Jump to content


Photo
* * - - - 2 votes

Daniel Ricciardo vs. Daniil Kvyat 2015


  • Please log in to reply
1704 replies to this topic

Poll: Daniel Ricciardo vs. Daniil Kvyat 2015 (292 member(s) have cast votes)

Who will come out on top in the Red Bull teammate battle?

  1. Ricciardo will dominate Kvyat (Wins over 80% of Qualifying and Race sessions) (89 votes [30.48%])

    Percentage of vote: 30.48%

  2. Ricciardo will be clearly better (Wins over 65% of Q and R sessions) (115 votes [39.38%])

    Percentage of vote: 39.38%

  3. Ricciardo will only be slightly better (Wins between 50-65% of Q and R sessions) (35 votes [11.99%])

    Percentage of vote: 11.99%

  4. Too close to call (28 votes [9.59%])

    Percentage of vote: 9.59%

  5. Kvyat will only be slightly better (Wins between 50-65% of Q and R sessions) (15 votes [5.14%])

    Percentage of vote: 5.14%

  6. Kvyat will be clearly better (Wins over 65% of Q and R sessions) (5 votes [1.71%])

    Percentage of vote: 1.71%

  7. Kvyat will dominate Ricciardo (Wins over 80% of Q and R sessions) (5 votes [1.71%])

    Percentage of vote: 1.71%

Vote Guests cannot vote

#1 DrivenF1

DrivenF1
  • Member

  • 1,050 posts
  • Joined: March 11

Posted 11 March 2015 - 16:56

f1-ricciardo-kvyat-redbull-inline.jpg

It’s one of the most intriguing battles on the grid – Dan vs. Dan? Who will gain supremacy and ultimately Christian Horner/Helmut Marko/Dietrich Mateschitz’s affections…

10eb35af0ab5df1fbb5ae9609b14986e_169_l.j

 

Not only does the loser get the shame and ignominy of losing but they’ll probably be consigned to Formula E!*

 

Both Red Bull drivers are likely to be in the thick of it this year, with hot competition from Ferrari, Williams and even potentially Lotus. Daniel Ricciardo is the incumbent, fresh off an almost miracle year, so holds a lot of the advantage going into 2015. However this might not count for much as Red Bull promoted driver equality in 2014, allowing Ricciardo to get the better of 4x world champion Sebastian Vettel. Kvyat has much to prove but should be given the tools and support to thrive.

 

Interestingly this is one of the few head-to-heads where performance against another driver can be compared and used to assess how closely the two may match up; see this interesting article which uses performance Jean-Eric Vergne as a benchmark.

 

The data suggests that Kvyat, while more inexperienced than Ricciardo, could be a threat especially on one-lap pace when he gets to grips with the Red Bull car. Despite this there is little evidence to suggest that Kvyat can trouble Ricciardo in the races, especially if Ricciardo performs miracles on race day like in 2014.

 

As we all know, history does not dictate the future so have your say! Who do you think will come out on top? (Vote on the poll at top of the thread)

 

I'll continue to provide an update on a race-by-race basis throughout the year (in the form of a chart). I hope you all enjoy the ride that is the 2015 season - it's almost here.

 

along with Buemi, Vergne, Alguersuari and Felix da Costa


Edited by Cult, 11 March 2015 - 17:24.


Advertisement

#2 sabjit

sabjit
  • Member

  • 2,992 posts
  • Joined: October 12

Posted 11 March 2015 - 17:01

I've been told we're not allowed these until Saturday.



#3 Blackmamba

Blackmamba
  • Member

  • 329 posts
  • Joined: January 15

Posted 11 March 2015 - 17:07

Kyviat is overrated. He got a pasting from JEV and he will get an even harsher one from Ricciardo. He got a lot of praise for his performance but it still escapes me why. Rookie of the year indeed, with what was it, 8 points?



