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Nico Hulkenberg vs. Sergio Perez - 2015


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#351 Disgrace

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Posted 29 November 2015 - 16:23

Perez deserves his victory over Hulkenberg this season. I nevertheless believe that Sergio is basically the new Fisichella. He's much better in the midfield than he will ever be in a top car or top team.



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#352 warp

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Posted 29 November 2015 - 23:08

He's much better in the midfield than he will ever be in a top car or top team.

 

The same could be said about Hulkenberg, to be honest.

These two are destined to be "best of the rest"

 

And Checo proved me wrong this season. I was expecting Hulk to win this season's battle but Checo simply did better in the long run.

 

 

Would it be a coincidence that Checo's second season at both FI and Sauber were better than his first?

Maybe he is slow to adapt and he needs more time to gel with the team/car?

That would explain why he did not performed as good in his 1st season at McLaren... but an argument against that is his podium in Bahrain 2014, his 3rd race in a Force India.


Edited by warp, 29 November 2015 - 23:09.


#353 Igorr

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Posted 29 November 2015 - 23:43

People keep talking about Perez's season in Mclaren in a way that he was responsible for losing it out, which i think is a bit unfair considering the conditions.

 

He definitely made some mistakes and had some off races, but with the terrible car they had you would expect them to take risks and fight for their position. He was close to Button throughout the whole season and finished 24 points shy at the end of the season.. 

 

I think if Martin Whitmarsh had stayed in the team, Checo would have kept his seat in Mclaren. People forget that Martin himself had made few phone calls to other teams and personally recommended Perez. On another note, him staying in Mclaren would have been a mistake anyway as they have been going downhill ever since while Checo is grabbing podiums and keeps impressing everyone with his driving in a midfield team.


Edited by Igorr, 29 November 2015 - 23:51.


#354 charly0418

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Posted 29 November 2015 - 23:49

Yeah getting fired from McLaren ended up being a blessing in disguise 



#355 warp

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Posted 30 November 2015 - 00:36

People keep talking about Perez's season in Mclaren in a way that he was responsible for losing it out, which i think is a bit unfair considering the conditions.

 

He definitely made some mistakes and had some off races, but with the terrible car they had you would expect them to take risks and fight for their position. He was close to Button throughout the whole season and finished 24 points shy at the end of the season.. 

 

I think if Martin Whitmarsh had stayed in the team, Checo would have kept his seat in Mclaren. People forget that Martin himself had made few phone calls to other teams and personally recommended Perez. On another note, him staying in Mclaren would have been a mistake anyway as they have been going downhill ever since while Checo is grabbing podiums and keeps impressing everyone with his driving in a midfield team.

 

Seen from that point of view, yeah. Much probably McLaren jumped at the gun expecting for "the next big thing" and it turned out to be not what they expected.

 

And absolutely, it was a blessing. Look at where is K-Mag is and where McLaren themselves are.



#356 JTSaika

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Posted 30 November 2015 - 05:46

As a fan of Perez due to his personality first, when i read he was going into McLaren, a few questions popped up into my head, one being how will this change him? 
Well...
Sauber 2012

McLaren 2013

Force India 2014


The pure arrogance that he shows in McLaren is something beyond perplexing to me. They say some teams just suit some drivers and that McLaren is hard on their drivers but during the interview (1 of many i add), he pushed the fact that McLaren is the best thing since world began and that the results should be delivered because it's McLaren, Like a god given right. I'm not sure who force fed this to him to spout every pr event but it's uncomfortable. Not to mention it only took him 20 seconds to completely destroy the fact that he was part of the Ferrari program which is one of the main solid reasons why he even ended up in Sauber. No one is that stupid on their own as to say such a thing. 
I find with him that he; much like how Rosberg ended this season, that he delivers when the pressure just isn't on him and that he's most comfortable. First half of the McLaren year after being fed all that must have been horrendous to work through and the second half he got a scolding telling him to be more aggressive, and that back fired too. Sauber and Force India knows how to work with Perez, McLaren just didn't. So i think he is probably destined to better in a mid field team because honestly i think they actually try harder with their drivers, and not with their brand and image. 

I think with Hulkenberg is that he has still yet to find that fit for him which is why he's team hopped for so many years. He's not as sensitive as Perez and he doesn't have any 'tricks' to abuse, he's just constantly fast if he has a car that can. Is he faster than Perez in a mid field car? Well, yes, but he can't abuse the car as much. Would he be faster say if both were in Ferrari? Oh for damn certain. Sometimes the progression of a driver needs to be nurtured first by the best suited team and then you can see from then on. After all, if Lotus didn't believe in Grosjean so much, he'd have gone long ago known only for the Belgian grand prix


Edited by JTSaika, 30 November 2015 - 08:30.


