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Virtual WRC Commissioner 1.0


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#1 ClubmanGT

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Posted 05 March 2015 - 02:49

Let's play a game. Imagine, you wake up as head of the World Rally Commission. You find out, overnight, that the sport has collapsed. The old WRC is dead and no more. You have willing broadcasters and enough sponsorship interest to support a proper championship, provided it brings in the crowds. Current and old manufacturers are interested to see what you come up with, and are coyly indicating they'll consider anything that gets them more exposure. The FIA has asked you to lay out a new set of regulations and structure the sport into something fitting as the pinnacle of rallying.

 

What do you do?

 

Do you bring in a new era of homologation and aim for Group A regulations to try and get fans on board with cars they can buy?

 

Do you create an open-class and introduce strict spectator requirements for events wanting to be sanctioned as WRC rounds?

 

Do you slash the calendar to half its current size or do you add more rounds?

 

Do you go back to basics and mandate the WRC be contested by BDA Escorts and replica Lancia Stratii?

 

Do you create longer rallies or go for something similar to what VW wanted with their superstage event?

 

Do you create a Historic World Rally Championship for owners of ye olde Group B/4/A cars to run alongside WRC events?

 

Do you create separate rules for AWD and RWD cars?

 

Do you ban anyone called Sebastien/Sebastian from entering?

 

Do you tear up the promoters contract and take everything in-house or do you give them concessions over things like power stages/Rally 2?

 

I'm legitimately interested in what RCers would do if they had a clean sheet of paper.

 

What would your ultimate rally championship look like? 



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#2 tormave

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Posted 10 March 2015 - 07:29

I'd do away with WRC and continue the series with group R cars, with the R5s competing for the overall. I'd free up the formula for the organizers to create the kind of rally format they want, as long as driver and spectator safety was taken care of. Manufacturers would be free to take part, but with identical cars they sell to privateer teams. The current WRC only manufacturers could take part under RRC rules for a transitionary period, like for a couple of years. The RRC rules would change to progressively weaken the performance during these 2 years.

 

I'd keep the rule of starting in the order of championship standings (it's a decent implementation of success ballast), but drop rally 2 and the power stage. I'd deduct 5 championship points everytime the leader was whining about the start order.

 

I'd put continuous live TV coverage (think rally radio with moving pictures) and splits on the Internet and forget about the daily 30 minute recap show.


Edited by tormave, 10 March 2015 - 18:04.


#3 Peat

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Posted 10 March 2015 - 08:30

To start, I'd need to know what was wrong with it. The problem is, I honestly don't know why I don't give a **** about WRC anymore. I still love rallying, I just forget it's on and when I don't, I can't be bothered to watch the coverage....

Is it the cars?
Maybe. I mean, they are amazing bits of kit, but still, they are hatchbacks. You don't get excited about seeing a Polo on the road as you did with an Impreza or an Evo. 

Is it the 'stars'?
No doubting Ogier's talent, but I wonder about the depth sometimes. Latvala is such a choker, Mikklesen just isn't quite it. And everyone else? Pretty much anonymous, well except for the standard Kubica retirement. Where are the heros or kooky madmen?

Is it the format?
For sure, I don't have any romantic attachment to many of the rallies. No Safari, 1000 Lakes, NZ, Corsica? And then where are the mammoth stages, the dawn starts, the night finishes? It all seems so formulaic (of what i've seen over the past few years)

Maybe it's the age of instant information we're in. I used to wait up expectantly for 'Rally Report' on BBC and it was like watching live because you had no other way of knowing what had happened. 

I just don't know. 

I hereby decline the offer of the role. 


Edited by Peat, 10 March 2015 - 08:31.


#4 chunder27

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Posted 10 March 2015 - 10:40

All the rallies are still there, and the events are still pretty good as a live experience.

 

The issue always has been tv coverage and the fact that rallying simply does not work as a tv package unless there is somehting to watch.

 

It only worked in the UK initially in the Escort days because it was almost working man, and you had huge personalities like Clark, Vatanen, Pond.  Then it faded a little, then came back with group B cars as it was so spectacular and you still had the personalities like Alen, Toivonen, Rohrl who spoke their mind and drove amazingly.  And finally you had the early 00's with terrestrial coverage on C4, two drivers in McRae and Burns at the top of their game and a couple of evil interlopers in Gronholm and Makinen who were just as good

 

Since then the sport has suffered long periods of domination by one team or driver.  That helps no-one other than that driver and the team he drives for. It makes the rallies uninteresting, it makes the others teams think what is the point and it makes fans turn off because it predictable, boring and frankly dull to watch.

 

The first thing to do is try and encourage some competition.  Then things might happen.