#4 Exb

Exb
  • Member

  • 3,961 posts
  • Joined: March 12

Posted 11 March 2015 - 17:08

Nice OP

 

I'm very much looking forward to seeing how Daniel and Daniil get on - Daniel was great last year so I'm hoping to see the same again from him as he is great fun to watch race and I have been following Daniil since GP3 where he was very impressive. Daniel seems very quick with good race craft as well and his experience should be enough to see him have the upper hand in points at the end of the season but I expect (hope) Daniil will show enough for it to be a successful season and prove Red Bull were right to promote him to the senior team. Hopefully the car (and engine) are good enough for them to at least be able to put some pressure on the Mercs occasionally and certainly be in the fight for the podium.


Edited by Exb, 11 March 2015 - 17:09.


#5 Gilles4Ever

Gilles4Ever
  • RC Forum Admin

  • 24,873 posts
  • Joined: June 04

Posted 11 March 2015 - 17:14

I've been told we're not allowed these until Saturday.


Seems you don't read your private messages.  ;)

#6 goingthedistance

goingthedistance
  • RC Forum Host

  • 4,471 posts
  • Joined: May 10

Posted 11 March 2015 - 17:15

I'm really looking forward to this battle. I've been a RIC fan since his early WSR days but there's something about Kyvat, I really like him and think he has a big future in F1. Whilst I admired Seb's abilities I was not a fan of him overall so it's going to be odd to have my favourite driver up against someone I would almost call my second favourite driver. 

 

If I had to make a prediction I think the two Dan's will be even in quali from early on, but RIC's tyre management in the races will probably allow him to win the battle for points at year end. 



#7 nikksan

nikksan
  • New Member

  • 27 posts
  • Joined: June 14

Posted 11 March 2015 - 17:22

Ricciardo is way too good for Kvyat at the moment,in the future,maybe.

They are both very good qualifyers,I think things will be kinda equal in this aspect but in races I expect RIC to be outstanding.



#8 SanDiegoGo

SanDiegoGo
  • Member

  • 1,065 posts
  • Joined: July 13

Posted 11 March 2015 - 17:35

it all depends on how the rouble is doing. if mother russia is weak then kvyat will struggle. if it strong like bear then he will crush the australian.

 

it will be good to get some context to how ricciardo smashed vettel last season. seeing how well he and the car fair against a new talent will help shed light on just what happened last year.



#9 Andrew Hope

Andrew Hope
  • Member

  • 7,911 posts
  • Joined: October 09

Posted 11 March 2015 - 17:39

I have $5 on Kvyat to win the WDC, not because I don't think Ricciardo will kill him but because this is a dangerous sport where people get injured, a dirty sport where cheaters tattletale on other cheaters and sometimes the 3rd-best driver ends up the official WDC, and because 12/1 is way too good odds for a Red Bull driver not named Mark Webber.



#10 sopa

sopa
  • Member

  • 12,230 posts
  • Joined: April 07

Posted 11 March 2015 - 17:57

Kyviat is overrated. He got a pasting from JEV and he will get an even harsher one from Ricciardo. He got a lot of praise for his performance but it still escapes me why. Rookie of the year indeed, with what was it, 8 points?

 

I think the point score doesn't really do justice to Kvyat, because looking at race weekends he really was neck-and-neck with Vergne most of the time. Point score 22-8 would indicate Vergne trashed him, but based on performances I'd say there is no way it was the case.

 

However, I expect Ricciardo to come out on top. More comfortably in race trim than in qualifying trim, where it could even be surprisingly close.



#11 sennafan24

sennafan24
  • Member

  • 8,362 posts
  • Joined: July 13

Posted 11 March 2015 - 18:00

For D.R, this is the difficult 2nd album (or in this case 2nd year). It is going to be very difficult for him to impress as much as he did during his first year with Red Bull. I am looking forward to see him in action though. D.R looked the finished article last year, a great all-round driver. This year will test his year-on-year consistency. I have seen nothing to suggest he will falter, but we shall see.