#357 charly0418

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Posted 30 November 2015 - 07:57

That Force India interview is pretty sad do, you could see it in him as well back here at home in Mexico, before the 2014 season started he looked devastated, like he thought the season was pointless and he was done in  Formula 1. I dont know where things changed, maybe the Bahrain podium, or the Canada crash, but at some point in those months someone put some sense back into him, both on and off the track. 

 

 

Here's a nice story of 2014 for you all. When 2014 testing was going on, it was a weekend during Bahrain testing, I remember Checo tested during Thursday and Friday, he had some pretty good times and even topped a session I think. Anyways, that Saturday me and my friends went to a pretty popular club here in Guadalajara called "Van Gogh" Checo actually used to go pretty often here, not anymore do. I remember clearly I was checking my cellphone every now and then to see how the time sheets were going for testing as Hulkenberg was testing at that moment, then a friend of mine told me to look next to our table and I couldnt believe it, Checo was already in Guadalajara and at the club lol, all this while Nico was driving the car in Bahrain. I was so pissed!!!! One of the reasons he was criticized in the Ferrari Academy and in McLaren is that he took too many visits back home in Mexico!!! Good news is that he's cutting all that, he's very careful now when he's in Guadalajara, and if he comes back with his family he actually goes to Texas with them now. He's finally putting his racing career as his priority and its good to see, also the Mexican GP opened his eyes even more, he probably now realized why his racing career is so important and how many fans are behind it. 

 

I dont know if he's gonna make the jump to a big team or not,  I think Force India (Aston Martin) are growing so either way he's in a good place, but it's good to see he's back on the map, it might be too late now since young guys like Verstappen are gonna get priority over him but this season he's gained the support of a lot of fans here in Mexico and even more companies (yeah, he's gonna give like 20 million in sponsorship now, geez). I also have another pretty crazy story about him during 2013 about him and Ron, but I'll tell that one once he gets better hopefully lol



#358 JTSaika

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Posted 30 November 2015 - 08:30

That Force India interview is pretty sad do, you could see it in him as well back here at home in Mexico, before the 2014 season started he looked devastated, like he thought the season was pointless and he was done in  Formula 1. I dont know where things changed, maybe the Bahrain podium, or the Canada crash, but at some point in those months someone put some sense back into him, both on and off the track. 

 

 

Here's a nice story of 2014 for you all. When 2014 testing was going on, it was a weekend during Bahrain testing, I remember Checo tested during Thursday and Friday, he had some pretty good times and even topped a session I think. Anyways, that Saturday me and my friends went to a pretty popular club here in Guadalajara called "Van Gogh" Checo actually used to go pretty often here, not anymore do. I remember clearly I was checking my cellphone every now and then to see how the time sheets were going for testing as Hulkenberg was testing at that moment, then a friend of mine told me to look next to our table and I couldnt believe it, Checo was already in Guadalajara and at the club lol, all this while Nico was driving the car in Bahrain. I was so pissed!!!! One of the reasons he was criticized in the Ferrari Academy and in McLaren is that he took too many visits back home in Mexico!!! Good news is that he's cutting all that, he's very careful now when he's in Guadalajara, and if he comes back with his family he actually goes to Texas with them now. He's finally putting his racing career as his priority and its good to see, also the Mexican GP opened his eyes even more, he probably now realized why his racing career is so important and how many fans are behind it. 

 

I dont know if he's gonna make the jump to a big team or not,  I think Force India (Aston Martin) are growing so either way he's in a good place, but it's good to see he's back on the map, it might be too late now since young guys like Verstappen are gonna get priority over him but this season he's gained the support of a lot of fans here in Mexico and even more companies (yeah, he's gonna give like 20 million in sponsorship now, geez). I also have another pretty crazy story about him during 2013 about him and Ron, but I'll tell that one once he gets better hopefully lol

I remember a casual interview he gave for sky during the testing this year if i recall, he looked so damn relaxed and at ease with everything that it was really interesting to see, especially when you consider he knew they'd be driving the 2014 car for the first half. Personally i couldn't begin to image where my head would be at if i was him during 2013. He scored 2 podiums for a team that had fallen pretty hard from grace in only 3 years of being there and then he gets his spot in the team that won the last race convincingly. At this point he's still in his early 20's. People talk about Vestappen like we're all accepting 17 as the point of debut and 25 is some kind of ancient age. He then comes into the season with high hopes and expectations and yet he's instead given a dog of a car that even Button couldn't drive well. He's promised a contract, dropped for a rookie overnight and left with nothing. I honestly never had any respect for Whitmarsh but clearly he saw something in Perez still. So i cannot blame him for seeing his family in Mexico so much at that point, i'd be pretty depressed too. Then he gets a lifeline in a Force India and look, he gets 2 more podiums, more than a guy hailed as one of the next best things. Again a reminder that he's only 25 leaving this season. 
At the end of it, seeing him at the Mexican GP was probably the highlight of the season for me, simply because he got the respect and admiration he deserved and maybe he felt wasn't there for me outside of his own family which if anything, was probably the one thing left that kept him going during and after McLaren. Even if he doesn't end up in another top team, i think he'll be proud of what he's accomplished. 

