader (who settled with authorities), Briatore is a known fraudster and rabenvater and Schuey lost his Millions in the Dubai desert..


Edited by SealTheDiffuser, 09 February 2015 - 13:41.


#6 kosmos

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Posted 09 February 2015 - 13:40

Alonso is clean, he was living outside Spain in those years 2006-2007 (and beyond) and by the Spanish law he had his fiscal residence outside of Spain, since 2011 his fiscal residence is in Spain despite him living in Dubai, he could move his money outside Spain again and it will be legal. The articles in the Spanish press today are pure click bait.


Edited by kosmos, 09 February 2015 - 13:42.


#7 NoSanityClause

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Posted 09 February 2015 - 13:41

F1 drivers Fernando Alonso y Michael Schumacher, Uruguayan football player Diego Forlán, Italian MotoLos pilotos de Fórmula Uno Fernando Alonso y Michael Schumacher, el futbolista uruguayo Diego Forlán, MotoGP racer Valentino Rossi and Italian entrepreneur and former Renault Sporting Director, Flavio Briatore, are among those mentioned in the list known as "Lista Falciani".

The list, which has started to be unveiled today in many international media, includes the names of over 130.000 allegedly involved in tax evasion manoeuvres that could have money in Swiss banks.

This document is the result of an international investigation coordinated by the French newspaper "Le Monde" and the International Consortium of Investigative Journalists (ICIJ), according to Spanish newspaper "El Confiencial", which will be publishing the names of this list along with "La Sexta" starting today.

Among the names revealed this Monday is included  Barça's VP, Alfons, Godall, Finnish driver Heikki Kovalainen and Russian tennis player Marat Safin.

According to "El Confidencial", between 2006 and 2007 Fernando Alonso had a maximum account balance of 42M USD in an account he opened in 2002, as shown in his account opening form.

His advisors have explained to the digital newspaper that "his situation was and is within the rules and he has never had any probles with tax authorities from Spain or any other countries".

La lista refleja que Godall estaba relacionado con una cuenta a nombre de una empresa con sede en las Islas Vírgenes Británicas, que sumaba un saldo máximo de 5,1 millones de dólares entre los años 2006 y 2007.

The list shows that Godall has admitted in his twitter account that "many years ago he had an account in an entity purchased by the HSBC" and adds: "It is within the regulations and mentioned on my tax forms".

Diego Forlán is shown as being a customer at this bank since 2006 with two accounts for a total amount of 1.4M USD.

Among others, Flavio Briatore, with 73M USD. Valentino Rossi, with 23.9M USD, Marat Safin, with 4.87M USD, and Heikki Kovalainen, with 132,765 USD are the sport-related names revealed today.

Hervé Falciani collaborates since 2009 with the authorities of many countries providing information - obtained when he worked at the HSBC Swiss branch - from more than 130.000 persons allegedly involved in tax evasion manoeuvres that could have money in Swiss banks.

 

EDIT: Ouch, didn't know about the English link.


Edited by NoSanityClause, 09 February 2015 - 13:42.


#8 kosmos

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Posted 09 February 2015 - 13:52

James Allen Article.

 

 

http://www.jamesalle...comment-2881238

 

 

It is important to point out that being a customer of HSBC in Switzerland is no indication of any impropriety. Indeed, Alonso was actually a resident of Switzerland during the period covered by the hacked list.

 



#9 KirilVarbanov

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Posted 09 February 2015 - 13:57

That's a pretty poor levels of journalism, damn it! I know all the general public cares about is 'sensationalism", but Alonso is clear on all affairs, as he has already been under scrutiny. Official comment from his manager: 

Alonso has been tax resident in different countries since 2001 and "has always declared all these accounts and investments in each of the countries." He said that while Alonso was a Swiss tax resident his wealth was mostly managed by Swiss banks. He explained that later Alonso moved from Switzerland to Spain, transferring most of his wealth to Spain, and that the accounts and investments he maintains in Switzerland and in other countries have been duly declared in Spain.

 

This is a leak of 60,000 files. I'm not sure proper investigation and analysis has been done yet. Alonso's participation in the affair is possible link with account labeled "MAFDAF 851", which was previously under his name. Having an account is no presumption of criminal act. 
I doubt one of the richest sport athletes in the world is stupid enough to do such silly mistakes. 
Finally, no one has seen the files yet. 


Edited by KirilVarbanov, 09 February 2015 - 13:59.


#10 Brazzers

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Posted 09 February 2015 - 13:58

Not sure what the fuss is about, Alonso was a resident at the time and surely everyone knows the Swiss have no taxes at all. 

 

 

Even Lewis has residence in both Switzerland and Monaco! 