 

Kvyat has shown potential, but he is far from the finished article. Unless he has come on leaps and bounds over Winter, I see D.R having the measure of him in race trim. I think Kvyat will have the odd day where he shines in qualifying, but I really don't expect much beyond that. This is a bit like pushing a young boxer into money fights before they have matured their skills and learnt how to cover up their weaknesses. (picture Amir Khan fighting for the world title in 2006)

 

Or maybe R.B have seen something I haven't. I did not think D.R would do much last year beyond a few strong qualifying sessions. Look how that turned out   ;)



#12 SealTheDiffuser

SealTheDiffuser
  • Member

  • 2,416 posts
  • Joined: June 12

Posted 11 March 2015 - 18:06

RIC will have him in the pocket lika a teddy bear.



#13 P123

P123
  • Member

  • 23,842 posts
  • Joined: February 09

Posted 11 March 2015 - 19:41

Based on his performances last year against the resident 4x WDC you would expect Ricciardo to have the edge. I'm sure Kvyat will push him in qualifying. You do have to wonder if Kvyat has been thrust into the senior team a year too early as his racecraft needs some polishing.

#14 DutchQuicksilver

DutchQuicksilver
  • Member

  • 6,304 posts
  • Joined: June 11

Posted 11 March 2015 - 19:53

Voted for Ricciardo will be clearly better. Like already posted, Kvyat was dominated by Vergne last year, who himself was dominated by Ricciardo. But, not only that though. Kvyat is fast over one lap, but his racecraft is very poor. I haven't seen one good race from him last year, and his lack of experience will cost him. He isn't ready for a topteam, and this season will prove that. Of course, the Red Bull is a fast car, so Kvyat will score more than enough points, but will be comfortably outscored by Ricciardo.



#15 ConsiderAndGo

ConsiderAndGo
  • Member

  • 9,683 posts
  • Joined: May 09

Posted 11 March 2015 - 19:59

Ricciardo will eat Kvyat for breakfast.


Edited by ConsiderAndGo, 11 March 2015 - 19:59.


#16 Kyo

Kyo
  • Member

  • 1,313 posts
  • Joined: February 11

Posted 11 March 2015 - 20:29

Since the ban on in season testing drivers showed a big jump in quality from 1st to 2nd season. I expect the same from Kvyat. Said that, I still believe Ricciardo will easily beat him.



#17 Jovanotti

Jovanotti
  • Member

  • 8,255 posts
  • Joined: October 11

Posted 11 March 2015 - 20:39

Kvyat is clearly talented, but not as good as Ricciardo. Dan gave me a very rare feeling last year, especially how he managed and executed his strategy in Hungary or his overtakes in Monza - the feeling of witnessing the birth of a champion. Therefore I'm convinced he'll have the upper hand in this duel.

#18 NateF1

NateF1
  • Member

  • 105 posts
  • Joined: August 14

Posted 11 March 2015 - 20:50

Ric made a big step up last year, I'm not sure there are many drivers on the grid that could really trouble him now. Key for Kvyat is just to stay close enough often enough, and to keep improving.

 

Interesting snippet from the Toro Rosso mechanics/engineers last year, who said they thought Kvyat was the real deal, although they weren't sure he was quite at the same level as Ricciardo.



#19 DrivenF1

DrivenF1
  • Member

  • 1,050 posts
  • Joined: March 11

Posted 11 March 2015 - 21:45

How long do you think Kvyat should be given in the car before judging him?

 

- no time, straight away

- 3 or so races

- half the season

- only evaluate after the full season

 

It's tricky but it's hard to see him getting to grips with the Red Bull car straight away so I'd give him 3-5 races to get up to speed. 

 

Very few feel Kvyat is going to be able to trouble Ricciardo, I'm still not sure but given Dan's 2014 year it's hard to imagine him being beaten. The same could be said about Seb after his 2013 year though (although there's the obvious caveat of the engine change). 


Edited by Cult, 11 March 2015 - 21:47.


Advertisement

#20 RockBrocaine

RockBrocaine
  • Member

  • 107 posts
  • Joined: March 13

Posted 11 March 2015 - 22:17

I think Kyvatt may edge Daniel in quali, but in racecraft, I find Kyvatt lacking. He seems to go too agressive at the wrong times and isn't as calculated throughout the race. Still don't understand him over JEV.