What was the story? 



#359 Peat

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Posted 30 November 2015 - 09:06

From what i gather from my sources in Force India, the team nicknamed Nico "Sulkenberg" after he came back from Le Mans. 

He certainly didn't seem to have his heart in it, the second half of the season, and would explain why Perez walked all over him. 



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#360 JTSaika

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Posted 30 November 2015 - 09:19

From what i gather from my sources in Force India, the team nicknamed Nico "Sulkenberg" after he came back from Le Mans. 

He certainly didn't seem to have his heart in it, the second half of the season, and would explain why Perez walked all over him. 

The guy wins LeMans and comes back like that? What sort of source is that? Tomato?. 



#361 Peat

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Posted 30 November 2015 - 10:10

The guy wins LeMans and comes back like that? 

 

Force India have done an incredible job considering their budget, but I can easily imagine feeling deflated coming back to that after working(and winning) with a factory LMP1 with it's almost infinite resources. 

 

 What sort of source is that? Tomato?. 

People are always fast to poo-poo 'sources' around here. The people you see on the tele there, they're just people. They live among us.


Edited by Peat, 30 November 2015 - 10:11.


#362 Jejking

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Posted 30 November 2015 - 10:46

Force India have done an incredible job considering their budget, but I can easily imagine feeling deflated coming back to that after working(and winning) with a factory LMP1 with it's almost infinite resources. 

 

People are always fast to poo-poo 'sources' around here. The people you see on the tele there, they're just people. They live among us.

That really is no answer and you know that. A story of a driver sulking to his team would have easily leaked and no mention of that was ever made. Sky etc would have surely picked it up. Explain how that comes please.



#363 ch103

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Posted 30 November 2015 - 13:12

The Force India cars typically get more competitive as the season progresses because due to their limited resources, their cars are natural evolutions (or extensions) of the predecessor.  Once the big teams are certain of their standings in the WCC, they shift their development resources to next years car, which for them may be a radically new concept instead of continuing the development of their current car.  For this reason, IMO, is why we see Force India get strongers in the final few races each season.



#364 Jon83

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Posted 30 November 2015 - 13:19

From what i gather from my sources in Force India, the team nicknamed Nico "Sulkenberg" after he came back from Le Mans. 

He certainly didn't seem to have his heart in it, the second half of the season, and would explain why Perez walked all over him. 

 

He's had plenty of bad luck since then too. For sure he has made some mistakes but the poor results weren't all down to him.

 

Credit to Perez - he's been excellent this season and even without Hulk's poor form / bad luck, the result stands.

 

Next season could be very rewarding for this team if they get the car right (I know that is stating the obvious btw)
 



#365 Jon83

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Posted 30 November 2015 - 13:20

The Force India cars typically get more competitive as the season progresses because due to their limited resources, their cars are natural evolutions (or extensions) of the predecessor.  Once the big teams are certain of their standings in the WCC, they shift their development resources to next years car, which for them may be a radically new concept instead of continuing the development of their current car.  For this reason, IMO, is why we see Force India get strongers in the final few races each season.

 

In the past has it not been that they started well and tailed off in the second half of the season?

 

This was the only season I remember them having such a massive upgrade. I could be mistaken.



#366 chipmcdonald

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Posted 30 November 2015 - 16:55

I think Perez is underrated.  People seem to look over, or not notice, that he's consistently best on his tires of the field.  Meanwhile it's Hulkenberg that has failed to "blow away" his team mate, much like Bottas hasn't "blown away" Massa.  Perez has challenged above his fighting weight a number of times, and seems to be more crafty during the race and ends up in favorable circumstances because of it. 

 

Verstappen has done what people act like Hulkenberg and Bottas should have done by now. 



#367 SophieB

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Posted 30 November 2015 - 16:58

I was pretty harsh about him when Perez got the sack from McLaren but I'm very pleased to see he's done way better than I figured he would. Can't have been an easy thing to go from thinking you were walking into a team that had a chance of delivering you a shot at the WDC to being shown the door only one season later and having it made pretty clear in the press that it was because you'd been deemed not good enough. But it looks like he's dealt with it all with courage and grace, knuckling back down and proving McLaren (and chumps like me) wrong. It was touching to see his obvious joy and pride in being able to take part in a home GP and the massive crowds giving him a heroes welcome were a fitting salute back to that, and to his season of renewed skill and determination.

Edit: I don't think I'm really qualified to comment on Hulk, having not really paid enough attention to all races to give a properly informed view. My casual impression is that he did seem to tail off. I hope it's not the case, as overall I do think he has done enough to have earned at least a chance at top drive.

