What do you think of this ?
Posted 01 March 2015 - 13:15
What do you think of this ?
Advertisement
Posted 01 March 2015 - 13:20
roost to coming home chickens
Rearrange to make a well known saying.
Posted 01 March 2015 - 13:24
F1 is in serious trouble and it only has itself to blame.
Posted 01 March 2015 - 13:25
So once again, we will have to hear about the teams financial problems overshadowing the entertainment and enjoyment of the weekend itself.. with F1 shooting itself in the foot by having the public discuss how poor they are at running a sport and a business..
Great.. (sarcasm)
Posted 01 March 2015 - 13:26
F1 is in serious trouble and it only has itself to blame.
I think you are right. It sounds worrying.
Edited by Lotusseven, 01 March 2015 - 13:27.
Posted 01 March 2015 - 13:28
"Cash flow problems" meaning suppliers no longer willing to supply first and invoice later. This is what happens when people don't pay invoices.
Posted 01 March 2015 - 13:56
I was kinda expecting something like his coming when I learned these Prius units would cost a team a whopping 20+ MEUR per season,
coinciding obviously with the usual FIA-rubbish blaha - blaha about cutting costs, cutting costs, cutting costs...
At the same time, please, can anyone inform the 96 year old ringleader that F1 does not swing as much weight with sponsors no more?
Looking at the Williams can tell you that, a vermouth maker, a deoderant, a headhunter and a finnish welding equipment manufacturer.
Get down to some sensible aerodynamic ruling, decent racing engines and drop those faraway races nobody watches anyways!
Posted 01 March 2015 - 13:57
"Cash flow problems" meaning suppliers no longer willing to supply first and invoice later. This is what happens when people don't pay invoices.
Yes, but it's not really "cash flow" anymore. The costs have risen and it's not just that the normal cash-flow process has been disrupted, but that the budgets are short.
Posted 01 March 2015 - 14:02
Is that the same Force India that denied a cash strapped Marussia a cheap option to get on the grid?
Posted 01 March 2015 - 14:03
And as the suppliers know budgets are short they demand cash up front.Yes, but it's not really "cash flow" anymore. The costs have risen and it's not just that the normal cash-flow process has been disrupted, but that the budgets are short.
Posted 01 March 2015 - 14:03
Greece Debt Crisis F1 style? No it can't be... (Sarcasm)
Nothing new here, these problems have been ongoing and the teams in question aren't necessary new either. It remains to be seen whether on this occasion how bad the situation really is (similar accounts in the past). Lotus has done remarkable considering the ropes they have been under and numerous question talks of Sauber whilst Force India is somewhat new.
Perhaps the European Union (Bernie and Co) might actually bail the financial-weakened teams out. The teams themselves may not want to leverage more debt on the amount piling up unless the repayments of the principle and interest are manageable enough. I suspect Bernie & Co would would rather be repaid as quick as possible with interest to cover the riskiness.
Posted 01 March 2015 - 14:08
It's bitterly ironic that due to the cash distribution, McLaren who at the moment can barely complete a single lap, let alone a race, have pleny of dosh to get there, whereas teams that could race haven't go the money.
Posted 01 March 2015 - 14:11
Edited by ExFlagMan, 01 March 2015 - 14:13.
Posted 01 March 2015 - 14:12
It's bitterly ironic that due to the cash distribution, McLaren who at the moment can barely complete a single lap, let alone a race, have pleny of dosh to get there, whereas teams that could race haven't go the money.
While Ron's running around trying to find a title sponsor, refusing to realize that this is not the 90s no more, it takes more than glitz and half-naked girls to land a 100 MEUR sponsor today.
Posted 01 March 2015 - 14:15
There's some confusion here, I think. It's not "Bernie, there's a cash-flow problem", it's "There's a problem with Bernie's Cash Cow."!!
Posted 01 March 2015 - 14:16
Still, looking on the bright-side, in the UK at least there will not be too many people disappointed as it is one of the BBC highlights only races - 'creative' editing should cover up the lack of cars.