#21 V8 Fireworks

V8 Fireworks
  • Member

  • 10,824 posts
  • Joined: June 06

Posted 11 March 2015 - 22:20

I don't know.  It's hard to say.  :)

 

Presumably Danny Ric is fast giving he dusted Vettel easily, but that doesn't mean Kvyat is not a future WDC!  :eek:



#22 RSNS

RSNS
  • Member

  • 1,521 posts
  • Joined: June 02

Posted 11 March 2015 - 23:05

Vettel was about as good, or slightly better, than Alonso, who is considered the benchmark. Ricciardo made mincemeat of him. Unless Kvyat is a Fangio he stands no chance.



#23 RainyAfterlifeDaylight

RainyAfterlifeDaylight
  • Member

  • 4,684 posts
  • Joined: February 15

Posted 11 March 2015 - 23:14

Daniel Ricciardo will beat Daniil Kvyat, but not as severe as what he did to Sebastian Vettel in 2014, because I believe Daniil Kvyat is better than Sebastian Vettel.


Edited by RYARLE, 11 March 2015 - 23:15.


#24 V8 Fireworks

V8 Fireworks
  • Member

  • 10,824 posts
  • Joined: June 06

Posted 11 March 2015 - 23:26

Vettel was about as good, or slightly better, than Alonso, who is considered the benchmark.

 

 

:confused:  :confused:  :confused:  :confused:

How the heck did you work that out!?

 

"Vettel was  better than Webber" < FTFY



#25 Brother Fox

Brother Fox
  • Member

  • 6,110 posts
  • Joined: January 01

Posted 12 March 2015 - 00:31

Overall I think DR will have the edge because although he showed some great stuff as a rookie last year, DK still looked too much like a rookie even at the end of the year. I think one more year in Toro Rosso would have done him wonders.

 

DR will have a big target on him this year though, he slipped under the radar a little last year I think and that allowed him to surprise. It happens in all sports that a bloke has a breakthough year and then struggles a bit in the year after. Should be a good watch.

 

Very interested to see what DK can do with a quick car though.

 

 

And of course the Vettel comparisons will be entertaining.



#26 lbennie

lbennie
  • Member

  • 5,200 posts
  • Joined: May 09

Posted 12 March 2015 - 00:32

:confused:  :confused:  :confused:  :confused:

How the heck did you work that out!?

 

"Vettel was  better than Webber" < FTFY

 

Well until they become team mates we wont know, all we can do is compare achievements and Vettel is very well sorted in that department.

 

The only (very loose) distant link between them, driver wise, is webber > rosberg  back in 06.



#27 RedOne

RedOne
  • Member

  • 2,449 posts
  • Joined: December 11

Posted 12 March 2015 - 02:28

Daniel for me because he makes less mistakes under pressure and his consistency will be too much for Kvyat to live with.

Edited by RedOne, 12 March 2015 - 02:29.


#28 Disgrace

Disgrace
  • Member

  • 31,165 posts
  • Joined: January 10

Posted 12 March 2015 - 02:44

Ricciardo has five years in age and two and half seasons more experience than Kvyat. Daniel is the polished article whereas Daniil is obviously not yet, but moving him to Red Bull was the only logical choice. I wouldn't expect the latter to beat the former over a season, but I wouldn't write the Russian off either. If Kvyat can build on last year in which the signs that he was a teenage rookie were nearly nonexistent, I think it's mainly mission accomplished. Kvyat isn't a short-term project and shouldn't be treated as such. I would like to see him giving Ricciardo some trouble in qualifying at least, and equipped with the best strategic crew in the pitlane, perhaps improved race performances.



#29 Ricciardo2014

Ricciardo2014
  • Member

  • 967 posts
  • Joined: September 11

Posted 12 March 2015 - 02:48

I can't really picture DK having the better of DR this season.
I've no doubt he will out perform Dan on occasion, but over the whole year Dan will beat him comfortably.

Dan's recent comments along the lines of "learning from the new generation" point to the fact he considers himself far from the finished product, and that is ominous considering last years effort.

I don't think he will spank the young fella like he did Sebastian, but his points haul will well and truly exceed DK's.

