96 replies to this topic

[FullThrottleF1]

Just in case things go belly up, Bernie announces a new plan: http://www.motorspor...th-old-red-bull

 

I swear he gets crazier every single time...

Edited by FullThrottleF1, 10 February 2015 - 08:47.

[superden]

Two 2013 Red Bulls were boring enough.

[Gilles4Ever]

Sensationalist click bait.

 

Last line

 

Schmidt said the initial proposal was rejected by Ferrari, Mercedes and McLaren at last Thursday's strategy group meeting in Paris.

 

The idea was shot down in flames

[Tourgott]

The idea was already rejected... unfortunately.

 

Edit - Too slow.

Edited by Tourgott, 10 February 2015 - 08:54.

[Maustinsj]

Probably didn't have enough sprinklers.

[GrumpyYoungMan]

Why was he choosing an old RedBull? Is it because of his close relationship with Horner?

[beqa16v]

This is not bad at all. I would love to see todays drivers face eachother in an identical machinery. RB was a very well developed car. I would love to see one car teams (there will be many teams due to low costs) to exclude driver preference and internal politics. F1 is great for developing new technologies but RB V8 formula would simply be a monster show! Engines would most likely be somewhere under 3 liters and around 800-900bhp.

Edited by beqa16v, 10 February 2015 - 09:21.

[Richard T]

This is not bad at all. I would love to see todays drivers face eachother in an identical machinery. RB was a very well developed car. I would love to see one car teams (there will be many teams due to low costs) to exclude driver preference and internal politics. F1 is great for developing new technologies but RB V8 formula would simply be a monster show! Engines would most likely be somewhere under 3 liters and around 800-900bhp.

[GrumpyYoungMan]

This is not bad at all. I would love to see todays drivers face eachother in an identical machinery. RB was a very well developed car. I would love to see one car teams (there will be many teams due to low costs) to exclude driver preference and internal politics. F1 is great for developing new technologies but RB V8 formula would simply be a monster show! Engines would most likely be somewhere under 3 liters and around 800-900bhp.

Really? We do not need another "spec" series... :/

[DampMongoose]

Probably didn't have enough sprinklers.

 

Or shortcuts.

[Ferrari_F1_fan_2001]

Honestly, why dont they just make customer cars available again? It would save teams tens of millions of dollars on initial R and D, ensure that good drivers have a chance to shine (albeit in 12 month old technology) and also save bigger teams mega money via inter-team data sharing.

[Jovanotti]

...or just finally distribute the money more equally, the simplest solution ffs!

[Rob]

Honestly, why dont they just make customer cars available again? It would save teams tens of millions of dollars on initial R and D, ensure that good drivers have a chance to shine (albeit in 12 month old technology) and also save bigger teams mega money via inter-team data sharing.

 

It's the elephant in the room.

[aditya-now]

Just in case things go belly up, Bernie announces a new plan: http://www.motorspor...th-old-red-bull

 

oh dear

 

A deer? I know, I know - deer!

[dau]

Honestly, why dont they just make customer cars available again? It would save teams tens of millions of dollars on initial R and D, ensure that good drivers have a chance to shine (albeit in 12 month old technology) and also save bigger teams mega money via inter-team data sharing.

Because teams such as Williams are against it. And even though i was a fan of customer car efforts like Super Aguri, i can kinda see their point as well: Competitors being constructors instead of just racing teams is an important part of F1 and i don't think anyone wants to see some sort of DTM racing, with basically three cars for the whole field. I know that wasn't much of an issue in the past of F1, but times have changed and the sport is probably more complex and expensive than ever and we'd risk transforming the whole midfield and below in nothing more than B-teams for the big manufacturers.

[ShivyF1]

...or just finally distribute the money more equally, the simplest solution ffs!

It's such an obvious solution, but I'm sure theres a lot of resistance coming from all angles

[andrewf1]

I have never heard of a company or organisation which still holds such an incompetent moron at the helm of a multi-billion dollar franchise, close to implosion.

 

The man does absolutely nothing to promote F1, he collects the money and ruins the sport. Promotes Qatar and threatens Hockenheim and Monza...I don't care about what he's done for the sport before anyone here could remember, the fact is he's running F1 into the ground.

 

What kind of sustainable vision are we to expect from a guy 20 years past his goddamn retirement age? The man doesn't know if he'll live tomorrow, of course he doesn't care about the future!

Edited by andrewf1, 10 February 2015 - 11:11.

[DampMongoose]

The only way Bernie could be more of a troll was if he had a Rolex wearing teenager tweet this proposal on his behalf. 

[Spillage]

Honestly, why dont they just make customer cars available again? It would save teams tens of millions of dollars on initial R and D, ensure that good drivers have a chance to shine (albeit in 12 month old technology) and also save bigger teams mega money via inter-team data sharing.

Because it destroys the competition, MotoGP style. Even customer engine teams find it difficult to compete with their supplier.

[Clatter]

This is not bad at all. I would love to see todays drivers face eachother in an identical machinery. RB was a very well developed car. I would love to see one car teams (there will be many teams due to low costs) to exclude driver preference and internal politics. F1 is great for developing new technologies but RB V8 formula would simply be a monster show! Engines would most likely be somewhere under 3 liters and around 800-900bhp.