 

Until then anything else is a waste of time



#5 noikeee

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Posted 10 March 2015 - 11:45

I've thought about this for only like 10 seconds so forgive me if anything isn't feasible or sensible.

 

- get coverage on major free-to-air channels, even if this means selling the coverage stupidly cheap, nobody cares when it's buried on pay tv or obscure if free channels. This is how they completely killed the public interest in the sport over time.

 

- get rid of the power stage and broadcast 2 or 3 live stages at the START of the rally instead, like 2nd stage and 5th stage or something. Broadcasting the very last stage is dumb because by then the rally is almost always over, it's the nature of the thing. As a kid growing up watching the Rally Vinho da Madeira (local European Rally Championship event) it was always so exciting to wake up early the 1st day and watch the 2nd/3rd stages live as you were starting to learn who was quick and who wasn't, and the crazy-quick but crash-happy guys still hadn't crashed yet. The following day things almost always had settled and whilst there was still a stage or two on the TV, it was less exciting.

 

- more tarmac events. it should be something like 40% gravel 40% tarmac 20% snow. not 80% gravel 10% tarmac 10% snow as it is now. This made the championship all about gravel drivers, and thrown away the excitement of the randomness of results caused by drivers being specialists in one surface or the other.

 

- bring back the 1980s style of F1 points scoring, of dropping your worst X scores. Again this would favour the crash-happy crazy-quick specialists, instead of people that are boring but reasonably reliable in all surfaces. And maybe introduce more unreliability, it's so boring that you KNOW cars are almost guaranteed to last the whole event.

 

- maybe even be more aggressive with tyres, like F1 and circuit racing does. Limited sets of compounds, compounds that are too soft, that sort of thing. Make people work for their tyre strategy to introduce randomness in results.

 

- more night stages. They shouldn't necessarily be aired live as you can't see ****, but they make for spectacular onboard footage.

 

- cars that are more aggressive. No idea on how to achieve this, but maybe more power, more weight (to keep speeds in check). I don't mind hatchbacks, I mind boring hatchbacks. Remember the Peugeot 106s and 206s, they were cool as hell. Modern Hyundais are awful.

 

- MORE cars. I know we have 4 manufacturers now, so that's okay, but maybe mandate that to score for constructors you need to sell cars to privateers for decent fixed prices. And introduce a budget cap so that VW can't outspend everyone else to death. Worst case scenario I'm going to suggest something that's almost heresy and I completely hate in principle, but could keep competition close: a small amount of extra ballast for the constructor that won last years title. This would be slightly better than BOP or success ballast, as you still have real competition within constructors, and in-team team-mate battles remain truthful.

 

- don't ignore the other classes, promote them. As it is now WRC2, WRC3, Junior WRC, nobody cares about that crap and they barely get a mention in the coverage. The classes need to be uniformized so that the local drivers count towards these side championships instead of being completely ignored, this would hugely increase the number of cars in these classes too. Who gives a crap about WRC2 when it's a total of 3 or 4 cars of journeyman talentless rich guys, because the only ones who have the $ to do the whole calendar, and they're shielded from the much more competitive locals by being scored in a different category with perhaps slightly quicker cars. Sort that out.

 

- Promote grassroots competition all over the world in national championships, cheap cars, heavily promoted single-car trophies etc. This is how you promote talent, the reason we don't have more Ogiers is that there's not enough people doing rallying, and the few that are good enough don't get the chances to move up the ladder.



#6 ClubmanGT

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Posted 11 March 2015 - 02:51

For what it's worth, here's my suggestions:

 

Bring back the classic rallies that we're missing such as NZ and if a new Safari rally can organised, do it. I would also consider trimming some of the newer events such as Poland and Mexico to make room for them.

 

Homologation, Group A style: Bring in a minimum car size and a minimum road car production run. The added benefit of this is that cars that look virtually identical to WRC cars would be on the road every day, even when the WRC is not in town. R cars are fine but no motorist today can relate to them, let alone buy one. Enforce a price limit so we don't end up with rocket sleds - most of the old Group A cars cost the same in the early 90s anyway.

 

Longer events: If drivers want to compete in short sprints made for TV then they can go to Rallycross. Repeating stages and having fewer of them a day makes following a rally live even less interesting. Longer days and longer rallies.

 

I agree with Noikeee, the biggest televised stage should be on Day One at night and it should be in a major population centre. It should be THE spectator stage of the rally and then the hardcore fans can follow the cars through the woods and out into the back of beyond.

 

WRC2 to be a Historic Escort-only series: Use identical specced Escorts with sequential boxes and introduce it as a Regional Rally class. If this means the FIA commissioning a run of MK1/MK2 Escort shells then so be it.