#30 RockBrocaine

RockBrocaine
  • Member

  • 107 posts
  • Joined: March 13

Posted 12 March 2015 - 02:59

I can't really picture DK having the better of DR this season.
I've no doubt he will out perform Dan on occasion, but over the whole year Dan will beat him comfortably.

Dan's recent comments along the lines of "learning from the new generation" point to the fact he considers himself far from the finished product, and that is ominous considering last years effort.

I don't think he will spank the young fella like he did Sebastian, but his points haul will well and truly exceed DK's.

I'd like to hear the logic, that made DK a better pick than his teammate who beat him definitively last year.



#31 aramos

aramos
  • Member

  • 1,498 posts
  • Joined: December 14

Posted 12 March 2015 - 03:17

Everyone would expect Daniel to be ahead after what he did to Vettel, but Kvyat was pretty impressive for a rookie last year.

 

Id say around 70% of races to Ricciardo and 60% of qualifying.



#32 Ricciardo2014

Ricciardo2014
  • Member

  • 967 posts
  • Joined: September 11

Posted 12 March 2015 - 03:22

I'd like to hear the logic, that made DK a better pick than his teammate who beat him definitively last year.


Yeah mate, tbh I would too.

I guess it's all down to Red Bull and the behind the scenes info they have.

No one thought Ricciardo was significantly better than JEV, but he shone in his first year with the top team.

Maybe there was something else about JEV that put them off ?

His driving wasn't too bad.

#33 HoldenRT

HoldenRT
  • Member

  • 6,773 posts
  • Joined: May 05

Posted 12 March 2015 - 03:23

It'd be very hard for anyone to walk in to Redbull and be in Kvyat's position.  Dan is settled in the team and is coming off a great season, and there's no reason why he can't be better this year or next.  It's always harder to go against a teammate that's already settled.  For example if Button joined Ferrari instead of Kimi, Alonso vs Button could be different compared to 2015 Alonso vs Button in a Honda or McLaren etc.

 

Joining the Redbull team, I think it'd be hard for any driver to go against Dan at the moment.

 

For Kvyat, really hard to say much about him at all based off of last year, but it's always hard to judge in those midfield cars.  So far in winter testing, he didn't impress much but it starts now with the racing.. so it'll be interesting to see.  Overrated or underrated is more about perception and expectation, so what do people expect?  Kvyat clearly has talent but will it show itself week in and week out, or only on certain weekends?

 

Inter team battles in F1 always make me curious because at certain points they can (sometimes) get in each others way, and it seems that beating each other is more important than the overall result.  They forget that they are also racing 20 other drivers, and that you can judge how good a driver is by how he races all of them, not just his teammate.

 

For example, is it better to have two drivers.. and during a season, one performs 6/10 for the season overall and the other 5/10.  Or is it better to have a driver perform 9/10 for a season and the teammate 8/10.  Which driver is better, the 6/10 driver who won the teammate battle or the 8/10 who lost?  Most people in F1 would say the 6/10.. "because he beat his teammate" and that's what a lot of these driver vs driver threads seem to focus on and obsess about for page after page after page after page................... but where is the context for how good or bad they are driving overall?

 

And if you try to discuss who the better drivers are overall (against all other 20), like Alonso vs Lewis vs Nico vs Riccairdo vs Bottas, it's offtopic.  Compared to other sports, F1 is strange in that respect.



#34 lbennie

lbennie
  • Member

  • 5,200 posts
  • Joined: May 09

Posted 12 March 2015 - 03:29

Everyone would expect Daniel to be ahead after what he did to Vettel, but Kvyat was pretty impressive for a rookie last year.

 

Id say around 70% of races to Ricciardo and 60% of qualifying.

 

Sounds about right imo.



#35 aramos

aramos
  • Member

  • 1,498 posts
  • Joined: December 14

Posted 12 March 2015 - 03:33

 

And if you try to discuss who the better drivers are overall (against all other 20), like Alonso vs Lewis vs Nico vs Riccairdo vs Bottas, it's offtopic.  Compared to other sports, F1 is strange in that respect.