#11 revmeister

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Posted 09 February 2015 - 14:04

Hope he sues them for defamation.

#12 SanDiegoGo

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Posted 09 February 2015 - 14:05

rich people avoid tax? gee, i wonder if that's how they stay rich?

 

it was added

 

 

 

anyway: all I knew is that Rossi is a know tax evader (who settled with authorities), Briatore is a known fraudster and rabenvater and Schuey lost his Millions in the Dubai desert..

 

 

what's this now?



#13 katmen

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Posted 09 February 2015 - 14:22

Hope he sues them for defamation.

why? he deliberately evade taxes in old country

 

it will be not successful 



#14 Maustinsj

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Posted 09 February 2015 - 14:28

Ho hum.

 

Now, where's my Daily Mail...I need some REAL journalism...



#15 Nonesuch

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Posted 09 February 2015 - 14:31

Next up on the FIA's list of things to do: assign drivers the flags of the 'legal residence' of the drivers.

 

Switzerland's number of F1 champions is about to explode... :up:



#16 pdac

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Posted 09 February 2015 - 14:34

rich people avoid tax? gee, i wonder if that's how they stay rich?

 

Off with their heads!



#17 showtime

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Posted 09 February 2015 - 14:37

Hope he sues them for defamation.

 

It seems he's going to do it: http://www.marca.com...1423490600.html (Spanish)



#18 kosmos

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Posted 09 February 2015 - 14:38

Hope he sues them for defamation.

 

 

Done.

 

http://www.marca.com...er&t=1423492120

 

 

Edit: Showtime beat me :p .


Edited by kosmos, 09 February 2015 - 14:39.


#19 Nonesuch

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Posted 09 February 2015 - 14:59

why? he deliberately evade taxes in old country

 

There is a legal difference between tax evasion and tax avoidance. The former is illegal, the second is... legally kind of within the letters of the law.

 

Alonso and his fellow millionaires are of course 'avoiding' taxes by 'living' in countries like Switzerland (while still pandering to the nationalistic impulse of sports fans), but to claim he has acted illegally is going to require some proof.



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#20 Gorma

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Posted 09 February 2015 - 15:04

There is a legal difference between tax evasion and tax avoidance. The former is illegal, the second is... legally kind of within the letters of the law.

 

Alonso and his fellow millionaires are of course 'avoiding' taxes by 'living' in countries like Switzerland (while still pandering to the nationalistic impulse of sports fans), but to claim he has acted illegally is going to require some proof.

It's called tax planning.



#21 NoSanityClause

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Posted 09 February 2015 - 15:11

It seems he's going to do it: http://www.marca.com...1423490600.html (Spanish)

Well, that escalated quickly.



#22 kimster89

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Posted 09 February 2015 - 15:11

Im totally fine with Alonsos behaviour on this one.

 

I hate taxes.



#23 Sash1

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Posted 09 February 2015 - 15:12

Them greedy tax evading bastards!
Now, does somebody have a "friend" who can resurface my roof for a friendly price?



#24 Ellios

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Posted 09 February 2015 - 15:33

Them greedy tax evading bastards!
Now, does somebody have a "friend" who can resurface my roof for a friendly price?

 

How much for cash?



#25 ensign14

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Posted 09 February 2015 - 15:34

The big problem with racing drivers and tax is the more fundamental one that they earn in at least 20 countries.  If you take into account their advertising rights, they earn in probably every country bar North Korea.  So how much do you tax them and where?  Driver X who is paid £10m p.a. and happens to be German will only get 1 race in Germany so should he pay German tax on the whole lot, or on the £500k notional pay for the one race?



#26 Spillage

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Posted 09 February 2015 - 15:57

Im totally fine with Alonsos behaviour on this one.

 

I hate taxes.

Guessing you don't hate public services though  :rolleyes:

 

I'm not at all a fan of guys who wrap themselves in their national flag when they win whilst living abroad for tax purposes. Lewis Hamilton and Jenson Button both do it (okay, Guernsey is a Crown possession, but the point stands) and they're not the only ones. If they were that patriotic, they'd pay their taxes like everybody else.



#27 bonjon1979a

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Posted 09 February 2015 - 16:00

Well, that escalated quickly.

What's the summary?



#28 alframsey

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Posted 09 February 2015 - 16:00

Almost anybody who has a reasonable amount of money will be in some sort of tax avoidance/evasion scheme, it makes me sick!

#29 bonjon1979a

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Posted 09 February 2015 - 16:04

Guessing you don't hate public services though  :rolleyes:

 

I'm not at all a fan of guys who wrap themselves in their national flag when they win whilst living abroad for tax purposes. Lewis Hamilton and Jenson Button both do it (okay, Guernsey is a Crown possession, but the point stands) and they're not the only ones. If they were that patriotic, they'd pay their taxes like everybody else.