That is not the proposal. And even if it were, what would then differentiate F1 from the any of the other spec series?

[sopa]

There are various possibilities, but some sort of customer car system would IMO be a thinkable solution to a crisis. Like often said, once teams like Williams, and others built themselves up after starting out with customer cars.

 

Manufacturers are against it, but then performance of the customer cars would need to be "adjusted" so that they wouldn't beat those, who design cars by themselves. But they can't be so far off either that it would be embarrassing. So sort of like the CRT class in Moto GP. Would 2013 Red Bull with a V8 engine perform below current cars?

 

I think we will get a "Moto GP" solution to F1 pretty soon. It is just a matter of time. Moto GP got it in 2012, when only 12 prototypes were left on the grid. Maybe it would not be the best solution, but they are running out of time and need to do a "fix" solution fast.

Edited by sopa, 10 February 2015 - 11:48.

[V8 Fireworks]

Just in case things go belly up, Bernie announces a new plan: http://www.motorspor...th-old-red-bull

 

I swear he gets crazier every single time...

 

Bwahahaha

 

Why are they all Red Bulls!? 

 

Correspondent Michael Schmidt claims Ecclestone quietly prefers the idea of a "second division" for the pinnacle of motorsport, "with 2013 Red Bulls and Mecachrome V8 engines".

 

While Bernie is a nutter, this would actually be cool.         

[Supertourer]

Breaking News - after seeing it at the Goodwood Revival, F1 announces that pedal cars will form part of the grid from 2016 - a spokesman said that it also enables us to bring the driver's age down even further with 6 year olds expected to make up some of the entries. Superlicence rules will be waived for pedal car competitors although they will be required to complete a course around cones in the circuit car park before being allowed on track.

Edited by Supertourer, 10 February 2015 - 11:49.

[V8 Fireworks]

it would not be the best solution, but they are running out of time and need to do a "fix" solution fast.

 

Super Touring did the same.  Didn't work that great.  Just production cars constantly getting out of the way.  Gotta what happened to the hundreds of super tourers built since 1993 and why they couldn't make it more attractive for privateers to race old BUT proper super touring cars, down the back?

 

Edited by V8 Fireworks, 10 February 2015 - 11:51.

[sopa]

Bwahahaha

 

Why are they all Red Bulls!? 

 

Correspondent Michael Schmidt claims Ecclestone quietly prefers the idea of a "second division" for the pinnacle of motorsport, "with 2013 Red Bulls and Mecachrome V8 engines".

 

While Bernie is a nutter, this would actually be cool.         

 

If they bring in customer cars, it would be preferable if they were all different too. Okay, 2013 Red Bull would beat all other 2013 cars, but... that's the game of F1 anyway. Customer cars or no.

[V8 Fireworks]

Why was he choosing an old RedBull? Is it because of his close relationship with Horner?

Precisomundo.

[maverick69]

I think this is Bernie poking the big teams with a stick and saying "You'd better start thinking about supplying customer cars"........ Because it's gonna happen.

[Timstr11]

I think this is Bernie poking the big teams with a stick and saying "You'd better start thinking about supplying customer cars"........ Because it's gonna happen.

Luckily, Bernie cannot unilaterally make these decisions.

He needs a majority in the strategy group.

[maverick69]

Luckily, Bernie cannot unilaterally make these decisions.

He needs a majority in the strategy group.

 

I get the feeling that CVC are pretty worried about their investment - and they're gonna fluff the teams with more cash so it can happen.

 

Also, Williams were the last major blocker - and now they're up the front again, so they could profit from it rather than get spanked by some customer team. 

[Dick Dastardly]

Probably end up with GP2 cars running at the back.......remember back in the 60s / early 70s, they had F2 then F5000 cars mixed up with F1s.....

[Lotus53B]

Aye, but from what I remember, the F5000s were normally a lap or so back at the end of the race - which was not a lot of fun.  Back in those days, the chasing driver raised his hand, the marshall raised a blue, the chasee pulled over smartly.

 

Mixed grid solutions are as artificial as Katie Price, and even less appealing.  The primary solution I can think of is to make the distribution of funds more even, but given the entrenched positions, I doubt that it will happen.  Secondary would be to have long term stability - and simplification - of regulations.  At the moment, they're like tax laws, those who have money will be able to find incredibly complex solutions to get round them in a short time.  Also, the micromanagement doesn't allow innovation - e.g. rear engines, aerofoils, ground effects, turbos to allow free thinking independents to steal a march.  Or even a Hesketh (sorry).

 

Mixed formula, just say no...

[cosicave]

Why was he choosing an old RedBull? Is it because of his close relationship with Horner?

[BlinkyMcSquinty]

[GrumpyYoungMan]

Also a 2013 RedBull wouldn't pass the 2015 crash tests? So what about safety concerns?

[JHSingo]

Here's a better idea - hammer some sense into the teams, and make a cost cap f'ing work instead!