 

Thats just this forum, in that they make the topic specifically team mate v team mate in the title.

 

Its always very difficult to compare drivers in different cars, the best you can do is 'gut instinct' and 'common team mates'. Which both have a fair amount of weight to them but they're no exact science.



#36 Brother Fox

Brother Fox
  • Member

  • 6,110 posts
  • Joined: January 01

Posted 12 March 2015 - 03:35

Thing is, who is ahead doesn't tell the whole story.

DR could win that tussle 20-0 but if DK was on his tail for all those races then it's a pretty bloody good season by a sophomore

#37 hollowstar

hollowstar
  • Member

  • 2,190 posts
  • Joined: July 13

Posted 12 March 2015 - 03:44

Dan will win this one  :smoking:



#38 aramos

aramos
  • Member

  • 1,498 posts
  • Joined: December 14

Posted 12 March 2015 - 03:51

Sounds about right imo.

It will be interesting to see Ricciardo progress. Because he looked very Alonso-esq last season. Great race pace and race craft and tended to pull a bunny out of his hat when he needed too. That he achieved such a complete seasons with his inexperience bodes well for the future.



#39 DrivenF1

DrivenF1
  • Member

  • 1,050 posts
  • Joined: March 11

Posted 12 March 2015 - 07:00

Ricciardo sounding very upbeat in general heading to Melbourne. Perhaps it's the home crowd, perhaps it's that he expects to have a car capable of jumping on the podium.

 

The better the car is, the better for Kvyat in the battle though as he won't get tangled up competing in the midfield which is risky. 



Advertisement

#40 SamH123

SamH123
  • Member

  • 2,942 posts
  • Joined: September 12

Posted 12 March 2015 - 08:20

I have $5 on Kvyat to win the WDC, not because I don't think Ricciardo will kill him but because this is a dangerous sport where people get injured, a dirty sport where cheaters tattletale on other cheaters and sometimes the 3rd-best driver ends up the official WDC, and because 12/1 is way too good odds for a Red Bull driver not named Mark Webber.

 

If you really mean 12/1 you've been robbed  :lol:

 

200/1 I might be interested.

 

Will be interesting to see how Kvyat does, could make Vergne being out the sport look ridiculous!



#41 sopa

sopa
  • Member

  • 12,230 posts
  • Joined: April 07

Posted 12 March 2015 - 09:45

Vettel was about as good, or slightly better, than Alonso, who is considered the benchmark. Ricciardo made mincemeat of him. Unless Kvyat is a Fangio he stands no chance.

 

Well, if Vettel is better than Alonso, it also means he would have been a Fangio. This means Ricciardo must have been a Fangio if not better to trash Vettel! No who would have thought that before 2014? If Ricciardo could rise from nowhere to be a Nuvolari, why not Kvyat? :D



#42 sopa

sopa
  • Member

  • 12,230 posts
  • Joined: April 07

Posted 12 March 2015 - 09:47

I've no doubt he will out perform Dan on occasion, but over the whole year Dan will beat him comfortably.
 

 

I also agree with you that it is highly likely Dan outperforms Dan, though there is a chance Dan could also match Dan!



#43 sergey1308

sergey1308
  • Member

  • 116 posts
  • Joined: October 13

Posted 12 March 2015 - 10:07

Of course, because of i'm a compatriot Daniil Kvyat, i hope he'll show a good pace this year. Meanwhile last year Daniel Ricciardo was faster then Sebastian Vettel and i suggest this year he'll clearly better Daniil.



#44 sergey1308

sergey1308
  • Member

  • 116 posts
  • Joined: October 13

Posted 12 March 2015 - 10:16

it all depends on how the rouble is doing. if mother russia is weak then kvyat will struggle. if it strong like bear then he will crush the australian.

 

it will be good to get some context to how ricciardo smashed vettel last season. seeing how well he and the car fair against a new talent will help shed light on just what happened last year.