Both Jenson and Hamilton are Non-doms. they don't live in the UK - most of their time is spent abroad. What would any of us do? Pay taxes in a country we don't live in? For services that we don't use? Or would we locate our finances somewhere else? 

 

I've heard of people who are genuine tax avoiders, get in a plane and circle london for a day multiple times a year to ensure that they can qualify for non-dom status. Literally take off at 11 in the evening and landing the next morning, you can claim you were out of the country for two days. For f1 drivers who don't spend a great deal of in their native land then it just seems eminently sensible. Don't quite know the details of Alonso's business as couldn't read that article.



#30 FirstWatt

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Posted 09 February 2015 - 16:10

[...]and surely everyone knows the Swiss have no taxes at all.

I'll forward this to my tax office to take notice....they for sure didn't know it ;)


It's not exactly like this. But if you are not Swiss citizen, and have your residence in Switzerland, you can negotiate (so to say) a flat tax based on an estimate of your living standard. This is not possible in all Cantons of Switzerland though.
But surely it's not a bad choice for wealthy foreigners. Tina Turner and Shania Twain for instance like it, as well as many others.
Many countries espscially in Europe have such high taxes that they should not wonder about tax evasion. But this is a political discussion...

#31 SanDiegoGo

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Posted 09 February 2015 - 16:13

Almost anybody who has a reasonable amount of money will be in some sort of tax avoidance/evasion scheme, it makes me sick!

 

...with envy?



#32 Atreiu

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Posted 09 February 2015 - 16:32

Is it evasion or loophole exploration?



#33 Jerem

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Posted 09 February 2015 - 16:56

Kovalainen (a Briatore-managed driver) is also in the list, as is the late Emilio Botin.
 
Heikki was supposed to live in UK at that time, but the amount on his bank account was "only" $130,000. Expectedly, Botin's account was wealthier.
 
More info HERE



#34 rhukkas

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Posted 09 February 2015 - 17:18

Guessing you don't hate public services though  :rolleyes:

 

I'm not at all a fan of guys who wrap themselves in their national flag when they win whilst living abroad for tax purposes. Lewis Hamilton and Jenson Button both do it (okay, Guernsey is a Crown possession, but the point stands) and they're not the only ones. If they were that patriotic, they'd pay their taxes like everybody else.

 

People act like that they patriotically pay taxes. Most people begrudgingly pay taxes, apart from a few Guardian readers amongst us. Given the same opportunity to reduce their tax bill most people, in private, would,

 

it's not like people donate money to HMRC as some form of patriotism!



#35 Spillage

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Posted 09 February 2015 - 17:24

Both Jenson and Hamilton are Non-doms. they don't live in the UK - most of their time is spent abroad. What would any of us do? Pay taxes in a country we don't live in? For services that we don't use? Or would we locate our finances somewhere else? 

 

I've heard of people who are genuine tax avoiders, get in a plane and circle london for a day multiple times a year to ensure that they can qualify for non-dom status. Literally take off at 11 in the evening and landing the next morning, you can claim you were out of the country for two days. For f1 drivers who don't spend a great deal of in their native land then it just seems eminently sensible. Don't quite know the details of Alonso's business as couldn't read that article.

That's a bit of a chicken-and-egg argument. True, most of their time is spent abroad because they both live abroad. In fact, they both live in Monaco. For tax reasons.

 

It irks me that they'll both wrap themselves in the Union Jack - Button had it on his helmet, for goodness' sake - whilst contributing nothing to the society who's schools, roads and hospitals they both grew up using.



#36 P123

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Posted 09 February 2015 - 17:36

That's a bit of a chicken-and-egg argument. True, most of their time is spent abroad because they both live abroad. In fact, they both live in Monaco. For tax reasons.
 
It irks me that they'll both wrap themselves in the Union Jack - Button had it on his helmet, for goodness' sake - whilst contributing nothing to the society who's schools, roads and hospitals they both grew up using.


Living in the UK would be no guarantee they would be paying their tax fully. There are plenty tax avoidance schemes out there. There will always be accountants willing to exploit them for the wealthy.

They will also pay a proportion of tax from their earning in the UK anyway (as they will in numerous other countries), so once again being domiciled in the UK doesn't quite have the importance you are placing on it.

#37 Maustinsj

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Posted 09 February 2015 - 17:41

Just to throw a spanner in the works, domicility is not the same as residence.

