Jump to content


Photo
- - - - -

Testing is testing, observations, musings and (likely wrong) opinions


  • Please log in to reply
24 replies to this topic

#1 KWSN - DSM

KWSN - DSM
  • Member

  • 36,359 posts
  • Joined: January 03

Posted 02 March 2015 - 19:44

Mixed bag of what I think right now before the season start. Place The Points Competition will once again be where we can put our collective feet in our mouths.

 

All teams have had their chance, testing is over whichever credence we lead to the mantra of 'Testing is Testing', no team can any longer hide behind. I fully expect a number of 'explanations' come Melbourne as to why that particular race or all the early fly-away races is not when they will perform optimally having all the bits and parts on their cars.

 

Few will argue that Mercedes is way ahead of all others, best engine, arguably best car, and equally arguable best driver pairing. Once past them it is much more of an open book, unless we go to the back of the field.

 

McLaren Honda is in shambles, the might of Honda as an engine manufacturer may claw something back, may somehow become a reliable engine. But as of right now there is a chance McLaren will complete a season with zero points!! It possible were the Moon and the Stars to align for the Manor entry to outscore McLaren grasping the 10th place bonus in front of them. Do I expect that? Hard to say, I sort of do, but I have a hard time really thinking that for a team like McLaren and an engine manufacturer like Honda this would end up being the case.

 

Interested in Alonso and how affected he will appear from his concussion, the way it was communicated, the way he was 3 days in the hospital, the way he did not participate in the last test in Barcelona, to me is obvious that he got a real hard conk on the head, we have previously seen drivers getting one (or two) never being quite the same as what they were before, Ralf Schumacher to me was one such driver.

 

Red Bull and Renault have both failed to look strong or really really competitive, Ricciardo will be the driver he was last season, and will deliver anything the car / engine package is capable of. Kvyat I am not convinced about, me questioning the driver selection of Red Bull, with them having clear knowledge of strengths and weaknesses is likely presumptuous, I just do not think he really matched expectations or performance in the Toro Rosso in 2014. He is obviously a very accomplished driver, he was chosen over and above Vergne, I personally do not have any 'wow' feelings about him. Cynically I see him as a bench warmer for Verstappen, whom Red Bull undoubtedly see something very very very special about. Red Bull have the strength and resources to work hard and effectively as long into the season as they want, winning 3 races last season were 3 more than I expected them capable of then, so thinking them unable to win any this season will likely seem me fall on my face.

 

Williams is quietly confident, they should be since they should be the second best team based on engine, despite the high marks given to Bottas I have a hard time seeing him as anything else than a Hulkenberg redoux. Fact that Red Bull won 3, and Williams none was Williams under-performing, they should have been second and not spend 2/3rds of the season battling Alonso for 3rd. If they do not finish second this season, they have once again underperformed.

 

Ferrari appear as if they have made strides, possibly more than any other team, if truly made them even towards Mercedes they have done very good. Engine is clearly better, and from what Raikkonen and Vettel say in public, it is a good solid car. As things stand right now, I see them as the 3rd best team and expect them to be much more of a contender than last year, and I expect both drivers to be that as well. There were a comment somewhere of how we should expect Vettel to come out on top, due to “His work ethic being much better than Kimi's” - Damming words, which reinforce those in the view of Kimi as a driver who have dis-serviced his talent throughout his career.

 

Middle field is a muddled mess, through organization and financial foundation it must be Red Bull and Toro Rosso to be best, followed by Lotus, Sauber and Force India. The last two I expect to be close to each other, Force India being better at the start of the year, Sauber catching up and passing during the year.

 

Which then leave Manor and McLaren to make up the rear with Manor being last unless something very weird happens.

