Member
Posted 01 December 2015 - 16:31
If they took the total teams payout, including these bonuses, and just divided it all up evenly every team would have a really strong financial base.
No, every team would not. Add that $25-30mln to Manor and that just puts them in the spending area of Sauber, and bumps Sauber up to Lotus and Force India.
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Posted 01 December 2015 - 16:41
How much is the total team pool?
Member
Posted 01 December 2015 - 17:16
How much is the total team pool?
£ 590 million is what I get from Dieter Rencken’s article http://plus.autospor...9635.1438332687. So that's about $ 888 million.
Of course CVC's overall revenue is quite a bit more.
Member
Posted 01 December 2015 - 20:01
So still no official announcement then
Member
Posted 01 December 2015 - 20:26
So still no official announcement then
Don't wait up, pdac. 
I expect Lopez has asked for the 65m now as a lump sum, instead of spread over ten years. Well, I would, woudn't you?
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Posted 01 December 2015 - 20:30
Member
Posted 01 December 2015 - 20:57
£ 590 million is what I get from Dieter Rencken’s article http://plus.autospor...9635.1438332687. So that's about $ 888 million.
Of course CVC's overall revenue is quite a bit more.
If these people couldn't manage on £59/$89m each as a starting point, ****'em all
Edited by Ross Stonefeld, 01 December 2015 - 20:57.
Member
Posted 02 December 2015 - 02:58
While I cheer for CVC/Bernie/FOM having to give up more money, it's still ****ing stupid that it's so unfair. Instead of giving one team 100m a year to stay around, why not give Manor, Sauber, Force India, Toro Rosso, and Lotus/Enstone an extra 20-25m a year?
As you know Ross, it's all a matter of politics. Best not to get hung up on the unfairness of it. Lopsided competitions is the European way. Equality - draft, salary cap etc - is the trait of American competitions.
Member
Posted 02 December 2015 - 03:47
It is a long story, but back in September the Formula One group agreed to a deal to pay Renault $136 million in historical money over a nine-year period.
Renault was looking at an investment of about a billion over 10 years
The original deal was heavily back-loaded so that the majority of the money would arrive after 2020
Not sure how you interpret from that $100m a year. To put that in perspective, that's Ferraris CCB payment. The only bargaining power Renault has here is their '05-'06 titles.There are various explanations about why the verbal agreement was rejected, one of which suggested that Renault might have been trying to get more than planned because the original deal included the revenue from a Red Bull engine deal (thus $100 million, plus $35 million from Red Bull) and Renault’s idea was to take that and ask Red Bull for cash as well.
Edited by FPV GTHO, 02 December 2015 - 03:48.
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Posted 02 December 2015 - 05:19
The only bargaining power Renault has here is their '05-'06 titles.
It's implied that Renault was using the engine supply as a bargaining chip too, but who knows.
Grandprix.com reports:
"Ecclestone agreed to make special payments to the French, although not quite as high as had been requested. We have learned that Renault can live with the compromise, which must still be approved by (CEO) Carlos Ghosn."
It's a huge commitment by Renault, particularly at a time when the economic outlook is merde even in the medium term. (Recent downgrade by Moodys and the biggest rise in unemployment for 2 years.)
Member
Posted 02 December 2015 - 11:10
RMC Sport reporting that Ghosn has approved the deal with an official announcement imminent. It'll be over soon...
Edited by Anja, 02 December 2015 - 11:11.
Member
Posted 02 December 2015 - 11:15
RMC Sport reporting that Ghosn has approved the deal with an official announcement imminent. It'll be over soon...
That link was posted yesterday, and still no news 
Member
Posted 02 December 2015 - 11:19
Oh, nevermind then.
Member
Posted 02 December 2015 - 14:10
Oh, nevermind then.
Really, Anja. It's only just lunchtime in Paris. No one gets back to work until 4, and no important decisions are ever made before a few digestifs.
I understand your concern, since there are now only two business days left for a cheque to wing its way across France to London's High Court. Autrement, c'est fini pour Lotus. Triste!
I am sure Carlos will leave the restaurant in a couple of hours and remember to buy a green light on the way back to the office. His wife put a little post-it note on the dashboard of his Twingo this morning.
Member
Posted 02 December 2015 - 15:50
Ross, I see what you are saying. My comment came from adding $25-30mln to the back teams.
If all teams did get an equal piece of the pie, do you limit the number of teams that can participate?
Member
Posted 02 December 2015 - 16:16
You might get more entrants with better financing, which dilutes the share, which makes it harder to have a sustainable(or even profitable) team, etc. But. There's a natural cap at...26 cars?
Even with 13 teams that's a $70mil starting point I think.
Member
Posted 02 December 2015 - 18:53
So still no official announcement then
So still no official announcement?
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RC Forum Admin
Posted 03 December 2015 - 09:17
More on that here:
ouch
Anyway: Whether Renault Red Bull in 2016 can provide at least for a transitional year engines available (under whatever name), Booth is now solely the decision of Ghosn.This will also depend on whether the proposed acquisition of Lotus by Renault works. The chances are, according to information from 'Motorsport-Total.com' from a reliable source worse than 50 percent.