They would have to cut the start
Posted 01 March 2015 - 14:38
FOM will just use a close-up of the front of the grid/merge in a copy of the back of the grid from last year or pan away to yet another advertising hoarding.They would have to cut the start
Posted 01 March 2015 - 14:40
I wonder if Bernie will help. He risks having 12 cars, he needs a minimum of 14 doesn't he?
Not that I want teams to die, but it would be great if all this came back to bite him.
Posted 01 March 2015 - 14:40
This is the only sport I've ever seen where you always have to hear constantly about the teams finances and whether or not they are doing a good job or not. It's also the only sport where you constantly have to hear about the people who run the sport and whether they are in the limelight or not. The competitors should have the limelight, not the people who run the sport.
I don't follow soccer/football that closely so maybe it's a similar thing I don't know. Maybe it's a Euro thing. But for all the other sports I've followed in my life, and there are many.. it's usually just a case of tuning in and seeing who wins. I don't really care who the chairman of the Olympics is, or the soccer world cup, or the US open or the NBA.. I just want to know who will do a good job and who will win. This is what makes sport fun and enjoyable.
Rather than tuning in and having to hear about things like finances.. which should be their business, not our business. But because they do such a lousy job it becomes our business.
Edited by HoldenRT, 01 March 2015 - 14:41.
Advertisement
Posted 01 March 2015 - 14:43
Buisness we can do nothing about. It is like watching a car crash happen in front of you, you want to be able to help but it would be impossible. Wouldn't it be great if someone on this forum could run the FIA, and fire all those old men.
Posted 01 March 2015 - 14:46
Fire all these old men.
Edited by superden, 01 March 2015 - 14:58.
Posted 01 March 2015 - 14:47
If I could use another metaphor. Imagine you are (for whatever reason) sitting in the A & E section in Hospital, a man is rushed, critically ill, losing blood, he has minutes to be saved. Then the surgeon comes in, notices the patient and goes for a coffee... comes back and gives him a plaster and sends him on his way.
Posted 01 March 2015 - 14:50
Posted 01 March 2015 - 14:53
I've been watching F1 for more years than I care to mention. Every year it's the same thing... lack of $$$$$$$ €€€€€€€ £££££££. At this stage, it's as part of F1 as the cars and drivers are.
Posted 01 March 2015 - 15:03
It not only Bernie who is to blame, it's the whole system who is to blame. From Bernie to FOM to FIA and the teams themselves, they are all to blame for this mess..
I don't see a solution to all this either because you can maybe replace Bernie but that won't solve anything to be honest. The whole system needs to be overhauled in my opinion.
Posted 01 March 2015 - 15:17
I've been watching F1 for more years than I care to mention. Every year it's the same thing... lack of $$$$$$$ €€€€€€€ £££££££. At this stage, it's as part of F1 as the cars and drivers are.
I think the problem is that, some years back, the world economic situation took a bit of a nose dive. Everyone started cutting back and adjusting to the lower levels of income that were inevitable - EXCEPT F1. Those people (and I blame the teams bosses here) seem to live in a bubble and this the whole glitzy circus will just keep rolling along. This is the result. Each year they keep spending money they don't have because the other teams are doing so. They're just a bunch of lemmings following each other off the end of the cliff.
Sure the prize fund could be more fairly distributed. But that wouldn't solve the main issue - that the teams lower down think they can spend millions that they don't have with the idea that they'll get it all back next year because they'll finish higher up in the WCC. The reality, of course, being that the other teams around them are doing the same. It's no use the more hard-up teams saying there needs to be a budget cap. If it doesn't happen, they still need to cap themselves or face future bankrupcy.
Posted 01 March 2015 - 16:12
Cash flow is always going to be tough just prior to the start of the season. It's normal. But these teams can't be surprised their suppliers want to be paid!
That the teams are loading up on debt to sustain their campaigns is understandable. They want to be competitive. It is also irresponsible.
As always, the teams are refusing - not failing - to see the bigger picture. If they had to chose between structural change and gaining a place in the WCC standings, they'll go with the latter every time.
Posted 01 March 2015 - 16:18
Get down to some sensible aerodynamic ruling, decent racing engines and drop those faraway races nobody watches anyways!