 

The youth revolution... Max Verstappen, the fast track of him Karting => F3 => F1 in 2 years, 1 if you only count Autoracing as part of a battle with Mercedes if we are to believe all we read is something very special. I have no reason to dislike Max, I have no reason once again to presume I know more and better than Red Bull, however I am on record on these board over past years to bemoan the trend of eating and spitting out drivers in their, or just out of their teens. And I stand by that belief. The signing of Max have prompted The FIA to change their rules in order this does not become how F1 drivers are drafted moving forward, the added tightening of the Super License is a correct way to go about that as well.

 

Even though there are many comments of how some teams will not even make it to Melbourne, the only one who may miss it is Manor GP, about whom there is a weird mix of confirmed sightings, approvals and dead silence.

 

Roll on 2015 I do not expect an epic or in any way special season.

 

:cool:



Advertisement

#2 lars75

lars75
  • Member

  • 1,123 posts
  • Joined: February 13

Posted 02 March 2015 - 21:20

Well Max just has one year of carracing under his belt. But in that year he did 46 races, thats double the races Alonso and Kimi did before entering F1. It's more then Button did before entering F1. And it's equal to Massa and his father Jos. It is just one year, but a year where he gained a lot of skills! But besides that year he has 10 yrs of racecraft teaching Kart events with multiple championships and tournaments he took part in. He has more racing experience at this moment then all of the above had when they entered F1. He is just 17, but at racecraft he is in his 20's.

 

If he will be succefull in F1, only time will tell. Everything has come together to be succesfull in F1, as we can see with Hulkenberg at the moment.

 

The way RedBull is treating their youngsters isn't always the best, I agree. But when I look the way they aproach the F1 with Verstappen, and how they did it with all the others (besides Vettel) I see that they think they have hit the Jack Pot!

 

The comments on the performance of Max on track with STR are promissing, so I think RedBull is treating Sainz and Kvyat like all the others and Ricciardo an Verstappen will be the key to new succes for them.

 

Everything else I think you are quit right :-)



#3 Button4life

Button4life
  • Member

  • 6,059 posts
  • Joined: October 14

Posted 02 March 2015 - 21:23

Max is a beast. I rate him very highly but that's because I've followed him. Maybe it doesn't say much, but he was only 4 tenths slower than Kvyat in FP1 Japan last year. That's pretty impressive I would say.


Edited by Button4life, 02 March 2015 - 21:30.


#4 Button4life

Button4life
  • Member

  • 6,059 posts
  • Joined: October 14

Posted 02 March 2015 - 21:26

Also I'm really wondering what Red Bull will do with Verstappen and Sainz. If Kvyat does well there's no need to replace him. Ricciardo is a very good driver so you can say the same about him. They both very young, they've atleast 7 seasons in them. Surely you can't wait that long to give Verstappen or Sainz a seat for Red Bull. Max 4 years I would say as after that they'll probably move to the likes of McLaren, Ferrari etc.



#5 sopa

sopa
  • Member

  • 12,230 posts
  • Joined: April 07

Posted 02 March 2015 - 21:26

I am most certainly looking forward to "likely wrong" opinions.:D

 

About Max Verstappen. He must be pretty talented to get fast-tracked into F1 so quickly. I have had doubts whether he could really properly get up to speed at the age 17, but if he can, I'd be even more impressed. By "up to speed" I mean properly and impressively competitive on F1 level, at least like what Kvyat was last year, who despite some mistakes and inconsistencies gave Vergne a good run for his money.

 

 

 

Roll on 2015 I do not expect an epic or in any way special season.

 

:cool:

 

I also feel the same way. 2015 feels like the same old from 2014.

 

But this is the opinion I would be very happy to be wrong about.:D



#6 sopa

sopa
  • Member

  • 12,230 posts
  • Joined: April 07

Posted 02 March 2015 - 21:34

Also I'm really wondering what Red Bull will do with Verstappen and Sainz. If Kvyat does well there's no need to replace him. Ricciardo is a very good driver so you can say the same about him. They both very young, they've atleast 7 seasons in them. Surely you can't wait that long to give Verstappen or Sainz a seat for Red Bull. Max 4 years I would say as after that they'll probably move to the likes of McLaren, Ferrari etc.