#38 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 09 February 2015 - 17:52

I'm impressed/surprised Alonso had that much money by then. I can see why he'd be on a big salary at McLaren, but you'd have thought his Renault one would have been medium sized at best. It wouldn't be until after the WC's that he'd have big earning potential. Sure he'd have bonuses, attracted Spanish sponsorship, etc. But it's impressive he had 40m *left over*.



#39 Fatgadget

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Posted 09 February 2015 - 18:07

Im totally fine with Alonsos behaviour on this one.

 

I hate taxes.

So who do you expect to pay for the infrastructure of the country you  happen  to earn your living and reside in ? The plebs on PAYE?


Edited by Fatgadget, 09 February 2015 - 18:16.


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#40 rmpugh

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Posted 09 February 2015 - 18:16

Or just go to the English link supplied  :smoking:

 

I would rather spend a few years and lots of money in learning Spanish just to read that article than ever click on a daily wail article. :)



#41 Dolph

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Posted 09 February 2015 - 18:18

The big problem with racing drivers and tax is the more fundamental one that they earn in at least 20 countries.  If you take into account their advertising rights, they earn in probably every country bar North Korea.  So how much do you tax them and where?  Driver X who is paid £10m p.a. and happens to be German will only get 1 race in Germany so should he pay German tax on the whole lot, or on the £500k notional pay for the one race?

 

Taxes are usually charged in countries of residence, not where you earn them



#42 Fatgadget

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Posted 09 February 2015 - 18:24

The big problem with racing drivers and tax is the more fundamental one that they earn in at least 20 countries.  If you take into account their advertising rights, they earn in probably every country bar North Korea.  So how much do you tax them and where?  Driver X who is paid £10m p.a. and happens to be German will only get 1 race in Germany so should he pay German tax on the whole lot, or on the £500k notional pay for the one race?

What wrong with being taxed at your source of income?  :confused:



#43 tifosi

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Posted 09 February 2015 - 18:37

What wrong with being taxed at your source of income?  :confused:

 

  Complexity.



#44 rmpugh

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Posted 09 February 2015 - 18:49

Taxes are usually charged in countries of residence, not where you earn them

 

It depends and is complicated. Taxes are generally charged on domicile, but double taxation treaties will usually prevent you from being charged in more than one location. For example, if you are British, living in Belgium, you will be charged Belgian tax if you are living there for more than 6 months. You could have been paying British tax for 6 months, in which case because the UK has a double taxation treaty with Belgium, the amount paid in British tax for the first 6 months will be deducted from what you owe Belgium for that period.

 

I am sure accountants will be able to explain it in a way that makes far less sense so that they can charge loads of cash, which is why they are so rich. :)



#45 Maustinsj

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Posted 09 February 2015 - 18:56

I am an accountant & I always explain things simply.





Oh, I still charge loads of cash though.

#46 wrcva

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Posted 09 February 2015 - 19:00

So who do you expect to pay for the infrastructure of the country you  happen  to earn your living and reside in ?

 

If infrastructure services were provided by other "private" companies they would cost fraction of what governments charge taxpayers to provide those services (all around the world).  So, the infrastructure argument is very weak but believable by honest common folks who already are paying more than their fair share (link). 

 

Back on topic, since this organization did not make the full list of names public it makes you wonder about their own agenda as well.   In all fairness, making the names of selective folks like Alonso public is not fair nor ethical (they call themselves Investigative Journalists).   I hope Alo and others will sue them and win.   If they have a point to make they should disclose everything they have or just shut up.   Alo, Flav and other drivers are smart folks and have the means to optimize their tax burden.   I wished I could to the same (btw, I don't like Flav as an F1 character).  



#47 Fatgadget

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Posted 09 February 2015 - 19:07

If infrastructure services were provided by other "private" companies they would cost fraction of what governments charge taxpayers to provide those services (all around the world).  So, the infrastructure argument is very weak but believable by honest common folks who already are paying more than their fair share (link). 

 

 <snip>

Eh!..This the real world we are living in. ..If it were Utopia then yes Id agree with you  :rolleyes:



#48 Kalmake

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Posted 09 February 2015 - 19:41

Both Jenson and Hamilton are Non-doms. they don't live in the UK - most of their time is spent abroad. What would any of us do? Pay taxes in a country we don't live in? For services that we don't use? Or would we locate our finances somewhere else?

I would move to a tax haven and race under their flag.



#49 LORDBYRON

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Posted 09 February 2015 - 19:46

they would jailed by now if they had broken the law but it goes to show that there are questionable regimes in every country.



#50 rmpugh

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Posted 09 February 2015 - 19:52

they would jailed by now if they had broken the law but it goes to show that there are questionable regimes in every country.

 

Tax evasion is illegal. Tax avoidance is common sense.