Very interesting prediction about depending national currency rate and performance of the driver ;)



#45 Jimisgod

Jimisgod
  • Member

  • 4,954 posts
  • Joined: July 09

Posted 12 March 2015 - 13:24

Kvyat will become Ricciardo's Webber; able to pull out some better drives than Ricciardo about 2-4 times in the season, but ultimately slower.

I expect the head to head to be roughly 15 to 5, Ricciardo's way.

#46 STRFerrari4Ever

STRFerrari4Ever
  • Member

  • 12,137 posts
  • Joined: December 09

Posted 12 March 2015 - 14:25

Expecting Dan Ric to get this fairly comfortably, Kvyat will be closer at some tracks but overall Ricciardo will be more consistent and less error prone which will see him beat Daniil.

#47 DrivenF1

DrivenF1
  • Member

  • 1,050 posts
  • Joined: March 11

Posted 12 March 2015 - 15:34

What tracks do you think Kvyat will be closer at?

 

Dan seems to thrive at tracks like Bahrain, US and China (low downforce to fairly balanced tracks). Kvyat seemed to do well at Monza and Russia (low downforce). 

 

Kvyat's weakest tracks were Suzuka and Hungary last year, very technical tracks. Dan's only weak race that I can recall was Austria.



#48 HoldenRT

HoldenRT
  • Member

  • 6,773 posts
  • Joined: May 05

Posted 12 March 2015 - 16:01

Thats just this forum, in that they make the topic specifically team mate v team mate in the title.

 

Its always very difficult to compare drivers in different cars, the best you can do is 'gut instinct' and 'common team mates'. Which both have a fair amount of weight to them but they're no exact science.

 

I know that there is no exact science and that it's free to interpretation or speculation, people see different things or value different things, but it's still fun to discuss over a season.  IMO it's more important than beating your teammate.  You can beat your teammate but still be average.  Probably repeating myself, but F1's a strange sport.  In every other sport, it's just about being good or the best, comparing the best of each team.. not people on the same team.

 

Comparing the pace of the cars is always hard, and whenever drivers switch teams there's always surprises, people always need to reevaluate how they see the drivers, because it usually changes things.  So in that respect the teammate comparisons make sense.  Because it's the only 100% pure comparison.

 

But there are many universal things that make up a drivers skill or performance, separate from their teammate or their car.  For example, how many times they hit the wall in practice or in the race, how composed they are in quali during the clutch laps, how many times they lockup or run wide or if they are all over the place, how many clean overtakes they do vs the ones that fail, how assertive or "safe" they are in terms of risks, how their pace drops off towards the end of stints, and just in general.. if they are exceeding expecations in terms of the car or their own reputation.  Or if they fail to deliver.

 

The good drivers constantly surprise you, and are consistant, and the weaker drivers squander opportunities or are anonymous through a race or inherit good results to due bad luck from those infront.  Comparing pace from different cars is harder, but just trying to point out that there is more to being a driver, or judging a driver.. soley by the car's pace or their teammate.  Even when Alonso is in a weak car, he's still usually impressive.  Regardless of whether the car is best or not.

 

Really interested to see how Kvyat goes, but also a few of the other teams and drivers like Ferrari or McLaren.  There's been some interesting team switches and it's hard to predict what could happen.  But it makes it fun to watch in order to find out.



#49 Paincake

Paincake
  • Member

  • 1,068 posts
  • Joined: May 14

Posted 12 March 2015 - 16:33

Kvyat got his ass whooped by Vergne, and imo his chances won't be better against Ricciardo, assuming everythings about equal luck wise. Its almost like red Bull brought him in to be a second driver from the start. 



#50 DrivenF1

DrivenF1
  • Member

  • 1,050 posts
  • Joined: March 11

Posted 12 March 2015 - 18:11

Kvyat got his ass whooped by Vergne, and imo his chances won't be better against Ricciardo, assuming everythings about equal luck wise. Its almost like red Bull brought him in to be a second driver from the start. 

 

That's just not true.

 

Kvyat out-qualified Vergne 10-4 in dry conditions and was fairly similar on race head-to-head as discussed in the article in the OP. Kvyat's race craft could definitely use improving but Kvyat had a decent enough rookie year. I wouldn't write him off yet.