 

I think both Ricciardo and Kvyat will stay put in 2016 as well. Which means Max stays in STR for at least 2 seasons.

 

After that, there are various possibilities. One is that after two seasons RB will have concluded, which one of Ricciardo and Kvyat is a better driver. And the inferior one will be left aside, even if he is still good. Like Vergne has been left aside. Another option is that like Vettel, Ricciardo will be looking for a new challenge and wants to join another team in 2017. It also depends on how other teams perform and how Red Bull's performance evolves in post-Newey era.

 

In reality we know very little of what is going to happen in 2 years' time, but one thing is sure - Red Bull will make a decision, even if this means they need to drop a good driver like Vergne. Having many good drivers in their book might make some decisions harder, but then again more interesting, because you know you are having a good time if you are spoilt for choices.:D



#7 lars75

lars75
  • Member

  • 1,123 posts
  • Joined: February 13

Posted 02 March 2015 - 21:48

I am most certainly looking forward to "likely wrong" opinions. :D

 

About Max Verstappen. He must be pretty talented to get fast-tracked into F1 so quickly. I have had doubts whether he could really properly get up to speed at the age 17, but if he can, I'd be even more impressed. By "up to speed" I mean properly and impressively competitive on F1 level, at least like what Kvyat was last year, who despite some mistakes and inconsistencies gave Vergne a good run for his money.

 

 

 

I also feel the same way. 2015 feels like the same old from 2014.

 

But this is the opinion I would be very happy to be wrong about. :D

 

We didn't see him in a race yet, so we have to wait and see :-)

 

But according to the Judge13 he did some record braking simulator work at RedBull, while testing he did a great job. So I think when he can stay out of trouble in the first lap at Melbourne he will do just fine with his 'up to speed' performance.

 

And judging him by his progress during his career from his first race up till now, he will do fine. Maybe not at first, but he is a quick student! Watch some FWS and F3 footage I would like to say. ;-)

 

youtube.com/watch?v=rJQHa6nHV04

youtube.com/watch?v=7AviBQPW9RE

youtube.com/watch?v=MX1aXl80ORI

youtube.com/watch?v=tuscyIkHs-8

youtube.com/watch?v=W2s1eDKha3E

 

And there is plenty more of that  to support his racecraft and comming up to speed!


Edited by lars75, 02 March 2015 - 21:56.


#8 Button4life

Button4life
  • Member

  • 6,059 posts
  • Joined: October 14

Posted 02 March 2015 - 21:54

We didn't see him in a race yet, so we have to wait and see :-)

 

But according to the Judge13 he did some record braking simulator work at RedBull, while testing he did a great job. So I think when he can stay out of trouble in the first lap at Melbourne he will do just fine with his 'up to speed' performance.

 

And judging him by his progress during his career from his first race up till now, he will do fine. Maybe not at first, but he is a quick student! Watch some FWS and F3 footage I would like to say. ;-)

He's also a quick starter! The family Verstappen is full of races anyway. His sister is also in a race class, I'm not sure which one btw. Hopefully Robin Frijns and Nick De Vries will make it to the F1 too shortly.



#9 Gyno

Gyno
  • Member

  • 657 posts
  • Joined: March 13

Posted 02 March 2015 - 21:56

Once Mclaren get their technical issues sorted they will be 2nd-3rd best team.

 

Just wait and see, might take a few races before they get things sorted but when they do they will be fighthing for podiums maybe even wins.



#10 DanardiF1

DanardiF1
  • Member

  • 10,082 posts
  • Joined: February 10

Posted 02 March 2015 - 22:00

Yeah the suggestion they'll be bringing up the rear for anything than perhaps Australia is just silly. There doesn't seem to be anything majorly wrong with the Honda engine, just minor niggles that unfortunately have been time consuming in diagnosing and fixing.