Dropping flyaway races wouldn't actually help in this regard, as they're the only countries who have the millions the teams desperately need.
Posted 01 March 2015 - 16:35
Greece Debt Crisis F1 style? No it can't be... (Sarcasm)
It's not that bad of an analogy because the crisis is systemic and the powers that be are profiteering from the misery by taking sponsors, that would otherwise appear on the cars, trackside instead. The FOM monopoly control over broadcasting means that these B2B sponsors get a much sweeter deal in terms of exposure, thus undercutting the teams and their flying advertising hoardings.
I also disagree that "age is irrelevant" in this crisis. If a certain way of working or ideology has been a reliable source of income for decades, why would you ever change? This is part of why both the Greek and F1 crises are ongoing. Bernie and CVC are coming to the end of their monetarily successful tenures and subsequently have the very least to gain by investing in a future in which they have no part. If they were in F1 for the long term, they would not be inflicting the kind of damage on F1 that they are now. They will simply never change, whether they do see the writing on the wall or otherwise.
The solutions by virtue also have to be systemic and it starts with the FOM and CVC putting money in, rather than taking money out of F1. This ideally starts with an even distribution of prize money but realistically I think it needs regime change.
Posted 01 March 2015 - 17:00
Edited by Petroltorque, 01 March 2015 - 17:00.
Posted 01 March 2015 - 17:15
Get ready for all sports to sound like this. Social media has turned life into a soap opera and sport (being unpredictable) doesn't fit.This is the only sport I've ever seen where you always have to hear constantly about the teams finances and whether or not they are doing a good job or not. It's also the only sport where you constantly have to hear about the people who run the sport and whether they are in the limelight or not. The competitors should have the limelight, not the people who run the sport.
I don't follow soccer/football that closely so maybe it's a similar thing I don't know. Maybe it's a Euro thing. But for all the other sports I've followed in my life, and there are many.. it's usually just a case of tuning in and seeing who wins. I don't really care who the chairman of the Olympics is, or the soccer world cup, or the US open or the NBA.. I just want to know who will do a good job and who will win. This is what makes sport fun and enjoyable.
Rather than tuning in and having to hear about things like finances.. which should be their business, not our business. But because they do such a lousy job it becomes our business.
Edited by oetzi, 01 March 2015 - 17:16.
Posted 01 March 2015 - 19:38
I've been watching F1 for more years than I care to mention. Every year it's the same thing... lack of $$$$$$$ €€€€€€€ £££££££. At this stage, it's as part of F1 as the cars and drivers are.
But just 27 months ago we had 24 cars on the grid, ok 22 cars not a problem, but in less than half a year half the grid can be out!
Edited by Scuderia312, 01 March 2015 - 19:39.
Posted 01 March 2015 - 19:40
Edited by DrF, 01 March 2015 - 19:46.
Posted 01 March 2015 - 20:12
I, for one, am shocked to hear this.
Posted 01 March 2015 - 21:01
I was kinda expecting something like his coming when I learned these Prius units would cost a team a whopping 20+ MEUR per season,
coinciding obviously with the usual FIA-rubbish blaha - blaha about cutting costs, cutting costs, cutting costs...
At the same time, please, can anyone inform the 96 year old ringleader that F1 does not swing as much weight with sponsors no more?
Looking at the Williams can tell you that, a vermouth maker, a deoderant, a headhunter and a finnish welding equipment manufacturer.
Get down to some sensible aerodynamic ruling, decent racing engines and drop those faraway races nobody watches anyways!
Agreed. Not just the 1000 y/o dwarf though. The rule makers that have made these moronic hybrid regulations and allowed these mad boffins nightmare cars. Hardly the thing too attract paying punters yet alone paying sponsors.
It appears ? that the F1 will be predominantly FOX only. That is probably the death knell these days.