#368 Gyan

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Posted 30 November 2015 - 17:31

Hulkenberg was bad this season IMO. He showed no progression from last season, in fact doing the opposite and regressing, while Perez grew in confidence and beat him. Honestly don't see what Hulkenberg thinks he can achieve with another season in F1 in 2016. He should have jumped ship to WEC, especially if he was going to get frustrated and lose out on points and places after Le Mans in F1. I mean, say he does the same thing in 2017 in F1, where does he go from there then? Never been one to make decent career decisions, Nico.

 

Maybe I'll have egg on my face come next season, but if it means Hulkenberg doing well, I don't care. Maybe he should go see the same psychologist that Grosjean went to, because the problems seem in his head not in his talent. He's been crumbling whenever he was in for a strong points haul this season.



#369 SonJR

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Posted 30 November 2015 - 21:20

One of the most interesting intra-team battles. Both these guys imho are very talented, with different (but, fortunately for the team, complementary) strengths.

 

I fear, however, it might be too late for both of them to make the leap to a top-tier team, with younger hot prospects being already there or on their way up. Perhaps Sergio could still make a jump though, if he were to transfer to a team like Williams (where the frankly quite uncommon mix of talent + the budget he brings could help him clinch a seat) and they build a rocket.



#370 Jonnycraig37

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Posted 30 November 2015 - 21:37

People keep talking about Perez's season in Mclaren in a way that he was responsible for losing it out, which i think is a bit unfair considering the conditions.

He definitely made some mistakes and had some off races, but with the terrible car they had you would expect them to take risks and fight for their position. He was close to Button throughout the whole season and finished 24 points shy at the end of the season..

I think if Martin Whitmarsh had stayed in the team, Checo would have kept his seat in Mclaren. People forget that Martin himself had made few phone calls to other teams and personally recommended Perez. On another note, him staying in Mclaren would have been a mistake anyway as they have been going downhill ever since while Checo is grabbing podiums and keeps impressing everyone with his driving in a midfield team.


Perez's big mistake at McLaren was daring to challenge Button a bit too closely for his liking. Button can politic as well as anyone.

#371 Jon83

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Posted 04 December 2015 - 12:37

One of the most interesting intra-team battles. Both these guys imho are very talented, with different (but, fortunately for the team, complementary) strengths.

 

I fear, however, it might be too late for both of them to make the leap to a top-tier team, with younger hot prospects being already there or on their way up. Perhaps Sergio could still make a jump though, if he were to transfer to a team like Williams (where the frankly quite uncommon mix of talent + the budget he brings could help him clinch a seat) and they build a rocket.

 

I wouldn't rule either out just yet.

 

People are talking about Bottas going to Ferrari or Mercedes soon. If he is good enough to be even mentioned in relation to seats like that, these two should be right up there too.



#372 Group B

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Posted 04 December 2015 - 12:46

I think Perez is underrated.  People seem to look over, or not notice, that he's consistently best on his tires of the field.  Meanwhile it's Hulkenberg that has failed to "blow away" his team mate, much like Bottas hasn't "blown away" Massa.  Perez has challenged above his fighting weight a number of times, and seems to be more crafty during the race and ends up in favorable circumstances because of it. 

 

Yes, Perez showed signs of serious raw speed back at McLaren and has apparently devoloped on that this season. NH may not have been at his best, but I think it's mostly a case of credit to Perez.



#373 DaddyCool

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Posted 04 December 2015 - 14:07

Perez was very impressive this season, it's not a coincidence that he is the best of the rest after the big teams.

 

Let's not forget however, that Hülk had a formation lap engine failure in Spa, where Force India was very competitive, so the points difference would be a bit smaller.

 

It is amazing what this team has achieved with a good engineering crew and two skilled pilots considering their testing and financial woes. I hope the Aston Martin deal helps these guys to become regular podium challengers.



#374 Group B

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Posted 04 December 2015 - 14:21

Yep, I very much rate both of them, so would like to see some decent machinery come their way.



#375 sopa

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Posted 09 December 2015 - 13:34

I quite like this driver pairing. A youthful vibe and pretty talented too.

 

Before 2014 I thought Hulkenberg should have an edge at least in terms of consistency, but now I have to say overall they are pretty much in the same ballpark talent-wise. It stands 1:1 now as far as season battles go, and 2016 can go either way depending on who can hit a purple patch of form and avoid incidents. Because Perez largely lost 2014 due to incidents and Hulkenberg lost 2015 in Russia and USA, where he crashed out and Perez scored big points.

 

It will be hard for either to get into a top team. I suspect they would be behind the Verstappen, Kvyat, Bottas gang of drivers whenever seats open up in top teams. But they are still pretty good drivers.:)


Edited by sopa, 09 December 2015 - 13:35.