#11 KWSN - DSM

KWSN - DSM
  • Member

  • 36,359 posts
  • Joined: January 03

Posted 03 March 2015 - 14:55

 

Interested in Alonso and how affected he will appear from his concussion, the way it was communicated, the way he was 3 days in the hospital, the way he did not participate in the last test in Barcelona, to me is obvious that he got a real hard conk on the head, we have previously seen drivers getting one (or two) never being quite the same as what they were before, Ralf Schumacher to me was one such driver.


 

:cool:

 

So this one now stretch into the first race of the season, considering how calm and assured we were all told to be via what was said publicly and officially this certainly bear truth to the idea that Alonso received a very severe concussion, I know that painting to bleak a picture should be done with great care. However is a very long time to rest after a concussion, which make me think there are continued effects from it. These can be headaches, dizziness, problems memory especially short term., vission issues as being very effected by bright light.

 

There are now rules in effect for NFL players getting a concussion, but most of them are back playing faster than Alonso will be back in a car. My wife had a concussion back in 2012 and took her close to 6 months before she felt being back to normal. When she had her concussion, I read up on it and a sad example I found were a great prospect Baseball Player, hit in the side of his head but on the helmet he wore. Got a concussion and never played another game.

 

I really hope that Alonso not racing in Melbourne is due to extreme caution and not because there are more to it than what we have been told so far.

 

:cool:



#12 trogggy

trogggy
  • Member

  • 9,216 posts
  • Joined: March 10

Posted 03 March 2015 - 15:03

So this one now stretch into the first race of the season, considering how calm and assured we were all told to be via what was said publicly and officially this certainly bear truth to the idea that Alonso received a very severe concussion...

It really doesn't.  At all.



#13 fastpast

fastpast
  • Member

  • 112 posts
  • Joined: February 15

Posted 03 March 2015 - 15:23

I like the forum title from the testing results, "observations, musing, and opinions"

 

I disagree with the statement that McLaren and Honda are in shambles, but of course this is an opinion for the first forum to generate interest.  I would look at the talent at these two partners and know that both have history on their side as well as highly paid engineers that will bring them success.  Again, in my opinion, just give them time.  These new power plants along with the hybrid energy storage systems are so complicated that the average observer, including myself, have trouble even understanding how they add to the ICE total horsepower, but that can be the start of another forum.

 

I followed the live testing for the three tests so far and I think that Max Verstappen has a lot of talent and will show his abilities as soon as the racing begins.

 

I also believe that Jensen Button is very underrated and given a competitive race car will show his true abilities this season.

 

Alonso having had a concussion is a set back for McLaren but hopefully he will return soon, missing the first race of the season still hurts the team, but Alonso has proven that he can drive anything, anywhere.  I liken him to some of the drivers that I loved in the past, Mansell, Prost, and Senna.

 

Hope that the season is more competitive than last year, I have always liked McLaren, Williams, and Renault when they had a team, not so much Ferrari, Mercedes, and Red Bull although I really like the determination that Rosberg exhibits.

 

I hope this forum gets a lot of responses, because everyone has an opinion and the banter back and forth is usually good and spirited.



#14 Radion

Radion
  • Member

  • 2,524 posts
  • Joined: January 13

Posted 03 March 2015 - 15:30

Once Mclaren get their technical issues sorted they will be 2nd-3rd best team.

 

Just wait and see, might take a few races before they get things sorted but when they do they will be fighthing for podiums maybe even wins.

How do you figure?



#15 RealRacing

RealRacing
  • Member

  • 2,541 posts
  • Joined: February 12

Posted 03 March 2015 - 15:42

Re McLAren-Honda. Last year McLAren had the best engine and where were they? This leads me to believe that it's not an engine problem but a car problem. The problems with a new engine were expected but why the assumption that once they sort the engine out, the car will be able to fight at the top? They weren't last season. The ALonso thing is also unfortunate, especially given their history. Not the best way to start this reunion.