Posted 01 March 2015 - 21:06
Will Bernie not throw money at them I thought if grid drops below 14 cars he looses all rights to F1
Posted 01 March 2015 - 21:31
It is almost tempting to see Sauber, Lotus, Manor-Marussia & Force India die just to see the greedy, self-serving, moronic leaders who ruin this sport every single year, look absolutely foolish beyond belief. To see CVC without their cash cow, Bernie without his power and the greedy team owners without their championships and races is almost too good to be true. It's just such a shame that I love this sport and it would be so upsetting to lose all that history, events and everything else because of a bunch of greedy men who would stab there grandmothers in the back for a few extra bob. Rock and a hard place comes to mind. Every time I hear these stories though it pushes me just a little bit more into the camp of revolution, as the way out of this intolerable mess.
Posted 01 March 2015 - 22:04
Posted 01 March 2015 - 22:05
If I could use another metaphor. Imagine you are (for whatever reason) sitting in the A & E section in Hospital, a man is rushed, critically ill, losing blood, he has minutes to be saved. Then the surgeon comes in, notices the patient and goes for a coffee... comes back and gives him a plaster and sends him on his way.
For the comparison to hold up, the surgeon would have to say "It's his own fault anyway, he should have been more careful"
Advertisement
Posted 01 March 2015 - 22:10
Get down to some sensible aerodynamic ruling, decent racing engines and drop those faraway races nobody watches anyways!
Oi some people live in Australia
Posted 01 March 2015 - 22:12
I, for one, am shocked to hear this.
Posted 01 March 2015 - 22:13
When you increase complexity it gets much more expensive.
Posted 01 March 2015 - 22:14
Seems like F1 is on the verge of death... Bernie could have been removed soon enough to stave it off, but he bought his way out of the German bribe charges.
Yup.
And some say F1 isn;t broken. What a joke.
Posted 01 March 2015 - 22:44
Dropping flyaway races wouldn't actually help in this regard, as they're the only countries who have the millions the teams desperately need.
But not much of an audience though.
Posted 01 March 2015 - 22:51
Posted 01 March 2015 - 23:12
Posted 02 March 2015 - 00:15
Get ready for all sports to sound like this. Social media has turned life into a soap opera and sport (being unpredictable) doesn't fit.
The $ sign is blurring the line between sport and "sports entertainment", where the bottom line is making money for shareholders and the participants just become actors/puppets. The sports are all competing against each other for TV money, which drives the need to try and create a better product. In the end, why bother with actual sport when you can create more compelling stories by manipulating "the show"? Run it properly and everyone involved gets rich. Of course, we all know that real sport can be just as compelling, so I wish they'd realise you don't *need* to manipulate it. Personally the 2007 finalé, exciting though the drama of the Brazil race was, was always a little hollow the way the entire season had been meddled with to set it up.
Of course for the super rich this is never enough anyway. You have to make more money than the other superrich people like some kind of willy waving competition, and that involves trickery, backroom deals, and squeezing every last drop of cash out of everyone you can, regardless of the outcome for the sport. F1 has made Bernie a billionaire. If he *genuinely* cared about the sport, would that not be reward enough? I can't get angry at CVC - their purpose is to make money out of F1. I can get angry at teams like Ferarri, who stomp over the idea of fair place and equal competition because of their self righteous sense of self worth - and why? Because probably they want to make more money as the bottom line is they're a business and a successful Ferrari winning, regardless of how they do it, will improve the brand and help them to make as much money as possible.
Posted 02 March 2015 - 00:18
Slightly off topic rant, sorry. But the bottom line is that advancing this pay to the teams isn't doing anything other than nudging the issues a little further down the line - even a bail out would be nothing but a temporary fix. Only once the teams get fair, and equal distribution of the cash will F1 start to be a proper sport again.
Sure you'd still get badly run teams that might over extend themselves by overreaching, but at least if they failed it would be in a fair fight.
Posted 02 March 2015 - 00:24
Slightly off topic rant, sorry. But the bottom line is that advancing this pay to the teams isn't doing anything other than nudging the issues a little further down the line - even a bail out would be nothing but a temporary fix. Only once the teams get fair, and equal distribution of the cash will F1 start to be a proper sport again.
Sure you'd still get badly run teams that might over extend themselves by overreaching, but at least if they failed it would be in a fair fight.
The top teams don't want a fair fight, because then it would utterly shatter the illusion of competition.
Posted 02 March 2015 - 00:37
I won't be sad to see Force India disappear. Lotus too for that matter.