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Married vs. unmarried drivers


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#1 ToxicEnviroment

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Posted 14 February 2015 - 20:10

Hi. Im rather new here. Although I read this forum for ages.

 

I usually post at TF but every discussion somehow ends up with CART vs. IRL, we are do(o)med or simply with an h

 

And posting there became pointless. So I decided to post this here. I imagined this discussion as pure theoretical and even philosophical.

 

The main question is why is NASCAR forcing this image of a married men driving racing cars? Prior to race you will usually see Kevin Harvick, Sam Hornish, Jeff Gordon and the likes hang around with their wives and kids. I always thought having a fammily is actually a huge burden to a racing driver. Thoughts about making an error that could turn their wife into widow and their children into orphans is a huge distraction for a racing driver. And Im not talking about distant history. Dan Wheldon's accident happened just few years ago. Bianchi's near fatal accident happened few months ago. And we also had Sean Edwards a year ago. So death is still a part of motor racing.

 

I'm really puzzeled by this nascar politics of portraying racing drivers as a family men. I remember when I was lets say 11. My worst fear was that something might happen to my father. I remember those days vividly. I remember everything about my father. The shoes he wore, his mustache, his voice, everything.

 

And yet. One Jacques Villeneuve when asked about his father -he simply replies that he doesn't even remember his father. I do not buy that. He is either lying because he does not want to be bothered with the topic that still hurts him. Or he went through such a shock that his brain simply erased Gilles from the system to protect Jacques from suffering.

 

Bottom line is when those nascar drivers kiss their wife before they climb into that racing car - are they aware that they just might kissed her for the last time. And that kid whom they let to play in the cockpit before the race might never see its father again.

 

Personally I think it is huge burden. I could never race under those circumstances. Yet more than half of the NASCAR field does.

 

 



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#2 D28

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Posted 14 February 2015 - 20:50

 

And yet. One Jacques Villeneuve when asked about his father -he simply replies that he doesn't even remember his father. I do not buy that. He is either lying because he does not want to be bothered with the topic that still hurts him. Or he went through such a shock that his brain simply erased Gilles from the system to protect Jacques from suffering.

 

 

Jacques clearly does remember his father, as he was 11 when he died. Also very clearly he has kept his personal thoughts and feelings of his father very private over the years. Nothing wrong with that, one of the qualities I most admire about him.



#3 Sharman

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Posted 14 February 2015 - 21:13

........kiss their wives. In days of yore in proper motor racing they usually kissed somebody else's (this thing won't let me do smilies)



#4 Ferrari_F1_fan_2001

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Posted 14 February 2015 - 22:35

Didnt seem to slow Schumacher down!

#5 Nonesuch

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Posted 14 February 2015 - 22:39

The main question is why is NASCAR forcing this image of a married men driving racing cars?

 

I don't know a lot about NASCAR, so I'm not sure if there's anything specific going on.

 

A lot of sports seem to think the viewers care that the wife/husband of the athlete is also in the audience, or hanging around the track. In the skiing I've been watching the past few days they even label said people on the lower side of the screen; everything from father to wife to boyfriend. I also recall that a few years ago we probably saw more theatrically panicking women than cars during the closing stages of the Indy 500; in split screen no less!

 

There's definitely an audience for this, though. Even on these forums the briefest glimpse of a woman standing around aimlessly in the pitbox will prompt (several) people to ask for her name. :stoned:

 

Personally I think it is huge burden. I could never race under those circumstances. Yet more than half of the NASCAR field does.

 

Racing is no doubt dangerous, but so are other things - many of which are even more likely to get you killed.

 

Heck, a friend of mine got married because he was going to Afghanistan; it's better to be a widow than a former girlfriend when it comes to soldiers.



#6 rasul

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Posted 14 February 2015 - 22:58

Didnt seem to slow Schumacher down!

Well, we wouldn't know that, would we? Maybe he would have been even faster if he didn't have a family. 



#7 William Hunt

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Posted 14 February 2015 - 23:40

In the '60-'70s that factor could have been bigger as there was a real risk of getting killed.