 

Cost cap on cars: All post homologation modification to engines/suspension on the homologated road car to be standardised and limited to a certain amount. Either we get mental looking road cars as well as rally cars or the rally cars will end up bearing some relation to road cars. Either way, this is better than what we have now.

 

Ditch the promoter: Take everything in house. Do a deal with console manufacturers to stream coverage through an app. Give the video game license to someone who knows what they're doing. 



#7 chunder27

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Posted 11 March 2015 - 11:19

Where are you going to get all these Escort rally shells from then eh?



#8 ArnageWRC

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Posted 11 March 2015 - 11:40

http://forums.autosp...l=rallying 2011

 

 

http://forums.autosp...l=rallying 2011

 

Both are a few years old, but some of the points remain.

 

Personally, the action on the stages is pretty good, and watching live is fantastic. TV coverage just doesn't do it justice. And that is the main problem. Also, the promotion is still poor. RedBull don't, or won't understand the sport - not helped by Jost Capito egging them on to bring in 'gimmicks'. We already have a rally based 'made for TV' sport; it's called World RX, and very good it is too; as seen the other night on Top Gear. The WRC should be going in the other direction.



#9 AlexLangheck

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Posted 11 March 2015 - 11:46

I've got lots of different ideas; but can't decide which are more likely to happen.
First, decide what the WRC is for. Is it an entertainment motorsport? Or is it to prove car technology?

First, I'll respond to some suggestions;

The 'classic' rallies; Yes, the sport should always run with them; Monte, 1000 Lakes, Acropolis, Safari, NZ, GB. However, even the ones still left are 'watered down' shadows of their past. I can't see the Safari ever coming back, but an African 'safari type' event is needed. Acropolis seems to have 'money issues', but surely that is why we have a promoter? They should help events to put them on. Dropping NZ is an absolute scandal; the best event, and best roads in the WRC - left off for another identikit gravel event in Australia. Finally, encourage Monte and GB to run proper Endurance events, rather than the 210miles they have at the moment. Let them run from Thursday lunchtime to Sat/Sun.

Homologation Group A; Sorry, it's not going to happen. The manufacturers specifically asked for its ending, and the WRC car formula. I wish this wasn't the case; I remember the forest car parks full of the GpA specials; Celica GT4, Escort/ Sierra RS Cosworth, Lancia Delta, Sunny GTi-R, Impreza, Lancer, etc A Polo R, Fiesta ST, DS3 FWD hatch is not really the same.

Longer events; Yes, agree on this. But not all of them. That's been my bugbear over the years. No variety. Every event is basically the same. I'd have 12 events, and allow 3-4 Endurance events (mainly Monte, GB) I'd even go the other way; 1-2 sprint events; starting Friday lunchtime, and finishing Saturday night; however, it would short, sharp and intense. No huge gaps in the middle of the day, as we have now. Look at the proposed Corsica route. Not perfect, but it's different, kicking off with a 30 mile stage. The WRC has become far too formulaic/ generic.

TV Coverage; I thought the Monte got their first stage right, and others should do the same. A proper stage Live on the Thursday night. A short SuperSpecial is not what we need, and is also just lazy. Also, the choice of the live stages is often unimaginative.

WRC2 Escorts only; Why just Escorts? I love them as well, but too many people think they ARE rallying. I think you'll find that the Fiat Abarth 131 and Lancia Stratos both beat the Escort to WRC Manufacturer wins. Add in the 911 and Alpine A110.

Cost caps; I'm not sure this could work. And in any case, the richer teams will find a way to outspend the opposition.

Ditch the Promoter; Ha ha, yes... I have to say I've been disappointed wirh them. They don't seem to understand how the sport works. I also think there are still too many ex NorthOne/ ISC people involved; the coverage is hardly any different. I hoped for a new broom, we've got more of the same.


Good discussion piece though; I'll get back when I've thought it out properly.

#10 ClubmanGT

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Posted 12 March 2015 - 02:24

Homologation Group A; Sorry, it's not going to happen. The manufacturers specifically asked for its ending, and the WRC car formula. I wish this wasn't the case; I remember the forest car parks full of the GpA specials; Celica GT4, Escort/ Sierra RS Cosworth, Lancia Delta, Sunny GTi-R, Impreza, Lancer, etc A Polo R, Fiesta ST, DS3 FWD hatch is not really the same.
 

 

Initially I would have said this too, but Ford's very recent Focus RS announcement indicates there is a market for zippy AWD performance cars, because they're planning on selling an AWD hatch with 300HP. With decent minimum dimensions it might be possible to give the series a grounding in road cars again. 