 

All these stupid ideas Bernie and others keep coming up with completely misses the point. Implement a cost cap now, and there will be no need to worry about the grid dropping into the low teens.

 

[Gyno]

F1 will DIE before the big teams will agree to a cost cap.

 

They should NEVER have let the teams have Any say in the matter, unless it's about safety.

[cosicave]

Perhaps the reason is even less savoury?
OPINION:
Although the Horner connection may be valid and the 2013 Red Bull chassis the most obvious pre-V6 choice, I believe it is more to do with the Mecachrome engine. It might equally be called the Flaviochrome. Bernie's long standing partner in crime (this is a figure of speech and not meant as a slur upon either character), the outlawed Flavio Briatore - who may just happen to have been hanging around in the background ever since his dismissal from the paddock, grandstands and turnstiles - seems to have a big interest in exploring any nook or cranny to get inside the crumbling wall which officially discludes him. It would appear that Bernie has no qualms about getting his mate back in and past 'Security'... ;-)

Edited by cosicave, 10 February 2015 - 13:24.

[Ben H]

It would a sneaky way round the noise problem....10 V8's wailing away and being beaten by the V6's...everybody happy

 

But still, no...much as I would love to hear the V8's again, I think it makes a series look weak when they pull of the grid and by turn one the 'B Group' has already separated....and look at the paltry amount of TV time and attention CRT's get in Moto GP (without the 'giant killing' cachet of someone like Maruissia last year)....

 

Even if they don't want to do budget capping, is it beyond their wit to convene an independent panel to work out the cost for a bare bones independent effort to do the whole season, and then give this sum as the FOM prize money to the last team (so sponsorship/pay drivers = profit for a small team), and work the prize money system backwards from there? Gosh there might even be a flood of applications to enter then! There is 1.8 billion coming in every year and they can't make this work................... 

[revmeister]

Flávio and with Pat Symonds have been free to rejoin F1 for a few years now. Symonds is at Williams, and Flávio has said he has no interest in coming back.
As far as a F1 spec series goes, I'd watch it if it were televised in my neck of the woods.

[revmeister]

The 2013 RB with a decent v8 engine would be giving the current spec a very good run for its money.

[STIGG]

A deer? I know, I know - deer!

 

It's like a horse with horns 

[FullThrottleF1]

It's like a horse with horns 

And smaller. Plus they aren't used to make burgers 

[Lotus53B]

They are here...and they're delicious.  Nom...

[STIGG]

And smaller. Plus they aren't used to make burgers 

 

Ah, but JPM's engineer didn't say that 

[7MGTEsup]

I quite liked the simpleness of the old CART formula, 3 chassis, 3 enigines, two tyres pick and mix.

[ardbeg]

In MotoGP there are basically three classes and it works in the sense that they have more bikes on the grid. What they have done there is to allow the slower bikes to a) use more fuel, b) use softer tires in qualifying and c) use more engines during a season. Currently a factory team that did not win a race the previous season get some advantages as well, in spite of being "factory". I don't remember exactly, but I think it is that they can use 8 engines instead of four.

F1 could go that route. I mean it could. I would not like it much though. Nevertheless - something needs to be done. This formula of making cars just slightly faster than the cars that cost 1/20th to build and maintain is simply silly.

[SlickMick]

Ecclestone, Kolles and Briatore.

As far as the well-being of F1 is concerned, what could possibly go wrong?

Edited by SlickMick, 10 February 2015 - 16:19.

[Rinehart]

I totally support the idea of a division 2 in F1, which are 1 year old purchased cars, as opposed to constructed cars. (I don't think 1 team should own that supplier contract). 

 

As long as they can't win "constructors" prize money, it would seem to answer many of F1's problems since there is a far better business case to enter F1 as a competitive Division 2 team for say £30m per season than easily the last Constructor team for £80m per season. 

 

People can take the piss out of the details of Bernies proposal, but the core approach is sensible.

 

To those that say all we need to do is re-distubute the prize money. Please reach for a calculator. There is NOT ENOUGH money in the total pot to adequately fund 12 Constructor teams. $500m total pot / 12 = $41m each. $41m is not enough based on various F1 teams declared operating budgets and that is based on a structure where there is no incentive for winning. So give the winners even more and there is an average of even less than $41m per team. People always say this is the obvious solution. It is not and it shows that running F1 is more complex than that. 

Edited by Rinehart, 10 February 2015 - 16:47.

[F1EC]

As a fan, from a purely selfish point of view, if I was watching the current formula live at a track I'd quite like to see two different F1 races, because it would provide better value for the ticket price. But I don't understand how that would be logistically possible given garage space etc. But I wouldn't want it to run on separate days or separate tracks, and I wouldn't want it televised - I spend quite enough time watching/following the current format. So, if I was a sitting duck at a race, yes. Otherwise, no, as a fan I see no point. 

[Rasputin]

Flávio and with Pat Symonds have been free to rejoin F1 for a few years now. Symonds is at Williams, and Flávio has said he has no interest in coming back.
As far as a F1 spec series goes, I'd watch it if it were televised in my neck of the woods.

 

I think Flavio is good where he's at?