That risk has decreased a lot but in the old days there were a lot of fatal accidents.


Edited by William Hunt, 14 February 2015 - 23:41.


#8 NoSanityClause

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Posted 15 February 2015 - 00:15

If being married slows down a driver, then Kimi married a harem last year.

 

I'll show myself out...



#9 turssi

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Posted 15 February 2015 - 00:27

Well, we wouldn't know that, would we? Maybe he would have been even faster if he didn't have a family.


Or slower.

#10 George Costanza

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Posted 15 February 2015 - 01:22

Didnt seem to slow Schumacher down!

 

Or Alain Prost even.



#11 Afterburner

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Posted 15 February 2015 - 01:31

If being married slows down a driver, then Kimi married a harem last year.

 

I'll show myself out...

This comment triggered one of those Seinfeldian thought trains that only nerds have.

 

So if we were to attempt to mathematically quantify the effect that having a wife had on a driver, how do we know the scale of that effect? If we evaluate Muslim racing drivers, does each additional wife have a linearly additive or quadratic or exponential effect?

 

We must investigate this further. :p



#12 LotusElise

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Posted 15 February 2015 - 12:58

I'm trying to think of drivers who have never married, but you'd have to leave out the very young ones. Ayrton Senna was unmarried during his F1 career, but had several long-term, high-profile girlfriends.

 

Gaining a husband is not always a good career move for a female driver, with some exceptions. I've noticed that when the husband is a racer himself, this is often a very bad career move, again, with some exceptions. Pat Moss and Erik Carlsson appeared to support each other's careers well, although they were at slightly different stages.



#13 jjcale

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Posted 15 February 2015 - 13:25

The only driver on the current grid who is affected by his off track relationship is not married .... or even attached at the moment - though that could change again tomorrow.

 

Put your money on NR for the 2015 WDC while you can still get good odds....



#14 Anonas

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Posted 15 February 2015 - 13:39

The only driver on the current grid who is affected by his off track relationship is not married .... or even attached at the moment - though that could change again tomorrow.

 

Put your money on NR for the 2015 WDC while you can still get good odds....

It didn't seem to affect Lewis in 2013, I think he's a bit stronger than before when it comes to that sort of thing, he had plenty of chances to completely meltdown 2011 style last year.


Edited by Anonas, 15 February 2015 - 13:39.


#15 Nathan

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Posted 15 February 2015 - 15:27

I think it adds to the appeal for the fans. I would even suggest a family man dying in a race car adds more to the drama and nostalgia.

 

As for the psyche I would think having children could be a negative, but not everyone is the same.  A wife can be great support and a booster.  I think of Hakkinen, Schumacher and the Hill's. It's not like most go out there thinking "I might die today.".  I have watched the body language of NASCAR drivers during/after those smooches and I don't see many thinking "this might be the last one". Maybe pre-90's this may have had more substance.  At this level it is important to have something away from racing, and that gives you support during racing.  I imagine the only time family pops up in the mind on the race track is on a long straightaway when you're thinking "where should we go eat tonight?", or when you know you have lost control of your car.


Edited by Nathan, 15 February 2015 - 15:30.


#16 sennafan24

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Posted 15 February 2015 - 16:08

It didn't seem to affect Lewis in 2013, I think he's a bit stronger than before when it comes to that sort of thing, he had plenty of chances to completely meltdown 2011 style last year.

Agreed

 

Lewis said as much himself on the 2014 Season Review shows. He claims he has learnt to deal with setbacks better. Based on recent form, I believe him. Take how he beat Nico 4 times on the spin after he retired in Australia, and later in the season when he won 5 in a row after retiring at SPA. Plus, just before the 2013 Hungarian GP, Lewis had one of his break-ups with Nicole, and responded by delivering one of the best performances of his career. 

 

Lewis is an unpredictable sort. Nothing really surprises me with him. But I think for the most part, he has become stronger mentally. Even if his mistakes in Q3 would partially contradict that notion. 



#17 Imateria

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Posted 15 February 2015 - 18:24

I think these days it's only ever a minor consideration to the drivers, in fact it's even been argued that part of the cause of Grosjean's big turn around during 2013 was due to becoming a family man.