 

Where are you going to get all these Escort rally shells from then eh?

 

License them from Ford and then use something similar to BMH Heritage Mini shells. I'm no engineer but if it works for other British cars then it could in theory be applied to the Escort.

 

WRC2 Escorts only; Why just Escorts? I love them as well, but too many people think they ARE rallying. I think you'll find that the Fiat Abarth 131 and Lancia Stratos both beat the Escort to WRC Manufacturer wins. Add in the 911 and Alpine A110.

 

This was based on well-thought out argument that 'I like the shape'. A WRC2 in classic rear wheel drive format would at least offer something different on the stages. The key point is that WRC should be affordable enough that you can roll it out in the regions - rallies in NZ are still being won by Imprezas and Evos all these years later for a very good reason. 


Edited by ClubmanGT, 12 March 2015 - 02:25.


#11 chunder27

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Posted 12 March 2015 - 10:13

THey are winning in NZ fella because theya re Asian.

 

See whats winning rallies in Barbados?  A whole variety of things that dont cost the earth to ship there.

 

NZ has always been about Mitsu and Subaru coz theya re Japanese. There is a small Ford presence there but Citroen? Peugeot, Kiwis wont know what theya re mate.

 

It's to do with whats available.

 

Probably also the reason why WRC dont go there anymore, no marketing



#12 ClubmanGT

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Posted 12 March 2015 - 10:21

THey are winning in NZ fella because theya re Asian.

 

See whats winning rallies in Barbados?  A whole variety of things that dont cost the earth to ship there.

 

NZ has always been about Mitsu and Subaru coz theya re Japanese. There is a small Ford presence there but Citroen? Peugeot, Kiwis wont know what theya re mate.

 

It's to do with whats available.

 

Probably also the reason why WRC dont go there anymore, no marketing

 

 

Show me an AWD Citroen available to the general public that can be turned into a competitive gravel rally car like an EVO or a Subaru can. They just don't exist.

 

We've currently got a replica S1 and a home-built 206 with a FR3.5 engine competing in our national rally championship. I think you'll find NZers know what European performance cars are. 



#13 SirVanhan

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Posted 12 March 2015 - 10:34

First of all they should get rid of the Rally 2 rule: if you retire, you retire. That would make a huge difference in approaching an event, make everyone nervous and prone to mistakes. One of the main problems, to me, is that WRC is not unpredictable anymore. It's all formulaic, all gravel, all stages run more than one time. Make it tough and people will see it again as a challenge, both for drivers and manufacturers. Promoters change the sport to appeal the TVs, but if you change the sport to make it better, for the sport itself, then the TVs will be smart enough to spot the appeal.



#14 chunder27

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Posted 12 March 2015 - 11:17

A company like Citroen makes family cars. Same as Hyundai, Suzuki. I do not understand why they are in rallying.

 

Subaru, Mitisubishi, Skoda, SEAT all capitalised on thier road cars by linking in with the rally program. As did Peugeot to a small extent.  Ford have such money and a loyal following they can afford to make cars like the Cosworth, RS, ST. They will sell them. Theya re not exact replicas anymore, but it matters not. You can market a VR Skoda, a Cupra SEAT an RS Ford with teh raly program.

 

It doesn't matter if you can't buy a road car version.

 

Mitsy and Subari have dominated the Group N market for decades, Ford did before that. That is why they are dominant in that side of the world, nothing else is available. Has nothing to do with anything else. I'm sure if some rich guy wanted he could buy a C4 or DS3, just like guys do in Russia, Barbados or China. But it costs a massive amount and you have no spares backup like you would for Japanese cars.



#15 AlexLangheck

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Posted 18 March 2015 - 00:27

I'd have 12/13 rounds, with an even split between gravel & tarmac, plus the snow round in Sweden/ Norway.

I'd allow lightweight 2WD cars to have more power than the 4WD cars, and incorporate a tarmac trophy and a gravel trophy. As well as the WRC Title. I'd like to think we would see hot hatches, GT cars, sport saloons, etc turbo, N/A engines. There is little variety in modern WRC.

3/4 events will be 'Endurance' events, so can run from Thursday, and have a good level of freedom. Similarly, 2/3 'sprint' type events; over in 2 days, running Friday to Saturday. The rest run as now.

I'd bring back the qualifying stage to decide the running order, even for tarmac.

I'd encourage event organisers to run a proper stage on the Thursday night, rather than a boring SSS.

I'll try and think of more ideas, for this discussion. Possibly ones more likely to happen.

#16 ArnageWRC

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Posted 24 March 2015 - 22:34

Well this discussion died a death...... maybe the WRC just doesn't grab the motorsport fans attention....and especially now most of the other series have started.