22 replies to this topic

[V8 Fireworks]

1995?  Easy.  BTCC.  The closest, the most competitive. (IMO)

 

 

2005?  Easy. V8 Supercars.  The closest the most competitive. (IMO)  By this time former BTCC firms such as 888, Prodrive and TWR had shifted the focus of their major operations "down under"...

 

 

2015? ????????? A V8SC series that is "weak" with a poor grid of just 25 cars, poor tv and lack of sponsorship on many cars.   BTCC, WTCC barely rate a mention.  V8 star? STCC?  Sure they might be good, but they may as well be invisible, such little that we hear about them in Australia. :/ Brazil V8 stock cars?  (DTM hardly counts as touring cars). 

 

Is argy bargy touring racing that excites fans down at the pub, captures the imagination of children etc, a thing of the past!?  An irrelevance in this age of prestige brands, and "proper" sportscars, instead of worked over mundane salooons that barely resemble the base car?

Edited by V8 Fireworks, 16 February 2015 - 15:22.

[Richard T]

Well it certainly isn't STCC 

 

I think TCR has the brightest future. It's like the "dream" national and regional series regulations for car manufacturers 

[George Costanza]

DTM in 1995 was great too. But nothing like BTCC in 1990s...

[BRG]

BTCC in 2014 was probably close and more competitive than ever.  Lots of different makes, full grids, large crowds.  It may not have registered much in Australia but it is pretty healthy nevertheless.  The best in the world? Dunno.

[paulb]

Blancpain is an outstanding series. PWC seems to also be gaining momentum.

[Red17]

 

Is argy bargy touring racing that excites fans down at the pub, captures the imagination of children etc, a thing of the past!?  An irrelevance in this age of prestige brands, and "proper" sportscars, instead of worked over mundane salooons that barely resemble the base car?

 

Personally I think touring car started out pretty late and always as a national league rather than something international. The boom in satellite TV did open a few championships (mainly the BTCC in it's TOCA years) but the FIA decided to play it's usual "rulebook game" and throw the thing under the rug once more.

 

Best is always subjective, futurology is a lotery. When the new Dallara was introduced in Indycar people turned their noses, and yet the series threw some good racing despite the hideous cars.

[redreni]

Depends what you mean. If you look at it from a driver's perspective, you might well aspire to get into the DTM above any other touring car series, because there are paid, manufacturers backed drives to be had, and if you do well it could open doors in GT or LMP racing. On the other hand, you could argue DTM isn't a touring car championship at all.

For pure spectacle and entertainment value, in my opinion you'd struggle to beat Aussie V8s. But I admit to having a bias against underpowered touring cars as I find them dreadfully dull, and I also have a preference for those categories that don't allow the drivers to treat them like bumper cars. I can quite well understand why the shorter races and robust driving wins BTCC a lot of fans. But if I only had time to follow one touring car series, which I do, V8SC would be my pick.

Edited by redreni, 16 February 2015 - 18:33.

[Richard T]

Hey, isn't NASCAR kind of a touring car series???

 

Edit: As mentioned above, Nascar is just as much touring car as DTM

Edited by Richard T, 16 February 2015 - 18:13.

[Red17]

Hey, isn't NASCAR kind of a touring car series???

 

Edit: As mentioned above, Nascar is just as much touring car as DTM

 

Nascar DID start as a touring series, but many forumers see it as a more of a show rather than a proper championship. (and it's not dificult considering some of the rules there)

 

Historically it's the same governing body since the beggining, the venues are more or less the same and given the size of the US audience it's probably the most watched closed cockpit series in the world.

[DanardiF1]

Super GT... A touring car/GT hybrid that invariably provides great racing.

BTCC - The driving standards overall may not be at their 90's peak, but it' s a well-run series with great racing and big grids.

[JHSingo]

Personally, I'd say V8 Supercars is still the best touring car series there is. They produce fantastic racing, they're spectacular, and they look and sound brilliant too. A V8 Supercar looks like a touring car should, limited aero (or at least not on the levels of DTM) and aggressive.

Maybe DTM has the stronger drive line up. It's right up there with F1 and LMP1 in terms of driving talent, but the racing doesn't tend to be that great.

The BTCC cars of today do nothing to excite me, compared to the Super Touring days. They're just bland. And, without wishing to sound like one of these F1 noise fanatics, the turbo engines sound dreadful as well. Nothing on the S2000, BTC, or Super Tourers in that area.

 

It's a pity the V8 Supercar championship appears to have made some bad decisions of late. That whole debacle with the 'Supertest' clashing with the Bathurst 12hr was needless bad publicity, and the move to pay TV seems a bit of a weird decision too. Even F1 has seen a sizeable decrease in viewing figures in countries where it has moved to pay TV, so I'm not sure how it will work for the V8s. BTCC would most likely die sooner rather than later if it ever moved to a pay TV channel, so hopefully it won't turn out that way for the V8s.

[F1matt]

Aussie v BTCC for me with the V8's just edging it. The BTCC is a great series which is sustainable and doesn't rely on manufacturer support, we have seen what happens when manufacturers get bored of the DTM!

[Fastcake]

BTCC in 2014 was probably close and more competitive than ever.  Lots of different makes, full grids, large crowds.  It may not have registered much in Australia but it is pretty healthy nevertheless.  The best in the world? Dunno.

 

My thoughts too. The BTCC is healthy and fan friendly, if just limited to Britain.