 

As for Jacques, my understanding is that his retisence on talking about his father was simply down to not wanting to be seen as the "son of Giles" but as Jacques Viellneuve, Indycar and F1 Champion. Plenty of other "sons of..." drivers have taken a similar stance, it's part of why having a famous name is considered a double edged sword.



#18 Emery0323

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Posted 16 February 2015 - 06:07

Regarding NASCAR drivers being portrayed as loving husbands and family men: 

A large part of this is due to the core demographics of the NASCAR audience, with all the associated Public Relations and marketing/endorsement vetting that goes along with that.

 

As is well-known, NASCAR's roots are in the deep south of the US, and the working-class whites who laid the foundation of the sport are heavily fundamentalist Protestants.   In the early decades, that kind of affiliation was largely a personal topic, but starting in the '70s and '80s, religious issues expanded into the political and popular-culture realm for various reasons.   "Family values" became a big focal point in the culture wars in the US, and grew into a heavily politicized issue that is reflected, e.g.,  in partisan politics and various social issues that have a political dimension.

The implicit message behind all these NASCAR drivers putting their wives and families front-and-center is that it shows the socially conservative working-class whites who are the sport's most loyal followers that "This guy is OK, he's a family man, he's one of us."   It might be meaningless on the track, but it does matter to the sponsors who want to sell products (laundry detergent, soft drinks, fast food, etc.) to NASCAR's core audience.  



#19 DogEarred

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Posted 16 February 2015 - 07:36

When I was racing. my greatest fear was not 'I might die today' but 'I might get married' today....



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#20 aditya-now

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Posted 16 February 2015 - 16:16

Hi. Im rather new here. Although I read this forum for ages.

 

I usually post at TF but every discussion somehow ends up with CART vs. IRL, we are do(o)med or simply with an h

 

And posting there became pointless. So I decided to post this here. I imagined this discussion as pure theoretical and even philosophical.

 

The main question is why is NASCAR forcing this image of a married men driving racing cars? Prior to race you will usually see Kevin Harvick, Sam Hornish, Jeff Gordon and the likes hang around with their wives and kids. I always thought having a fammily is actually a huge burden to a racing driver. Thoughts about making an error that could turn their wife into widow and their children into orphans is a huge distraction for a racing driver. And Im not talking about distant history. Dan Wheldon's accident happened just few years ago. Bianchi's near fatal accident happened few months ago. And we also had Sean Edwards a year ago. So death is still a part of motor racing.

 

I'm really puzzeled by this nascar politics of portraying racing drivers as a family men. I remember when I was lets say 11. My worst fear was that something might happen to my father. I remember those days vividly. I remember everything about my father. The shoes he wore, his mustache, his voice, everything.

 

And yet. One Jacques Villeneuve when asked about his father -he simply replies that he doesn't even remember his father. I do not buy that. He is either lying because he does not want to be bothered with the topic that still hurts him. Or he went through such a shock that his brain simply erased Gilles from the system to protect Jacques from suffering.

 

Bottom line is when those nascar drivers kiss their wife before they climb into that racing car - are they aware that they just might kissed her for the last time. And that kid whom they let to play in the cockpit before the race might never see its father again.

 

Personally I think it is huge burden. I could never race under those circumstances. Yet more than half of the NASCAR field does.

 

With all due respect - whenever you kiss your wife that might be the last time - because something might happen to you or to her. I don't know the exact stats, but people die in normal traffic, too, as they do in other daily life situations.

 

For the drivers, motor sports is their daily life, so I don't think there is anything that we should be bothered with, if they are not bothered with it.



#21 P123

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Posted 16 February 2015 - 16:37

The only driver on the current grid who is affected by his off track relationship is not married .... or even attached at the moment - though that could change again tomorrow.

 

Put your money on NR for the 2015 WDC while you can still get good odds....

 

In car, where it counts, I don't think that's true at all.  If anything the expression on Hamilton's face seems to a elicit a greater negative emotional response from all but the man himself. Basically, you're all a bit Hello magazine obsessed with Hamilton's mood.