Member
Posted 03 December 2015 - 09:48
is now solely the decision of Ghosn.
I am not entirely sure about that. Signing up to F1 for ten years requires a commitment from partners like Infiniti and Total too, otherwise there's no operating budget.
Member
Posted 03 December 2015 - 10:18
You might get more entrants with better financing, which dilutes the share, which makes it harder to have a sustainable(or even profitable) team, etc. But. There's a natural cap at...26 cars?
Even with 13 teams that's a $70mil starting point I think.
The top teams aren't going to agree from FOM to give their large shares equally to the backmarkers instead, are they? So it is all a moot point.
Member
Posted 03 December 2015 - 11:06
Looks like the deal with Lotus is off
The court will send in the administrators and thats that for Lotus....pity
Member
Posted 03 December 2015 - 11:08
Source?Looks like the deal with Lotus is off
The court will send in the administrators and thats that for Lotus....pity
Member
Posted 03 December 2015 - 14:17
RMC Sport reporting that Ghosn has approved the deal with an official announcement imminent. It'll be over soon...
Imminent in French is sometime next year I guess?
Member
Posted 03 December 2015 - 14:50
Imminent in French is sometime next year I guess?
Imminent as in "as soon as the money is paid in, upfront, we'll make the announcement".
RC Forum Host
Posted 03 December 2015 - 15:49
Autosport seem to think the deal has gone through:
http://www.autosport...t.php/id/122120
Over the course of the Abu Dhabi Grand Prix weekend, the deal appeared to be in the balance, with talks taking place between F1 supremo Bernie Ecclestone and Renault Sport president Jerome Stoll.
On the table was the need to find a compromise solution over Renault receiving a share of the constructors' championship bonus and historical payments.
That resulted in Renault CEO Carlos Ghosn spending the last few days assessing Ecclestone's final financial offer, with the 61-year-old believed to have now given the green light.
In means Renault will be back in F1 as a constructor for the first time since 2011, returning to Enstone where it enjoyed many years of success.
Member
Posted 03 December 2015 - 15:49
Well: http://www.autosport...t.php/id/122120
edit: foiled again by a woman...
Edited by LeClerc, 03 December 2015 - 15:50.
Member
Posted 03 December 2015 - 15:52
That green light bit has no confirmation I can find anywhere else. And Autosport.com to me is not the leading authority on breaking news anymore.
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Posted 03 December 2015 - 15:54
That green light bit has no confirmation I can find anywhere else. And Autosport.com to me is not the leading authority on breaking news anymore.
the wording of Matthew Carter leaves no doubts about completion of the deal....
Member
Posted 03 December 2015 - 16:09
Imminent as in "as soon as the money is paid in, upfront, we'll make the announcement".
Yes, clearly that's the most plausible reason for the very slight delay.
As we Gribkowsky watchers well know, cheques from Bernie go from offshore banks in the Virgin Islands, via Flavio, and are then routed through some obscure Austrian Trust.
A very private man, often ashamed of his considerable generosity, BE said at the time, 'I didn't want anyone to know who the money was from'.
Now, you can imagine the scene at the Ghosn home today, when the 136 million turns up inexplicably on the balance of Mrs Ghosn's Carrefour shopping card.
I am sure Carlos will think of some explanation over the weekend and Lotus will be fine on Monday.
Member
Posted 03 December 2015 - 17:11
Autosport is claiming that it is confirmed. Renault has taken over Lotus.
Is it time for a new car thread? Will it be "Renault R32"? I am not sure how the numbering system works after a 5 year absence. Anybody have a guess?
Member
Posted 03 December 2015 - 17:34
Autosport is claiming that it is confirmed. Renault has taken over Lotus.
Is it time for a new car thread? Will it be "Renault R32"? I am not sure how the numbering system works after a 5 year absence. Anybody have a guess?
Autosport only says 'Renault is poised to confirm' and that Ghosn 'is believed' (by whom?) to have given the green light.
Monday's no news on Thursday.
Member
Posted 03 December 2015 - 17:38
Autosport has really gone down in my ratings. They are slow and they presume a lot.
Member
Posted 03 December 2015 - 19:48
Renault will announce the continuation of its f1 programm F1 at 10pm tonight french time according to Canal+.
Edited by Viryfan, 03 December 2015 - 19:49.
Member
Posted 03 December 2015 - 20:21
I'm sure these figures are speculative, but using these 2015 budget figures released in August earlier this year:
RBR: 468.7
MGP: 467.4
MCL: 465.0
FER: 418.0
WIL: 186.4
LOT: 139.1
TOR: 137.4
FIN: 129.7
SAU: 103.2
MAN: 83.0
If they do complete the takeover as autosport expects, do you see Renault's budget dramatically increasing from this years "139.1"? Something along the lines of the "250" range? If so, can they hope to compete for race wins while remaining at such a disadvantage budget-wise to the big 4 teams?
Edited by Vettelari, 03 December 2015 - 20:24.
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