 

I don't think you can really decide upon one touring car championship as the best in the world. We can probably pick out a few joint best, all with varying vices and virtues, but trying to pick just one out of V8, DTM, BTCC, is pretty difficult.

 

 

Edit: Thinking about it, the fact that the supposed World Touring Car Championship is not anyone's pick for the best touring car series speaks volumes.

Edited by Fastcake, 16 February 2015 - 21:25.

[chunder27]

it doesnt get much press but the touring car sereis in South America are pretty decent.

[George Costanza]

JGTC? Another vote for 90s or early 2000s.

[balmybaldwin]

Btcc is still one of the best days out a money can buy.

went to silverstone last year.

£29 roving grandstand tickets, and freely allowed in back of pits, drivers just wandering around, and grid girls etc
3 btcc rounds
A formula race (cant remember which one)
ginnetas, and juniors x2
Clio cupx2
porsches

Lots of merchandise stands

Caterham spins if you queued for it

Some unbelievable drift show in one of the car parks

And parking was free or cheap enough I dont recall paying





I was worried last year with the sudden penalties for misdemeanors they introduced last year, but didnt really notice it later in the year (maybe they backed off?)

I do like the v8s on the telly box too, but dont catch it often enough to get to know drivers etc.

Wtcc is just wooden, and dtm isnt touring car racing the cars are too far from production cars

[yasushi888]

Surely it's got to be Super TCC

 

As a big 90's touring car fan none of the current series interest me. BTCC doesn't do it for me but at least it's trying and appears to appeal to a fair amount of people. WTCC is a joke, DTM is the most boring series in the world, V8's, once you've seen a couple of races I feel like I've seen them all, I can't take nascar seriously, it's good for a bit of comedy every now and then.

 

Blancpain gets my vote.

[ezequiel]

It depends on what you consider as touring cars and what you value in a touring car series that would make it the best. For the entertainment value (spectacular racing) I guess BTCC and TN, maybe V8 Supercars too thou it doesn't help that the same guy has won the title for six consecutive years. From the technological point of view and attending to driver level, then you have the DTM, thou some people would doubt if it should be considered a touring car championship at all.

[Nathan]

Is NASCAR a TCC?

[JHSingo]

The guys at Autosport magazine must read this forum, because this week's magazine has had this exact debate.

 

They have rated the BTCC, DTM, ETCC, STCC, Super TC2000, V8 Stock Car,  V8 Supecars and WTCC championships out of ten on a number of criteria. They are entertainment, competition, cars, prestige and variety.

 

The results are:

DTM 43

BTCC 42

V8 Supercars 42

Super TC2000 42

WTCC 38

V8 Stock Cars 37

STCC 30

ETCC 24

 

Interesting article and debate anyway.

[noikeee]

No love for the World Cup of 10 Minutes of Boring Citroens cruising?

[AlexLangheck]

I'm slightly surprised that the DTM scored the highest; it's ultra professional, the cars are great, there are some fantastic drivers, but the actual product is normally a little bland; and it tries too hard to be like F1.
The BTCC is almost the opposite; a few good drivers (Jordan, Priaulx, Turkington), the cars are pretty ordinary, but the racing is top notch, which draws in the crowds, and ITV4 like it.

As for the WTCC; the less said the better. In fact, do we need a World Championship for Touring cars? What is a Touring car? Each country/ region has a different explanation. Should the World series see the best drivers, in the best, fastest cars on the best tracks? Yes, but the WTCC doesn't. As a Loeb fan, I hope he bins it after this year, and does some proper racing, in a proper car.

I quite like the Aussie V8's, but recently, they seem to have lost the plot; and their stance over the Bathurst 12 hours left me appalled.
I can't really comment in the other series as I haven't seen too much, but the cars in the Swedish series look good, almost DTM-esque.

[redreni]

Personally, I'd say V8 Supercars is still the best touring car series there is. They produce fantastic racing, they're spectacular, and they look and sound brilliant too. A V8 Supercar looks like a touring car should, limited aero (or at least not on the levels of DTM) and aggressive.

Maybe DTM has the stronger drive line up. It's right up there with F1 and LMP1 in terms of driving talent, but the racing doesn't tend to be that great.

The BTCC cars of today do nothing to excite me, compared to the Super Touring days. They're just bland. And, without wishing to sound like one of these F1 noise fanatics, the turbo engines sound dreadful as well. Nothing on the S2000, BTC, or Super Tourers in that area.

 

It's a pity the V8 Supercar championship appears to have made some bad decisions of late. That whole debacle with the 'Supertest' clashing with the Bathurst 12hr was needless bad publicity, and the move to pay TV seems a bit of a weird decision too. Even F1 has seen a sizeable decrease in viewing figures in countries where it has moved to pay TV, so I'm not sure how it will work for the V8s. BTCC would most likely die sooner rather than later if it ever moved to a pay TV channel, so hopefully it won't turn out that way for the V8s.

 

Re. the V8s, I share your concerns, and it's not just bad decisions by the series, it's Ford and GM that have supported the category in the past and it looks like they're not prepared to carry on as they were. They're going to stop manufacturing and selling their big sedans in Australia because, the way things are going, they're not going to be able to sell them, so that makes their traditional V8 motorsport programs untenable. I've heard talk of the series adopting GT3 or Super GT rules, which in my opinion would be a massive shame. GT3s are full of driver aids.

 

Anyone who watches V8SC and thinks "you know what would improve the racing? Less weight, less power, less noise, clever diff, TC and ABS" doesn't understand the mindset of the typical Australian motorsport fan, as far as I'm concerned.