#16 Atreiu

Atreiu
  • Member

  • 17,232 posts
  • Joined: May 07

Posted 03 March 2015 - 15:52

No matter what, 2015 won't be worse than 2013, 2011, 2004, 2002 or 1992. At least Rosberg can keep up with Hamilton and force him into fighting for each race.



#17 Radion

Radion
  • Member

  • 2,524 posts
  • Joined: January 13

Posted 03 March 2015 - 16:00

Re McLAren-Honda. Last year McLAren had the best engine and where were they? This leads me to believe that it's not an engine problem but a car problem. The problems with a new engine were expected but why the assumption that once they sort the engine out, the car will be able to fight at the top? They weren't last season. The ALonso thing is also unfortunate, especially given their history. Not the best way to start this reunion.

I guess because a lot of McLaren fans are impressed with how thight the rear of the car looks. 

Of course that's no indication of how fast the car might be, but well..,



#18 KWSN - DSM

KWSN - DSM
  • Member

  • 36,359 posts
  • Joined: January 03

Posted 03 March 2015 - 17:07

It really doesn't.  At all.

 

No? What then?

 

:cool:



#19 trogggy

trogggy
  • Member

  • 9,216 posts
  • Joined: March 10

Posted 03 March 2015 - 17:10

No? What then?

 

:cool:

It suggests very strongly that he had a concussion, and that he's been advised to avoid the risk of another one.



Advertisement

#20 FanboyGermany

FanboyGermany
  • New Member

  • 15 posts
  • Joined: February 15

Posted 03 March 2015 - 17:10

Here someone did a winter championship - giving points for all three tests as if they were GP 3 weekends 

text in german but you find the numbers below the article...

http://f1-insider.co...ist-wm-favorit/



#21 Atreiu

Atreiu
  • Member

  • 17,232 posts
  • Joined: May 07

Posted 03 March 2015 - 17:14

IIRC, Rosberg was also the free practice champion of 2009. Or the friday champion, something like that.


Edited by Atreiu, 03 March 2015 - 17:15.


#22 ninetyzero

ninetyzero
  • Member

  • 706 posts
  • Joined: November 14

Posted 03 March 2015 - 17:18

Here someone did a winter championship - giving points for all three tests as if they were GP 3 weekends 

text in german but you find the numbers below the article...

http://f1-insider.co...ist-wm-favorit/

 

Looks like McLaren are going to have a decent season in 2014....



#23 A3

A3
  • Member

  • 32,104 posts
  • Joined: February 00

Posted 03 March 2015 - 19:44

Max is a beast. I rate him very highly but that's because I've followed him. Maybe it doesn't say much, but he was only 4 tenths slower than Kvyat in FP1 Japan last year. That's pretty impressive I would say.


Everytime he got into an F1 car he said he didn't push. Don't know if it's arrogance or not, but I'm extremely curious.

#24 KWSN - DSM

KWSN - DSM
  • Member

  • 36,359 posts
  • Joined: January 03

Posted 03 March 2015 - 19:54

We have seen special drivers arrive before, 'they just have it' either Max does or he does not, I in no way doubt he is very talented but I do have a 'problem' with a driver going from Karting to F1 in one year, especially at the age he did, presumably he will deliver and deliver fast proving me wrong and show himself as the real deal before he is out of his teens. Now that he is here I am looking forward to see how he perform against or with all the expectations around him.

 

:cool:



#25 Jimisgod

Jimisgod
  • Member

  • 4,954 posts
  • Joined: July 09

Posted 04 March 2015 - 00:26

Eh.

Quali Pace:

Mercedes
Ferrari
Williams
Red Bull
McLaren
Lotus
Toro Rosso
Force India
Sauber
(Manor)

Race Pace:

Mercedes
Red Bull
Ferrari
Williams
Lotus
McLaren
Toro Rosso
Force India
Sauber
(Manor)